I'm thinking about a new bow without an elevated rest. I'm trying to decide between a recurve or longbow. At my draw, my Jag is #54. Does that equal a #54 longbow or will a longbow feel lighter/heavier? Also, if I get a quality #50 recurve or longbow, I assume it'll shoot faster than my #54 Jag helping its punch.
For funzies, here is my Jag speed:
oMeasured Speeds: 157 fps w/529 gr. Arrow, 174 fps w/409 gr. Arrow at 27" draw.
•Extrapolated Speed: 164 fps w/549 gr. Arrow at 28" draw.
Get either one a good quality 3 piece l/b is my preference.
Not a lot of difference between a R/D hybrid longbow and a recurve as far as speed is concerned. I went from a Pittsley Predator recurve to a JK Traditions Kanati hybrid and only lost 3 FPS! The Kanati was one pound heavier in draw weight than the Predator. Still, not much difference in performance at all.
According to testing done by Blackey Schwartz(Traditional Bowhunter Mag.) :readit: , the Centaur Carbon Elite hybrid LB shot only 3 FPS slower than the ultra high performance Pittsley Predator recurve, using identical testing parameters. So there ya go.
With either one, if you put the arrow where it belongs with a sharp broadhead, you'll be just fine.
:archer2:
Only difference I could add is some of us knucle-draggers seem to only shoot one or the other style bow well.
I love thoese small bows... like the Hoots recurve! Lighet weight. Smooth, no pinch...incredible!
Can't hit a blasted thing with a light-weight mass bow unless I have some riser mass for some reason. Bad shooting form perhaps, but nothing I can figure out so I've saddly just resolved I shoot recruve heavier weight risers (not heavy draw!!!)better and consistently where otherwise, NOT. :(
Thank Goodness for the bowyers who now offer longbow r/d limbs for their recurve risers! :)
have an all bamboo long bow,my friends all shot recurves mine weighs alot less. carrying it all day makes a difference but when it comes to making the shot use what you shoot best.
50 pounds feels like 50 pounds, regardless of LB or recurve. Some bows stack differently in the draw but the end draw weight is what it is.
Many of the hybrid longbows will out perform recurves in speed.
I shoot a 50 pound Herwaybow TD longbow, a 510 grain arrow will shoot 190 fps. I have a 55 pound wapiti TD recurve that shoots the same arrow 175 fps...
I wouldn't worry about speed. Choose the one you like to shoot the most and the one you shoot the best. Any recurve or longbow in the 50+ # range has plenty of punch for North Americn game.
QuoteOriginally posted by wapiti1997:
50 pounds feels like 50 pounds, regardless of LB or recurve. Some bows stack differently in the draw but the end draw weight is what it is.
Many of the hybrid longbows will out perform recurves in speed.
I respectively disagree on your statement that a 50# bow feels like a 50# bow regardless of design.
I have to admit that until you have had the opportunity to shoot a high quality recurve limb with a dip in the DFC chart, you probably wouldn't notice much difference.....
But..... once you have drawn one and feel what almost seems to be a let-off in weight through the draw cycle, you would be amazed. I have some RC bows out there that run 50-55#'s that you would swear are only 45-50# without putting them on a scale....
Typically there is a trade off between smoothness and performance, but with these modern composites we have available now, if the time is taken to balance the limbs properly, you really don't loose a lot of performance either.
food for thought.... Kirk
50# is 50#. Differences might be finger pinch +/or stack on shorter bows. My longer draw appreciates LB's (66"-70") for the past 35 years. Might try a hybrid which has best qualities of both?
50# is 50#, I agree with straitera that finger pinch and stacking are the only differences in "feel". I'm not aware of any limb material or design that allows a traditional bow to drop weight at a given longer draw length.
A bow might feel different from another bow as it is drawn but once you get to the peak holding weight, it is what it is, 50# is 50#. ;)
50 is 50 at anchor, but there is a world of difference on the trip there... limb design and bow length make a difference with these old shoulders...
For me a bow with top quality bamboo or yew limbs just seems to draw a little nicer. If I have one of those choices in a custom bow I would always be willing to pay extra.
Peak weight is the same from bow to bow. How you get there (the force draw curve) can be markedly different.
DDave
OK you "50# is 50#" die hard's. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: ...
You guys are missing the point here....lets put it this way.... you got a 50# box of nails on a table. push the box to arms length in the middle of the table and bend slightly at the waist and try to pick the box up and bring it to your chest.
now take the same 50 pound box, and slide it to the edge of the table right next to your belt line and pick it up to the same location at your your chest.
after about 5 reps, you wont be able to lift it at arms length any more.... IF you could even lift it the first time.... it's called leverage guys... yup... It's same 50 pounds alright but it sure don't feel like it....
same theory applies to using a bar or a pole for a lever instead of dead lifting something.
what do you think those hooks on the end of a recurve are?.... they are lever's. ;) AND if they make it easier to get to full draw, you can hold that same 50 pounds a lot longer...
I can't believe i didn't get a response on this one.
no takers huh?
I'll bite... Do they make it easier to get to full draw?
QuoteOriginally posted by Kirkll:
OK you "50# is 50#" die hard's. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: ...
You guys are missing the point here....lets put it this way.... you got a 50# box of nails on a table. push the box to arms length in the middle of the table and bend slightly at the waist and try to pick the box up and bring it to your chest.
now take the same 50 pound box, and slide it to the edge of the table right next to your belt line and pick it up to the same location at your your chest.
after about 5 reps, you wont be able to lift it at arms length any more.... IF you could even lift it the first time.... it's called leverage guys... yup... It's same 50 pounds alright but it sure don't feel like it....
same theory applies to using a bar or a pole for a lever instead of dead lifting something.
what do you think those hooks on the end of a recurve are?.... they are lever's. ;) AND if they make it easier to get to full draw, you can hold that same 50 pounds a lot longer...
It can draw more or less smoothly and store different amounts of energy, but the draw weight feels the same at anchor. The length of time that you can hold at anchor should not be significantly changed unless you shoot a very large number of arrows. Your analogy is a poor one, as it implies a different drawing motion.
64" R/D longbows are about as fast as it gets these days. The good ones are fast smooth and quiet, and frankly I cannot tell the difference anymore between a top recurve and a top R/D.
Not sure how my Twotrack longwalker longbow compares to a recurve but I can say it is about 53 pounds at my 30 inch draw ( 47 @ 28 ) 64 inches long - mild R/D. I shoot a 515 grain arrows and jsut for fun I shot through the chrony at 12 yards ( do not recommend doing this however). I registered a consistant 182.6 FPS. THe bow is dead quiet as well.
I can say at about 15yards I blew through the lungs (fletches hung up on opposite side)of a 250 pound hog with a bit of a shield.
My buddy who shoots the same arrow and broadhead as I do shoots a 53 pound blacktail recurve ( 62 inches I thnk). I do not know his speed, but he blew through a hog at 15 yards also. Not really apples to apples, just some data I guess.
Bob.
Hmmmm... 50# is 50# at anchor regardless of recurve or longbow it still feels the same. The draw force curve may feel different but the end result is what it is.
I have both recurves and longbows, I prefer the longbows...
In my opinion, limb material makes no difference in a glass laminated bow as it is the glass thats really doing the work. What does make a huge difference in feel, draw, speed etc. is how the bow was designed and crafted regardless of materials used. Knowing how to best utilize the materials one is working with to acheive the results that the buyer wants is what a master bowyer does. The bowyer makes the bow perform how they have designed to be.
The mechanics of the recurve vs. longbow have zero to do with why I prefer recurves. I just like the looks of the curved limb tips and mass in the riser.
A friend told me he is now making longbow limbs for his recurve riser. Guess that solves the "mass in the riser" issue for me but I still can't go without the curves. I won't even try em.
I guarantee there is a difference in the PERCEPTION of the draw weight between various bows, even where the holding weight is identical, but that final weight is the same regardless of the archer's perception, as stated by Patrick Kelly (PDK). A bow with relatively long limbs, a weight versus draw length curve that is linear, and a higher initial draw weight that increases gradually will usually have a lighter perceived feel than other bows.
Allan
Kirk, I get your analogy, love your thoughts on design, and can't wait to talk to you and shoot one of your bows at Baltimore. ;)
Could be titled "Enjoyable vs. More Enjoyable"
The differences in performance can be great either way and depends on the design. Many times the difference in performance is negligible.
What is more enjoyable to you personally is the bottom line. No one can tell you which is the best choice. A great choice for one may be an extremely poor choice for another.
Hey Doc Nock: You described me to a T! I shoot the Bob Lee longbow limbs with their Recurve risers, they are sweet shooters and as quiet as a mouse. I've got a couple of my Recurve risers down there right now, am having longbow limbs fitted & built. I also like the extra mass and bit of weight as you do. They have a recurve riser with long bow limbs on their bow to go page right now. Frank M if your looking for a new bow, you would do yourself a favor to at least give JJ at Lee bows a call & converse! DK.
All good info. Thanks!