Trad Gang

I'm not sre how to word this... But we as a family here need our "mothers". (admins)

I just saw the new post by Terry on the bow classifieds.

http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=043642

This next statement is absolutely not targeted at the admins here, but if the general public's police department stopped doing their job after a few... well A LOT of rotten apples complained about their laws... well... society would go to hell!

100 post rule?... The best thing that ever happened to the bow classifieds...

Admins "policing" the classifieds?... Absolutely 180º from useless. The most needed thing in my opinion.

People constantly complaining about the admins restrictions on Tradgang?.... You know where the door is fellas, we are a family here. And the "mothers" of our family have VOLUNTARILY taken it upon theirselves to make Tradgang a safe and "on track" place for the thousands of "children" that are members here. SHOW SOME RESPECT!

[Off my soapbox]

I speak for 99% of Tradgang here when I say... "Thank You Admins!!!!!!" We need your guidance to make Tradgang... well... Tradgang!

Much appreciated.
Matt

I hope cooler heads will prevail.  

I think the silent majority would rather have the rules. It is what keeps this site going forward in a positive manner. Allowing the classifieds to "Run amuck" would be a dishonor to the site in which you, and every one of it's members, have created...A great place to come to getaway from everything in daily life and be with a bunch of like minded folks.

Well worded.

I wish I had done this good at my attempt at writing out my thoughts that I've already posted on the other similar thread.

Well said...... Thank you!

   :archer:

PS: My original post;

Hey "T"...

You know I love this place and am all about keeping it a family safe place.

we (The Tradgang family) have to get out of the (this is all about me mode of thinking) and start putting our family good ahead of ourselves.

The rules are for the good of the whole.

So what if one or more rules creates a momentary problem for a couple people. (me included)

We can and will get over it if it means tradgang is the better for all of us.

God bless,Mudd

PS: I do hope that you know how very much we appreciate all that you and the moderators do to keep this site what it is, The very best out here!

I do not normally speak out but I must dissagree with this new rule.

X6  !!

  :clapper:

TG did not come this far by accident...and will survive... and grow because of careful and thoughtful oversight.   Period.    

I will ALWAYS be supportive regardless of how I may feel about any issue at any time.

How can it be any other way?

I'd like to see the safeguards stay in place, but, unlike the police department, the moderators/administrators here don't do tradgang for a living.  I can only imagine the frustration.


 :dunno:

Didn't like the rule at first, but now I see that it is needed. Do feel safer buying from trad-gang classifieds than any other site. Trad-gang is the first site I go to when I check computer each day, it is like a second home.

When one or more "children" of a family mis-behave, complains about the house rules, crosses the line... What do the people running the household do??!??

Punish the house as a whole...

It is a much needed re-action, to a sub-par action.

Terry & Company are re-acting in a much needed fashion. If you were constantly under scruntiny about something that you knew you were doing to perfection... what would you do?

The current status of the classifieds is 100% justified. Maybe the "whiners" will learn something from all this.

Wanna sell a bow "whiners"?? Get more involved in Tradgang and get to 100 posts... Maybe a few of the people complaining about the 100 post rule will get burned from the absence of Admin Involvement in the bow classifieds... That'll change their tune.

Terry & Company - I would do the same thing under the circumstances. Hopefully this isn't permanent. Stay the course....

I'm not sure if this has been a long time coming, or due to just one or two newer incidents, but i can only imagine some of the nonsense that our admin and mods have been subjected to.

Do i agree with them leaving the asylum to the lunatics? No.

Do i blame them? No.

All is know is that i have learned a lot, made some amazing friends, and swapped some great trad gear here. And i really don't want to see it become less than the great place it is.

Terry,
I wish to express my thanks, and appreciation for all the hard work you do.
I realize that it is hard to do the job that you do, and there is little thanks.
Read the foregoing, and know that your efforts on our behalf are not taken lightly, and I for one will miss your moderation.
What ever your decision, rest assured that I for one will honor it, and back you and the rest of the mods, in any and all ways possible.
Thanks for all that you do.
Pepper

As you can see I am far from having 100 posts.  I have however purchased a bow, two quivers and some arrows through Tradgang.  I am sorry to hear about the new rule, but I do understand the frustration that must be felt by our administrators.  Just wanted you guys to know not all newbies are whiners and some are just enjoying a new found enjoyment in a great sport!

Matt

I agree 100%

The rules are set by the guy who owns the ball. Live with it. There is no reason for discusion.

I am new here but just want to say I have never been to a better classified section, I appreciate the hard work that is done and hope things here do not take a turn for worse,

Scott...

It is a sad day for Trad Gang. However, I do, to some extent, understand the level of frustration and could see this happening some time back. Perhaps, one day, the gate keepers will return. Until that happens, any trading, buying or selling that I do will only be with those that I know and have already established a track record on honesty, integrity and ethics.

Danny

I'd like to see the rules remain as they were. I appreciate the hard work it must take to keep this place going smoothly.
Lets also keep it a place where we all can express our opinions, whatever they may be, in the course of a discussion. Thats how we learn form one another.

Joshua

Although I am new to this forum, I am not new to forums in general. I have never seen a friendlier, accepting, helpful,  and giving forum or a nicer more trustworthly and plain aol good people than TG is. I think that is a combo of all the Good members and the awesome Nods that keep out the trash. Personally I think the 100 post for all classifieds is a great idea (and I don't even have 100 posts yet) and I think the only reason someone would be against it us if they wanted to just show up and sell things,  but as we've seen that's how the trash gets in.

As for standing up for a low life like the afore mentioned scammer, maybe those people aren't oposed to actions like that, but for the majority of hard working, honest, dependable members here, it wont be tolerated.

The close knit brotherhood that Trad Gang exemplifies is not possible without the mods working their tails off and everyone sticking together.

Mods, please don't let the whining of few end up ruining our great site you've all worked so hard for. Im sure the grateful masses on here would feel the same

All this is JMHO, YMMV

Fin

Dead nuts straight on here brother! You got a bitch about how it's run.., hit the door! This is one of the strong suits about TG...the tireless policing for our best interests. I've been called on infractions myself & hold no animosity! Right is right & those in the right should have no complaints about how Terry wants to do business.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ric O'Shay:
It is a sad day for Trad Gang. However, I do, to some extent, understand the level of frustration and could see this happening some time back. Perhaps, one day, the gate keepers will return. Until that happens, any trading, buying or selling that I do will only be with those that I know and have already established a track record on honesty, integrity and ethics.

Danny

Danny, I feel the same way. The Mods here are great. And, unlike other sites, TradGang was a safe place to buy, sell or trade. Too bad that some bad apples spoiled the basket. TradGang is where I have met some of the most honest and caring people in the world.

Matt

Terry;; Thank you for all your hard work. Don't let a few spoil a very good thing,, I will do my part and not deal with anyone with no track record, I believe if you give up it will be the beginning of the end!

Ditto Ric O'Shay's post. Exactly how I feel about this matter.

I'M WITH DANNY;  IMHO, THE SITE IS LESSENED WITHOUT THE MODS.  THE RULES WERE NEEDED; WITHOUT THEM, I'LL NOT BUY FROM UNKNOWNS NOW.  I DOUBT IF MANY WILL.  SOUROWL

***I also posted this on the other thread that was started tonight in reaction the the Ollis deal.
_________________________

What I do not understand about what happened on the the other thread is this.

For one- I thought we (most) all were in agreement about the problem of an unscrupulous character (the infamous Ollis) who had infiltrated the site and was not behaving like he should here. Let alone like a grown Man in general.

So, a few of us that had a problem (and I might say had $$ on the table with him also) with this guy- worked hard as a team, to remedy the problem. We tracked him down, put heat on him and notified others (mods, authorities and other members) who were about to be scammed also.

This was done to protect our own interest-sure, but was also done to protect the group at large. I can tell you there were a # of members here that were in contact behind the scenes to nail this guy. I know I personally helped (2) guys from sending him $200 each for wool clothing items.

So- and this is my main point that I do not understand. Just when We were successful in stopping the guy and almost everyone has or hopefully will soon be squared away. Maybe financially, but we still came out a little wounded.  

*** so what happens next- the wagons get circled in and we start taking shots. And so they start shooting the messenger(s).

I have some knowledge that even one of the main messengers about this Guy even took a shot recently from one of the moderators on this site. Crazy. I thought we were doing this to try and protect ourselves and other members.

Well, if I knew that was going to be the case, maybe I just would have protected my own interests and just stayed on the sidelines and only looked out for my own interests. You can bet if I ever run into this again ( and I hope I never do)- that is what I will strongly think of doing. Even though it is not in my nature to not try and help someone else.

I have bought and sold things here for a while and I have always treated people just like I would want to be treated. And have been treated that way in kind. I have dealt with many upstanding gentlemen, and hope to do so in the future.

But I have to say this thing has opened my eyes a bit -in more ways than one.

Okay - I am really new here......but I spend too much time in different forums to have a sense that this is a special place.  Moderators jobs are usually thankless, but so needed to keep the site safe and someplace that everyone can use.  My favorite sites are heavily moderated, not so much for content - but for attitude and integrity.  I think that is what is being attempted here.

For me, I'll watch and learn and try to fit in over time.  Thanks to the  Admins and Moderators for caring enough to put up with the frustrations.

I am guilty of being silent on this. All to often it is the whiners that make the most noise;
I have always apreciated the rules that kept this site. I think we take the moderators for granted, there is a lot of work that goes into this site.
That being said I think the 100 post rule was a great idea. I would even make it 100 posts of ten words or more and not count posts that say "ttt" or just the word "ditto"

Why don't we just get together and not buy anything from someone with under 100 posts. We really don't need the mods to do that. We could just spread the word. I think it is a great policy. I for one would never buy anything from someone with no track record. I don't need the mods to do that.

You guys have nothing more than my utmost respect; I have been an admin on a discussion board site before and let me tell you it's no easy task, especially when the banhammer starts falling. It takes a lot of time and effort behind the scenes to keep a site running right and I have seen guys take pot-shots at us (back then but people don't change much) under the supposition of "sticking it to the man" and "that's not fair" and even "this is a violation of free speech". Don't let them drag you down, being a member and posting to a site is a lot like driving a car, it's not a right it's a privilege and as such can be taken away, just ask anyone who has gotten a DUI.

Whatever you guys decide to do is up to you, I will support you 100% (funny how that respect thing works, eh?   :)    ) but if you bring back the 100 post rule I think it would be in the best interest of the gang, it goes a long way in keeping the dirtbag scammers out. I can't tell you how happy I was when I stumbled across this site, finally a place on the 'net where there were honest people with integrity much like the people I would meet and know when I used to spend the summers with my grandparents in Northern Alabama, it was like a breath of fresh air.

Sorry about the wall of text - you guys have my support in whatever you do, it's your site and decision. Just don't let the haters drag you down, because as the picture shows, it's all they do   :)  

   (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mmBw3uzPnJI/S_5HXJI5njI/AAAAAAABSg8/8lP8JftxY9E/s1600/Haters_Gonna_Hate_24.jpg)

If there's anything I can do to help you guys out just holler     :)  

--Johnny

Hopefully the testimonials in these threads as to how great a site Terry and the boys are running will give them cause to reconsider not letting go of the reins.  This is the most well run site I've ever been a member of and, like all of you.....I'd hate to see that change, and their years of hard work deteriorate.  

If for some reason this is the new world order here at TG, then every one of us needs to play volunteer moderator to keep the classifieds what they were intended to be. I will still buy/sell actively through these pages as I believe we have folks of the highest ethics as the norm, and one bad apple doesn't shake my confidence in this population as a whole.

It's a condition of use....I lost all of my previous post count when the site was changed. (Check out member number vs thread count) I can't do anything about it.  It just happened with the change.  I regret it but I accept it as such.  I just won't sell anything for a while...

Rob and Rick have said my views. We'll have to police ourselves. We have to look out for each other. I will do business still on the classifieds but will a lot more scrupulous as to who and will do more research on a person before I do it. If enough folks volunteer then maybe we can take some pressure off the rest and try and give a little back to Terry and the Mods. Shameful that folks gets something for nothing and still complain.

I also hope the Mods do take hold of the reigns again on the classifieds.  However, if they choose not too, you can take a simple measure to help protect yourself.  Do a search on the name of the person you are dealing with and you can probably get a good idea about their character and if they only use this site for buying/selling.

We don't need our mommies.  If that is how you look at admin no wonder they said to heck with it.  I don't know what happened to prevoke Terry's ire, nothing I have read on site shows an indication, I assume some PMs we are not piviy to.  None the less, admin is not here to change your diaper or kiss your finger when it gets cut.  Grow up.  We are suppose to be adults.  If you sell something, send it.  If you buy something, pay for it.  If you offend someone, apollogize.  If someone offends you, get over it.  Do it all promptly and in an adult fashion.  Give admin a break.

Well said Al.

I am another who greatly supports the efforts made by Terry Green and the other moderators to develop this site into what it is today. I would likely be considered to be one of the "silent majority" types who does more listening and looking than saying a lot. Every segment of society requires rules to operate and an overseer of the rules to make sure the rules are followed. That good advice is given along the way to those on the "edge" of breaking the rules, is a bonus.

When our Community overseers surrender this needed mentoring,we take a step backward in the proper evolution of a Community.

Terry, and Administrators, we need your involvement and guidance. The rule " breakers" and those that disagree will pay for their own misdeeds in the future. Experience teaches that if one breaks the rules on a site such as this, they have broken other rules (laws) elsewhere which will undoubtedly lead to their demise. I, for one and, as you see by many others, appreciate your efforts and certainly understand your frustration. Thank you!

I like the 100 post rule.
It kind of gives you an idea of the person your dealing with.
Never been burnt on this site and always make new friends with any sale/purchase.  :thumbsup:

If the 100 post count rule works well for the tradbow classifieds, then it should work equally well for all of the other classifieds.

I liked the 100 post before selling in the classifieds and I know it takes much for the Mods to keep a check on things but we can do our homework as well here...I think as a team we all can ask around about new members and if something smells fishy then don't take a bite....I try to do my homework in every deal and even check other sites for alias names etc.We can all monitor our dealings with others and be our own police and take a bite out of "slime" I meant crime...I only had 100% good trades and sales here and appreciate every effort that the Mods/Admin. take....We are a "TradGang" and like most Gangs we watch the others back...If you ever want to make a deal with me I will more then likely give you the better end of the deal and add some extra strings,bow wax or an arrowhead in my dealings...I don't take advantage of the trade..Heck I have been known to give two bows to sweeten a deal...Terry when I first came here I was a little confused but learned the rules and obey them and that's why we have them so things don't get out of hand...Thank all who have kept us safe in the past...God Bless, Keefer's <")))><

I agree, if the admin. stop policeing the site it will invite the bad apples in. Since i've joined Trad Gang. i have never had a bad deal or gotten ripped off, The rules are in place for a reason, Now i wonder if a feedback section should be in place so we as honest members can monitor those bad deal apples. Thanks admin for all you do.

Dale.

I've never understood the attitude of members of any forum thinking owners/administrators have a duty to provide a monitered classified section and be responsible for it.

Al,

You're right, we don't need our police departments, government, or our military either... Those other countries and the bad people of society should just behave like adults... Well a small minority don't behave, so you're wrong... we do need them.

Get burned once or twice b/c Admins have stopped working the classifieds... Then come talk.

No, No...It is mentalities like you just described that has pushed Terry & Company over the edge. "We don't need them"...?!

Real grateful attitude you got there. 99% of members here "Pay when they buy, apologize when they offend, & send items they sell..." that is because the admins high standards they hold for all of us. Remove that, and the garbage will come flocking in numbers.

I'm not informed on what this is about, but I sense their must be some built up frustration regarding something.

I am all for the rules and guidelines, and have nothing but good things to say about the admins.  Any dealings I've had with them, they have been patient and cordial.  I think they all do a great job, and this site is literally an oasis on the internet.  This is the only place I feel 100% comfortable dealing with people, and have yet to regret it.

I hope whatever is going on can be worked out in time, and if people don't like the rules there are plenty of other places to go.  The admins care and involvment and rule enforcing assists greatly in making this site what it is, and would hate to see these admins discouraged because of a few rotten apples.

Keep up the good work guys, you guys are the captains of the tradgang ship.

I like the 100 post rule for the same reasons already stated.  This site has always been a great source of info and good people and I hope it stays that way.

If you have many rules then it takes lots of monitoring. The rules were put in place because of past problems. I'm not sure how many admins there are on this site, but it appears the workload became too much and complaints were too many.

My thanks go out to the admins for their dedication and hard efforts to keep this place the way it was when I joined up.

Maybe the admins need some help so their job isn't too burdensome. I am on the site alot just to read and learn and have had several transactions on the site without getting burned or burning anyone. I like posting back and forth with like minded people. I don't have the time it takes to be a good moderator. Maybe some of you do and you could PM Terry to offer assistance if he were so inclined.


I do think a sticky at the top of the classifieds for POSITIVE transactions might be a way to go. If you buy from that section, then post about the seller and visa versa.

Posting something negative about someone that is unproven and turns out to be untrue could place Tradgang in a liability position. That is a burden this site and the admins do not need.

I'll still buy from the classifieds. When the right southpaw bow appears that I can't resisit I'll do my homework before committing.

Well the barn doors are open.  I just went to the bow classifieds and we already have a brand new member listing a bow.

Sad day on TradGang.  It's going to hit the fan.

Mike

Without moderators this will not be the same site. Their job is exhaustive it is not just the classifieds as some said    Why not just get together and agree not to buy from someone with less than 100 posts. That won't work because it is a only a part of what monitors do. They also keep out compound bow threads, other types of hunting, screening new apps. Personally posting personal avatars, preventing people posting whatever they please so that we have a nice trad bow site, and all voluntary. Not and easy job but one I am greatful for. Thanks again to the moderators.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE keep the 100 post rule.  :pray:

I also hope Terry will reconsider the suspension of the rules regulating the classified on this site and expand the rule to all classifieds on this site. All trade throughout the world requires regulations for transactions to occur smoothly and with integrity. To suspend the rules regulating the classified on this site opens the door to more people like Ollis to come here and deceive people, plus I don't think this site would last very long without the rules to guide the membership and that would be a great loss to the traditional archery world and this community.

It's simply C#$p, I don't blame anyone but the people who make the Admin's life miserable. To be fair I will have to agree with a few that my purchasing or trading will be severely limited if at all.

I liked the 100 post rule, even though it stopped me from posting a bow here. Didn't have any problem with it at all.

I'll have to agree with LongStick64, I'll still be looking at post counts when looking at the classifieds....

Pete

PLEASE bring back the 100 post rule! If someone has issues with it then they can take their dealings elsewhere!.. I have to admit that I did not "get it" or even "like it" at first myself! I just wanted to sell a couple of bows right away too, only to get new ones that were and are constantly "dangling" in front of me here on this awesome site! But during and after my first 100 posts...I discovered that there was much more than simply "buying and selling" bows and such! Being a member here on Tradgang has helped deepened my passion for the sport! This whole "addiction" process has also strengthened my relationships with my family and friends...old and new! I believe this type of healthy passion naturally "breeds" integrity!    Having this integrity naturally "breeds" scrupples! That's what we hope for and "expect" from ALL members on this site! But we must keep in mind, that buying, selling, or trading are ONLY a small perk of being members here on Tradgang! This is, BAR NONE, the best site on the planet! Please come back Terry! (and close the "barn doors")! We are all behind you! Robin

When trading gentleman do your home work we may have lost one of our best tools to keep this place right... I truly hope not but can't say as I blame Terry and the Mods for throwing their hands up an walking away... I don't know that I would have taken the crap as long as they did. Man!!!!  I hate it when the bad guys win  :(

I too like the 100 post rule...I've have nothing but good luck when I buy or sell a bow.  I always look at how many post the person I am dealing with and go into their profile to make sure I'm comfortable with who I'm dealing with.

Keep Up the good work...Thank You!

man that really sucks, im constantly looking on here for bows to buy. and i like that it can feel semi safe about those im buying from. we are going to have to be tighter now just to police ourselves. i do understand that this is a forum and not a buisness website, and that the main reason for the gang was to share and learn from one another. the classifieds was just a perk.

I don't blame the administration in their frustration.  It was a noble and worthy goal to police the classifieds, but they are pretty limited in what they can do.  I didn't mind the 100 post rule, but it's a pretty small hurdle to get over and really doesn't say a lot about a persons integrity.

Internet classifieds are an interesting, sometimes disappointing, exercise in human nature.  There will always be scammers.  You go into it knowing that.  Usually the availability of used gear, good prices, trade possibilities, and generally positive interaction with fellow shooters makes up for the risk.  For all the crap you see in the world and the frequently crappy way people treat other people, internet classifieds have been a very positive and encouraging experience for me.  I've had a couple of "glitches" along the way (not on this site), but in general internet dealing has been a very positive experience overall for me.  And as much as it hurts to get burned in any degree, I have saved so much money, tried so many bows, met so many people, that the burn is worth it.  I'm still way ahead.

Thanks to the administration for a noble effort, but I don't blame them for getting out of the game.  For all the work they must have been putting into policing the classifieds, I don't think there is really any more risk there than before.  A feed back system would be nice, like the one on ArcheryTalk, but even that is just a mild reassurance.  It still boils down to...do you think you can trust the other person?

If anyone wants go to the classified pages they will be able to read the rules.

http://tradgang.com/classifiedsrules/

I just did!

I will not deal with anyone who isn't following them.

God bless,Mudd

QuoteOriginally posted by wingnut:
Well the barn doors are open.  I just went to the bow classifieds and we already have a brand new member listing a bow.

Sad day on TradGang.  It's going to hit the fan.

Mike

I couldnt agree more, it is going to hit the fan.

I think the 100 post rule was fine; however, if there isn't an active admin for the classifed section then maybe they can set up a reputation or rating system like some sites have in place so the buyers and sellers can rate each other soley on completed sales or purchases so others can read the feedback on the buyer or seller before they take the risk to buy or sell.
Basically an automated system. I'm not sure what it would take to set it up (or if the forums software even has the feature) but if it's feasible it may be a good option.

Recently, I surpassed 100 posts. No fanfare, just happened. Feel like I got there with some decent posts, seeking & offering some input (I guess you could say the "Traditional" way).
I was prepared, in my own good time, to seek permission from the Mod's to access the Class. Ads. I've bought Bows/Gear both privately & thru our great Sponsers with mutual satisfaction.
If & when I decide to create an Ad to Sell /WTB anything I will do it knowing that both parties (Buyer & Seller) are both comfortable w/ any dealings. A PM, phone call, "references" (they work both ways) are always a good policy.
I've "met" some outstanding TGer's talkin' over the phone that I'll never have the privilege to meet in person, but left the sometimes LONG conversations "knowing" that person was one of character, whether a deal was struck or not. (When ya know, ya know!).
Guess what I'm sayin' is that this unfortunate (but understandable) turn of events won't change the way I try to conduct myself, dealing, and/or participating on this GREAT site.
MUCH respect to our Mod's for their work to keep this Trad Site the BEST on the Web!

                                    Keith

I don't know the answer to this situation.  I know all to well the position of working one's hind quarters off out of sheer good-nature only to have greif heaped on you.


I say a big thanks to Terry and the other moderators for effort put forth so far.

I like the rules, even though they've inconvenienced me in the past.

first and foremost, everything about admining and modding a forum as large as trad gang is a total no-win situation.  you would not believe what we hafta deal with on a daily basis, and then hafta contend with the classifieds issues.  truthfully, the 100 post bow ad rule has helped a huge bunch.  

and just what did the 100 count bow ad posting rule do?  

it meant that you, the buyer, didn't hafta do the grunt work of understanding just who you might be buying from because we had done much of the leg work you would/should have done.  now you'll hafta do that work, which is essentially (amongst a buncha other things) to check out the seller for the amount and type of post activity here at trad gang.

couple this with all the other  guidelines for buying, selling, trading, shipping (http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=043642)  and most everyone should be ok using the classifieds.

so, if you see a brandy new member post a bow for sale that piques yer interest, yer alert hackles should go up - not saying it will be a bad deal, but be smart and let the onus on all transactions fall on the newbie, not you.  word up, folks.

Or we can do what I did.  A new guy with no posts anywhere put a bow up this morning.  I asked him to go elsewhere as our classifieds are for active members only.

Mike

Right on Wingnut. My feeling are the same.

I don't find fault with the clearly stated policy.

Unfortunately, it's the way of the world today.

The policy is very clear. This site is absolved from any and all liability and responsibility of any and all deals.

Just because the old policy may have made "common sense", sadly it did not make legal sense. Even though tradgangers see ourselves as having integrity, you can't run a major web site, or a business, on a promise.

While we'd like a world where a man's word still means something and a handshake is enough, the reality is, that world doesn't exist anymore.

In case anyone is wondering, Craigslist has a similar policy.

QuoteOriginally posted by Mojostick:
I don't find fault with the clearly stated policy.

Unfortunately, it's the way of the world today.

The policy is very clear. This site is absolved from any and all liability and responsibility of any and all deals.

Just because the old policy may have made "common sense", sadly it did not make legal sense. Even though tradgangers see ourselves as having integrity, you can't run a major web site, or a business, on a promise.

While we'd like a world where a man's word still means something and a handshake is enough, the reality is, that world doesn't exist anymore.

In case anyone is wondering, Craigslist has a similar policy.

the 100 post policy had NOTHING to do with "legality" and everything to do with our (admins and mods) personal attempts at offering member transaction protection.

we've ALWAYS stated that any and all transactions cemented via trad gang are at your own risk.

We could ask people with no posts other then on the classifieds to take there stuff elsewhere and mark the ad "do not buy"

I did it with one a little while ago.

Mike

I have a LOT of bows, clothes, magazines and dvd's off of TG. I have never had even a hint of trouble with anyone on this site. I am sure it is due to the 100 post minimum. I may continue to buy off the classifieds but I will not buy from anyone with less than 100 posts an preferably someone well know on this site. I, like all of you, work too hard for my money to run the chance of getting ripped off.

That's a good idea Mike... if you notice an add and discover the poster has less than a 100 posts and places an ad just reply to the post "warning less than 100 posts" and let the buyer beware?

I'm refering to the new policy. I'm also saying I don't blame you guys.

For years I was a moderator on Michigan-Sportsman.com, with nearly 55,000 members. I recently resigned due to the endless headaches and BS. It wasn't fun anymore.

So I get it.

The new policy isn't much of a hardship. One just needs to be a bit more cautious on transactions.

I hate to see such a great site such as tradgang come to this, but maybe in the best interest of the members , the classified section should be eliminated. I spend a lot of time on tradgang through out the day and am sorry to see this meltdown, but give thanks to Rob,Terry and the others for their dedication, persistence and time in running such a great site. An honest thank you to a great bunch of men and women.

Regards,
Rick [Grouse]

WE had done the upfront legwork that classifieds users now will hafta do, should they elect to do anything.  that's really all that's changed.

personally, i am not going backwards to those bow ad post count classifieds rules, i'm done with that, it's over, period.

you wanna know some things to consider about ALL classifieds ad deals?  go to the trad bow classifieds forum and read the sticky post up top.

other than that, it's trad gang as usual.

No offense Rob but a 100 posts from any member does not dissuade me from doing my own investigation of a potential buyer/seller... it only gives me a bare minimal of 100 posts... a 100 posts of "why iz my bow lowd?" or "is fastflyte gud fer my bow?" or any fluff like that won't warrant a sale... lol...I always do my own homework because in the end... I'll be the one paying if something goes awry.

Rules are great but common sense is better... sadly sometimes we need more the aforementioned because the latter is lacking. Not saying I don't appreciate the mods because I do... it's just that I don't rely on them, or anyone for that matter, to hold my hand through a sale.

The lack of a moderator in the bow classifieds won't affect me as it was never a selling point... but I could see how it will make some people's business here harder... with tha said, "DON'T FORGET TO CHECK A POTENTIAL BUYER/SELLER'S SALES HISTORY!!!" (here or elsewhere)

Good luck to all,
Kawika

QuoteOriginally posted by kawika b:
No offense Rob but a 100 posts from any member does not dissuade me from doing my own investigation of a potential buyer/seller... it only gives me a bare minimal of 100 posts... a 100 posts of "why iz my bow lowd?" or "is fastflyte gud fer my bow?" or any fluff like that won't warrant a sale... lol...I always do my own homework because in the end... I'll be the one paying if something goes awry.

Rules are great but common sense is better... sadly sometimes we need more the aforementioned because the latter is lacking. Not saying I don't appreciate the mods because I do... it's just that I don't rely on them, or anyone for that matter, to hold my hand through a sale.

The lack of a moderator in the bow classifieds won't affect me as it was never a selling point... but I could see how it will make some people's business here harder... with tha said, "DON'T FORGET TO CHECK A POTENTIAL BUYER/SELLER'S SALES HISTORY!!!" (here or elsewhere)

Good luck to all,
Kawika

of course there's much more than just the post count check involved, which is why i've always recommended reading these  SUGGESTIONS (http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=043642)

there is no question that not everyone will do their best to check out the other side of their deal, which is why we did the upfront checks.

Don't blame the mods for doing away with their monitoring or the 100 post rule at all, I'm sure they've put up with way more c##p than we'll ever know.

I'm sure that the rest of us can still weed out the bad eggs. Still the best trad site, period.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by kawika b:
No offense Rob but a 100 posts from any member does not dissuade me from doing my own investigation of a potential buyer/seller... it only gives me a bare minimal of 100 posts... a 100 posts of "why iz my bow lowd?" or "is fastflyte gud fer my bow?" or any fluff like that won't warrant a sale... lol...I always do my own homework because in the end... I'll be the one paying if something goes awry.

Rules are great but common sense is better... sadly sometimes we need more the aforementioned because the latter is lacking. Not saying I don't appreciate the mods because I do... it's just that I don't rely on them, or anyone for that matter, to hold my hand through a sale.

The lack of a moderator in the bow classifieds won't affect me as it was never a selling point... but I could see how it will make some people's business here harder... with tha said, "DON'T FORGET TO CHECK A POTENTIAL BUYER/SELLER'S SALES HISTORY!!!" (here or elsewhere)

Good luck to all,
Kawika

of course there's much more than just the post count check involved, which is why i've always recommended reading these  SUGGESTIONS (http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=043642)

there is no question that not everyone will do their best to check out the other side of their deal, which is why we did the upfront checks. [/b]

VERY well said.......but as Rob has already said, NOT everyone will adhere to the "common sense" approach. It is THOSE people that will CRY the loudest and longest. Perhaps it's just to "simple" to click on a "users" name and look at some of the content of their posts. I will continue to do things as I always have done and "do my own homework". I just hope that there isn't enough "bad apples" slipping into the barrel that it spoils the bow classifieds for everyone.

I read Robs sticky about "how" to do your own research on people........and it truly is simple enough. That being said, I'm hoping that people just take the time to do it.

Winterhawk1960

Everything that can be done to safe guard against fraud, especially in this day and age.. I say welcome!!

hope we keep the rules in place we need yall guys .Thanks for the great job

Sorry I haven't said it before but you guys have done a great job.

i too want to thank the moderators for the hard work and dedication they have provided for our site. It took me some time to get my post but it is worth the wait knowing that those who are not upright would be revealed.I like the rule and if someone dosen't let them go to a  different site.

I personally like the moderators keeping a tight reign on things ( thanks Terry & Rob)  i could see the frustration side of things, but yet I cannot see it. Obviously the people giving them the grief was people we probably don't want around here anyways, Terry, Rob, just hit the delete key to peoples membership who are giving you grief and not following the rules ! Just my thought on things.
Dan

Sorry I haven't said it before but you guys have done a great job.

First I want to thank the mods for all of the work that they put into this site.
I think that the classified section is a very small part of what makes this site great. We should be grown up enough to research any deals made through the classified ourselves. The Mods have posted some pretty good guidelines to help us so the rest is up to us. Let the buyer beware.

Am I the only one who's been around here BEFORE the 100 post rule? for goodness sake, it's not the end of the world.

larry

I think the 100 post rule was great, And I don't have 100 posts yet. Now buyer beware!

QuoteOriginally posted by larry:
Am I the only one who's been around here BEFORE the 100 post rule? for goodness sake, it's not the end of the world.

larry

:thumbsup:

The 100 post rule is fine, but before I do a deal, I do a comprehensive search on the email address, the mailing address, the street view of the house, a search on other forums, a request for references, and any other details I can scrape up about the buyer/seller.You all like to think that trad bowhunters are a special breed but there are just as many shady characters as any other segment of the population. Do your homework, buyer beware, and be prepared to contact the DA in any municipality where you may have been schnookered. Amazing how fast you can get a good check when the local law enforcement pays a visit with a copy of a bad check in their hands.

I with you Larry   :thumbsup:

With Larry X3   :campfire:

I'm with Terry Green and what he and the mods want!   :readit:    :thumbsup:

tradgang is a treasure that needs to be protected.  and nurtured.  

So guys keep up the great work

and

THANK YOU

>>>>------------>>>>

I will be making a post this evening...

I'have been giving this some thought.

A way to protect all of those who like to trade on a frequent basis.....and keep the problems to basically ZERO for Administration.....while making the trading process even more secure.

No doubt some will hollar at that two...but those that hollar might not should be included in the 1st place.  It will cost ups some software and some work....but ....we'll....latet tonight....let me chat with Rob.

Terry would appreciate your return to Keep everything real...Love the site and the great trad gangers.Not to mention all the things Ive learned from everyone.Thanks Terry and Trad Gangers Aloha..

Terry,
I've been on this site for quit a while and visit here almost every day unless I'm on vacation or hunting trips.  I like the rules as they have been thus far and really feel it is sad that some have to stir up such a mess for those of us that respect and value this forum.  Thanks for all you and the moderators have done and giving us this place to share bowhunting knowledge and experiences with a little trading of some gear and stuff along the way.  It is a great resource in our little community of trad bowhunters.  

Dino