does this happen to you ! ive been shooting my 53lb lee rec iv been noticing goofy arrow flight so i stripped of feathers on one shaft shot a few times and had diff results stiff weak bare shaft hitting high then low for 3days i beat my brain . i shoot 3under i noticed that the lower nock which is dental floss seemed to be worn .arrow nock was had alot of slop upand down retied the lower nock and now im back to good arrow flight I STILL LOVE TRAD !
your serving is probably moving around on you. gotta watch that. i use thread and super glue for my nocks and it moves. the brass nocks tend to clamp the serving in place and can prevent this. hope this helps.
I shoot three under and only have a top knot. From your post, have you abandoned your bottom nock, or did you just tie a new one?
I like to use two tie on nocks,been doing that for around 15 years since I started shooting Trad bows.Just the way I have always done it.
I use two tied on nocks to keep the arrow from slipping down also. I have found that even the same size and style nock from the same manufacturer may grip the string different in different colors(my bohning signature flo. yellow is noticeably tighter than the standard yellow). With only a top nock I would get a bobble/wobble arrow every few shots and noticed the nocks on those arrows fit looser. Added a second nock point and problem solved.
I used two when shooting 3 under, but since I switched back to split finger, I find the second nock to be superfluous. I've tried one and two and can't see a difference in flight when shooting split. I did notice and occasional bobble when shooting 3 under with only one nock.
I use B50 for my tied on nocks and they don't move around. They will wear out eventually, but are cheap to replace. I don't like brass. It wears my tab/glove and the only strings I've had break broke at the metal nock.
i shoot the same setup. brass nock on top and dental floss knot on bottom. i do get wear on my dental floss. not sure if it is from bad release causing arrow nock to push against it. or i think my glove wears on it from releaseing string.
I use 2 tied on knocks. I used to shoot a brass top knock but it wore out my glove as well.
I shoot 2 fingers under and I always use one nock above and at the very least a rubber eliminator button below. Now I started using the rubber eliminator button right against the bottom of the arrow nock as a cushion and a brass string nock below the rubber button. Arrow nock slippage can be a real problem and really mess with ya. It will con you into thinking something else is wrong when it's just simply a nock slipping problem with a simple fix.
Besides, what's it gonna cost you to try one? Brass string nocks are cheap, try it and if it makes no difference just take it back off.
At least I can be sure my nock isn't slipping down so that eliminates one problem that I don't have to deal with, then look elsewhere for improper arrow flight issues like fletching contact, arrow spine, brace height, ect.
i use 2 dental floss nocks with a light super glue coating to keep them in place
I shoot split finger and use one tie in (not waxed) dental floss knot above, with a drop of super glue smoothed around the floss. Have never had it slip or wear out.
I went to two nocks also for the same reason. Got great arrow flight right away. I use two brass. Yes it does wear more but I don't care. The arrows fly like laser beams!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by Chimaster:
I went to two nocks also for the same reason. Got great arrow flight right away. I use two brass. Yes it does wear more but I don't care. The arrows fly like laser beams!!!
I use a crimped on 2 nock set also....whats the advantages/disadvantages of having the lower one tied on or just using a crimp on nock?
High speed video revealed arrow nocks do move down the string at release....it happens with both split and 3 under.
Check this vid out
http://picasaweb.google.com/mtravis58/AVIs#5440061375576120818
Been advocating this for a loooong time and nobody seemed to give a rip. This is fool proof! LOL
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/charlie/48.jpg)
You may not know it Charlie but when you talk we listen. I've been using both top and bottom tied on nocks since you posted that arrow in mid launch that slipped down the string.
Is that yellow serving or string material?
I pay attention Charlie. My top "nock" is double serving for an inch or so(it never slips)but my bottom one is just a knot as I shoot 3 under.
QuoteOriginally posted by KentuckyTJ:
You may not know it Charlie but when you talk we listen. I've been using both top and bottom tied on nocks since you posted that arrow in mid launch that slipped down the string.
Is that yellow serving or string material?
X2.....I listened as well! Thanks Charlie and Rod!
Charlie,
Do you remember when the "GOOD IN PLENTY" candy was out and that little song/jingle that went like this...Charlie says "I love my Good in Plenty"? Well I can't help from listing as well when Charlie say's something about archery that will benafit us in our quest to advance in our shooting/hunting skills..Good video there and just in the past month I just decided to try a tie on nock and loved it ...I just got curious from a good friend named Otis saying he does one above and under so I took a spare nock slipped it on the string as my guide and some 450 plus string material and tied one below just to give it a try...Now I then set up our video camera inside my workshop directly in front of the target to see what my groups looked like and to help me really consentrate more on my shooting skills and not to hit our camera cause if I did I would be in the doghouse forever... My group was all in the center of my rineheart 18 target and I was busting a few nocks...I noticed three things while doing this..No slippage,bow was more quiet,and better groups...I also didn't hit the camcorder and still get to sleep in our bed...For now on I'll have a tie on above and below.. :D
Gosh thanks guys. Makes an old guy feel good.
Is there a benefit to "tying" on the 2nd nock or is it ok just to "crimp" another brass nock set on under ?
Hmmm... Interesting stuff to ponder. I have used double brass in the past, and it was fine. I might try it again.
QuoteOriginally posted by Onlyaspike:
Is there a benefit to "tying" on the 2nd nock or is it ok just to "crimp" another brass nock set on under ?
The benefit of tying on the lower nock instead of using a brass one is that the tied-on nock doesn't wear out your tab or glove like a brass nock will. If you shoot split finger then you might consider tying on the upper AND lower nock instead of using brass nocks for the same reason.
I use two served nockpoints about 1/4" apart, so the nock doesn't push of the string at full draw.
Its a good idea to learn how to tie these onto your serving.
A longer string serving is also more stable and shoots better than a shorter one.
This is one of the best topics I've seen and for many years I was a brass nock user..NOT ANY MORE...I know some of you will want to learn how to do this so check out the "HOW TO" section and Rob has a simple pic post..If you have a printer copy his photos and go try it..You will see the difference and even an old guy who's been shooting since I was 13/14 yr.s old can learn a new lesson sometimes...Keefer's <")))><
Looks like a great set up there Charlie. Thanks for the tip.
I have been tying my nock on both top and bottom, works great for me.
2-X, or is it 5-X, what Charlie does. It really helps the fingers when using a skinny string.
Always use crimp on...does anyone have a simple way, explanation of how to effectively do tie on knocks? Having never done it, I would be interested so I don't srew it up???
Check out the "How-to" section on here. Rob and another or two have videos on how to do it.
That looks good Charlie, may have to tinker with that some, try to be open minded, always learning. That being said, I use a clamp on brass nock 95% of the time, never had any issues with just one nock. I have had guys with terrible arrow fligth due to using 2 nocks, remove the bottom one and the problem leaves. I shoot 3 under. It always seemed like served knots were in a continual state of wear to me.
Latest issue of TBM has an article on it as well. My only dilema has always been the string stretch/ readjust (redo!) of the tied on nock points. As a string stretches, the nocking point changes. With clamp ons you just readjust. However I have also noticed clamp ons below the nock have a tendency to creep slightly downward. So... I go back and forth and have used both. No offense to Charlie but your string better be REALLY broken in to commit to that much tie on IM (humble)O.
As the string stretch it dosnt change the nock location.The bow tillers by the limbs.Shouldnt have to move anything.
I just use serving material and tie what we call a worm knot. Just alternating half knots, (about 8 of them) tied the opposite way the serving is wound. As the string stretches you just screw the nock point up or down the serving til it gets where you want it. Kinda like using your serving like allthread.
Thanks for the advice, just what I was looking for.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
I just use serving material and tie what we call a worm knot. Just alternating half knots, (about 8 of them) tied the opposite way the serving is wound. As the string stretches you just screw the nock point up or down the serving til it gets where you want it. Kinda like using your serving like allthread.
That's what I do, but I use 10 knots instead of 8. I learned this about 20 years ago and it was called the "ten knot nock". I then put a small amount of fletch-tite glue on it and let it glaze over and it works great.
Like Michael of Legends bows said,"the nocking point doesn't change".... unless your string is only stretching on one end.
While I sure don't want to sound like a smart ass, I'm not sure why if your string stretches you would change the nocking point height. I always thought you would adjust the string to it's proper length/brace height.
I really really like what I'll call the Lamb-nock :)
But I've tried it in the past and got frustrated with something on the nock-knot just not being right.
I'll have sit down and try it again since I'm in the process of setting another bow up. It looks like the perfect fool-proof setup of use in the field.
I'm with you Charlie and others that said that your nocking point doesn't change when your string stretches. At least I've never had it happen. It just doesn't make sense that it would change position. Maybe those guys just had a nocking point slip up or down the string and thought it was because the string stretched? :dunno:
Thanks for questions. Read the nock article in this months TBM. He does a much better job explaining it than I could ever do. I'll add that you're right, the nock doesn't change while the string stretches. The limbs aborb the length and the brace height just goes down. (as long as the string stretches equally along its whole length... which I understand is rare).
THE RUB is when you add twists to take up that slack and re establish the brace height. Most often guys twist from one end only. That cause the nock point move slightly that direction. Now to counter that, if I have tied on nocks I try to split the twists between both ends. However sometimes you still don't get back to exactly the same point. Depending on the amount of change, I twist or RE-DO the nocking point.(I might add it depends on how anal you are about the set up) If you are using clamp ons, you can twist on just one end and its easy to readjust. (but they wear gloves and drift on their own :( )
The issue I have with Charlie's set up is it looks a little hard to adjust. Thus it's probably best for a really broken in string. No offense... I know its blasphemy to question the master. :)
I've experienced this same thing as well, using B50 for my selfbows I have to add more brace ht. at least once, sometimes twice before it settles in good. I have had the nocking point get higher on me when adding more twist. I don't know why but sometimes it just does. That's why I use 2 brass nocks for ease of adjustment. The padded serving/knock tied on looks nice and it's a great idea, don't get me wrong I'm not knocking Charlie's advice at all. He knows his stuff that's for sure.
Maybe it's just a matter of personal preferrence?
In theory the nock shouldn't move up or down when adding twist to the string, but rarely does "theory" ever pan out for me.
Just call me "Bad Luck Shleprock" :knothead:
No blasphemy at all my friend. I can be wrong like anyone else.... and am frequently. Having said that, I still disagree.
;)
Ok,I had to set this straight.I took a bow and over and under twisted the string.I used a new and older used string.I first tested by only twisting one end.Every time it was checked i saw no change.When you twist one end of a string it adjust the whole length of the string not just one end.I didnt do this to discredit anyone.Just also wanted to confirm again for myself.
Charlie,
That is a GREAT looking way to address the problem.
No big bumps on the string wearing out your tab.
Lil thicker string to hold on to which I like.
Looks trick as all get out.
I like it!
I am curious though..
Why do you tie the nock-like bump on the bottom?
Is the extra serving just not quite enough to keep the arrow from sliding?
Thanks :thumbsup:
Not 100% sure on this but the tie on can be adjustable up or down when tuning the arrow but I tried making a serving type nock and I couldn't twist it..I quess if you know exactly where the nock height needs to be you can serve them...Keefers ,<")))><
Zadrix... The "bump" is put there so that the nocking location can be felt while keeping your eye on the target.
It could as easilly be placed so it's above the nock of the arrow.
Double serving alone would keep the arrow in place.
Keefer... I usually use a small piece of masking tape for a nocking point when setting up a new string. Once I've extablished where it needs to be I serve on the permanent nocking point.
Never had one wear out or wear on my glove/tab.
When I start laying up the "bump" I put superglue on each layer. I don't even bother to tie it off... just glue the tag end down.
Once it's dry it can (and should) be smoothed off with an Emory board or sandpaper.
For what it's worth, my nocking points always end up at the same height on whatever bow I'm shooting.... height on a longbow is different than what it is on a recurve, but still consistent from bow to bow.
This is certainly not the only way to do it. It's just the way I do it.
Thanks for the reply Mr Lamb.
Makes good sense. Could definitely be one of those things you learn the hard way in the field.
I think I'll give this one a try.
WWCLD?....lol
Thank you
:thumbsup:
Now that's funny right there!!
:D
I have become a guy who serves above and below for my nock point. I use 8125 string material and twist it up before wrapping it around the string to make it round and more durable. It's real fast and wears like iron.
I used to use the 10 knot knot so I could twist up or down but it moved alot from the string rolling off my fingers.
Now I pretty much do what charlie does witht he making tape until I'm tuned and then serve on two permanent points. Never had them move from string stretch or twisting of string. I do not bother with the buit up area like in Charlies post so mine are nice and smooth right up to both sides of the nock.
Agreed to disagree :) I see it primarily when breaking in brand new strings. I think its a variable of the new string being in flux. But who knows, there are so many variables. I'm kind of suprised.... I thought that it was just understood. Heck a guy even published and article about it? Just goes to show.
Regardless, for those who haven't made up an opinion, check and track your nocking point next time you break in a string. I think you might be suprised.
PS When I was using more brass nocking points, (and I felt like things were done settling in), I would throw a couple of knots of serving below and above my nock points. (Sort of low committal hybrid.) Seemed to work great. my two cents
I'll keep a closer watch next time I am breaking in a new string Jeff. :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by Zradix:
Thanks for the reply Mr Lamb...........I think I'll give this one a try.............WWCLD?....lol
Thank you
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup: