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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: easyup on April 17, 2011, 01:35:00 PM

Title: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: easyup on April 17, 2011, 01:35:00 PM
How serious is this riser crack?  Perfectly straight and vertical and 4" long on one side and 6" on the other side, exactly opposite like it is a joint failure in the micarta.  Can feel with thumb nail on one side only.  I had a similar appearing crack in Macassar ebony along the grain line and the bowyer super glued it and then refinished.  Would never have thought a riser would crack in the synthetic material.
Thanks for you input, it's appreciated.
(http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu121/easyup/DSC_0652.jpg)
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 17, 2011, 01:55:00 PM
They all need to be fixed in my eyes. Your riser has the most stress of any part of your bow. I would have that fixed. Is that a glue line or a full blown crack?
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Orion on April 17, 2011, 02:00:00 PM
It's not a riser crack.  That's slightly lifted finish on the glue line between two pieces of fiberglass. Not sure exactly what causes it. Finish not sticking to the underying epoxy line.  Differential expansion and contraction of the fiberglass pieces. Don't know.  Regardless, isn't a problem.  I have a couple of ACSs that have done the same thing. Can steel wool the lifted finish to remove most of the raised finish.  The folks at ACS offered to refinish my risers, but I haven't taken them up on the offer yet.  Not enough to worry about IMO.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Pat B. on April 17, 2011, 02:32:00 PM
I have one with the same glue line showing.. I didn't consider it a problem and haven't asked about it..
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on April 17, 2011, 02:38:00 PM
Myabe it isnt an issue safety or integrity wise. If I get charged $1200-1500 for a bow it better not have glue lines like that......ever. Just my 2.3241 cents.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Froggy on April 17, 2011, 03:25:00 PM
I agree with Pearl drums. Out of all the lower end priced bows I have had, none have had glue lines showing like that.... I would expect it to be repaired and shipping covered both ways if I had ordered it new and paid the dimes they charge for them, with that said I would bet that's what the folks at A&H will do... Just imo.

Froggy
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: YORNOC on April 17, 2011, 05:09:00 PM
I got "scolded" by a couple of top notch bowyers last time I spoke up on a situation like this, but my answer is the same.
If you paid for a new bow, and it has imperfections that show up, the bowyer should cover it including shipping. Shouldn't even be a question about it. You didn't get a price break on a bow with glue lines did you?  Its obviously a very nice bow, hope all works out.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: David Mitchell on April 17, 2011, 05:21:00 PM
I would not find that acceptable at all.  I would want it fixed.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Pat B. on April 17, 2011, 05:21:00 PM
The one I have with the lines was used when I got it.. I'm sure they would refinish it but I shoot that bow every single day.. Not about to let it out of my sight, lol..
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: kawika b on April 17, 2011, 06:04:00 PM
Same bow as the one in this thread? (http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=088120;p=1)
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: YORNOC on April 17, 2011, 06:17:00 PM
Pat, thats my problem too. Easy for me to say it should be fixed, but I wouldnt want to part with it either.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: easyup on April 17, 2011, 08:53:00 PM
kawika,
No, that thread was the same thing along a grain line in ebony and was a bow from another very famous bowyer who did a nice repair for just about return shipping cost.  I guess I am not too lucky with glue.

and

Pat & YORNOC,
I ask because I really don't want to risk problems in shipping, etc.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: kawika b on April 17, 2011, 09:00:00 PM
Damn Kenneth... maybe you should've been a self bow guy, lol.   :D
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: LongStick64 on April 17, 2011, 09:02:00 PM
I'd be shocked if the bowyer would not want to refinish the riser for you for only the cost of return shipping. Most of my dealings with bowyers have been this case, only one got a little cranky with me and wanted to charge me 150.00 for it.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Plumber on April 18, 2011, 04:40:00 AM
is that the nature of that type of riser  material? or is it in the glue used?
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Whip on April 18, 2011, 07:52:00 AM
How old is the riser?  Are you the original owner?  
As bows age with changes in temperature, humidity, etc. that is not uncommon to see where they develop a line like that at a glue line.  If it is an older bow I don't know how you could blame it on the bowyer.  If it's newer I'm betting they would be happy to take care of it, but either way, it would be best to talk with them first.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: easyup on April 18, 2011, 09:01:00 AM
It's an '09 and I am sure they will fix it under warranty.  I think I will have it done as I just can't get my head around it being only a finish issue and not a problem in the underlying material.  I am positive they get the best materials they can get their hands on, natural and man made, and also know even the best material manufacturer can have problems from time to time.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: see on April 18, 2011, 12:58:00 PM
i don't think I would want to pay lots for a bow with lines in it whether it was cracked or not.If it can be repaired don't you think it would be wise for the resale would be much better later on if by chance you wanted to part with it then?
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Shawn Leonard on April 18, 2011, 02:47:00 PM
Whip, sorry but I have to agree, even if the bow is older it should not happen and the bowyer should step up and fix it. Their are many bows out there that are 40 and 50 years old and they do not develope glue lines like that and you are saying with modern materials we should except that, even due to some weathering and moisture, nope I disagree!! I believe a bowyer should stand behind their work and if due to material or workmanship it should be repaired. You may have to draw the line somewhere but a bow that is even 5 or 6 years old should not do that. As Chad said when your reputation depends on the sale of bows I would hope as a bowyer they would make it right, if it happens enough and the bowyer don't fix it, word will get out and they won't be in business for long! Shawn
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Whip on April 18, 2011, 03:19:00 PM
Most bowyers might stand behind it regardless just to keep from the bad PR that could result.  But I can tell you that I have seen very similar lines on many, if not most, of the high dollar bows out there.  I won't name names, because I don't think that is fair to the bowyers.  
But it happens, and I don't think there is necessarily a thing that the bowyer did wrong that would cause it to happen.  The only material that I am aware of that should never have that happen is metal.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Whip on April 18, 2011, 03:25:00 PM
I should also probably say that there are things I bowyer could do that could cause it to happen more often than it should, like using improperly cured wood, etc.  But I highly doubt that was the case in this situation.  And most bowyers that have been at it for awhile are pretty good at preventing it.  But I still think that most probably do experience it to some extent.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Peckerwood on April 18, 2011, 04:08:00 PM
These things happen. The 1st thing you should do is contact the bowyer. They should at least be given the opportunity to respond before all the "experts " give their opinion. A&H has always been more than fair with me. There customer service is the best.

Bill
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: David Mitchell on April 18, 2011, 05:01:00 PM
Never had it happen even on any of the "less than high dollar" bows I own. If this is a regular thing, the bowyer needs to change to different materials in my opinion.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Whip on April 18, 2011, 08:02:00 PM
Nope, it's not "normal", or to be expected, by any means. It is the exception, and not the rule.  I'm just saying it does happen, and most likely can happen to any bowyer, no matter what he does to try to prevent it.  Give them a chance to address it first.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: limbow on April 18, 2011, 09:18:00 PM
I agree fully with Bill(Peckerwood). I would think one would contact the bowyer first and get their thoughts/perspective before posting anything on a forum.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Turkeys Fear Me on April 19, 2011, 06:03:00 AM
There are 4 risers on this thread alone with the same problem. If I were the bowyer I'd want to fix them, and more importantly examine my process and find out why.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Dave Worden on April 19, 2011, 09:37:00 AM
I'm just guessing, but I've seen glue "creep" in my woodworking and that may be what this is.  The glue just continues to expand over time and squeezes out at the glue line, creating a ridge.  It's just a characteristic of the type of glue.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Dan Palma on April 19, 2011, 12:10:00 PM
This is a finish crack that is between two pieces of 3/8 black fiber glass.  We have refinished 3 risers over the last 4 years with this issue showing up.  Some folk's think it's from a dry fire, Gordon's Composite didn't have an answer, so were not sure why out of close to a 1000 risers this had happen a few times.  We have refinished anyone's bow who ask for it to be done... free...including ship and it doesn't have to be the original purchase. Out of the 3 we did refinish we have not seen it show up again.
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: Pierre Lucas on April 19, 2011, 12:29:00 PM
That's what you like to hear....Good job Dan.    

God Bless,  Pierre and Jean-Pierre
Title: Re: Riser crack, how serious? **Pic**
Post by: on April 19, 2011, 01:25:00 PM
I have seen this in some rosewood applications with epoxy and i had on a rosewood/micarta joint on a recurve. I was told it is epoxy gassing and nothing to worry about.  what I did get is that Pearldrum is calculating inflation into his opinion.  the S and P has devalued the dollar and he may need to consider another hike.  I am going for 3 cents here, the bowyer is doing his job by refinishing or fixing the blemish, if fit bothers you or makes you feel uncomfortable get it fixed.