Just wanted to drop in a first post and introduce myself. I've been lurking as a non-member around the site for some time and finally took the dive into traditional archery. After years of shooting compound and recently looking for a new bow after a 5 year vacation from archery, I was barraged with hundreds of compounds bows, insanely new technology and thought to myself... why?
After gasping at the prices and all the accessories required to be a "real compound bow hunter", I chose the traditional route. I've always been fascinated with recurves and long bows. So looking around I wasn't happy with what the major manufacturer's were offering, so I looked some more and found White Wolf Custom bows. Exceptionally priced and amazingly styled, not to mention the added bonus of the reflex/deflex limbs. I found one that Tony was selling on his shop. (See pictures below).
Picked up a 64" - 49# @ 28" (my draw is a little over 27"). I am still a little concerned I will be "overbowed" but I'm hopeful and think I will be OK. I did have a question for those with more experience: Is the measuring arm span and dividing by 2.5 an accurate way to measure draw length? The pro-shop guy took a guess when I walked in and said I was a 27" draw length, after calculating I was 69" / 2.5, which is 27.6, do we round down?
Being my draw length is 27", I know it's not completely cut and dry but would 29" or 30" arrows be suitable for my application? My thought process was that the extra bit of arrow on the end would assist with aiming. I may be wrong there, I'm not sure.
Hopefully my bow will arrive tomorrow and I'll be able to set the nock point, go get some arrows cut (cheating with carbons & feathers), and shoot until I'm sore. I'll admit to being a little nervous about shooting traditional but I've always been a natural aim, and hope that won't change.
I'm a system administrator (BIG computers/servers), I'm willing to offer guidance, consultation etc. for anyone that needs it pertaining to traditional archery, environmental conservation or hunters rights. My father used to teach hunters education so I know the importance and under-funding these programs get. I do some graphic design work and know how to develop web pages. Pretty much the jack of all trades with computers, so if you have a trad club, trade event, or just want to talk tech I can assist you with designing invitations, websites, logos, etc. If you need help picking out a new PC drop me a line, I can offer advise. I offer this all free to those in the "inner circle".
Have a good night, and see everyone around!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_yd2QFlQ7P9Y/TZuJM2zW-sI/AAAAAAAAABE/3a-_IY2pUEo/s800/Longbow-2.JPG/img%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_yd2QFlQ7P9Y/TZuJNHJhDII/AAAAAAAAABI/HEFJbCem3Go/s800/Longbow-1.JPG) (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_yd2QFlQ7P9Y/TZuJh8zYDzI/AAAAAAAAABU/NYylbGGiO4k/s800/Longbow-6.JPG) (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_yd2QFlQ7P9Y/TZuJiWmQYYI/AAAAAAAAABc/Oa72160AHsI/s800/Longbow-4.JPG) (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_yd2QFlQ7P9Y/TZuJjArGSMI/AAAAAAAAABg/IkwO24QJPHY/s800/Longbow-7.JPG) (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_yd2QFlQ7P9Y/TZuJjWSdOnI/AAAAAAAAABk/K9B6R8wV5OQ/s800/Longbow-8.JPG) (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_yd2QFlQ7P9Y/TZuJjlANTJI/AAAAAAAAABo/ap7nLXcBqRo/s800/Longbow-9.JPG) (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_yd2QFlQ7P9Y/TZuJNHJhDII/AAAAAAAAABI/HEFJbCem3Go/s800/Longbow-1.JPG)
Welcome to the tradgang family!
Enjoy your journey along with the rest of us.
God bless,Mudd
Welcome along... :)
As for some of your questions:
1 - Draw length - You really should cut your arrows longer at first to see where you settle in on anchor and muscle conditioning.
2 - Nock point - Bare shaft tune and see where it goes. My advice would be to get some GT Traditional carbons in 3555 and leave them full length until you get # one above figured out.
3 - Buy a doz each 125, 145, and 160 grain field points to help with #1 and #2 above.
4 - Maybe even consider buying an inexpensive recurve at around #30 pull and practice form and anchor with it, then get serious with the #49er.
My advice is what I'd do. If you can shoot a #49 bow from the start then go for it. I'm sure other folks will chime in with sound advice. There are many seasoned hunters and shooters on here with waaaay more experience then I have.
Again, welcome aboard.
Bud
Welcome to the gang,be carefull it is addicting and some of the customs get a pretty penny,but some us think they are worth it!!
QuoteOriginally posted by Bud B.:
Welcome along... :)
As for some of your questions:
1 - Draw length - You really should cut your arrows longer at first to see where you settle in on anchor and muscle conditioning.
2 - Nock point - Bare shaft tune and see where it goes. My advice would be to get some GT Traditional carbons in 3555 and leave them full length until you get # one above figured out.
3 - Buy a doz each 125, 145, and 160 grain field points to help with #1 and #2 above.
4 - Maybe even consider buying an inexpensive recurve at around #30 pull and practice form and anchor with it, then get serious with the #49er.
My advice is what I'd do. If you can shoot a #49 bow from the start then go for it. I'm sure other folks will chime in with sound advice. There are many seasoned hunters and shooters on here with waaaay more experience then I have.
Again, welcome aboard.
Bud
Good advice, thanks! I've been working on my bow arm, the father-in-law has a compound @ 45# (he had double elbow and shoulder surgery so he can't shoot much weight) that I've been holding at it's peak (before let off), I think with a little conditioning and shooting with the new bow I won't have a problem. I used to shoot a 65# compound, it was OLD and didn't have much let off, still WAY different than traditional bows though.
As far as the nock goes, are there guys that don't shoot with nock points? I will give it a whirl before I go throwing nock points on the string. I was looking at Carbon Express 4560's 29-30" (or more now...), with 100 grain points.
Thanks again!
QuoteOriginally posted by BOWMARKS:
Welcome to the gang,be carefull it is addicting and some of the customs get a pretty penny,but some us think they are worth it!!
You're telling me, I stumbled on the Black Widow bow site, and I could hear the wife yelling at me just for browsing... :help:
It's awesome to see such handy work and woodworking being done. I'm a young-un, but being in technology all day at work, it's nice to escape to a simpler time. One big thing for me was that I don't *need* a pro-shop to press my bow, and I can support more local folks as opposed to large companies.
Nice to have you hear. I would start with a 35/55 GT as they are usually available, not crazy about them but as I said most shops carry them cut them to 30"s that way later you can cut shorter if you need too. Or anything .500 spine Out of that bow I would say go with at least a 175 grain point if not more. An aluminum insert is roughly 15 grains so field points from 160-200 grains would be a great way to get started. Screw a couple different weights on and see which gives you the best flight. At least you will be close this way and can start shooting right from the get go with getting frustrated from the get-go. You can fine tune things as you go. If you have been lurking here I am sure you are way ahead of the curve and not a true newby! Best of luck and let us know how you make out!!! Most of all have fun!! Shawn
Welcome glad to have ya with us.
:campfire:
Welcome.Years ago(1985)I bought my first custom bow (Colorado Bighorn) from G. Fred Asbell and also got his book alittle later Instintive Shooting,step by step guide to better Bowhunting.This book improved my shooting and bowhunting skills immensely.I've recently purchased Masters of the Barebow 3 volumns.It is full of various shooting styles and technics from some of the Best around,its alot of FUN too,
welcome,nice bow :campfire:
:wavey:
QuoteOriginally posted by Shawn Leonard:
Nice to have you hear. I would start with a 35/55 GT as they are usually available, not crazy about them but as I said most shops carry them cut them to 30"s that way later you can cut shorter if you need too. Or anything .500 spine Out of that bow I would say go with at least a 175 grain point if not more. An aluminum insert is roughly 15 grains so field points from 160-200 grains would be a great way to get started. Screw a couple different weights on and see which gives you the best flight. At least you will be close this way and can start shooting right from the get go with getting frustrated from the get-go. You can fine tune things as you go. If you have been lurking here I am sure you are way ahead of the curve and not a true newby! Best of luck and let us know how you make out!!! Most of all have fun!! Shawn
Unfortunately the shop around here only carries Trophy Ridge and Carbon Express arrows. The closest shop that carries GT's is about an hour away.
The one strange thing is Carbonexpress uses an "adjusted bow draw weight" scheme, you fill out what kind of bow you have, add and subtract numbers depending and it gives you what draw weight to use when referencing their arrows.
With 100 grain screw in points, at 28"+ (29/30"), they recommend Mutiny, Piledriver, Mayhem, Maxima, and Terminator lite in 250. The heavier was the Rebel in 4560.
Being unfamiliar with traditional bows, is it better to have a heavier broadhead/tip than a stiffer arrow? (am I confusing my terms, I'm still *new* to this... =) )
EDIT: After looking quickly, most of the CE 250 Arrows are spined @ .400+
Welcome aboard, Great site and very knowledgeable group. Enjoy the ride.
Welcome! Nice looking bow.
Welcome!
Good advice above (as always)! Be sure to also check out Rob DiStefano's "newbie" post up top.
My very first custom Bow was a White Wolf (Longbow). Tony was great to deal with, still think of him from time to time.
Keith
Welcome to the gang. It's a great bunch and a great site, as I'm sure you know. Alex
Welcome to the gang !
George
Sorry but your shop has no clue!! With those arrows you will need over 250 grains up front even cut to 30"s. They will be way too stiff. As I said get a .500 spine which they should have in one of the shafts you mentioned and keep it at least 30"s and go with a minimum of 175 point weight. Ex. I shoot a high performance recurve cut well past center and a my draw 28.5"s I am shooting 51#s right now and with a 29.5" .500 spined arrow I am shooting 175 grains up front for perfect arrow flight. Carbon is a different animal off of traditional bows and sorry but most compound shooters and shops have no clue. Shawn
Where in NY are ya? Arrow weight is important but the spine is what you really have to get right to get an arrow to fly well from traditional bows, so no a stiff arrow is not good, an arrow that is stiff you can weaken and make fly well but you need to add a lot of point weight to do that. A .400 spine out of that bow will require a lot of point weight even if left full length and cut to 30"s they woulld require at least 250 grains of point weight and most likely more. Keep asking lots of questions as most peoplehere can be very helpful! Shawn
Welcome to Tradgang,there are very good folks on here.Enjoy!
Hiya and welcome - great bunch of guys here you made the right choice. I too work in IT, it's funny, many of our thoughts are the same regarding simpler things (traditional shooting, less tech) :)
I am pretty new too but feel free to drop me a line and I'll be happy to help anyway I can, welcome to the fun :thumbsup:
WELCOME,,,YOUR IN GOOD HANDS HERE,,,ENJOY,,,
QuoteOriginally posted by Shawn Leonard:
Where in NY are ya? Arrow weight is important but the spine is what you really have to get right to get an arrow to fly well from traditional bows, so no a stiff arrow is not good, an arrow that is stiff you can weaken and make fly well but you need to add a lot of point weight to do that. A .400 spine out of that bow will require a lot of point weight even if left full length and cut to 30"s they woulld require at least 250 grains of point weight and most likely more. Keep asking lots of questions as most peoplehere can be very helpful! Shawn
Thanks for the information, no one would really know my town name, it's a SMALL town in Washington County. I always tell people it's about 20 minutes EAST of Glens Falls. Close to the VT border.
I'm noticing more and more that this world is designed towards compounds. Of course that's where shops make the most $$$. I had one shop down in Albany tell me only crazy and weird people buy recurve bows when I asked if I could shoot one. I promptly left. He was full of himself, he shot competition and is in the Hoyt catalog (like I cared...).
I've been playing with the Stu Miller calculator some, the "sweet spot". I've heard mixed reviews about the accuracy of this spreadsheet. Either way, I found that CE Predator II's 3050's with a 100grain point gave me an exact match on the Dynamic Spine number between bow and arrow (65.2 lbs)
I was even more confused to find that arrow manufacturer's denote spine deflection two different (maybe more) ways. Easton says the higher the number the more flexible the spine, while CE says the higher the number the stiffer the spine.
I'm still looking but I've got a few arrow and tip setups to go to the shop with. If they can't fulfill at least one... I'll need to find a new shop, or order them online.
Thanks again for the information, and thanks to everyone for the warm welcome.
Welcome, nice looking bow
QuoteOriginally posted by JohnnyWayne:
Hiya and welcome - great bunch of guys here you made the right choice. I too work in IT, it's funny, many of our thoughts are the same regarding simpler things (traditional shooting, less tech) :)
I am pretty new too but feel free to drop me a line and I'll be happy to help anyway I can, welcome to the fun :thumbsup:
I guess troubleshooting complex issues all day makes us not want to bring those same complex problems home. I want to enjoy my past times, not have to fix them or "tune' them all the time. At least that's how I feel. Glad to hear I'm not the only IT person around!
I would think that Tony (White Wolf) would be willing to help you select the proper arrow. I would also be careful about what a "Pro Shop" employee tells you, most of them have no working knowledge of a stick bow. Enjoy the ride. The destination is endless.
My experience with the pro shop is not good. I have found that a good mentor is the way to go when matching an arrow to a bow. There are several methods and thoughts about how to tune an arrow to the bow. Recently, I purchased a Leon Stewart bow. I was not sure of what to do.
I did go to Lancaster Archery where John, the Trad guy, told me to use full length arrows as he was a Gap shooter. I shot the arrows with the bow until I was close to a weak spine.
I didn't like long the arrows. I had a new great friend Tim that has forgotten more about Traditional Archery then I may ever learn. He had me paper tune the arrows. We were able to cut the arrow length to just past my draw length and still get good arrow flight. Tim had many field tip of differnent wieghts. This was done with trial and error. Tim however knew exactly what to look for when I was shooting. Nothing can come close to having a knowlegable person with you. Plus you make new friends.
Tim is about 40 minutes away from me. I find it hard to get over to where he lives. However, every time we get together, I have a great time and learn something new.
Martin
First off....forget the "Pro Shops". If you have a shop to got to that knows about Trad gear consider yourself lucky. If not, you're like most of us and end up having to do it yourself. This is the best place for info. Lot's of good, experienced people here.
1.) Look up above at the sponsors list and go to Big Jims Bow Company. He has blemished GT 35/55 for about $42. They're great arrows to get started with. Don't cut them unless necessary. Cutting them will make them stiffer.
2.) Forget the 100 grn. tips. You may use them for something like 3D but not much else. Think of the broadheads you'll end up using. You'll end up wanting to match them. Heavier gives better penetration. Penetration is GOOD. I'd get points from 125 to 200 grn. Heavier tip will weaken spine.
The length of the arrow, and weight of the tip is how you tune the arrow. That and brace height are pretty much it. So don't cut too quick. Harbor Freight sells a little cut off saw for about $25. Get it and you don't need to take them to someone else. Welcome, good luck, and the most impotant thing....HAVE FUN. :archer2:
QuoteOriginally posted by joekeith:
First off....forget the "Pro Shops". If you have a shop to got to that knows about Trad gear consider yourself lucky. If not, you're like most of us and end up having to do it yourself. This is the best place for info. Lot's of good, experienced people here.
1.) Look up above at the sponsors list and go to Big Jims Bow Company. He has blemished GT 35/55 for about $42. They're great arrows to get started with. Don't cut them unless necessary. Cutting them will make them stiffer.
2.) Forget the 100 grn. tips. You may use them for something like 3D but not much else. Think of the broadheads you'll end up using. You'll end up wanting to match them. Heavier gives better penetration. Penetration is GOOD. I'd get points from 125 to 200 grn. Heavier tip will weaken spine.
The length of the arrow, and weight of the tip is how you tune the arrow. That and brace height are pretty much it. So don't cut too quick. Harbor Freight sells a little cut off saw for about $25. Get it and you don't need to take them to someone else. Welcome, good luck, and the most impotant thing....HAVE FUN. :archer2:
You guys are right, I've been staring at these stupid charts, and not even looking at what ultimately matters. I was only looking for field points and not realizing that the arrows others (outside of this forum) recommended are below the GPP of 8-10. So I guess the way I'm reading things (without calculators and chart), if I have a heavy tip (175gr say...) and a stiff arrow I should be good since the heavier tip reduces overall stiffness of the arrow.
After looking at the Stu Miller calculator and doing some things for myself I'm coming more familiar with what is required.
It's still a little discouraging with the differences in the way manufacturer's mark their arrows. GT's may be the end game for me, but in the meantime I might pick up some different arrows to see how things go.
According to the numbers, and I'd like to check what others think as well, so chime in:
CE Pildriver 350 @ 225gr tip
CE Piledriver 250 @ 150gr tip
CE Maxima Hunter 350 @ 225gr tip
CE Predator II 4560 @ 175gr tip
CE Predator II 6075 @ 225gr tip
CE Mayhem Hunter 250 @ 150gr tip
CE Mutiny 350 @ 250gr tip
CE Mutiny 250 @ 175gr tip
Now being completely new to Stu's calculator, he nailed my longbow @ 65.2 dynamic spine required. All of the arrows I listed fall within 2-5lbs of that number.
They assume 3x4" feathers, I was wondering if someone from the real, uncalculated world would sound off if those arrows sound ridiculous or semi-decent.
I know they're all CE, unfortunately they seem to be the bane of everyone's existence around here, popular with the wheel folks.
Where I was confused before was the call for a .500 spined arrow, but all of the spine deflection numbers for CE arrows are lower than.500, unless the numbers game is being played again. The AMO deflection on the above arrows range from .278 to .345.
Thanks again for the advice!
Chris PM me, the little envelope with 2 people holding hands in the post box. I know lots of towns over there. I go to Beecrofts all the time, fish in Cassayunna lake, go to the fair, used to have friends in Arglye. I am only half hour or so away. If you want to hook up, let me know. I have plenty of carbons here and can get you set up with what you need. Than when you buy, you could get shafts and vanes and I could even make them up for you. Let me know! Shawn
QuoteOriginally posted by Shawn Leonard:
Chris PM me, the little envelope with 2 people holding hands in the post box. I know lots of towns over there. I go to Beecrofts all the time, fish in Cassayunna lake, go to the fair, used to have friends in Arglye. I am only half hour or so away. If you want to hook up, let me know. I have plenty of carbons here and can get you set up with what you need. Than when you buy, you could get shafts and vanes and I could even make them up for you. Let me know! Shawn
PM Sent.
Just received the bow, it's a beautiful piece of work. Strung it up already and the weight isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be.
Chris, I shoot Carbon Express shafts almost exclusively and all of those in your list will be way too stiff regardless of how much weight you put up front. Go with the GTs as suggested for your first set.
You mentioned not putting on a nock point...DON'T do that unless you want to lose an eye!!!!
Best of luck, have fun.
QuoteOriginally posted by beachbowhunter:
Chris, I shoot Carbon Express shafts almost exclusively and all of those in your list will be way too stiff regardless of how much weight you put up front. Go with the GTs as suggested for your first set.
You mentioned not putting on a nock point...DON'T do that unless you want to lose an eye!!!!
Best of luck, have fun.
Thanks!, someone said to not set a nock point and "test" it first, I forget who mentioned that in this post (I didn't look back). I'll be sure to set one. No eye loss needed today.
Hey,
Just wait till you discover the wonderful world of wood arrows...... :bigsmyl:
I think that bow is just screaming for wood arrows....
:archer2:
Welcome
Make sure to rest when your tired. So as not to develop any bad habits that can arise under undo strain.7C
PM sent.
Most welcome WS. Wealth of info & tried n true hunter experience to choose from. Plenty of different opinions but we get along. Not everyone shoots recurves, nor LB's, nor 45# so value opinion accordingly. One thing for sure, nobody here would give bad info on purpose. Good luck.