By the end of April the first week in May I'm getting an Old Town Guide 146 Canoe. It can carry 700#, That's more then I'll ever put in it.
This is for bowfishing and to scout the rivers in Sam Houston NF or any other WMA that has water and Hogs, Deer, small game...
Saranca 146 Old Town (http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/generalFamily/saranac_146.html) . Tell Me what kind You have and any tips You would like to Share..
maybe get an outrigger if you are going to bowfish out of it.
I guess I ment stabalizer ..not out rigger, sorry got the perfect storm in my head haha.....
Dry bags are handy. Also, I make short tethers with quick clips on the ends for bows, stands and such. Industrial velcro attached to the sides is great for small dry boxes and tackle boxes. Those gripper things that grab onto trees are much better than anchors if you have flooded timber. Rob
Sal if you do a search for bowfishing boats you can get an idea of the stabilizer set ups. I know a few months ago they had a few threads on the subject.
Outriggers is the term. You can make some out of lumber and PVC pipe with caps on the ends. I have a 17'3" Old Town Tripper and I believe it will take much more weight than that, around 1,200#. A long 6' paddle is useful for paddling standing up too.
For scouting don't use the outriggers.
Mystic outrigger would be nice.I have an Old Town Camper 16'and have put many miles on it.Get you some portage pads (worth their wgt. in gold)and good paddles and if you canoe camp some nice bags or some type of dry box.Have fun and enjoy I know I have.Kip
I can tell you from experience not to lean over too far especially if you can't swim.
I like it a lot.
I have a Predator C160, it is a little heavy but very stable. I just bought mine and I am looking for a quality trailer so that I can manage this beast by myself. Please cross-pollinate any good information you might find out on a trailer, if you should get one??
If you are going to ground it much, consider adding a keel guard strip (eg KeelGuard or Keel Shield). This is easier to do when it is new and clean; it helps to use a heat gun on the keel strip as you stretch it around the curve of the stem. Saves a lot of wear on the keel from rocks and sand when you come to shore or drag it over shallows.
Old Towns are a solid dependable canoe, thats why 80% of the outfitters on the rivers of america use them. Outriggers are a must for bowfishing, dry bags of varied size a plus for all outings and portage padds if you'll have to carry it very far. Buckster trailers are offered by a variety of companies, go to canoe and Kyak magazine. but if you have a nice small cargo trailer it works great also. I use a Grumman aluminum 17' guides boat for extended trips and a mad dog 14' for river running. Love them both. Good luck and have fun.
With the center console design it will be tougher to get on and off truck tracks on tour own. I use the wood yoke in mine for that and portages. A set of wheels canoe caddy (http://www.pvcworkshop.com/SubmittedProjects.htm) is invaluable. You can order a set or build your own.
I have a Old Town 146 with cane seats. It has been a great fishing boat and for light tripping.
I had installed a plywood yoke in the center for portage and drilled 3/16" holes along the gunnels and installed para cord to tie in the gear. Never used outriggers.
I have some crappy coleman canoe but I have an old towne kayak and Ive used old towne canoes and they are saa-weeeett. some tips: if you drop your paddle let it go, wear a life preserver, and leave your wallet and cell in the car or package it water tight. canoes are not really thats stable so bowfish from your knees. also dont ever take em in BIG water like a bay or something, you'll get swamped.
Sorry should have said fining spots to BowFisher from the banks, Or on the knee shots...
I am thinking of making the PVC Outriggers for it. I also want a cart for it..
QuoteOriginally posted by fisherick:
I have a Old Town 146 with cane seats. It has been a great fishing boat and for light tripping.
I had installed a plywood yoke in the center for portage and drilled 3/16" holes along the gunnels and installed para cord to tie in the gear. Never used outriggers.
Can You post pix?
QuoteOriginally posted by maineac:
With the center console design it will be tougher to get on and off truck tracks on tour own. I use the wood yoke in mine for that and portages. A set of wheels canoe caddy (http://www.pvcworkshop.com/SubmittedProjects.htm) is invaluable. You can order a set or build your own.
I was thinking of taking out the center because it's for smaller/lighter PPL then Me.. Maybe get a nice piece of Osage to make a Yoke, This way I can still add a Pop-in seat..
I would suggest seats with a backrest and outriggers. Here is a picture of my daughter and I in our 14 footer with outriggers. Impossible to tip over with them on. I also wear a back support strap for long trips. The other people in the 17 footer behind us tipped their canoe over 2 times on this trip.
(http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/44499/2419864990049369050S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://family.webshots.com/photo/2419864990049369050FvJtNH)
As you could tell by my username, my other passion is canoes. I own 4 of them, and they all have their specific use. However, this one
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff373/bartcanoe/Canoe/HorsehoeLakeMar11003-1.jpg)
is the prettiest and probably the most appealing to a traditional archery. I guess you could say it is traditional, a 1954 Wood and Canvas Old Town HW.
I'd recommend for learning canoe paddling the book, "The Path of the Paddle" by Bill Mason.
I've never actually seen the boat you purchased, but looking at the specs, it looks like you have a real stable boat (3ft wide with a flat-bottom). That said, what your boat has is a high initial stability, but probably a poor secondary stability. In other words hard to turnover, but when it gets to the tipping point it goes over fast.
I'd recommend not skimping on paddles. You'd be surprised what a few ounces will mean at the end of the day of paddling.
There really is a lot to the sport of canoeing and I could go on forever, but learning the four basic strokes; forward, backward, draw and pry goes a long way and can deal with a lot of situations.
Don't forget the motor !
Working on a cedar strip canoe. If the weather warms I can finish in short order.
Great, and interesting thread. I always wanted to try some canoeing but there is just never enough time.
Mystic I hunt the SHNF and fish back there for crappie as well. We allways fish back there in stublefield and I use an Oldtown Guide 147. Great boats and perfect for back there. I usaully take my canoe and a couple of kayaks on our fishing trips. I'd Be happy to show you where we see pigs and catch those crappie. You'll love the boat but I think tyour right for stabilizing it for bow fishing
bartcanoe, that's a fine canoe you've got there! I've got drool on my computer!
I have a 12 ft Quachita that I've had for about 30 years and have fooled around in a bunch. Build yourself some outriggers. Get a trolling motor and a good battery (MUCH MUCH better than poling or paddling when your carping). If you want to use it to access deer or other big game get an old piece of carpet to lay in the bottom - bang that paddle on the bottom an hour before daylight on a still morning and you might as well honk the car horn. Play around in it utill you are comfortable standing up with your outriggers - then carp away!
R
QuoteOriginally posted by klight:
Mystic I hunt the SHNF and fish back there for crappie as well. We allways fish back there in stublefield and I use an Oldtown Guide 147. Great boats and perfect for back there. I usaully take my canoe and a couple of kayaks on our fishing trips. I'd Be happy to show you where we see pigs and catch those crappie. You'll love the boat but I think tyour right for stabilizing it for bow fishing
That's the spots I want to see.... I'll PM You dates.
NO MOTORS...Canoes for Me is Paddling power...
Your more than welcome to try my boat out if you like. There are some good spots to hunt pigs way back there that are easier to access by canoe. You wont run into as many other hunters that way for sure.
I have the Old Town Osprey in O. D. green with dark stained seats and yoke. Awesome canoe for duck hunting.
I've got an Old Towne 147 guide and used it primarily for duck hunting. As stated, great initial stability, easy paddling. I would not stand up in it but that's me. I've been using it for paddling with my young scouts (sons) and it's been great. I like the riggers shown above and would add them for bigger water with the boys. I've only had it tipped once, when a duck hunting partner with no canoe experience dumped us while I was stepping into the boat. Should be great for what you want.
Sean
It may get some getting used to; but there isn't really a need for the outriggers. Unless you have some mobility issues.
Once you get used to your boat, standing and shooting is no problem.
I can shoot standing in my Starfire canoe and it's really a tender boat.
Jason
Canoes are more abut going than doing when it comes to bowfishing. Use it to get up a creek mouth you cant walk into and get out and shoot from the bank. You could also try to build a fire on the dark side of a lake to hunt at night. Use the canoe to get you and your gear over there. Sure you can stand up in the middle of a canoe and take a shot but all the people I know that are serious about bow fishing only hunt at night standing on a platform 2 or three feet off the water and then they light the place up like a football stadium to swarm insects to chum up fish.
Outriggers have their purposes but they also have some big disadvantages too. In the surf (Ocean)they are a necessity on a canoe. If you have kids fishing in flat water they are good training wheels to keep you dry, for an adult in a lake they seem like overkill. That and I like to go into cypress swamps and flooded timber so there they are not of any use, an impediment.
That canvas covered Old Town is sweet! A real trophy!
I've got a Mad River Duck Hunter. I made an outrigger out of a 2x4 and two 5 gallon buckets with lids. I clamp them to the edge with some c-clamps. They are a little awkward, but it's stable enough to stand up in and cast or shoot a bow. Without them, this particular model is not stable at all. I got a huge beaver out of it last year.
I've got an old town Osprey, 14' 38" wide. I can kneel in it and lean over the side setting traps and stand up and shoot carp out of it. Love this canoe..
Nice one! Bartcanoe
Here's a cedarstrip I a made a few years back. Quiet and stable, though not quite as rugged and tough as an Old Town. Still an alfull lot of fun the mke and paddle around- especially in the Fall...
No Pic
Canoes, ya gotta love em. That's me in my 12' wood and canvas canoe next to a 26" Voyager North Canoe.
(http://www.shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/Lake_trip15.jpg)
A friend and I in my Birch bark.
(http://www.shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/Birch_Bark_hunters.jpg)
bartcanoe, that is a real beauty. I once owned a 1926 Old Town wood and canvas beauty I restored. I sold it as most of our rivers are very rocky and we didn't do much lake use.
Many good thoughts here especially about the dry bags and tethering things to the canoe, Don't forget a PFD. :thumbsup: :archer2:
I've worked for a system of Wilderness Camps (alternative schools for kids in trouble) for 30 years we often took groups of kids out canoeing for a month at a time. One of our vice presidents, Shep Young discovered the "Dry box" and purchased all the forms and materials. Shep has been building these for years. Take my word for it, if you want it dry and you want to find it after a tump the "Dry Box is the way to go.
Dry Box: http://www.dryboxs.com/
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r243/7Lakes/DryBox.jpg)
16' Mad River Intrigue - tippy but usable for bowfishing. Once you practice a little bit and get your "sea legs" under you, it's perfectly possible to shoot standing up in a canoe. Until then, warm water or wetsuit might be in order. PFD at all times assumed.
I have the 17' Penobscot and love it. I can solo it by flipping it around and using the front seat to paddle from for better leverage.
I can put 3 or 4 people in it or 2 people and a weeks worth of gear.
I would not want a canoe any shorter than 16 ft. unless all I was going to navigate was boulder gardens. The longer and heavier canoes often track better and draft less water.
Short canoes require more work to keep straight.
Even though they claim the 146 will carry 700 pounds, that is actually the load that will just about sink it. I think you would be happier with a 16 or 17 footer, and maybe one that is a bit lighter weight. Never know, maybe one day you may want to go somewhere fun with it.
(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/pavanldb/DSC01123inthecanoe-1.jpg)
I am also looking at used canoes on Craig's list. I work for Academy so I can get the Old Town for under $400.00, Plus it will be NEW. When the time comes I may just get a used one if the price and size is right.
Sal, I misread you original email. I thought you already had the canoe.
If you're set on Old Town because of the discount, I'd recommend the Penobscot 16. I own one, and in my opinion it is the most versatile canoe you could possibly buy. I've owned mine for about 12 years, and it has seen thousands of miles. I regularly stand in mine, but it takes some getting used to. It can be paddled either tandem or solo, and I've paddled up to Class 2 rapids and it has a decent turn of speed on flatwater.
The Old Town Guide 147 is a good boat for the price too. I have had mine for 12 years now. I can stand up and cast a fly rod and shoot a bow out of it. If I have the right person in the canoe we can both stand up and fish. The only time I ever got dumped out was when me and my wife took our 110 pound dog. :D
Yup, Penobscot 16 was my first choice when I found the discontinued Mad River Intrigue on sale for a price I couldn't pass up.
We don't sale that module, just the Guide 147 & Saranca 146 and Pelican Dakota
Look at Cliff Jacobson's book on canoeing and camping. It's thorough and has lots of useful information.
I have an Old Town 16' Laker that's about 35 years old. I need to get it back in the water this year. I miss it.
Richard
Hard to find 1 canoe that will do everything. I have an old town 17' Tripper and a 25' fiberglass freighter. I actually need another one in between those two. LOL
Wood and canvas are absolutely the most beautiful and quietest but the four rivers we basically do all our hunting on here are too fast and rocky for canvas. Lose bowhunting time patching!
Old Town are good, tough, and flexible. Haven't had to patch it yet and have had it for a few years.
Dry boxs are good but if you get one of the plastic canoes get a floatation kit for the canoe also. Learned that one the hard way after having a old town classic wood and canvas for years. The ABS boats don't float.
It takes a bit of work to get a submerged boat to the bank in a fast moving river, and then a bit more to get it empty.
Love that classic Bartcanoe, wish I still had mine.
PM sent
forgot to mention.
When I bowfish from a canoe I like to use float jugs attached to my bowstring. I shoot then send the jug overboard. That way if I hit something big and it takes a weird move I'm not going anywhere. Just follow the jug and let them wear out.
Good luck. Canoeing is my first addiction...
My Dad bought me an Old Town Tripper touring canoe over 30 years ago. I have lost count of the trips it has been on. Big, heavy and will carry over 700 lbs. It has taken a ton of use, and some abuse (when it was loaned out), and is still a rugged water craft. A friend and I took it over a small waterfall in the Bangor Canoe race a "few" years back, and the canoe was A-Ok, unlike us...LOL!
Do not loan out your canoe! The fat SOB that USED to be married to my sister dropped it off a moving car, 'cause he was too lazy to tie it on with ropes, and thought he could hold onto to it through the car window. Idiot! The canoe dropped at 30 MPH and scratched and dinged it up, but nothing broke and she is still in A-1 shape!
I am all for the Adirondack Guide Boat, I try to make one or two a year (cedar strip) they become an addiction to make. They are very stable but with their width (upwards of 40") they require oars and you can use a sneak paddle. Depending on length you can get a ton in these lake pick-ups and they move right along and can do all sorts of water, but that is just me. The down side they weigh just under 100# but with a cart and one that is 16' no big deal to get around.
I love canoeing...I have a Bell Northwind...bought it slightly used from outfitting and retail store up in foothills. Someone had it for a Summer and then traded or sold for another. It is Royalex but only weighs 60lbs which is light for a 16.5 boat in this rugged material. It was designed by David Yost and slices through the water like a dream...
He also designed a few for Sawyer, Swift and a handful of others....
I would second becoming very famililar with the canoe with multiple trips BEFORE I attempted to bow fish from it. Also look at both initial and secondary stability. I would prefer better secondary than initial...as if it feels solid standing or even moving around initially once you break that point of stability it is going to dump you suddenly. With good secondary stability it may feel a little touchy initially but gets progressively more difficult to roll to side as you continue. Now, it will still dump your butt in the cold water but you have warning...
Dry bags for any clothing or items that could get damaged.....tied into boat for retention and will also provide some flotation. Also test the loading of your canoe and figure out where the cooler and gear should go if carrying or how it handles and feels differently with empty and two people and then add a couple coolers for fish and refreshments with ice and you have another 200lbs in center area...actually many of the tripping/expedition rigs will gain stability as you load them slightly...I will sometimes add extra weight on purpose with water bladders to get it sitting a little lower for more stability especially when empty or first time paddlers.
Finally...go to Otterbox and get a good waterproof container for your wallet, cell phone and even camera...or another quality company. You will need it sooner or later as everyone dumps themselves. Usually in front of crowd and just when you think you got it mastered.
hahahaha
Woodworker, where would be a good place to find a how-to for building one of those cedar strip canoes? I really want to build my own boat and that sounds like it would be perfect for one guy and even better for 2. Thanks for starting this thread Mystic. The weather is starting to warm up here and has got me thinking about some river trips.
Spend the money for a good paddle. It will make a big difference.
For tripping in my OT Tripper we have float bags fore and aft and dry bags for our gear in the middle. My lab layed on the dry bags during the trip.
hardawaymike-
Get the book "Canoecraft" by Ted Moores. Lots of places to buy supplies, but his book is the best I've found for instructions on building a cedarstrip.
Can anyone post pix of Your set-up.. Canoe, dry bags, wet bags, paddles and so On.. What have You found to work best for You.. This may helps others as it will give Me ideas to try..
dpg is right on the money for books about canoe building look him up Ted has been up to quite a bit more and is very talented when it comes to wood working and getting his thoughts across.
Here's my canoe loaded for 5 days on the Johnday and a couple of other pics of the river. Again, I flipped the canoe around and paddled from the front seat for better leverage. I know from rafting that you want as much of the payload toward the center and low as possible but not so much that the front of the canoe comes out of the water as its more affected by wind and does not draft as well.
I have about 600 total lbs. in this load including myslef, with a woodstove, firewood, shelter, and necessary fishing, hunting, and camping gear. I used sealable buckets and bags for important items and allowed for woodstove and wood to get wet if the canoe went over, but all survival type stuff is sealed.
Hopefully these pics come through...
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/SteveBush1/canoe-1.jpg)
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/SteveBush1/calm_water.jpg)
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/SteveBush1/downstream.jpg)
I sat in front of the yellow bag, on the black seat whose backrest is folded down in the pic. I paddled with a cheap plastic paddle and had a spare (which I ended up needing when I got high centered in a rapid and lost my primary). As someone earlier said, get the better paddles as they make a difference. Some are scoop-shaped and are more efficient, and lighter, but expensive.
The blue bag is a dry duffle with my daily essentials like camera, snacks, maps, etc. so i can access easy right there in front of me.
Mysticguido, whatever you get you'll have fun and learn something, and whose to say, you might love your short canoe....that's all that matters is that you're happy. No judgement here. But my research and experience is that there's nowhere a 16ft. canoe can't go on a solo trip and its minimum for good all-around performance. I would highly recommend at least the 16 ft. and with the proper design for the type of water you'll be on.
Good luck..
Steve you use a kneeling thwart you installed or just use the brace and some knee pads...
that is one thing about my Northwind...love it but with the asymetrical hull design it does not paddle well backwards...so I have to put more weight towards bow to keep it down and out of wind or it will spin like a top. LOL
Hoping I win the Souris Quietco from paddling.net this month LOL
Brock,
You know, I was told I could take that wooden thwart out if I wanted to paddle from the back but I found, with the padded seat, that my thighs laid across the top of that wood just fine and I could even hook my legs around it for stability so I left it in place. I vowed to stay in the seat and not paddle from the kneeling position as I spent alot of time in fast, shallow stuff and needed to jump out regularly so had to have my feet ready to swing over the side.
You'll have to "slap leather", but a high-tec, light-weight paddle of the proper length is invaluable. I think mine was made by Iliad and was thrown in when I bought my first used Old Town Tripper. I gave it to a smallmouth fishing buddy after he lost one. When I went to replace it, I like to died when I discovered it was more than $100. I think mine was fiberglass, but you can get carbon now too. After a day on the water you'll appreciate it.
I used to own several canoes as well as several kayaks. Got rid of everything except my Mad River 14 ft single seat Guide canoe. A boat that does everything I want.
MysticG,
Here are some really old scanned pics. of my son and I on 3-4 day trips on the Shenandoah in a 17'3" Old Town Tripper. These were very rocky trip so paddles were cheap aluminum/plastic. All camping gear,fishing gear aboard.
Canoe loaded with two people and a dog. Note all gear below gunwales for stability.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/reddogge/Fishing/canoe-2.jpg)
Shot of float bag in front, dry bag middle, extra paddle lashed, canvas bag for gear that could get wet.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/reddogge/Fishing/Jeffbuck1983.jpg)
Shot of front float bag lashed in and my daughter on a fishing trip.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/reddogge/Fishing/Michelle1983.jpg)
Camp was two man tent and a nylon tarp.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/reddogge/Fishing/canoecamp.jpg)
Two dry bags for clothes, sleeping bags, food stored amidships.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/reddogge/Fishing/IMG_1471.jpg)
Fore and aft float bags deflated.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/reddogge/Fishing/IMG_1472_1.jpg)
We also carried a small Playmate cooler and an ammo box for wallet, keys, camera, etc.