Hey Guys,
I've been thinking a lot lately about shot placement on hogs from a stand after I lost a nice 150-170 boar recently. I thought that I put a great shot on him, in line with the front leg very slight quarter away at about 8-9 yards, from a 12 foot stand. I watched him run away from me for about 40 yards so I was certain I got a least 10" or more of penetration. He still wasn't able to get the arrow out when I lost the trail 200 yards or more later. Clearly not a great vital hit if he went that far. In looking back I think I hit him too high, and with the slight quarter I probably only got one lung. I have burned the images of the hog vitals into my mind but they are always perfectly broadside and from the ground. From elevation a 1/2 up shot may actually be 2/3 up and I'm curious how much penetration is sufficient on a medium (150) to larger (250-300) boar to get both lungs from a elevated spot. I realize there are many factors/variables involved but let's discuss. I lack the computer savy to superimpose images with vitals on here but I know some of you can. How about we try and get some pics of hogs from elevated shots and attempt to impose shot placements? I know I would at least find the discussion helpful. I've talked quite a bit with Terry and CK about this but lets make it a bigger discussion. Thanks and looking forward to hearing from some hog experts on this one.
It is not easy to make a good shot from a stand on a Hog unless the animal is fairly far away, the shield gets in the way and you are likely to get just one lung. A Hog can go a month on one lung; the animal is best hunted from the ground in my opinion.
Bjorn, while I agree that hunting from the ground is ideal, there are times when I'm hunting from a stand and I'd like to be able to make a better shot when I am. I know guys that hunt from stands and do it successfully, I guess I'm hoping to hear some of their thinking on the subject. I also like hunting them at night and, call me stupid, but I like being off the ground when it's dark.
I'm heading out for hogs in a couple of weeks; let's hear some educated opinions. My one and only hog hunt, I hit a big boar too high from an elevated stand and got almost no penetration due to the shield, so I'm thinking seriously about staying on the ground for my next hunt. :campfire:
Elevated shots at that close a range present very little margin for error. Better you let him get 15 yards or so if you can. You probably got only one lung. My opinion though
Texas, I don't blame you for wanting to be off the ground when it is dark-Hogs do become emboldened at night-what a rush!
Try to shoot lower and farther away to get better shot angle and lower your stand to three feet if you want to be off the ground-they can't jump very high. LOL!
Boy...I've killed a bunch from a stand....and the way I see it...there's no real difference in kill percentage from my perspective. My kill ratio is probably about the same either way. Heck, I've even killed a couple shooting uphill at them.
The only real difference in aiming at them is if they are real close to you at somewhat of a steep angle. Most folks want to aim at them mid way up like a whitetail...but that is too high to start with. Hogs are more barrel shaped and there's more underneath than you can see....so if they are close aim 1/3rd up instead of 1/2.
If you are worried about 'the shield'....a shield that will really hinder penetration on lighter weight bows....here again is your target area to completely miss the shield.....its not a big area either.
Click Here (http://www.tradgang.com/videos/tg/hog1.wmv)
So...if you want to hit the soft spot, its much easier from the ground, or having them out from your stand a bit and not having your stand real high.....however, there's not a lot of margin for error to completely miss the shield either way.
If you are 10 - 15 feet up and the hog is 15 yards away....you've still got a pretty good view of the entire body....its the steeper angles that hide more of what's underneath. Course, I don't like steep angles on deer either.
If your set up will allow....and you are just after hogs....8-12 feet is good medicine.
Exactly what I was saying Terry, only you did it much better.
I agree, IMO, the best shot is from the ground. I'm by no means an expert on this, but my most successful hog shots have been from the ground at a quartering away animal. My point of aim is the armpit on the opposite side.
I shot a hog from a treestand almost three weeks ago. The stand was about 6' off the ground and the hog stood about 6 yards away. I waited for the quartering away shot that has worked in the past and aimed for opposite side armpit. The arrow entered high and exited into the elbow (shattering it) on the opposite side. With that shot I got one lung and enough of his plumbing to put him down.
Wow Terry, thanks for showing us that. I had no idea the sheild on a hog was that hard? That sounded like plywood when you were thumping on it! I hope someday I get a chance to go after hogs, and I'll remember that........aim low.
SEMO. .....all hog shields are not that hard or thick. ......you don't see many quite like that. That one was almost 2 inches thick.....and I could see the shield from 75 yards away it was so defined. He looked like he was toting saddlebags.
Or shoulder pads... I know you shoot heavy bows Terry... what poundage were you shooting?
Terry and I have talked a lot about the set up for a big pig. I try to have a set up that will give me a chance if the big boy decides to show up. The last two boars I shot with my set up were between 150-170 (what I would consider medium) but didn't appear to have massive shields, though I'm sure there was some. I was very happy with the penetration and am certain that a well placed shot would have had enough to hit through the vitals. I love it when I hit the soft spot behind the elbow but there are too many factors in the field to feel that I am always going to make that shot. I want to be able to give myself the highest probability for success which I believe is above the front leg (which is likely through the shield).
Does anybody have some pics from a stand? I did a quick search online but didn't find anything very useful. I think if we actually get a pic up of a hog from a 8-12 ft stand we can discuss placement easier.
I don't have any pics from a stand...but I've got an illustration that may help on the shape of hogs and the deception of perception you may have from a high stand at a steep angle....
Oh,...all my hogs have been shot with 60-70# Bows, and most all of them with 3 and 4 blade heads....and all of those were either pass throughs or jammed in the off shoulder...cept those 'shoot out' hogs at Solana this year that I slipped the arrows right by the cheek and entered inside the shoulder to the goodies.
This was copied from a thread I did earlier....
This might be a great opportunity to show some shot placement photos. Ray and I discussed this on the way back, and by showing these pics someone may save themselves some grief. It shows just how forward you can shoot a hog because of the front end bone structure.
Remember, this 300#er only ran 30 yards, and this shot did get both lungs and the heart......
This pic reveals that 'Bride of Horse Tail' was slightly quartering away. It also shows how far forward it exited without hitting any bone. This picture however is deceiving on how low on the body the shot placement was.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/hogshotplacement2.jpg)
This pic shows the true elevation on the body...and makes the shot 'low and tight'.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/hogshotplacement3.jpg)
This is why when from a stand at a steep angle if you aim mid way up...you are too high to start with....hope this helps show what I mean by what all is hiding underneath.
Great information Terry. Thanks for sharing.
I've only hit them from elevated tripods, and aimed low. One in the cervical spine and the other right through the boiler room. Were both shots excellent shots? Dunno, but that's where I was aiming. Lucky, maybe.
Shoot a high FOC arrow and enough bow while you are at it.
Hogs are not the Abrams tanks everyone makes them out to be, but bad shot placement certainly adds to the mystique.
Don't psych yourselves out guys......190# right at dark. 60# PLX with a 700+gr arrow tipped with a sharper than (BEEP!) Grizzly.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/alexeinspruch/th_photo-2.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/alexeinspruch/?action=view¤t=photo-2.jpg)
Terry, what do you think the width shoulder to shoulder is on a big pig like that? Now how much more distance is there when at an angle and shooting through more of the body?
I've taken a bunch from stands by feeders. Since they are eating corn I just wait until they are around 10 - 12 yards away if I can help it and then aim low on a broadside shot. When hunting hogs I am constantly telling myself to aim low and forward so it sticks in my head when the time comes. lol
Same with mine, Mint.
Marty told me aim low and tight to the leg and you will kill them every time. Seemed if I did my part they did not go far at all.
I like short stands in heavy cover for pigs. I'm talking 6-8 ft up is all. That keeps the angle flater. Shots very from real close to 15 yds or so. I'm only shooting about 52# these days because of my neck surgery but maximize my penetration with heavy arrows and high foc.
I've killed a few of hogs over the years and have interveiwed a couple of guys that run pig hunting places. There is one thing they all say. The exit wound is most important and then use a big broadhead to get it.
Straight up from the knuckle about 2" and it's golden or I guess I should say "RED"
Mike
I agree with the idea of getting an exit wound. That's why I come back to what the actual distance is when you add in elevation. A big hog gets bigger when you are shooting down and through instead of just through.
Not to disagree, but, if I scramble his heart and lungs, no exit wound needed. In fact, his running away with a razor blade gyrating about in his vitals is even more damaging. Whether the thoracic cavity is filled with blood or the ground is covered with it is the same in my book. Once the gas is gone, it's pretty much game over. Tracking may be more difficult though.
High Point...if I read your post correct....you have killed a total of two hogs correct?
Et all...pass throughs are always best...either through the vitals or guts....more damage all the way through...and chance of more blood. Yes...if you scramble heart and lungs....no trail is needed in MOST cases...I agree. In that case you don't HAVE to have a blood trail....BUT!
I'd MUCH rather have an exit wound whether vitals were hit or not. Not all hunting areas are golf course open....blood and other internal sign needs to be on the ground or there abouts if all possible.
I have seen 1st hand a perfect shot and a hog lost....cept a 2nd party of hunters found the heart shot animal by happenstance....TBG Squirrel Hunt 2004 at The Paradise made by a perfect shot with a 2 blade that didn't pass through and was found by a pair of hunters that lucked up on the downed hog the same day saving the kill.
I have been on many a group hunt blood trails...be it numerous TX Sweats....numerous Solana Ranch hunts...more than one Ray's Hog Haven hunts....The Paradise (don't know how many).....other SC area hunts....FL group hunts...and I've seen my share of blood trails. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few. Not to mention the blood trails I've been on of friends.
Pass through shots FAR and AWAY yield more meat in the cooler.....by FAR from what I have experienced.
Here's a little sampling of stand shot hogs from a weekend hunt. I too was told long ago that hogs shot from stand was a no no....I also learned that those that told me that never shot many hogs from a stand.
These were all killed at Marty's the same weekend...from 15 foot stands.....the 1st two were from 15 foot ladder stands with me standing. Black boar was about 20 yards and the calico was about 15 and trotting, both double lunged and down in short order. I shot 3 arrows at hogs that weekend....and all 3 were double lunged and down quickly.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/okeeterry4n2n.jpg)
This hog was shot also from a 15 foot ladder with me sitting....
(http://tradgang.com/tg/images7/mowawk35.jpg)
ALL had exit wounds even though I heard them crash. The blood trail wasn't really nessessary.....but was nice since they went down it some really thick palmetto thickets and a swamp. All 3 were killed with Wensel Woodsmens.
I went back to Marty's and killed my biggest boar to date from a 12 foot stand with me sitting...got one lung for sure and the heart...with a pass through...4 blade Zwickey No Mercy...
(http://tradgang.com/tg/hogs/blockhead.jpg)
Tree Stands are deadly on hogs if you do your part...don't let anyone tell you any different!!!
I'd say that's a true statement on any animal, not just a hog. I'd whole lot rather have 2 holes leaving blood on the ground than just one.
Even if it's not a complete pass through and through where the arrow stays in the animal, but there's still 2 holes for the blood to exit.
I've never even had a chance to hunt hogs, but the more you all discuss it the worse I wanna go.
How do they get that shield anyway, by rubbing? Or does it just grow that way.
QuoteOriginally posted by SEMO_HUNTER:
How do they get that shield anyway, by rubbing?
Genetics.....designed by God to protect the vitals from tusk during fighting over women.
Funny...we didn't get the shield option aint it. :biglaugh:
Yeah, you got that right! :knothead:
I'll be dang, I always thought it was caused by rubbing up against trees, rocks, ect. Shows ya how little I know about hogs, too bad we don't have em around here where I live or they would be on the menu 24/7.
QuoteOriginally posted by highpoint forge:
Hogs are not the Abrams tanks everyone makes them out to be,
I agree to a point....but having shot a few.....been on trails shot by many and taking notes....I have a different view....and listening to some on a web site doesn't erase the fact that a 45# whitetail set up can give a hunter FITS on large boar hogs.....large shielded boars aren't 'push overs' like whitetails.
Mix in a lightweight bow....the wrong head, not properly sharpened head...not so great arrow flight...a large boar flinching at impact(which they often do)...mud clinging to hair...any two of the above together and your impact may represent that of a tank.
I don't want anyone psyched out either...but I want them to be prepared. :campfire:
Add a little adrenaline, and they can turn into a tank with a spare engine.
sir, i am prepared, sir - lemme at 'em! :)
terry ain't steered me wrong yet, and it's with his knowledge and patience that i got my hogs.
my wensels are *sharp*, my 55# 'hawk has a new string and hush puppies that are 'broken in' and rarin' to go, got plenty of thermacell, sir ....
QuoteOriginally posted by Bonebuster:
Add a little adrenaline, and they can turn into a tank with a spare engine.
That brings me to another thought....
If you shoot a hog in a group...and its not the best shot in the world.....best hope he separates himself from the group...otherwise...you better hope you have two holes....and even better if its a multi blade two holes. If they run off with 'the bunch'...they will carry him a long way. Much longer than if he goes solo.
Again...just another note I've gathered along the way.
Terry, I plan on going on my first hog hunt in a few months. I will be shooting a #55 Tomahawk, from the ground. At #55 2 blade or 3 blade?
forgot to add I going to try to shoot a smaller hog 75-120lb for good eating.
QuoteOriginally posted by no nothing:
Terry, I plan on going on my first hog hunt in a few months. I will be shooting a #55 Tomahawk, from the ground. At #55 2 blade or 3 blade?
i can tell ya just what terry has told me over and over again - WOODSMAN!
no nothing....what is your draw length?
Rob...yep....settin on ready....can't wait to hunt with you and Doug Campbell in less than a month...
Hey...where are YOUR tree stand kill pics?
28"
If you can get a Wensel Woodsman sharp....run with it.....if you can't...send it to me...and I'll get it ready for ya.
Thanks very nice of you!
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
[QB] High Point...if I read your post correct....you have killed a total of two hogs correct?
Two with the bow in 2010. We also hunt with, ahem, assault rifles, holosights and PVS Gen3 night vison monocles all night long on the 7000 ac ranch I hunt on. 36 killed this past Thurs-Sun. The count since mid 2010 is 273. We ATTEMPT to control the population by cheating with guns, yes. Most weekends.
I've seen arrows and most bullets imaginable go in and through hogs, looked for through thick stuff and recovered all but about 10.
I've also examined from the inside the hits on the large hogs and especially my two.
Tally of 50+ counting all methods used thus far in 2011, but yes only two with the bow, which are the only two worth mentioning.
I whole heartily agree about the two holes. I have experienced, and again I don't have a whole bunch, if a hog doesn't go down in sight or within 100 yards then the tracking job can get really difficult really fast in thick cover and recovering the animal will become darn near impossible if the animal isn't bleeding good.
I shot a hog last year and got a great double lung, pass through hit and the boar went 135 yards before tipping over. The crazy part was he hardly bled because the fat and the beginnings of what would have been his shield sealed the wound shut tight. The blood spots I was finding were small (about 1/8" diameter) droplets and they were spaced quite a ways apart from one another. What I was finding more of then blood was a clear liquid, which I presume was saliva.
I too have to remind myself to shoot forward. I have a boar 3D target setup in some brush and it always looks like I've shot the animal in the neck when I shoot it, but when the arrows are pulled they are sticking right in the boiler room. After so much effort in conditioning ourselves to shoot the proper location on deer, the kill shot for hogs seems so unnatural.
This is a good thread. I'm enjoying it. I find hogs to be fascinating creatures to chase. :campfire:
I've posted before about texasboars.com, but their hog anatomy and "autopsy" videos are as good as I have seen. Watch them.
Hey Rob, best of luck!
I hope you are face to face with a hog so big, you feel "undergunned", but through your skill and preperation it all works out in the end! :D
Deer hunting is by far my favorite because of the mystique and honor, but there is no substitute for the smell of swine on the wind!
I just wanna` go huntin`!!!
Just getting a chance to check back on this thread, loving it so far. I'm dying to get a nice broadside pic from a stand or tripod on here to discuss. I'll have to find one tomorrow though, if anyone has one please share!
Broadside to slightly quartering form 10' tripod:
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/alexeinspruch/Hunting%202009-2010/th_02c35923.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/alexeinspruch/Hunting%202009-2010/?action=view¤t=02c35923.jpg)
Through the shoulder (removed) and into the spine:
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/alexeinspruch/Hunting%202009-2010/th_DSC00260.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/alexeinspruch/Hunting%202009-2010/?action=view¤t=DSC00260.jpg)
Lots of good advice here. Don't think about it too hard. Every hog I've killed has been from an elevated position.
+2, as much fun as hunting whitetails if you ask me......
Thanks all for the info,photos & the links.
Great stuff to prepare for my upcoming hunts
From a tree I shoot at the point of the "corner" the leg makes at the body on a broadside pig. I look about 4" above the point actually. If the hog is closer I shoot for the point.The angle changes and you can`t see the bottom of the pig and shooting at that point will get you there and its easier to shoot at a spot rather than black. May sound crazy but it works for me.I`ve never shot a lot of poundage and usually BIG two blades or a woodsman . I have killed some with a snuffer but was using very heavy arrows for the lbs I shoot.I`m betting 90% of the pigs lost by bowhunters were hit to high.RC
My hog stand this up comming season is all of 4 feet off the ground in the thickest dang cover I've ever seen. You've got to crawl into it on your belly for 15 feet! the shots will all be at less than 8 yards, and I have had 2 occasions now when the hogs have started to walk in on me while I am in there clearing some shooting lanes and doing some pruning! I am not looking to take a 200+ # boar (though i know they are there) just an 80-150# eater. Since the shots are so close and I am not 10+ feet off the ground is there anything I should be looking for or thinking of? Aside from banging a bow limb into a tree?
L.R.
RC, could you explain your point of aim more? I'm not quite sure I know exactly where you mean. Are you shooting at the point were the leg meets the body, as in as low as you possibly could. Or are you shooting 4" up from the bottom of the chest? Thanks
Good photo highpoint! Click on it to enlarge... the arrow is approximately half way up the body and hit SPINE!
I shot two small hogs from elevated stands at less than 10 yards. Both shots were perfect "whitetail placement" - which I've since learned is much too high. The clean kill zone on a hog is not much large than a grapefruit and is low between the front legs.
QuoteOriginally posted by Lone Ranger:
My hog stand this up comming season is all of 4 feet off the ground in the thickest dang cover I've ever seen. You've got to crawl into it on your belly for 15 feet! the shots will all be at less than 8 yards, and I have had 2 occasions now when the hogs have started to walk in on me while I am in there clearing some shooting lanes and doing some pruning! I am not looking to take a 200+ # boar (though i know they are there) just an 80-150# eater. Since the shots are so close and I am not 10+ feet off the ground is there anything I should be looking for or thinking of? Aside from banging a bow limb into a tree?
L.R.
snakes...when you belly crawl :)
I shoot a little above the elbow on pigs. RC
Study the anatomy photos of hogs and then
aim for where you want the arrow to come out then it'll die... all you got to do it hit that spot..
An old man told me that more than 50 years ago and it has never let me down, if I did my part.
QuoteOriginally posted by RC:
The angle changes and you can`t see the bottom of the pig
Yep....that's what I was saying earlier...due to the barrel shape on steep angles.