I am bareshaft tuning some new carbons and am having trouble getting the brass inserts to hold secure enough not to pull out inside the target but still be removable for trimming the shaft length.
How have you guys overcome this problem?
Red Dwarf
try some good hotmelt, works for me.
Or use a small piece of saran wrap or plastic bag like you get from the grocery store.
If Bareshafting, just trim back end.
Glue the inserts in place, and trim from the nock end.
If they are not tappered shafts trim from the back. If they are use hot melt and a target point. To remove just heat the point with a propane torch while trying to turn the point and insert with pliers.. JUST HEAT THE POINT>> and keep trying to turn it... it will start to turn and you can get it out....
What I do for tuning my carbons is to use some saran wrap,push in the insert with the saran wrap.It will hold it in tight enough for tuning.But you need a softer target like a bag target,that doesn't grab as tight as a foam targert.I do this method for tuning,I'll shoot through a shallow box.The box will hold the position of the arrow and the bag target doesn't grab too tight to pull the insert back out.I also fit my brass inserts to the arrow shafts.Sometimes the brass insert will be slightly larger making alittle lip on it.I mount a point in my drill and spin the insert and file it to fit flush with the shaft so there in no lip to catch.I like to tune with my arrow wraps on so cutting from the nock end doesn't work for me.
I am using the method recommended O.L. Adcock for bareshaft tuning; you compare the impact points of bare and fletched shafts where, except for the fletching, the arrows are identical.
Without removing the fletching every time you want to trim shaft length you have to cut from the point end.
I don't wish to use hot melt as this may adversly affect the glue bond when final epoxying takes place.
I think I will try the grocery bag/saran method.
Thanks guys for helping out once more.
Red Dwarf
I don't like to heat the point with a propane torch, because just the least amount too much heat, and the carbon begins to disintegrate. I glue the insert in with a small dab of hot melt glue, and when I want to remove it, I hold the end in boiling water. This works for either the point or nock insert, and doesn't heat the carbon enough to damage it.
When I want to hold the insert in permanently, I use Insert Iron. Insert Iron will also soften in hot water, but not as easily as hot melt glue.
I use about a 2" piece of 4-6 lb fishing line! Works like a champ!
Rusty
I use a plastic grocery bag...KY
A small dab of hot melt will hold like McDave said. Then you can take a metal rod slightly smaller in diameter than your shaft. Slam it into the insert a couple of time and the insert will break free.
I have had the Saran wrap pull out often enough to not want to use it again. I would go with a small amount of hot melt.
McDave.. I have been doing it this way for some time (10 years or so) and I can not say it has disintegrated (melt) or otherwise denigrated the carbon on any shafts I have. I have some shafts that are 7+ years old an have had the heck shot out of them. I learned the hard way by using too much heat.
I agree if it gets too hot you can have a problem which is why I said just the tip and to keep trying to turn them. I also "dunk" the shaft in room temp water after removing the insert.
I actually went to a friend who is an engineer (Chemical and Mechanical) and asked about the degradation which heat may cause. Told him what I was doing and even gave him some samples of shafts. His comment was if it doesnt start to soften its OK but be carful. I do not remember the Temp at which it softens but I don't get any place close to it.
QuoteOriginally posted by HB3:
If Bareshafting, just trim back end.
+1 - it's only one shaft and you know your length with that shaft forever, still good as the rest
Bruce,
My only experience with heating the tips with a propane torch is when I break or damage a carbon shaft and want to salvage the insert. In that case, I just heat the tip until I can pull the insert out. Since the shaft is already wrecked, I'm not trying to save it, so admitedly I'm not too careful with how much heat I apply to the tip. I notice under those conditions that when I pull out the insert some of the carbon is often curled around it, which I then have to peel off before I can re-use the insert.
I'm sure you're right, that if you're careful, you can heat the tip without damaging the carbon shaft.
Dave:
I think there may be a difference her.. Are you using an epoxy? I use nothing but hot melt. The epoxy may take a higher temp to become flexable and the fact that you have a residue...
Just a thought. Bye the Bye... nice mulie in your avatar
I used a piece of blue painter's tape the other day, it even held up in the soft foam butts at the club. I needed to put the point in a bench vise and twist the insert out.
Killdeer
I have use nothing but hotmelt. Have never had a broadhead come off. If you drive it in a tree you might have a problem but at least you can save the shaft. Forget epoxy its not needed. Makes it much easier to true up the T.I.R
Killy:
How tight was your insert to start with? That tape is something I had not thought of.....
About as tight as a standard Gold Tip insert in a standard Gold Tip shaft... :rolleyes:
Pulls out easily with fingers. I had hotmelted an insert in, but because I did not prepare the shaft, it pulled out on the first shot. Played with the plastic that the inserts came in and it failed, so I used the tape. The tape is usually used as temporary nock points on a new string, so it was in the quiver.
I have used Scotch tape, too. Play around to find out how much you need.
Killdeer
Thanks darlin... thats a heck of an idea.. Hat Dang we are inventive arent we...
Hey , is Fibber McGees's closet near Staunton? I was there last July. I never thought... perhaps..
You can PM the reply if ya want
Mono fishing line it is: works like a dream, really holds!
Many thanks Rusty1 & all.
Red Dwarf
Looks like Rusty wins the prize!
Uh... what IS the prize?
The Closet is in Northern VA. I wish to heck it was near Staunton.
Killdeer :( :banghead:
Hotmelt works great. It can even be used with HIT shafts like an Axis. Here's how:
Get two, 2" long 8/32 brass machine screws and two brass nuts. Brass transmits heat faster than steel. Double nut one screw at the depth you want to place the insert. Use that one to place the insert. Heat the screw until glue melts on the insert and no more. Place the insert quickly and immediately dip screw and all in water to cool. Use a drill bit by hand to clean the excess glue from the inside of the shaft.
To remove an insert, screw in the bass screw without the nuts. Heat the end of the screw well away from arrow. Check it periodically with pliers and pull as soon as possible. Water dipping isn't necessary when removing an insert if you pull it as soon as the glue softens.
I use 1 1/4 turn of electrician's tape. I've used it for years. Wrap it with very tight tension over insert, shaft, and field tip. It only adds a few grains and holds like a champ. (even in moderate foam targets)
QuoteOriginally posted by Killdeer:
Looks like Rusty wins the prize!
Uh... what IS the prize?
WOO HOO!!!! :D
Rusty
We are all prize recipients with Rusty as the donor; mono fishing line is the best method that I have tried to date.
I found various types of tape just got pushed down to the end of the insert: internal tapering of the end of the carbon shaft helped a little but I did not like the idea of weakening that critical part of the arrow.
Trying the shopping bag method just resulted in 5/16 holes being "punched" out of the bag.
Thanks again Rusty1
RD
No problem!! Feels good to actually contribute something more here than "nice looking bow" or "great buck"!
Rusty
QuoteOriginally posted by Huntschool:
McDave.. I have been doing it this way for some time (10 years or so) and I can not say it has disintegrated (melt) or otherwise denigrated the carbon on any shafts I have. I have some shafts that are 7+ years old an have had the heck shot out of them. I learned the hard way by using too much heat.
I agree if it gets too hot you can have a problem which is why I said just the tip and to keep trying to turn them. I also "dunk" the shaft in room temp water after removing the insert.
Been doing this since carbon shafts hit the market... I've never ruined a shaft by this method.