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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: 30pointbuck on February 13, 2011, 12:34:00 AM

Title: Arrow Footings
Post by: 30pointbuck on February 13, 2011, 12:34:00 AM
I here alot of talk about arrow footings. Please excuse the dumb question but just what is a footing and what does it do. Don't bash me to hard guy's im just learning my way around traditional archery and trying to take in all the info. i can.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: boznarras on February 13, 2011, 03:26:00 AM
In carbon arrows, the term describes gluing a short piece, say an inch, of aluminum arrow shaft over the forward end of your arrow. It makes it stronger for impact,& helps keep the insert from crushing the carbon shaft when you hit something hard. Some put another smaller piece back by the nock of the arrow also. Makes for a very durable arrow, especially useful for surviving shooting stumps, rocks, etc.
If you do a search on this here, you will get a lot of info on how to do it and what you need for your arrows.  There is a chart for what aluminum shaft fits over what carbon arrow.

In wood arrows it describes using a different heavier wood for the front part of the shaft, spliced to the lighter back part of the shaft.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2011, 06:07:00 AM
Here's an aluminum footing(Easton Legacy 2020) installed onto a Beman MFX 500 Classic arrow:

(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh472/ishoot4thrills/Broadheads003.jpg)
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: hardwaymike on February 13, 2011, 07:04:00 AM
So is the insert in the carbon or the aluminum shaft?
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: Trad Whitetail on February 13, 2011, 07:37:00 AM
It is in the carbon.  The carbon is assembled as usual and the aluminum is slipped over the end (even with the insert at the end of the carbon shaft) and glued in place (I use JB Weld).
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: Charlie Lamb on February 13, 2011, 08:34:00 AM
Footings in there more original form were hard woods spliced into the front of a wooden shaft. It was done to improve balance, appearance, and toughness. Maybe someone will post a picture of that as well.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: 30pointbuck on February 13, 2011, 09:08:00 AM
Im very interested in this subject, anyboby have a link or more info on how to build these i could use something like this. I miss the target alot,and hit a tree behind my target bag, it bends my alum. shafts. lol, Thanks a million for the info. I have learned so much already here at this site, you guy's are super. Thanks for the pict, ishoot4thrills.   :)
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: JimB on February 13, 2011, 10:47:00 AM
30point,I doubt if this would help your aluminum arrows,at least as far as bending.

On frontal impacts to hard objects,the insert on a carbon can get driven back into the shaft like a wedge.This splits the front of the shaft.Adding the aluminum tubing to the front creates a band that keeps the carbon fibers from flaring out and splitting and the insert stays put.

I put a 1" piece on the front and a 1/4" piece on the nock end.I have heard of the nock ends of the shafts splitting but haven't had it happen on mine.Anyway,as long as I am making up footings,I make them for the nock ends too.It does seem to cut way down on nocks blowing out on hard impacts.

I don't think you can do anything to prevent aluminum arrows from bending.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: 30pointbuck on February 13, 2011, 11:11:00 AM
Kinda figuring that one out the hard way lol. I may just have to put a couple bales of straw in front of the tree. I still like the idea of the footings though. Does it help with weight up front as far as FOC goes to help with arrow flight, and from a hunting stand point is there any advantage, or disadvantage ?
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: JimB on February 13, 2011, 12:04:00 PM
Most footings weigh 9-12 grains per inch so it doesn't change front end weight much.Toughening the carbon shaft for frontal impacts is,I think,the main value.I have been shooting carbon arrows with footings,a lot,over the past 2 1/2 years and have yet to break one and have hit a lot of hard stuff,including a dead center hit on a steel post.I shot an antelope through the shoulders and he snapped the shaft off.That is the only break I've had.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: 30pointbuck on February 13, 2011, 12:32:00 PM
I see, so it's mainly for carbon shafts.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: Trad Whitetail on February 13, 2011, 04:30:00 PM
Yes - it is for carbons.  I don't really see any advantage to footing aluminum arrows since they can still bend which is their weakness.  It helps carbons because they tend to blow out at the insert, as stated above.  I have not broken any shafts since I started footing them - well, other than the one that bounced off of a log at ten yards and hit a steel T-post sideways, but that was a fluke!  My wife started out with 35/55 carbons and kept breaking them at the insert.  She can hit the posts holding the targets up all day when she is not trying to!   :rolleyes:    I had her go to aluminum arrows because they were cheaper, but they got broken and bent at a fast pace.  About then I discovered the footing trick for my arrows and footed some of her old carbons and she has yet to break one.  In the end footed carbons have been a lot cheaper than anything else because they are very tough.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: 30pointbuck on February 13, 2011, 04:41:00 PM
Im lookin for some carbons for my recurves i think im going to experiment with it as soon as i can get them. As of now im shooting Alum.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: boznarras on February 13, 2011, 05:49:00 PM
30 point, I went down this same road.

The aluminums were too easy to bend, so I went to the carbons, then started footing the carbons to keep from mushrooming the ends.
I have not had to buy any arrows for a long while now, and I hit my share of hard things that are so foolish as to be near my target.
Now my bent aluminums are getting used as footings, so I have some good recycling going on.

Do click 'search' at top here and type in 'footing with aluminum', you will find all you need to know on how to do it, multiple threads on this in the past, which is how I learned to do it. A great resource there for the taking.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: 30pointbuck on February 13, 2011, 06:02:00 PM
boznarras, i just did a search with what info you gave me wow there is alot of info, Thank You
as a matter of fact i've added it to my favorites
list.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: boznarras on February 13, 2011, 06:50:00 PM
Yes it is a rare subject that you can do a search on and come up empty.
Search is  a really great tool on this site, especially for the first attempt at info.
Often this lets those poor deceased equines get their rest.   :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: 30pointbuck on February 13, 2011, 06:59:00 PM
i had never heard of footing arrows until this site, Lots of great info here.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: Huntschool on February 13, 2011, 07:05:00 PM
30 pt..

Go look around the arrow buy/sell/trade section.  There were some pics of footed wood just so you get an idea what that looks like.  Ya may have to go back a few pages but there were some nice ones on there.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: 30pointbuck on February 13, 2011, 08:08:00 PM
I will Huntschool thanks, i never thought about that. I just can't say enough about you guy's on this site, Not once have i been bashed or made to feel stupid or foolish for asking a dumb question, I love this site and traditional, it's in my blood now.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: Charlie Lamb on February 13, 2011, 09:03:00 PM
Here's a link to the "How To Resources" that might be helpful. Carbon shaft brands and sizes and corresponding aluminum "footing sizes".
 Aluminum footing sizes for carbon arrows  (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000098#000000)
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: 30pointbuck on February 13, 2011, 09:17:00 PM
Thanks Charlie, That will come in handy.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: Knapper on March 17, 2011, 10:13:00 AM
I am footing wood shafts to add more beauty to the shaft, to add a part of me,  and for the lure of interaction in a on going passion in traditional archery.  It adds a part of me to he arrow.  Why do we crest arrows, is it to be able to recognize that arrow?  Not really, it is involvement, interaction, and making a statement about something that we really love and believe in.

Put all that crap aside.  I shoot at least a 1,000 shot a year with judo's and I maybe break 3 arrows.  Big deal.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: Jack Skinner on March 17, 2011, 11:32:00 AM
Someone asked about hardwood footed shafts these are bloodwood and purpleheart. Adding FOC, strength and balance to Poplar shafts. Third tru 6th from left.
  (http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n274/JackSkinner/Footed%20Arrows/DSCF0379.jpg)
Internally footed poplar. Third, forth, fifth from left I believe you can see a little brass showing. Some of the hardwood footed shafts also have brass and or lead added internally. Adds FOC, strength to tip
  (http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n274/JackSkinner/Footed%20Arrows/DSCF0375.jpg)
Lot of time and work in making these shafts, and I enjoy every second.
  (http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n274/JackSkinner/Footed%20Arrows/DSCF0361.jpg)
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: straitera on March 17, 2011, 11:38:00 AM
Really nice Jack! Killer arrows!
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: tecum-tha on March 17, 2011, 11:55:00 AM
If you shoot wood, footings can be created with different methods. Single Splice, dovetail, 4-wing or konus-type footings.
The konus types are by far the toughest, if done with the right woods and the 4-wing are the most beautiful to most eyes...
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: hardwaymike on March 18, 2011, 12:02:00 PM
Anyone have any chunks of 2216 laying around that they want to get rid of? I want to try this footing thing out on my GT 5575's. And according to the chart that is what it will take. They won't fit into my 2117 shafts.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: Camp III on March 18, 2011, 04:47:00 PM
I'm striking out on finding some 1916's does anybody have one I could buy.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: hardwaymike on March 20, 2011, 04:49:00 PM
TTT!
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: jonsimoneau on March 20, 2011, 07:12:00 PM
Here are some I made for wood arrows.  Sitka spruce shafts, purple heartwood footing.

(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n132/jonsimoneau/IMG_4028.jpg)[/IMG]
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n132/jonsimoneau/IMG_4027.jpg)[/IMG]
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: 30pointbuck on March 20, 2011, 08:33:00 PM
Those are cool.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: hardwaymike on March 20, 2011, 08:38:00 PM
Nice Jon!
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: Possum Head on March 21, 2011, 06:54:00 AM
Charlie's list was really nice and it just so happens some where I saw a post about trying 2117's on 500's so I did just that and they work perfect on the ICS Bowhunters (Beemans).So add that on your chart for future reference.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: sj_lutz on March 21, 2011, 07:22:00 AM
I'm really impressed with 3R's "carbon collars".  Don't have a whole lot of experience with them yet, just put them on a couple weeks ago.  That said, they are very effective from what I've seen so far.  Out stumping yesterday, as it happens, shot a touch over the top of what I was aiming at, and smacked the rock I couldn't see behind it (PA woods = lots of rocks) Ended up bending the 100 grain insert, but the arrow itself was fine.  I'm confidant that without the collar, this arrow would have mushroomed.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: hardwaymike on March 21, 2011, 02:06:00 PM
So when you put the aluminum shaft pieces over the carbon shaft, do you have to put anything on the aluminum part on the top or no? In the pics it looks like there is a collar on the top of the aluminum piece. I may be seeing something that is not there but that is what I am seeing.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: Buckwheaties on March 21, 2011, 02:17:00 PM
Lancaster sells single alum shafts.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: RookieBwhunter on March 21, 2011, 02:37:00 PM
Footing seems odd to me. If you take part of the arrow away and add a stronger piece to it, wouldn't that still create a weak spot where the two join? I am not much of a wood worker like my father and grandfather were so bare with me  :)  Why not just use a heavier/stronger wood to begin with? Say Hickory? I will admit it does add a nice look to it though.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: tecum-tha on March 21, 2011, 07:36:00 PM
It will make a lighter shaft with some FOC. I had cedar arrows footed with 1.5" of black locust withstand direct hits on steel posts. The field point ferrule split open. Arrow was fine.
Had that happen on multiple arrows. One cedar shaft shot 7 times into a concrete block. Then I called it quits. Arrow still good today.
Arrow fix-style conus footing.1.2-2" long.
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: jonsimoneau on March 21, 2011, 11:15:00 PM
RookiebWhunter, it may seem that way...but actually the opposite is true.  English archers begain footing arrows a really long time ago when they realized the benefits of it.  The benefits of it today, are even more exagertated. (I'm talking wood arrows...I've never footed carbons or aluminum.)  The reasons are that our glues are probably much better than what was available in the old days.  I use Gorrilla glue for my wood arrow footings...and trust me...it works great! The wood used in the footing is much denser and tougher than the actual shaft of the arrow.  This gives you extreme strength in the most vulnerable part of the shaft without the arrow weight of using an arrow made completely out of something like purple heartwood.  And yes..they look cool!  The other benefit to footing wood arrows is the increase in F.O.C. which has pretty much been proven to increase penetration.  You will break many less wood arrows if they are footed!  Have fun guys!
Title: Re: Arrow Footings
Post by: RookieBwhunter on March 22, 2011, 11:24:00 AM
Thanks Jonsimoneau, always appreciate the info