I'm a longbow shooter at heart, but have shot and owned a lot of recurves in the past. The two I have liked the best were the Black Widow SA/PSA and the DAS Master Hunter. Haven't owned either in 7-8 years...
Recently bought a used PSA II(58", and 70# @ 30"). Right in my preferred length and weight and at a great price. Well, while shooting this bow I've got the hankering to get a DAS bow again.
Do your best to talk me into it, or out of it... I have to say I'm really leaning towards getting one.
This won't probably sway you one way or the other, but those always reminded me of compounds with no wheels-I like wood. Just my 2 cents.
RonP
Jeff... get one... you know you wanna... dunno how it'll size up against the DAS Master though... and there is no comparing these bows to a compound with or without wheels... metal riser traditional bows have been around for a long long while.
I've been shooting bows since I was knee high to a tadpole, about 40 or so yrs. I've tried a lot of bows over this time span. Now that doesn't mean I've tried all of em and there are some great bows out there I'm sure I haven't tried. But from what I have tried, for me can't say for anyone else, the 17" DAS riser, Dalaa, is the most accurate and forgiving bow I have ever had the pleasure to shoot. But, believe it or not, I sent the first one back that came with wood limbs. About a yr later I bought one used with W&W foam core limbs. It felt great but still couldn't shoot it well. So I ordered up a low grip handle which improved things but still it wasn't quite right. I then had Jager make me a minimalist grip and all I can say is WOW! Now I can pile arrows into a 3" circle at 25 yards like I've been shooting this bow for decades. I have never in those 40 or so yrs been this accurate with any bow, other than a compound. Then, possessed with a burning desire to experiment and possibly achieve perfection, I bought a set of Border Hex5 limbs.... WOW! Now I have accuracy coupled with SPEED and a smoothness of draw like I've never felt before. This bow is a true joy and pleasure to shoot.
The bottom line is and you gotta remember Jeff, are the infinite possibilities of handles, rests and limbs that you can possibly try to find the best blend of traditional shooting perfection for you. Just do it and don't look back.
I had one. It was smooth and dead in the hand. Plenty of adjustability, as you know. I sold it only because I shot my BW better. To be fair, I didn't give enough time to the Dalaa. I may buy another now that there are more limb options readily available.
Let me just remind you that youve go a couple of sweet MOABs on your bow rack, I guess Im talking you out of it. :dunno:
A lot of guy's don't like metal riser bows or say they aren't trad, I have a couple Titans and have shot a Dalaa. These bows are truly dead in the hand and shoot fabulous,I'm slowly getting rid of my wood bows simply because I shoot the metal riser bows better. The final choice is yours but my opinion is go for it.
I tried one last year from 3 Rivers. (Basic stock model)They offered a 30 day money back guarantee so I had nothing to lose. It shot good groups and I even Robin Hooded an arrow at 25 yds. Just not as smooth and dead in the hand as my A&H ACS or my Centaur. I sent it back. Nothing bad to say about it. Great deal & Thumbs up to 3 River Archery for offering such a deal and following thru with their promise. Randy
Since you told us that story, I hope you will explain why you sent it back because the way you just told it, it sounded like a lousy thing to do to a good merchant.
What portugeejn said! I big part of trad bows for me is the Beauty of the WOOD!.....KY
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
Since you told us that story, I hope you will explain why you sent it back because the way you just told it, it sounded like a lousy thing to do to a good merchant.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Hand made wood bow with is warmth and soul or machined made with cold aircraft aluminum soulless?Personal choice.
Warmth maybe, but soul? Really? You know, ti-guy, that there are an awfully lot of wood risers that are made with a CNC machine just like aluminum. Black Widow and Bear both come to mind----and these are both bows that have an enormous following.
I guess an aluminum riser can have "soul", too. Its all in the perspective, I think that the "life" of a bow is all in the limbs anyway.
JMO----and of course no offense meant here, just an expression of opinion.
Soul in a chunk of deadwood? :rolleyes:
Been shooting the DAS for years - there is no down side, only good.
The Daala & my Morrison Metal 15" ILF with Daala limbs are my main hunting bows. They provide a 10% weight adjustment, tiller adjustment & are extremely accurate with a 2 lbs. + riser. The stock limbs are smooth & quick, although I would be pleased to try out a set of the new carbon foams by 3R!
Sure, the handle is really cold to the touch when the temps. go low, but I have gloves on anyway & the confidence that I feel shooting the DAS trumps this issue. Plus they are practically bullet proof and an excellent value even with the new limbs.
I agree with what the others have said about the beauty & ascetics of wood bows, I own a large stable of these custom beauties; they just don't get hunted with much.
At the end of the day, I think you've already made your decision, don't look back cause once you get your DAS back on.... Your're gonna have a big old smile each time you loose an arrow on the 10 ring or sweet spot!
Get the riser and a set of the new dryad longbow ACS limbs and you have the best of both worlds
To each his own, but if it were me, I would choose one of the 17" metal risers with the ILF connection.
maxwell hit on a dandy combo there. last time I
checked,Wingnut had some ACS limbs in stock. Wish
we could all get along on what is and what is'nt
trad. I love wood,I love feathers and leather.
and I think metal riser recurve/longbows look
very tough. Lets all take aim at the ANTI-HUNTER
instead.
I have a DAS Master Hunter, 65# at 29 in. When i first got the bow, i thought the poundage of off, since it pulled so smooth, no, it is not as pretty as my Marriah Thermal or Dale Dye, but,man, it really is smooth and is extremely fast.
Ok...I agree with those who feel like this is more of a target bow than a hunting bow....metal riser, adjustable rest, adjustable tiller and weight. But.......... so what.
I just ordered a 66" bow, 21" riser and wood limbs. Nothing like checking one out for oneself 8-)
I agree spectre,it's just that I feel that wood was alive once and of course risers and bows made in series are far ,in my opinion,from a self bow.Any the soul is in reality in our heart and head,don't they?
In my opinion, for the money, there are a lot better options on the market...especially with respect to the limbs.
Be SURE you get the right grip when you order. New ones are $40!!!
Jeff, I love your handle "Turkeys Fear Me", if I didn't already have one, I could change mine to "Turkeys point and laugh at me".
I'm still skunked on turkeys! :biglaugh:
Biggie, I talked to the Guys at 3 Rivers first before I sent it back. I was just getting into Trad Archery and they said give one a try and if it is not what you want send it back. I tried it along with alot of other bows and settled on the A&H ACS as my favorite with the Centaur a very close second. I to love the woods and feel of the long bow. I buy all my Trad Equipment from 3 Rivers and sending this bow back was in no way meant as a negative comment to them . They are GREAT people to deal with. The bow was returned in like new condition and I am sure they were able to package and re-sell as slightly used. Thanks, Randy
Randy, I figgered as much. Maybe it was me but the way you 1st told the story, it didn't sound good.
Didn't mean to put you on the spot...I know by your posts here that you are not "that" kind of fella
Since you already had one in the past then you do know what you are getting and you seem like you want one so go for it. For me hearing all the hype about these bows before actually shooting one was a real downer for me. Don't get me wrong, the bow is a shooter but so is my palmer, and the zipper I tried and that sweet shooting blacktail etc.
I have owned a lot of bows, some really nice looking, however if you can get by the looks of a flat black metal bow you will absolutely love the way the DAS, Morrison, Tradtech etc. etc. shoots. You can tune the bow to the arrows rather than the arrows to the bow if you wish.
I look at it exactly opposite of Biggie, it's my real pretty very expensive bows I feel bad about hunting with, afraid I might scratch them. That flat black not so pretty bow doesn't seem to bother me at all.
end of the world is near......hopefully I will see y'all in heaven because BIGGIE has bought a METAL riser TARGET BOW! Or hunting bow! Welcome Biggie to the other side. maybe I can talk you into a single bevel and flipper rest? Let me know because I am going to stump your tail in Nebraska on stump shooting. Welcome to the 21st century.
Well..... im tired of waiting for u to build my longbow.
I have it on paper. :) . Do not have the guts to lay it up yet. Your still #1 on the list.
What kind of grip did you get for your big ole paw?
Or-you can gat an extra set of limbs for the Widow.
Well, thank you all for your insights both here and on PM's. I didn't want this to become a "what is trad" thread and you all did a great job of keeping it clean. Thanks!
I've went back and forth several times, but just made a swing through the classifieds and found a Jack Kempf Kwyk Styk, 55# @ 28" and 58" long that I couldn't pass up. So, I guess I'll have to put the DAS on the back burner for now...
Still thinking of getting one, but now I can't afford it. Makes that decision easy... for now!
:laughing:
Grats on the new addition.
Joey, I got the standard grip but it's no good for me. Went to buy a low grip handle but $40 is too much. I'll try it with the standard.
I also told them that they should include a $2 bowstringer with a $800 bow.
How much is that Swamprooter Longbow gonna cost me again?
On advice from others I tried this with a metal riser I had that's similar to the Dalaa, I shot it with no grip on it... just some sports wrap like the kind used for a tennis racquet... worked real nicely.
Ya better work some overtime so you can get that Das
Take a file to that grip Biggie, make it like you want it if it doesn't fit.
I too love the acs limb and am patiently waiting for a set from Mike to put on my DAS master, pant pant. Should make a superb combo. And heck there is some wood in those limbs.
Congrats on the kwik stick but I bet you still yearn for the das.
IMHO all the adjustability is a recipe for disaster under hunting conditions. I like simple, no tiller adjustment, no rest adjustment/elevated rest, no "snap" anything. 40 years hunting big game with a bow has taught me if something can go wrong it will. I could tell stories for hours....Simple+tuned+practice = consistant success. My advice is to look inside for solutions, not to gadgets. just my 2cents
QuoteIMHO all the adjustability is a recipe for disaster under hunting conditions. I like simple, no tiller adjustment, no rest adjustment/elevated rest, no "snap" anything. 40 years hunting big game with a bow has taught me if something can go wrong it will. I could tell stories for hours....Simple+tuned+practice = consistant success. My advice is to look inside for solutions, not to gadgets. just my 2cents
Wrong
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y275/420W/100_0764.jpg)
Wouldn't own a Dass or anything else sold exclusively by one company. Would most surely buy an ILF set up because of the huge amount of choices in risers and limbs creating an almost inexhaustable number of combinations and costs. Frank
B/W lvr, don't want to pop your bubble but the das riser can be purchased separately and shot with any of the ilf limbs of your choice. Following your logic you would not buy a Morrison, Tradtech, Dryad or Border ILF riser. You would be limiting yourself from some high quality items only buying risers not sold exclusively.
I wouldn't presume to tell you which bow to buy - or which one not to buy. All I know is that metal riser bows aren't personally my cup of tea, no matter how well they may shoot. But that's just me. If the Daala works for you then it's your decision regardless of what anyone says.
I had a Dalaa and sold it for a Fedora. Better grip is what mostly sold me; easier to get consistency. Dalaa was not a bad bow; I killed deer with it, the Fedora is just clearly a better bow.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dave Earley:
I had a Dalaa and sold it for a Fedora. Better grip is what mostly sold me; easier to get consistency. Dalaa was not a bad bow; I killed deer with it, the Fedora is just clearly a better bow.
Your opinion and not a fact... for instance, my Fedora did not fit me.
The Dalaa was more of a training and tuning experience for me. They are nice bows, yet with all three grips was never satisfied nor comfortable. Note: While I was never comfortable, the bow perfomed well and I actually shot quite well with it. Possibly, I am just not a metal riser guy, however I did not care for needing to add limb savers and double silencers on each end.
One of the grip choices may be perfect for you.
As far as metal riser bows go, the Hoyt Buffalo, for me, is noticeably more comfortable even though I have only shot one on two occassions.
QuoteOriginally posted by B/W lvr:
Wouldn't own a Dass or anything else sold exclusively by one company. Would most surely buy an ILF set up because of the huge amount of choices in risers and limbs creating an almost inexhaustable number of combinations and costs. Frank
I agree with you Frank. That's why I like the ILF connection. The only way to shoot limbs other than the ones that come with the Dalaa is to modify them. Not so with any of the ILF risers.
Modification is a change of bushings and takes less the 5 minutes. And gives me what I feel for me is a superior attachment system. Takes the same time to change them back if desired.
Ok....now that you guys talked me into buying one....how do you quieten it down. Noisiest bow I have! I have two sets of rubber string silencers on it now, brace height is right, tiller is 1/8. 650 grain arrows.
Hey Biggie, This is what it took to make mine quiet.
I twisted a new TS1 String (12 str padded), Wool string balls, string grove pads, then played with the tiller till it got real quiet. For me it shot the quiest at even tiller... Playing with the tiller really helped for me...
Mark.........
1/8 to 1/4 tiller for split.
Many are even for 3 under.
For the 21" riser, I've seen BH from 7 1/2 to 8 1/2.
If you like to fiddle and adjust things, I guess that bow would be the ticket.
Biggie , That was one of the same things I noticed.Different from my Long bows. I put a set of wheel bow style limb silencers to try to quite it down. Randy
Put a set of string silencers on it and a set of Sims vibration silencers on the limbs at the end of the fades get the brace set and it'll be quiet.
Biggie- Joey just called and said you have to return the Swamp Rooter now!
QuoteOriginally posted by Bonebuster:
If you like to fiddle and adjust things, I guess that bow would be the ticket.
No more "fiddling" and adjustment then any other bow. Just easier to custimize it perfectly - then never adjust again. Most bows if tiller is not quite right for someone, they are SOL without sandpaper and refinishing. Thats fiddling and adusting :)
Mark, I was gonna try the tiller adjustment. Now I WILL FOR SURE, tHANKS.
Stoneknife...the sims dampers sound like a good idea too.
Marty...the Swamprooter is retired. It has done it's duty honorably. Jerry's here, tell your sister it was good to see her again and come on up.
I meant nothing by it.
So what makes these bows so hard to quiet down? Is it the Dalaa limbs? Is this the case with all the recurve limbs on this riser? I shot a 17" Dalaa riser with the ACS ILF limbs and no silencers at all. I found it quieter than most recurves I have had after I quieted them down, so I assume this is a recurve limb issue.
I shoot one set of limbs at a 7" brace height and the other set at 7 1/2". Tiller is 1/8" and I shoot split finger. Bow hushes on the ends of the strings with one string leech on each side. That makes it as quiet or quieter than any other bow I've shot.