My bow weight is way off.
It says 51@28, but always felt much easier to pull than that.
I wondered why a 30in 2018 shot so well. At my 29in draw shoulda been under spined at 54lbs.
Well put it on a scale...47@28!
Why would a custom bowyer mark an inaccurate poundage on a bow? I don't get it?
how old is the bow?
Martin (Damon Howatt) has a reputation for undermarking bows to give the impression of added "zip". My Dream Catcher is off about two pounds.
You'll notice some bows - Ben Pearsons for instance - are marked like: 45XX# or XX50#. These would be a 47# and a 48# bows respectively. There is a five pound range that is "allowed" for the AMO (and I think ATA). So a bow that scales 48# may be marked as 50# or XX50#. Some manufacturers, Browning for instance, actually marked the bow's weight. i.e. 52#@28". Bears (I believe) have the actual weight @28" stamped under the riser pad.
In your case - can't say. The draw is often measured in different places. For some it is 1-3/4" ahead of the deepest part of the grip (aka "pivot point"). So it is grip dependant as much as arrow length dependant. Can also be your scale does not agree with his scale.
http://texasarchery.org/Documents/AMO/AMOStandards.pdf
QuoteBow weight is the force required to draw the nocking point of the bow string a given distance from the pivot point of the bow grip (or the theoretical vertical projection of a tangency line to the pivot point parallel to the string). Draw length from pivot point shall be designated as DLPP and shall be referred to as TRUE DRAW LENGTH.
For the purpose of uniform bow weight designation, bow weight is the force required to draw the bow string 26 1/4" from the pivot point. This weight will be marked on bow as being taken at 28" draw (26 1/4" plus 1 3/4" = 28")
I had that happen and the bowyers replaced the bows both times-just make sure your scale is correct.
4# is quite a bit maybe the bowyer had not re-set his scale-or yours could be off too.
First question that came to my mind was what scale you are using. If it is one of those big hanging scales, you are probably ok. If it is one of those handheld things that you hook onto the string and grab the little T-handle and pull and read the scale on the side, then I say that's about right. I have never seen one of those hand held jobs that didn't read 3# light.
Simple answer is your scale and his scale don't jive.
My Howard Hills are always 3-4# heavier than the weight marked (and ordered)...on other scales as well as my own, and other bows I have weigh on my scales as marked by the bowyer. So I just factor that in when ordering a Hill. :)
I just recently got a bow I ordered and it just felt a little heavy I scaled it and the local hunting shop scaled it. Bow was 2.5#s heavier than stated. Nothing dramatic but it just felt heavier than the other bow.
I had a custom bow made a few years ago. Bowyer called and said the bow I ordered came in under the poudage I wanted. He stated that he would build another one, but if he didn't get it finished before his Alaska trip he had an upgraded model in the poundage I wanted that he would send for no extra cost.
The bow came and was marked 60#@28". I couldn't figure why my arrows wouldn't fly out of it. Put it on 2 seperate scales and they both said 54#. I called the bowyer about it and was told it made weight when it left his shop. Never heard from the guy again.
Still have the bow. Figured there would be a day when I can't pull 60# and I would have a brand new bow to shoot.
I have a custome bow that I ordered for my wife that is marked as 41lbs @28" and after weighing it, we found that at 28" the draw weight was 52lbs. I was going to send it back but my wife loves the bow and she sure can shoot it. I won't name the bowyer so please don't ask.
Looks like most bows are marked lighter than they actually are.
Mine is 4# lighter than marked.
Bought the bow new one year ago. I didn't order it, he was selling as stock bow marked 51@28.
I wondered why it was so dang slow.
I had three custom bows from a Bowyer ,And two others that I purchased used ,All from the same maker ,None of them were the poundage that was marked on the bow.
It's common to be 2 or 3 pounds off Most of the good Bowyer get within 1 to 2 pounds .
Carl
QuoteOriginally posted by Robert Honaker:
.............I wondered why it was so dang slow.
3# isn't gonna make THAT much difference.
it's actually 4 lbs and is sooo much slower than my other mid 50 bows.
I don't like how any bow under 50 shoots. There is a big diff.
I suspect it is slow because of design AND being light both. Also, check your other bows and see if they are heavier than marked. As some above mentioned...it is common for some to mark their bows lighter than they really are, as doing so makes their bows look fast. I think that trend is starting to change since people are now more educated. Many of Dan Quillians bows were actually only marked in poundage and draw length wasn't mentioned. People often assumed that mark was at 28", and while that may have been the case at one time, I have seen many that were actually the marked weight at a 26" draw length.
Additionally, some bowyers use a measuring tape on a wall and then pull the bow down to the mark on the wall...THAT IS THE WRONG WAY to measure bow weight. The distance to the mark is taken up not only by the bow, but also by the MOVING hook on the scale. I am amazed by the number of bowyers that do not notice this.
Imagine you have two bows...one 40# and another 70#. Pull them both to a mark on the wall...and the 70#er has pulled the hook on the scale down further since it is heavier...and therefore the bow itself isn't drawn as far. For this reason, when checking the weight of a bow, put a "measuring" arrow on the string with inch marks on it. You very seldom see that done, but it is the only way I know of to get a TRULY ACCURATE draw length/bow weight.
The only other way I know to get an "semi-accurate" draw is to have a "holding block" on the grip and then pull string to a mark. To do that though, the scale can't be anchored (often done with a pully and rope). The problem with this method is the grip variations will have to be taken into consideration as the distance to the back of the shelf in front of the "grip" block may vary in some designs.
My other bows are spot on. I do measure with a marked arrow.
A couple years ago, I stopped by a local archery shop to pick up some nocks. These guys are 110% compound, so I was surprised to see a couple stickbows on the consignment rack. One was a Cascade Goshawk marked 65@28. I asked them what the story was, and was told a guy brought it in with an old Indian recurve (Chochise), a dozen Legacys, a back quiver, a stringer and two gloves. Wanted $300 for everything. Both bows near mint. I asked if I could check the Cascade out, and the guy said if you can string it you can shoot it. They stared like I was from another planet as I strung it, I don't think they had ever seen a stringer in action before. I said "if that's 65# then I'm Hulk Hogan". We put it on the scale, and it weighed 57#. Perfect. Thats the worst mis-marked bow I've come across and I bought it on the spot.
QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
QuoteOriginally posted by Robert Honaker:
.............I wondered why it was so dang slow.
3# isn't gonna make THAT much difference. [/b]
Okay, I got my calculator out and........you are correct, it IS 4# instead of 3#. I was just checking to see if everyone was awake! ;) :rolleyes: :biglaugh:
The only bows I own that are marked correctly are the ones I built. I use digital bow scales and they are accurate. Every purchased bow I have is marked 2-5# heavy, even bows I have bought and sold were all lighter tahn advertised.
Could be that he is using an "old fashioned" spring scale or that his scale is not calibrated correcly. Or it could be that he just missed the weight and did not want to make another bow (I hope it was not the last reason).
Bisch
Lee.......
Do you measure your bows from the back of the bow or from the depest part of the grip?
James..................
My new Bama Hunter on the money at 27" 64" bow at 53 #s Thanks Nate...
Your lucky yours is low. I bought a new bow from a top bow maker. The bow came marked as ordered 54#s @ 27 but it was really 61-62#s. Messed my shooting up something awefull before I realized it wasn't just draw force. It was a newer design for me and I thought that was why it was so stiff. Needless to say I'm done with that bow maker for life!!!
I went into a bow shop last week and watched the owner weigh a recurve. He secured the bow with the string downward. Hooked a 4 pound scale to the string and with a pulley hooked to the bottom hook of the scale pulled it to the 28" mark.
He did not take into account the 4 pound weight of the scale or that the 28" mark was used for all bows.
This man is a (un)professional that everyone in that county counts on to set up their bow. After talking with him a bit I discovered he's convinced all the arrow charts are off 5#.
QuoteOriginally posted by 7 Lakes:
I went into a bow shop last week and watched the owner weigh a recurve. He secured the bow with the string downward. Hooked a 4 pound scale to the string and with a pulley hooked to the bottom hook of the scale pulled it to the 28" mark.
He did not take into account the 4 pound weight of the scale or that the 28" mark was used for all bows.
This man is a (un)professional that everyone in that county counts on to set up their bow. After talking with him a bit I discovered he's convinced all the arrow charts are off 5#.
Mike,
"Adjusting" the weight for the mass weight of the scale or the mass weight of the bow is a common myth that a lot of professional bowyers get sucked into believing...but think about it. In the situation you described, when the guy hooked the scale onto the string, the scale's physical mass pulled on the bowstring did it not? If so, then that weight should be included (which it is) and therefore should NOT be adjusted for. In the above situation, the scale is "drawing" some weight. Don't get me wrong, getting sucked into this myth this does not mean that the bows made by bowyers that made this mistake are not good bows. Although those bows will be incorrectly marked in terms of pull weight, many of those bows may very well be excellent bows. It only means those bowyers fell into confusion from a VERY COMMON MYTH that one should subtract the weight of the scale (if the bow is on top) or the weight of the bow (if the scale is one top) from the pull weight reported...when in fact they should READ IT AS THE SCALE REPORTS IT.
Here is why...
if the weight of the scale (or the weight of the bow if the scale is pulling upwards) is being supported/held by the bowstring, then it is flexing the limbs...and therefore it should be included. As long as the scale is calibrated, no adjustment should be made to the scale's reading. It sounds like that guy did it right...except for maybe the 28" mark thing. If he was using a block to hold the grip, the only variation he would have with that method would be variation in the depth of the grip/throat on the belly side of the bow to the backside of the bow...as throat depth varies from one design of bow to another (and to a lesser degree even grip size). Which is why draw length should be measured with a nocked measuring arrow when determining pull weight.
JamesV,
I use the same method that an archer uses to measure their draw length...and measure to the back of the bow on the outside of the arrow rest. I use a marked arrow to do that.
Protege, Both bows were drawn to the same mark on the wall - 28 inches. The reason the scale reads 40 or 70 is because the 40 pound bow has thinner wood in the limbs. The string and the hook moved the same distance - it doesn't matter how much the spring in the scale moved. A digital scale would read exactly the same. (???)
When I first read your statement I agreed with you, now I don't THINK I do.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowmania:
Protege, Both bows were drawn to the same mark on the wall - 28 inches. The reason the scale reads 40 or 70 is because the 40 pound bow has thinner wood in the limbs. The string and the hook moved the same distance - it doesn't matter how much the spring in the scale moved. A digital scale would read exactly the same. (???)
When I first read your statement I agreed with you, now I don't THINK I do.
I haven't used digital bow scales. I don't know how much movement there is in the hook on such scales.
I was referring to spring scales.
When you pull a spring scale down to 70# (without a bow) the hook is further extended then if you pulled the scale to 40#. How much variation there is between the hook from the 40# mark to the 70# mark will depend upon which type of spring scale one is using. For illustration purposes, let's say for a given scale one has an inch difference in how far the hook is extended from a pull of 40# to a pull of 70#. If that is the case, then by using a mark on the wall...a 70# bow will be drawn an inch less than the 40#er...when "stretching" it down to a fixed 28" mark on a wall. That is why I use a measuring arrow. The nock of the arrove moves WITH the hook on the scale/bowstring and therefore does not require adjustment.
Protege, I figured it out and agree. I thought of two weights exactly the same size, but weighting 40 and 70. In order to weight them you would have to move them until they cleared the ground. Because of the stretch in the spring the 70 pound weight would have moved further.
Thanks Lee,
Bowmania
I am confused now, when I measure a bow with a spring scale I pull the string to the 28" mark(measured from the back of the bow). I don't see how the amount of spring travel would be a factor. Also I pull my scale attached to the string and laying on a flat surfice horizonaly, thus eleminating the weight of the scale from the equation. If you are pulling down on the string you are measuring the weight of the scale into the draw weight, thus a scale weighing 3# would make your actual draw weight off by the 3# on the light side. Because the 3# scale is hanging on the string, giving 3# of draw weight and reading zero. My thinking, all the bows measured this way without deducting the weight of the scale are flawed by the amout of the weight of the scale.
James.......................
JamesV, it depends on how it is done. There are many ways to do it. When I have more time, I can come up with a photo to better illustrate what is hard to clarify in words.
When a 3# scale is hooked onto a string and is hanging by its weight, the scale shouldn't read zero. It should read whatever the scale weights. The only time a scale should read zero is when nothing is hooked onto it.
Becareful where you get your Bow..I just purchased a new longbow..I had ordered a 50#@28" When it arrived it was marked 52#@28" This is a rep co and they check each bow before it's written on bow, and when I checked it it was 52#. They said if I wasn't happy with it they would make it right. I'm very happy with this new Bow and the bowyer and there service.
Most bowyers want an allowance of +/- 2# which I think is reasonable. Your bow is in that range. Black Widow charges extra (or at least used to) for hitting an exact weight.
BBWV, where do you live? I'm in Charleston.
Lee............
I think you are correct, the scale hanging on the string should read it's own weight and not zero making your method correct.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Are you shooting at Yazoo City saturday, would love to meet you and shoot one of your bows.
James................
I was hoping to make it to the shoot, but I have 2 bows I have to finish up so I can ship them out on Monday. If I am lucky, I will be able to make it, but unfortunately probably not. I am CERTAINLY going to be attending future Yazoo shoots (Yazoo is probably my favorite club) and I am also hoping to go to Tanneyhill at the end of the month.
I do know Chastain's Wapitis are as marked. He uses brass weights on his.
Any one have any Bear T/D limbs weigh a couple of pounds heavier than marked ?
James: If you hang a scale hook on a bow string, the scale should not read 0, it should read the weight of the scale, because that's the amount of weight that's already pulling on the string. As protege has already explained. You do not adjust for the weight of the scale in the calculation. It's weight is already accounted for.