Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Arwin on January 11, 2007, 05:08:00 PM
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In another thread a few others and I were saying how thankfull we are for Easton Bowhuntings show. If anyone, who frequents this web-site, has the resources to make a completely traditional archery show, PLEASE DO IT!!!!!
I'm sure most people in here are getting bored with the standard wheelie bow show. It's so boring, like the animals have a script. The animal comes in to 30 yds. The hunter raises their bow, they shoot, blah blah blah. Once in a while they show mess ups, but the hunter is more surprised that they missed than not.
There are ALOT of sponsers for this web site and for a couple other trad sites on the web. Surely there are enough resources to get a show made and put it on the Outdoor Channel or the Mens Channel (MOR). Heck I'll host the thing!! LOL! Please for the love of God, give us a show!!!! :pray:
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At least the some of the bigger video shows (like Primos) is showing more hunts with trad equipment than they used to.
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A Good show would be like letting the Genie out of the bottle and for sure attract boatloads of converts to Traditional!!! Someone should do it!!
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Let's just hire a camera crew to follow Terry around.
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Some good trad hunts would sure liven things up on the hunting shows. I've never seen anyone use selfbows on any hunting shows that I've ever seen, and I'm sure that you could get a really neat show going where the hunter shows you how they made their equipment, then takes an animal with it. It would sure evoke some respect for those who selfbow hunt
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Actually, for the good of bowhunting in general, it would be FAR better if there were NO hunting shows on T.V. Most are trashy, poorly done, bloody, and FEED the anti-hunters with more than enough ammo for their crusade.
For every good one, such as what Primos does, there are a hundred that are just plain lousy!
As Pogo said, "We have found the enemy and he is us!" Think about that, people!
Too Short
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I know what your trying to say about the percentage that exhibits gluttonous behavior. But I think most trad guys show a bit more respect for their quarry.
The anti's would love it if we crawled in a hole and backed down. Thats how they get things done. There are many organizatons out there fighting for what we do. We should stand strong and not be ashamed of what we do. Blood is part of the hunt. Good editing can be done to minimize it being showed. We could do it in a tasteful manner.
I think getting a show out there that exhibits the spirit of traditional archery may influence other shows. From what Ive seen we are more greatful for our harvests than the average hunter and it takes way more patience and perseverance to get an animal within "our zone".
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Originally posted by 8th Dwarf:
Actually, for the good of bowhunting in general, it would be FAR better if there were NO hunting shows on T.V. Most are trashy, poorly done, bloody, and FEED the anti-hunters with more than enough ammo for their crusade.
For every good one, such as what Primos does, there are a hundred that are just plain lousy!
As Pogo said, "We have found the enemy and he is us!" Think about that, people!
Too Short
:notworthy: :notworthy:
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The only thing that influences any of these shows is ratings and sponsor dollars. There are many examples of the idiocy going on, on TV in the HIP forum now. Bad news for you, the only reason Traditional Hunters appear better is the smaller number of us. Rifle, compound, etc. all have more than a majority of ethical hunters also, but being so many more of them, the stupid ones make a bigger bleep on the radar. Tred Barta does the Traditional thing on TV and hows that been working out for us?
Heck the WHA made a format change and now all the money is running back to them. All of these companies that backed away from them are returning. Television seems to corrupt even the best of intentions.
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I'll help in anyway I can. There are enough of us here to make a interesting show. Need more good TV shows for younguns to watch anyway.
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Let me ask this. Do you who oppose a good show own hunting videos?
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I have a tendency to agree more with what Paul B. and vermonster say. Even the couple of 'trag' guys on tv are a 'little over the top' for me in terms of showmanship/personality......I want more of a quiet/solemn hunting experience for myself, so I don't get anything out of watching someone act for a camera.
I'd rather be in the shop tinkering with gear rather than sitting in front of the idiot box......but I do agree there is a need for quality shows since the outdoors network is not going away.
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I agree with Paul and Charles after recently subscribing to Outdoor Channel. The vast majority of big game hunting programs are offensive to me, AND non-hunters as well.
Arwin, I'm not suggesting we "crawl in a hole and back down". I'm not even talking about ANTIhunters, but rather the nonhunter who surfs by and forms an opinion from poorly presented programs.
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Don't oppose a good show on TV Arwin, just seems that no matter how good the intentions are, they end up changing for the sake of ratings and end up being more of an infomercial for sponsors. Also they all seem to feed into the antlers are king frenzy.
And no, I don't own any hunting videos, I prefer to go hunting when I can, not watch others do it.
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I can see where you guys are coming from and I respect your opinions. I know what you mean by the antler frenzy too. My wife, who doesn't hunt, commented on that one day. I guess how I see it, having a show that is representative of what we do, and with strong hunting ethics would be neat to watch.
Scary as it may be, a percentage of hunters who use compounds or guns, think that hunting with traditional equiptment is unethical and irresponsible(even though we know better). If their opinions scatter out to non hunters or anti's how long will it be before hunting with a simpler tool is challenged.
Pioneers like Fred Bear, Saxton Pope and Art Young, and a few others made movies and distributed them or showed them to the general public to show how effective simple archery equiptment is. If it weren't for those movies, how far along would bow hunting be today? Most of the bowhunting seasons today, are based on these guys examples of simple archery equiptment from years ago. To help preserve the heritage of our way of life, shows or videos recruit young ones with day dreams of hunting in far off places. I know watching Fred Bear, Ron LaClair(Michigan Outdoors), Bowhunting October Whitetails, influenced me heavily.
To each their own. I think we do need an ethical, informative and responisible traditional hunting show to support what we do. I'm going to sit back and observe some more comments and opinions. Maybe by hearing opinions good and bad would help in making the best show ever! :campfire:
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If you could get it made that way and stay that way, I would support it also. Now getting kids who aren't involved in hunting already to watch is a pipe dream I fear. It's not like the days of the past where the theater was the thing and TVs weren't everywhere.
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Get the Wensel Brothers on the TV! I bought Primal Dreams while I was in the states and watched it three times. And three times it brought tears to my eyes. I watch all the outdoor channel programs while I'm there as we don't get anything here. But like a lot of you have said, it gets boring and crass after a while. If they could show bowhunting with the love, respect and passion those guys have, then imagine what it would give the young people getting into bowhunting, or just hunting in general.
Graham
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Unfortunately, Graham, these tv 'hunting shows' seem to be more about the hunter's 'personality'-horns-using the sponsor's gear-etc. There are many quality 'how-to' videos on the market, but those don't get shown on the outdoor network.
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Obviously there must be a real hunger for more traditional bowhunting on TV. Tred Barta's show keeps repeating over and over on the Outdoor Channel. I have heard different compound shooters mention how they really like the show. The guy's definitely full of himself but you can tell he must have a following. The latest Three Rivers catalog has several of his products. It would be interesting if they at least made a pilot that portrayed your average stick bow guy each week - not necessarily the same guy over and over. My money would be on it being a real success.
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Very interesting topic, as my buddy & I are in the process of filming our hunts. We have a digital camera that easily could be edited into production quality. We just bought a DOUBLEBULL MATRIX, & are dedicating the entire 2007 season to hunting in the blind. What if there was a collective effort by the active,dedicated members of Trad Gang.com? Just picture this, if you will. As many of us from across the land collectively focus our efforts upon capturing quality production eligible traditional hunting footage."TRAD GANG.COM VIDEO PRODUCTIONS PRESENTS
"TOTALLY TRADITIONAL". An exciting,informative series that invites you upon an enlightening journey into the wonderful world of traditional archery. Tune in as TRAD GANG members, from across the Contentinental United States, share their experiences afield. Additionally there are opportunities to gain insight into the processes of string making, arrow building, longbow/recurve setup, selfbow instruction,treestand safety/setup, groundblind setup, and of course various hunting related tips. These are all available to you in our "THIS IS HOW WE DO IT!!!" segment of each show." " hunting adventures were experienced in natural environments. Hunts took place on either public/state game lands, or on private property, where permission was ethically secured with the landowner. One will never see a canned hunt, or a high fence on a TRAD GANG VIDEO PRODUCTION, as we like to do things diferently!!!" Anyway this is something I've thought about for a loooooong time. As most of you do, I've got several ideas to contribute. If nothing else we develope a 2.5hr dvd, & then submit the hunts for viewing, a different hunt each week. What do you think. I'll personally gaurantee right here right now, I'll do whatever I can to help this become a reality.
Dave Mullins
#11 4th Street
Winfield, WV 25213
304-542-8270
[email protected] :clapper: :clapper: :clapper: :pray: :pray: :pray:
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Yet another idea!!!!!!!! Each week there is a"Sponser's Spotlight". Sponsers from TRAD GANG.COM are interviewed and/or their business is highlighted and introduced. Heck we could talk to T.J. @ TBM. There are enough of us in the traditional that could really make this a reality. There are the TOTALLY FREAKIN AWESOME WENSEL BROTHERS that may be consulted. People w./ experirence in legal disclaimers, video production, marketing. DANG IT, I WISH I'D NEVER SEEN THIS POST :goldtooth: . I'll make sure to get good video footage.
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It sounds like a good start! From the amount of videos in the members forum, most have the capabilities to make this happen. Again, with the help of good editing and viewing each video turned in, we can make sure whats being put out represents the spirit of what we do. I think we're headed in the right direction. I like the idea of having a combined effort of all trad gangers to make it all "ours". Lets keep getting some more ideas and coments from everyone in here! Good or bad your input helps makes it better! :clapper: :pray:
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You have a great idea too about spotlighting some of the sponsers. There are alot of guys and gals putting out great products that can be shown. If we could get some of the well known experienced people to help.........oh man my heads going to explode!!!! Show some events like Comptons, and etc. There are alot of trad shoots that are great examples of our awesome community. I would love to see guys like "The Ferret" who hunts with self bows. I like the idea of having the common guy shown. Their reaction on film is way more entertaining than someone who's done it a thousand times. I feel traditional archery has just recently come back strong. I feel it may have gotten buried a little with technological advances in the last 20 yrs. After all, the simple stick and string is were it all began and it should regain it's place amongst the hunting community.
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ttt
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How about this."The 10 ring" A segment of the show that gives an announcement of upcoming 3D events throughout the usa. We could have trad clubs send in the dates. We could do it in the regions southeast/northeast/southwest/northwest/central USA. Just list 2-3 per region. Throughout the spring/summer we could announce an event 30days in advance to give folks a heads up. ALSO!!!!!
KIDZ CORNER!!!! With parental consent a trad active child's photo & nonspecific bio is highlighted on the show. Example: This week's KIDZ CORNER features Hunter mullins, from WV. Hunter likes to shoot his recurve. favorite target. some little stuff like that. Just another idea. :thumbsup:
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I'm sorry!!!! this will serve for 50 shows. Dnr update. each show will have a quick update about dnr goings on. :saywhat:
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I'm liking it! As mentioned too by some, that the focus WILL NOT be on trophy hunting or such. Any animal taken the hard way is a trophy! We need more input! Getting support from TBM or Primitive Archer magazines would be great. Black Widow is a sponser for Bowhunter Magazine T.V., maybe we could get sponsers like them to come aboard. Kids definitly need focus too. They are the future of our sport!
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Years ago, I got into it with the "Whack Master", Ted Nugent. I tried for hours to explain to him that the Anti-hunter is NOT our concern. The Anti-hunter will ALWAYS be just that...an Anti!
The NON hunter is the one with whom we should be concerned. The non-hunter tunes in to the outdoor channel and he/she WILL be offended.
Last fall I was in a camp with satellite T.V. and one of the guys put the outdoor channel on. I WAS OFFENDED! I saw people making gut shots on film, finding a stiff deer (supposedly an hour later), and then claiming for the camera that it was a great shot in the lungs. I saw the "Whopee" crowd who took all the respect for the animal away. I was disgusted. How would a non-hunter feel?
I will say that I have seen some of the Primos stuff and met some of there guys. They are first class. Why can't the others be?
Too Short
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I hear you Paul. I e-mailed one of the newer show hosts (hint - it's a married couple) and told them that their show wasn't bad until they started the "I just smoked, slammed, put the smack down, etc. on a great buck!" etc., etc. I told them it was demeaning to the animal and they deserved more respect than that. I did hear back from one of the hosts who said my point was taken and he said they'd try to watch what they say in the future. We'll see.
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On another site I had been working with a film group on an entirely different kind of show, but they faded away. If you are going to do a hunting show to generate interest here is my suggestion.
Pick kids from around the country and pair them with mentors. Record everything from their practicing and taking the Hunter Safety course to scouting, setting stands and actually hunting. Make it about the kids and the learning experience, emotional growth and learned respect for nature. Actually educate the audience on what goes into hunting not just what happens at the kill. There are plenty of shows that focus on adults hunting and they teach very little of real use to a beginner. You want to recruit hunters and get kids interested, then show them the way.
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Great idea Vermonster! I would like to see you and all others who have real concerns about hunting shows on t.v., being included on this "show" thing. Your beliefs and ethics would be a refreshing addition. My daughter and I went through the IBEP course this past fall and I seen a bunch of kids who would make great candidates for something like that. :thumbsup:
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I worked with Stoney Wolf Video Productions in the early 90s. We produced 13 hunting videos and before I would commit to them I made it plain that I had ultimate editing control.
The entire purpose of these films was to EDUCATE and INFORM. Entertainment was secondary. I refused to kill for the sake of getting a film finished. No blood and gore, no "pass throughs" repeated over and over. We got hundreds of compliments over the years we did this and no complaints.
So...why can't these new films be that way? The answer, I am sorry to say, is in those who watch the films. They WANT the joking, the blood, and the hero stuff. What a sad state of affairs!
I finally quit filming just for those reasons. Now I just hunt for the pure love of it. Hunting should never have become a spectator sport, in my opinion.
Too Short
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It sounds to me like you may have some connections, 8th! If this could be done in a fashion that was fitting to you and all others, would you be willing to help or give advise on how to get started? I wouldn't want it to be just for the sake of spectating, but educational. There are alot of new comers to our "family" who could use guidance from experienced people. Reading info is great, but sadly to say most people get their info from the t.v. nowadays.
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I would love to see a traditional only hunting T.V. show. More people need to see what traditional hunting is all about. Hunting is not a spectator sport but when your not out hunting there is noting wrong with sitting down and watching some. I would like to help out any way I could.
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When dealing with "viewers" on a national level, we have to realize it encompasses a full spectrum of humans, from curious unopinionated non-hunters all the way to the neon back slapping war whoopers who really believe that muzzleloaders are still primitive weapons. The Boone & Crockett Club brought out their own TV show last year (Big Game Profiles) that concentrated on the animals more than individual hunters. They stressed fair chase, ethics, conservation, etc. From my understanding their first season ratings were nothing special with most viewers simply seeing the shows as boredom. I cringe every time I see some guy blow away an immature buck the first day on stand, then turn to the camera and say, "We are DONE in Wisconsin!" as if he's on a job site.
We recently hashed over the possibility of making a half hour version of our Primal Dreams DVD to be distributed to junior high schools nationwide. Talk about a project that would influence hundreds of thousands of youngsters old enough to figure out that hunters are not all bad guys!
There is nothing wrong with having fun while hunting but we must never forget the element of respect when dealing with life and death.
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GENE!!!!!!! Thanks for your input!!! I wouldn't know the first thing on getting a show started. I've heard a few great ideas. You and your brother know more than most on the best way to go about this. We really need a completely traditional show on t.v. One done in the fashion of Primal Dreams would be awesome! I have a feeling there are many who visit this site and other trad sites who feel the same. Right now, other than a few glimpses on other shows, Fred Eichler is carrying the torch for traditional hunters on t.v., but he can't do a completely traditional show. Please help!! :notworthy:
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I like to watch hunting on TV but like the others here i get sick and tired of some of the disrespectful showboating. Don't get me wrong i have whooped it up a little when all the hard work and planning has payed off with a good buck etc. But some of the goings on that are viewed by a mass audience made up of hunters non hunters and anti hunters are sickening. Any one that has taken the life of an animal doesnt need to view on national TV a deer in it's last seconds of life followed by a victory dance and someone proclaiming, well i have done it. When we all know that working alone they couldn't successfully hunt and kill a paper bag let alone a pope and young buck . Most of the hunts looked canned. Show me fair chase and animals going about there every day business i don't mind a well placed shot in the picture but leave the rest of the gore and countless retakes out. And please don't show me a turkey that was just taken only to see it picked up and have it stick out straight from the guys back because it's stiffer than a board. I like real hunts not staged garbage. And some good trad hunts would be nice to see.
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Originally posted by Gene Wensel:
We recently hashed over the possibility of making a half hour version of our Primal Dreams DVD to be distributed to junior high schools nationwide. Talk about a project that would influence hundreds of thousands of youngsters old enough to figure out that hunters are not all bad guys!
There is nothing wrong with having fun while hunting but we must never forget the element of respect when dealing with life and death.
Gene,
A 1/2 hour production of "Primal dreams" made for schools is a near perfect project that all of us here could and should help you to realize, logistically AND financially, if needed.
Help us help you!!! :)
Thank you man
Alex
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Lot's of very, very good ideas. Mr. Wensel thank you very much for your input. As for the idea for school distribution great idea!!! :thumbsup:
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I agree with 8th Dwarf on this. My wife is a non hunter but supports my love of hunting. She knows the effort I put in to scouting, practicing and hunting and that I come home empty handed many,many more times than I manage to get one. She also knows that it really doesnt matter to me if I get one or not. But, she gets mad watching hunting shows she could easily turn into a anti hunter by watching these trash shows. As Paul said Heck they offend me..a hunter.
That said, A show that showed traditional hunting in a respectfull way, maybe interview boyers, arrowsmiths, interview some of the living greats, perhaps have segments about the greats who have gone on, a cooking segment, shooting style segments, maybe primitive bow building segments. I would love to see a show like that.
Mike
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Actually I think of this idea of a completely traditional bowhunting show often. I have promised myself that if my "ship ever comes in", I would focus on this project exclusively. Having managed a hunting/sporting goods business for several years, I have, unfortunately, seen most of all hunting videos out there. As many of you know, a sad state of affairs. From Nuge's obnoxious show to all the others, I spend the majority of the time completely offended by all the garbage being put out there at the expense of the animals we love. I use to con myself by saying that I watched this trash to see the all the wonderful animals, now, I search long and hard for ethical, principled, bowhunting. Very slim pickings. I really liked Vermonsters ideas and I will always appreciate Stoney Wolf's videos like "Dream Hunt". Hopefully someday someone within our ranks will try again. T
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Think about some of the other things that are done with film and TV series. In Europe I believe they show gory accident films to people who are convicted reckless/drunk drivers, stomach churning stuff. They are also obliged to work in casualty mopping floors of blood.The idea was to get them to think about their behaviour on the road. Series like ER, CHIPS,Miami Vice etc use the ugly parts of human life to 'bring out stories of heroism and the human spirit, blah blah' The fact is humans are visual creatures and the story lines are about humans. We are a self interested species, this is what makes TV so effective.
I agree with 8th Dwarf, 'Hunting should never have been made a spectator sport'. On the other hand I like the idea of showing all the other aspects of becoming a hunter and mentoring, because done the right way viewers might see the value from the process. Very occasional kills may show the result of things done well. I doubt that this could be done well in a way that attracts viewers. I fear that audiences are so trained by the media to seek 'action' and 'drama' ( hokey faked trash, think 'Reality' TV) and 'heroes'that such a show would flop. Most TV is on a simple formula, "Set scene, action, main character experiences adversity, action, success, hero shot, curtain." Ho hum.
It is the stuff that goes on in your head and your heart in the quiet, long hours afield that matters.That stuff is very personal and you can never show it honestly on a publicly broadcast film. Ask 8th Dwarf. The Wensels came closest with Primal Dreams.
Humility and respect are not 'TV' subjects in this era of simplistic, self interested, puerile, money oriented, mass-media productions.
"hunting should never have been made into a spectator sport"
Chris g
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Gene- I was so impressed with the shortened version of 'primal dreams'; that I bought the whole primal dreams cd for my sons/grandchildren.
I think you could do a good presentation in a shorter time.
While too short is right about the negative impact of shows- tv is the medium that gets the most attention.
And I am one that was 'genetically clicked on'- to bowhunting: when I saw Fred Bear on the American Sportsman show.
As we all know; Primos is a class act- even though Wills ears look suspiciously Vulcan :)
When you look at see 'Primal Dreams'; you know what can be taken from your heart: and put on the screen.
It can be done.... I am though: cautious about the thought.
Overall seems like the best idea is to get 'primal dreams' out there for bowhunter ed classes; and to show it to kids in school.
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I think my favorite hunting footage from a video is the fella with the longbow at the end of the Traditional Vision Quest Video. Shows the guy hiking in to his stand, mountains in the background, cold fall air, crosses a river, then gets a shot opportunity at a great buck. Never says a single word the whole time. A little guitar playing in the background and focused on the experience. Probably never find a high dollar sponser for a show like that. I can't stomach these shows where someone takes an animal then makes excuses like "well it's only a 5x5 bull, but it is the last day and we just didn't get a chance at the big one". The disrespect shown the animal with a comment like that is unfathomable.
A show concentrating on traditional archery, bowhunting and getting into the woods as an experience with a little how-to or woodcraft included would be great. A show that you could watch with your son or on a evening with a troop of boy scouts that focuses on a positive message and values.
Personally, I cringe when I seen OLN, or the Outdoor Channell and it's one more compound wielding snuff film after another.
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Totally agree Viking! Going over what I've read we have a great outline for an awesome show. There are alot of similar likes and dislikes. I think I may be making some calls or writing a few letters. I still like the idea of video contribuitions from everyone in here. That makes it everyones. How about,"Trails of the Trad Gang" for a title or "Trad Gang Trails"? I don't know, I'm just some dude behind a computer screen! LOL! I would really like to see a variety of stuff. I don't think I have ever seen a selfbow hunt on t.v. It should show the building of the bow all the way to the hunt.
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Arwin,
Ted Fry from Raptor Archery is giving his combo self bow workshop, bear hunt in Idaho this year. How about that for a show. Going to the mointains of Idaho to a remote hunting camp to build self bows and hunt bears. I would guess that there are more than a few of us who would enjoy being able to see that (wish I could afford to go myself).
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I really like Vermonster's idea: a show about KIDS, about learning, mentoring, growing up. All the hard work that goes into learning to hunt and learning to shoot.
There was a post on here a while ago by a young man in (sub?)urban California who really wants to learn to hunt, but has no one to teach him / help him. Perfect candidate! How many such kids and young adults would jump at the chance if only they had a chance?
Gene's Primal Dreams for schools also sounds fantastic.
I would love to help in any way I could.
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Like that idea Viking! It's that kind of stuff that would be neat to see. So many ideas in here to make three seasons of shows! :clapper:
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I think you guys are onto something here!!!!
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I like what I'm seeing here! Let's keep pushing these ideas, and it might just become reality.
How about doing OsageTree's "Home grown hunting equiptment,2007" edition.
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That's exactly what I was talking about earlier Arwin. Show the picking of the bow wood, the shaping and tillering, the finishing and first arrow to finally the one arrow that takes a deer. That would be a real journey that would fascinate many people. Come on, people watch mythbusters, American Chopper and other stuff, surely they would watch the makings of a bow. A Tradgang show would be the icing on the cake.
TimberBound
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What does it cost to put on a show!
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$50,000 for an hour of airtime on the Versus network. Plus all the costs in the making of the actual show. Better start saving.
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lol I hear that. What about a trad gang DVD just with the members hunts from the year, and maybe donate the money somewhere.
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Holy Moly! I didn't think it would cost that much for a show. Wifishkiller has a good idea. Make a members video and use the sales money for a good cause. If it comes out good maybe someone will pick it up and turn it into a program.
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Sounds good! If this is something that people will do it will give me a good reason to buy that gl 1
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$50,000/season. how many sponsors are on this site, & how many members are here. Could we use our strenght in #'s to generate a sizeable amount of cash? I'm just trying to think of a way to get it done. How,when,Who would/should develop a sound universal checklist of do's/dont's for all the participating members to adhere to, while compiling video footage. Is there one person, or central location where the video footage will be submitted for master editing? Can we get the moderator of this site involved, I've no clue who that is, sorry for my ignorance on that one. When do we try to collectively agree upon a reasonable time table to actually begin simpy obtaining/submitting video footage. Again I'll ask this question. Is there a need for a roll call, a committment list of members that want to voice their willingness to become dependable, consistent contributors to this project? Alot of questions, but I believe with each answer not only will more questions be raised, but ultimately we'll end up with a great universal operational concept with which to follow, and sort of keep everyone across the country on the same page. Am I making any sense?????
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An additional thought. I think it's safe to say that Primal Dreams is an absolutely phenomenal cinematic work :knothead: . I'm just really jacked up because this is important to me, It is a way of life for me, a guiding philosophy.We are engaged in great brainstorming. WE CAN DO THIS!!!!!!! :clapper:
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Originally posted by Gene Wensel:
We recently hashed over the possibility of making a half hour version of our Primal Dreams DVD to be distributed to junior high schools nationwide. Talk about a project that would influence hundreds of thousands of youngsters old enough to figure out that hunters are not all bad guys!
There is nothing wrong with having fun while hunting but we must never forget the element of respect when dealing with life and death.
I spoke about this to my fiance earlier today. She is a sixth grade teacher in Missouri. She told me all about the junior high shools providing Hunter Education in the school. This would be a perfect place to show what should be in the minds of hunters or anyone else that goes into the woods and mountains for that matter.
I recently met one of her students, a twelve year old boy who was absolutely crazy about bowhunting. I've left my copy of the DVD for him to watch and any of his friends that want to watch it also.
As for Arwin's idea about putting together a series from videos from Tradgang members, I can't think of a better source. One of the things that got me interested when I was a boy, was a program over here called 'Out of town'. It was presented by a guy called Jack Hargreaves. He showed all sorts of countrylife as well as fishing and hunting. It also showed him preparing for his trips out, for example, tying flies for a fishing trip. This was a no nonsense, practical guide to the ways of the then British countrylife. I'm sure this sort of format would still work today, given a little bit of thought and planning.
Graham
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Hey Uk thats great! I do have to be fair though. The idea for Tradgangers to send in their videos was "Lefty in WV"'s. I think it would be awesome. So many different people in here from so many walks of life. Different techniques and styles. I don't think a show like that would ever get boring! All of us specialize in a certain way of shooting or hunting thats unique to the person. It definitly wouldn't be the same thing over and over again.
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Sir I applaud your integrity!!!!
:clapper: :clapper: :clapper: :clapper:
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$50,000 per show
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I think a TradGang hunting DVD would be awesome!
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You know, after reading all this, I think maybe something really good COULD be done. Look at Primal Dreams...an AMAZING piece of film work.
In my opinion, what would be good would be to start at the beginning and have several well known traditional archers explain a history of our sport and especially the equipment we use.
One of the most critical views that would HAVE to be expressed would be the difference between hunting and killing and the love and respect for our quarry.
We need non-hunters to see how deep and all encompasing our sport is. We need them to see that it is HUNTING...not just shooting and killing. They need to know the incredible dedication that we all have to the sport of traditional bowhunting. They need to know that we choose to take the hard way...not the EASY way!
Someone could put together a really classy show, but it would have to be in installments...you can't do what is needed in an hour and a half.
Just some thoughts...
Too Short
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All right 8th! I'm glad your in! I would want a show that could express how we feel about what we do. I can't even put it into words how I feel about it. It's an inward/outward feeling. I am so passionate about traditional hunting that I think about it at least once every hour, every day. Traditional bowhunting and archery isn't something that I do, it's something that I am. If I wasn't allowed to do it, I would wither up and die. It's definitly a feeling from the heart. God made me a bowhunter and I take pride in that.
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The guys that have emailed me I'm sure are watching this thread.....I had no idea this thread had gone the way it had.
Great ideas gentlemen, keep them coming....ya never know.
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"I'm about 4 doughnuts out of camp..." That's absolutely hillarious...especially if you know "Biggie".
Too Short
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I too have to agree with 8th and the others who feel that the hunting shows on TV aren't for the good of hunting. It is a very rare day that I will watch one. In fact the last one that I saw was 2 guys in a cement bunker behind a high fence, and more ways to rest the rifle than you could shake a stick at. All to often these shows, make hunting look easy, and just about the destenation (the kill), very, very rarely is it about the journey. Gadgets, gizmos, endorsements, and huge antlers, are all that people see when they turn on one of these shows. As far as the manufactures, TV producers, and the hunters on most of these shows are concerned there is no traditional values in hunting, its just a paycheck, and 15 minutes of fame once a week.
>>>Tim------->
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Some are bad, some are NOT IMO Easton Bowhunting is not IMO, and neither are several others.
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I hear what your saying Tim. Your considerations are shared with many others. What all of us would truely like to see is a REAL story behind the hunts. No "superstars", no focus on big headgear, with total respect to the animals taken. If you browse through this thread there are some great ideas that could be realized with the support of everyone in here.
Showing our way of life on t.v., done correctly, could put a respectful view of who we are and what we are about. Longbows, recurves, and the traditional spirit, are the foundations of what bowhunting is today and what it has been for thousands of years. Yet it seems to be put on the back burner and overshadowed by new techno gizmo's, bad ethics, and bad sportsmanship. We need to put our tradition back on top where it belongs. The only way to do that is get it out in the open and share it.
Terry, thanks for your support! I'd like to see you doing what we all love to do too!!!! :campfire:
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That is exactly what I would call a show like I talked about earlier. "A Hunter's Journey"
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It really is a journey that thankfully never ends until we are taken by the Good Lord. Then a whole new one begins! :thumbsup: Good idea for a title.
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I'm not sure we're all even on the same page here. A TV show for the general public and school presentations to influence young minds are two different things. What do we want to accomplish with each or both? Recruit new traditional bowhunters? Are we looking for a TV show about traditional bowhunting or trying to explain why we hunt to non-hunters (and especially youngsters who will someday soon decide the fate of our passion)? The Easton show is not really about traditional bowhunting except for the fact Fred E. packs a recurve bow most of the time and has fun doing it. Fred does a good job. He has good camera presence and provides good footage and excitement in good taste. His show gives a positive image overall. I've never seen Tred Barta's show but he shoots a longbow. I did an expo for L.L. Bean with Tred last September and got to know him. He seemed to me to have his heart in the right place but comes across as too "hungry" to many of his viewers. The host of Taxidermy Trails tv show carrys a longbow too. His show is not real popular from what I can tell, as his episodes are fairly bland but he's still on TV. Gary Morris had one of the first outdoor shows. He used a longbow and presented great footage, music and substance but was cut for who knows what reason. I would be interested in knowing the reason Gary hung it up. Brad Smith did his selfbow thing as part of Gary's shows. I see very few 100% flyfishing shows on TV. Why? Because there is only so much interest compared to wide spectrum fishing by other means. An episode on how to tie an #18 dry fly with an egg sack would draw a very small audience. Most "hunting shows" on the air today require two kills per episode. Why? Because its what the typical viewer wants and/or demands. Sad but true. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the attention and interest span of many viewers has to be satisfied week after week, not just a couple episodes. It would be easy to fall short. Someone told me it takes only 16 minutes of footage to make a half hour show when you add in commercial time. Thats not a whole lot of time to tell and sell a way of life. On the other hand, the 16 minutes of footage has to be top quality footage, taken with quality cameras using good lens, in focus, almost ALWAYS on a tripod with good lighting, sound, etc. too. MOST footage considered worthy would be provided by amateurs who would get their feelings hurt to find their work left on the editing room floor. How many articles do you think magazines turn away for every one published? Feelings are hurt and people get pissed. I personally feel that talking heads for more than a few seconds are a negative on an outdoor TV show. The fewer the better. I'm not so sure the show would even need a host. Sponsors pay the way. $50K is a lot of money per show if that is the correct figure but in all honesty I feel the money and even the music would not be as hard to get as quality footage and material that would make each show special rather than the "Me and Eddie Kill a Couple Bears With Stone Points" type show. As I said, we have to decide who and/or what goal we would be targeting. Getting back to the school presentations, which is an entirely different subject than TV shows, I haven't even set foot in a school in twenty years. Schools used to have "assembly" in their auditoriums with educational films about whatever presented to all students. I don't even know if they do that anymore. Showing something along the lines of a half hour version of Primal Dreams as a part of a hunters safety program is one thing, but there again, we are not getting to ALL the kids. ALL youngsters need to be made (mandatory) to sit down and watch/hear our side of the story. The reason I see it best viewed by 7th and 8th grade levels is that they are mature enough to sit still and listen/watch, yet not old enough to be already brainwashed by the antihunting or "your mother shouldn't be wearing a real fur coat" type views that are more common when they are in high school and "think" they are already adults and are already old enough to vote, etc. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure there are exceptions but they shouldn't be too young nor too old to gain the full impact of "hunting for the right reasons." I'm getting long winded. Enough for now.
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Great post Gene!!!! I was wondering if some of you guys that know about camcorders could give use a few ideas what to look for in a camcorder for professional footage. I've been in the market for a while and there tons of them out there. Now I know you get what you pay for but I don’t want to be scared to use the thing either lol. Just a little insight would be great. I also think that maybe a good way to start this before with even think of a real TV show is just put together a DVD and see what kind of feedback we get? Anyway that’s just my 2 cents :thumbsup:
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You wrote a lot of what I have been thinking Gene, thank you for saving me the typing. LOL I think the best forum for this sort of thing would be a documentry set along the lines of a few kids from different backgrounds being introduced to hunting and their journey to and through their first seasons. PBS, Discovery and several other forums could very well be interested in such an effort and personally I would rather get our side out in front of as many non-hunters as possible and perhaps bring a few new hunters into the fold. The folks already doing this have places to go for entertainment.
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Have any of you watched the muzzleloader show- by Jim Shockey? He has a part of each week called 'the big ones'; where he shows old Howard Hill film clips.
It fills up some time; and most are pretty funny over- anything else; but Howard does shoot a longbow.
I actually enjoy Shockeys muzzleloader show more than 90% + of bowhunting shows- I don't hunt with a muzzleloader; but the show pictures hunting in a great light.
I would like to see Fred Bear clips in a traditional bow show. I am not sure of the cost...
Shockey also does something you don't see very often if at all on other shows- you see his elderly father and father-inlaw hunting.
While having kids in shows is nice- having two old buzzards battle each other: is probably some of the best footage on any outdoor show.
And too- for kids to see old guys out there- well I think it is important- real important.
Kids are encouraged to play football; basketball; baseball; and while they might see middle aged people enjoying softball; a kid cannot see any old people enjoying an outdoor activity - other than fishing.
I would think a good traditional bow show: would point out how archery can be a lifetime activity.
And people like me are living proof: that someone with no talent at sports can - with practice enjoy bowhunting...and fulfill a dream.
:campfire: :archer:
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Just got back from an early morning shoot in the woods and this thread has moved three pages!
Arwin, cudos to you my friend for pointing out my blooper. Lefty, my apologies to you my friend for not giving you the credit for the idea.
Mr Wensel, you are quite correct in stating that these are two separate issues, but I still think you should get that DVD into the schools. They are just crying out for stuff like that. IMHO. If we only put one youngster on the right road, we have gained two things. One more righteous heart and one less anti-hunter.
Graham
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Fred Eichler would be a good guy to ask questions to. He is a recurve shooter at heart but has to use a compound in some shows to satisfy one of his sponsors. I dont believe Tred Barta uses a sponsor. Not sure how that works out but is nice to watch an actual show that doesnt appear as one big infromershal. I dont know if Tred can be contacted but there would be another sorce of info. For something like this to work it would take the right person to take the bull by the horns. Whoever that person is they have some of the most pasionate people around behind them. I also dont think the show really needs some exotic location each week the vast majority of hunters think its neet to enhance there hunting in there own back yard.
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Gene, great to hear from you again!
I think we could accomplish all of the above. We could take a portion of what is made and use it for the classroom.
We could also have a show about traditional bowhunting, and explain why we do it in a way that would appeal to non-hunters. I have a gut feeling that this could be realized. It's just putting the pieces together. It sounds like we know what we all want.
It is true that some of our video sent in wouldn't get shown. There are many of us in here. But that fact, would make each of us strive for great footage and see hunting in a different light. Hunting with a camera has to be a challenge. I've never done it. I know there is a probability that my footage wouldn't get shown, but I would have fun doing it. My objective isn't to see myself on t.v., I want to see traditional bowhunting on t.v.,done in a fashion that is conducive to the tradition.
I also think that some of the footage that doesn't get aired could be used for a DVD. Someone had mentioned making a DVD to sell for charity. That way the majority of the footage sent in won't be wasted.
I hope people wouldn't get upset if their footage didn't make it. The traditional spirit is supposed to be selfless and willing to contribute to the greater good. All of us together could make something great. :archer:
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I will first say that I agree whole heartedly with what Paul Brunner has to say, I feel the same hunting should NOT be a spectator sport, and that 99.9% of hunting shows are in bad taste.
I grew up watching those Stoney-Wolf videos and they were awesome, I did learn alot watching them, I can say that the instinctive shooting production by Stoney-Wolf is what got me into trad gear, never looked back. Ha I bought a Schafer Silvertip because that is what I saw in Oct whitetails!!!!!! crazy now that I look back at all of it.
BUT I want to add this point, in this day and age hunting is a multi BILLION dollar "sport", these bad hunting shows are infomercials that sell some insane gadgets(hearing aids for hunting??) or how about "if you use this you WILL kill a ten pointer" yeah OK?? I hate this gadgets(most of them!, I do have a GPS :scared: ) but as long as people buy them I feel hunting is fairly safe.
It is hard for antis to shut down a multi billion dollar sport, they try to do it season by season, and they can do it but what would happen to Bass pro, or Cabelas, and the economy in general, how about the unemployment rate?????? it would take a lick and politicians know it.
Long winded this morning, about the project you guys are talking about, I think you can do anything you set your mind to and are stubborn(check my signature!) enough to see through to the end be it good or bad. Better pay attention to what these guys that have done that kind of stuff though.
GOOD LUCK,
I will help in anyway I can
Jason
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I already called Fred Eichler, and left him a detailed message. Additionally, I emailed TJ @ TBM. Mr. Wensel, as usual you bring up several great points of considration. This is exactly what this endeavor needs an authority directly,or indirectly shaping and guiding the creation/progress of this thought becoming a reality. I don't know if anyone else agrees w/ me but Mr. Wensel like it or not you are a leading authority in our traditional community/family. Personally speaking, I for one, take what you say seriously. You are right about people getting pissed, & feelings getting hurt. I would like to speak to every single person focusing on this project. WHEN we get to the point of submitting material PLEASE,PLEASE don't get sour if your stuff is not selected. I'd like to think of this as not a one time deal, but some sort of annual project. Just like when you started shooting your trad equipment for the 1rst time you prolly sucked, like most of us :thumbsup: . Since ,obviously we are a rural state, with very deep ties to our natural surroundings the introduction of primal dreams to any school for that matter would definitely be a welcomed addition to the classroom. :notworthy: :notworthy:
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Bowsite (http://www.bowsite.com/BOWSITE/features/articles/videotapeyourhunt/videoschool.cfm)
The link listed to the bowsite SHOULD take you directly to the very useful video lessons.
I would like to publicly thank Pat Lefemine for not only having a great website, but additionally providing a plethora of useful,entertaining, and insightful material. Pat as traditional archers we all appreciate you very much, thanks again. Dave Mullins. :clapper: :clapper: :clapper:
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OMG!!!!!!
Possible title
"TRADITIONAL BY NATURE" :clapper:
What do you think??? I won't get sour :mad: if you don't like it. :goldtooth:
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I am with Gene on the Gary Morrison thing ! Best hunting show's i have EVER seen ! I for one wish they would put them on dvd . , and on re-runs ! Very classy show ! Add to that his background music ! I for one hate the kill video , were its talking (whispering) kill to kill video ! LOVE Primal Dreams ,Vision Quest , The lost antler . ALL Top Notch ! This is very much how Gary Morrisons show's were ! Just my 2 cts......>>>-------->RIVERWOLF
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ttt
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Thanks LEFTY I wasnt sure if I could put that link on here
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Actually I'm not either. However, when Pat reads this entire thread, & understands what we are trying to accomplish, I can't imagine him having a problem w/ it. Perhaps he'll even contribute his experience/insight to help continue this project in the right direction. I'll say it again having the "powerhouses" of traditional archery collaborating, to whatever degree, will be a tremendous help!!! I just don't see how we can fail, as long as we all work on a united front. A collective force of dedicated,inspired traditional bowhunters. Although we are from across the nation, and perhaps the world, by gosh we combine our efforts/resources to a razor sharp point of focus, and as we say here in the hollars of WEST BY G** VIRGINIA "GI-R-DONE!!!"
:thumbsup: :campfire: :archer: :pray:
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Well, as we speak the SHOT show is being held in Orlando. In a conversation with Flip Pallot of ESPN's "The Walker's Cay Chronicle's" last month Flip said he was going to float the idea around to several industry "people" at the show . Flip is a trad bowhunter and wants to do a hunting show along the lines of his fishing show-more process oriented than kill oriented with good narrative and respect for the animal. I'm curious to see his discussions went.
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Originally posted by 8th Dwarf:
Actually, for the good of bowhunting in general, it would be FAR better if there were NO hunting shows on T.V. Most are trashy, poorly done, bloody, and FEED the anti-hunters with more than enough ammo for their crusade.
For every good one, such as what Primos does, there are a hundred that are just plain lousy!
As Pogo said, "We have found the enemy and he is us!" Think about that, people!
Too Short
I agree. I can't even watch most of what I see for hunting shows on tv. It's not hunting they show, it's more like a marketable form of entertainment. I cringe when people approach me about a show they saw on tv. I just tell them it's not reality, and I don't watch them because most of what your seeing is not an accurate depiction of how things typically take place. I think they've done more harm than good over time.
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It would be refreshing to see what REALLY happens. A hunter sits for 8-10 hrs. A group of nice doe come in, the hunter pulls back and sends an arrow right over the doe's back! :biglaugh:
Some of the stuff does look staged. Like on some shows you see that the camera man has reached the animal before the hunter does. Then it shows the hunter cautiously walking up to the animal, as if it were happening at that moment. I would like to see it recorded from the moment of the shot all the way through to the tracking. You can't re-create real emotion.
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I think the DVD and/or show would be awesome. Would love to video some of my hunts :D
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Yeah, I remember Flip talking about the hunting pilot when EDT interviewed him in TBM. If the Flipster doesn't have the connections to make it happen, makes ya wonder what we're up against. I do applaud what you guys are after. Flip's show was life changing for me when it first came on. Keep the fire burnin boys.
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Duckbutt, Flip just began a new fishing show on Versus "Fishing the Keys". It's pretty neat.
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If I hear anything from Flip about a new show I'll post it. I think he could do a trad show right. I think I'm with,I think it was Mr Dwarf, in that no shows would be best. But since that seems unlikely I think someone like Flip,(or Wensel/Mitten for that matter) needs to reset the bar.
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I DO NOT agree that NO shows would be best.....Good shows would be much better than no shows.....and even the shows that are there now are better than no shows....even if you don't like them.
Think about the ramifications if hunting were taken off TV today....think about it....
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Im with Terry Green on this one!
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Me too!
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I totaly agree with Terry. The best way to gain support for what we do is by bringing out into the wide open. If we are able to show hunting in an educational and responsible way, more non hunters would likely be influenced in a positive way.
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Terry you make a good point. I don't think we'll ever have to worry about hunting being taken off the TV. The shows, good or bad are here to stay. But I would like to voice an opinion that some of the stuff on TV now doesn't do hunters any favors. So far I have seen 2 shows that promote hunting competitions. I recall one episode where the guy shot a buck at a horrible shot angle because I think he said it would be his "best on film" or something like that.It wasn't about the hunt as much as it was about getting the buck on film for him. Apparently this is the "hunting" version of reality TV. The irony is that the hosts seem genuine and they could probably produces a really high quality show. They chose a different route which must be what the public wants.I respect their right to pursue this endeavor but I don't want the non hunters thinking that the reality of the hunt is all about the competition, which may be where hunting TV is headed.Look what happened to fishing on TV. First there was BASS then the redfish tour now there are billfish series, tarpon series,(where the sharks get their share) ,inshore series etc.
We certainly stood up and voiced an opinion about the WHA's effort to put "catch and release hunting " on the tube. If it came down to those type of hunting shows or none, I'll vote for none as I worry about the ramifications imposed by a non hunting public watching the bads shows.
As I said before, I hope the Pallot's, Wensels , Mittens etc might someday reset the bar and produce a quality hunting show.
I'm sorry for the long post, guys.
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That is why I really think there should be a program done for television. There could be a great video made but that would more likely be seen by people already involved in hunting. Put it on the air and chances are it will be seen by a wider variety of people. More people are willing to watch a program on the tube, than go out and buy a video. The majority here knows what we want. It's just gotta get made!
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I got to thinking about it; and you know; even with bad tv shows; the worst enemies we have: out number them 100 to 1.
I grew up reading National Geographic Magazine; and it was a magazine about anthropology and biology; and although I read every article from 1915 through 1963... I don't remember any 'anti-hunting' articles.
Certainly: I did NOT read all those magazines and walk away an antihunter.
In fact: I used to read about Jane Goodall and think what a great scientist she was... now the word 'was': overpowers my thinking about her.
But when I now watch the tv show: it is obvious that hunting is the subject of negativeness with nearly every show.
They show elephants in danger and a handfull of hunters standing near a dead elephant. They do not talk about the positive aspects of hunting at all. Worse: they ignore the positive things that have been done with hunter money to keep species alive and safe from poachers- and protecting habitat.
They always seem to reference every species as a survivor of hunting- not a benefactor of it.
Its not a biologically based; conservation based show.
I see anti hunting stuff everywhere on tv. Murders have their start with hunting; Jeffery Dahmer 'killed for fun'.
Its like hunting is the gateway drug that leads to all bad human behavior.
So- while we ponder if we can make the perfect show- lets not forget that an imperfect show is not going to be our demise; it is the efforts of the great showman of tv- the Jeff Corwins and Behr Gryls- and others that speak as if hunting is not natural; or excepted human behavior.
Yes- we could make a show that we might not be happy with; or really push the excellence of 'primal dreams'.
But to think this is only about us making a tv show and determining the outcome of hunting- and that there is not a negative overwhelming presence out there working against us; is just not logical.
I have heard the expression that 'if your not part of the solution: your part of the problem'; and I believe: we have to think about that.
We can turn off our tv's; or turn the channel; but it will not stop kids and non-hunters from having input about hunting.
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I obviously don't speak FOR the North American Bowhunting Council(a consortium of all state and national bowhunting organizations), but as a board member I bet you that Gene's idea for a shortened Primal Dreams in every school is something that organization would get behind.
That means money to fund the production of the videos.
I will "fly the flag" with NABC as soon as Brothers of the Bow says 'go for it' to see what kind of response we get.
You and I don't NEED another hunting show...the anti's don't need another hunting show. But the children of the majority of the public? They need to hear OUR side of the story, and if they do, we WILL reach their parents more by getting through to the kids first than we ever will with hours and hours of expensive television programming. I am definitely for the video in school thing.
By the way, my teenager tells me they have cable tv in all the classrooms now, with closed circuit internally, so they could get ONE copy of the DVD at each school and play it to everyone without the need for an assembly. Just a heads up on the technology end of the thing.
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Mark Horne and I are shooting TV Shows for the upcomng year. I also have Fred Eichler shooting shows along with several other traditional oriented shows trying to negotiate to shoot shows as well. Hopefully these few shows will start to give the world of Bowhunting a fresh new view on the old original world of bows and arrows before wheels and techlology took such an incredible hold on the world of viewers of TV Outdoor Shows today. CK
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I know it's strange that recurves and longbows are the foundatiion of bowhunting, yet get minimal exposure. Most of us in here who watch shows on t.v. are forced to see wheelie bow action. I shouldn't say forced cause I could always turn the channel, but to what? The View? LOL!
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I watched Mike Eastman go after Caribou with a recurve. He didn't get one but he tried!
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EVERYONE who is prodcuing a TV show or DVD is making $$$$ and that tends to cheapen them all.
I think we'd be better off without them on TV cause it makes them readily available to the non hunters and you gotta admit; most are less than ethical. If they had to buy one, they wouldn't.
Bowhunting is a personal thing. It isn't a spectator sport. I'm guilty of watching some of them. I've even been in a few but still say our image as sportsmen would be better off without the TV shows.
And I REALLY hate to agree with the short guy.......
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My Mother-In-Law and Father-In-Law started to get into the hunting show world and they have all the cameras and equipment. The problem is that they are gun hunters and had to much to compete with (didnt have the funding that the others had). I think this idea is great. I am tired of seeing all these big name shows going out to these high priced ranches and killing another trophy. I would like to see the whole hunt and the equipment, etc....
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Biggie......you're gonna have to think about it a little harder Sir. :)
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I really think this needs to seriously get looked at. I've posted the same thread on two other web sites and there is a big demand for a trad only show. Just about everyone has stated that their concerns are not having too much focus on trophy hunting, respect for the animals,good ethics, and not just a show about killing. I posted on stickbow.com and tradtalk. On stickbow there is another off shoot thread about what people would like to see in a trad video, but it turned into what people would like on a tv show. Again there is a serious demand for such a thing, I think we need to pay attention.
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Guys, I have not met an archery shooter or enthusiest(sp) that does not think that making your own hunting equiptment is the ultimate challenge. So I want to take this back to Osage Tree's "home grown hunting equiptment" kind of idea. With the right personality on the show, we could capture alot of attention. People would want to catch the next show just to see what this guy is going to make next. I think the audience would be pulling for the host to connect on a harvest so hard (like we were for Osagetree) after all the effort involved in making the equiptment. But, if the hunt was not "successful", he/she would still be applauded for the effort involved.
I'm not trying to take anything away from the other methods of trad shooting, I just think the trend to go to a simpler way of life could be captured in a captivating way with this format.
Any input on this thought?...I know that I would be GLUED TO THE TUBE if this were a show...Terry
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IMO all types of tradtitional archery (including primitive) should be included in the show...still think the best idea is to have guys send in their own videos. Would have lots of variety.
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Im in for sure!! My pardner and i have been filming our hunts for a while now. We do a lot of the stuff a little on the wild side. We get tired of watching deer, and turkey, and black bear. So we go after squirrels, rabbits, bullfrogs, predators. Of course we still hunt the usuals too though.
We just bought a canon xl-2. Cant wait to try that baby out.
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ttt
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Well, I have read the entire thread and would like to throw a few things out here. I would also hope that I don't get ripped on, or looked down upon for my opinion. Let me start with one show, Tred Barta. As Gene stated, Tred is a bit too "hungry" for most viewers. I have not met Tred, but also feel his shows put more of a negative aspect on our traditional way of hunting. Way too many times have I heard him say- "my self imposed 20-25 yard limit" and yet he flings arrows at 65 yards towards running caribou, 45 yard shot at mule deer doe- on full alert, etc. My wife was watching with me during the caribou episode, (which she normally chooses not too watch hunting shows, too much horn porn) and she said, wow- he's a pretty good shot, I'm sure he could kill one if he shoots enough times, but how many will he hurt in the process? I know Tred has his heart in the right spot and wants to do things the hard way, but he needs to realize that his actions represent each and every one of us. I go in to my local sporting goods store and my compound shooting buddies are asking me if I saw Tred "spraying and praying" during his show. These comments do nothing but tick me off, because that is not why I choose to hunt with a recurve. I have watched Fred E. and am ok with his shows. The only real difference is you could swap his curve for a wheel bow and not much would be different. IF- and a pretty big IF, someone would begin to produce a Trad only program, they would have to be the most ethical hunter they could possibly be. They would have to portray OUR way of hunting as the true challenge it really is, close is still not close enough. I know that many of us miss, I did twice this year, I just don't want to see a show where we are portrayed to take marginal shots, show crappy hits, numerous misses, etc. I know that I read a comment from Gene, or on a video, that many trad guys shouldn't be allowed in the woods with a bow because they can't shoot worth a hill of beans. I am not the best shot, but can consistently kill my mackenzie at 30 yards all day long. Real animals are a different story, they can react, and duck arrows, or whatever. I would really like to have someone produce a TRUE to life show, that outlines the hunt, shows the scenery, the wildlife, etc, and of course a successful harvest at the end. I just don't want someone with deep pockets stepping up and producing something along the lines of Treds show. Tred has great scenery, and shows the stalks, etc, but really blows it when the shots come, and is way too "over the top" in your face type of guy. I think someone needs to convince Gene and Barry to take the Mitten boys and tape a show on their Texas pig hunts. They know how to show our sport in the correct light, and are professional, but have a great time with life. I just think it would be a burdon to them, that would take away from their reason to be there, the hunt for themselves. Well, I'm done, I hope I made some type sense with all of this....
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DRR324,
I think you said it pretty well.
Treds caribou show mystified me. I can't figure out why he did what he did. It sure didn't put him or trad archery in a very good light. Problem is he tries to make the longbow look more difficult then it really is.
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I can't lay this one to rest yet. TTT!
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Dug this up for the fun of it. It's cool to see that it all happened into the Trad Gang. video :clapper:
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Originally posted by ozarkcherrybow1:
Guys, I have not met an archery shooter or enthusiest(sp) that does not think that making your own hunting equiptment is the ultimate challenge. So I want to take this back to Osage Tree's "home grown hunting equiptment" kind of idea. With the right personality on the show, we could capture alot of attention. People would want to catch the next show just to see what this guy is going to make next. I think the audience would be pulling for the host to connect on a harvest so hard (like we were for Osagetree) after all the effort involved in making the equiptment. But, if the hunt was not "successful", he/she would still be applauded for the effort involved.
I'm not trying to take anything away from the other methods of trad shooting, I just think the trend to go to a simpler way of life could be captured in a captivating way with this format.
Any input on this thought?...I know that I would be GLUED TO THE TUBE if this were a show...Terry
I just read this for the first time :notworthy:
Where do I sign up, my bags are packed, I work for room and board and I never draw my bow until my deer are less than 15yrds away. :archer:
Honestly, I was extremly honored that my endevor was mentioned!
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that would be an awsome show!!!!!!!!!
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An all traditional show would be great but I do fear that(as Biggie stated) money would ultimately ruin a good thing. My senses have been dulled to the "shoot to kill/thrill" outdoor programs. I am so tired of seeing people like Stan Potts and the Nuge take poor angle shots and turn to the camera and say( I didn't like that angle but it was my only shot and he was HUGE!!!!"
I do love the traditional videos though so we can keep them comming! :)
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Originally posted by 8th Dwarf:
Actually, for the good of bowhunting in general, it would be FAR better if there were NO hunting shows on T.V. Most are trashy, poorly done, bloody, and FEED the anti-hunters with more than enough ammo for their crusade.
For every good one, such as what Primos does, there are a hundred that are just plain lousy!
I agree. There are a lot of really good points discussed in this thread. I really don't watch any hunting shows on TV nor do I watch many hunting videos any more. I used to watch a lot of them but at some point they just started to leave a sour taste in my mouth. The Primo's videos are about the only ones I'll watch, for the most part they seem to respect the game they pursue and don't over glorify the kill.
The problem I have with most of them is that they only focus on the kill. They all portray the image that the kill and a monster rack is what it’s all about. Unfortunately a LOT of hunters think this way so it appeals to a lot of people.
Hunting for me is about the months of anticipation. Days spent shooting at the range or in my back yard. Scouting for that perfect spot. Sitting in the woods for hours not seeing any deer but being fascinated buy the little red squirrel that sits on my knee and stares at me because he can't figure out what I am. Listening to the wind blow through the trees and smelling the sweet musty aroma of the fall woods.
The aspects of the hunt I love most just don't make for good television. They are things that have to be experienced first hand to be appreciated. I wouldn't want to watch it on TV; I'd rather experience it myself.
On the other hand, I have spent hours and hours watching/reading the how to threads on this site and the watching the "Masters of the Barebow" DVD. These are things I can enjoy because I feel like I'm actually learning something in the process. I would love to see some kind of "New Yankee Workshop" for Archery. Also include some instruction and, as some others have said, show clips of hunter education or other activities that hunters participate in to benefit game and the environment.
Anyway, that’s my 2 cents, sorry for going on for so long on an old topic.
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if yall do get this put together will you try getting it on the outdoor cannel cause i dont get MOR any more
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Well, we didn't throw the baby out with the bath water on The Bowhunters of Trad Gang DVD! I think those that order it will be very pleased...and we've got some ideas for Volume II....as well as commitments already for footage!
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I did order my copy of the new DVD, I've yet to see anything bad come from this site. :thumbsup:
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Terry, I can't wait till my copy comes in!!!! I'm hoping to have some footage to send you this next season.
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Arwin,
I would very much like to see a good Traditional Archery/Hunting TV show. After all, I love to hunt with a longbow, I enjoy reading TBM, I go to Tradgang.com everyday to hear what people have to say, I like hearing the stories other Tradbow hunters have to tell....so sure I would enjoy watching a quality TV show about Traditional Archery. The key is quality. It doesn’t have to be entirely about the hunt, but could show some tips & tricks about different aspects of traditional archery. I have some videos such as Lost Antler, Primal Dreams, The Masters of the Barebow which I consider to be in good taste and I ordered the Tradgang video and can’t wait to see it. To enjoy traditional archery as much as I do and to feed on it from various sources such as books, magazines, web sites, etc., and then to say I wouldn’t want to have a quality Traditional Archery/Hunting TV show available would almost seem to be a contradiction to my own interests. So if one becomes available, I sure would appreciate knowing about it.