I have been a member of this forum since 2006 but have only shot Trad for 3 years and have yet to hunt with one as I always grabbed the Xbow or compound. Well I sold off that stuff to dedicate myself to my old and incoming recurve. When I began shooting I took arrows I had from my compounds anof various weights, spines, diamaters ETC. threw on some feathers and had at it. I actually suprised my self with how good I became but still never thought of the recurve as a hunting tool. I will admit some arrows flew better than others but I also found out some of that had to do with my poor fletching abilities, using straight clamp, cheap feathers and such. well I have moved on to a left wing shield feather and clamp with great results and it has me wondering. Do some like to make things difficult or is it just me? Seems to make no difference what arrow I shoot they still go where I want them too. Ok 20yards is not long range but it's a start. When do you really start noticing arrow affect or are some people just not so picky? I shoot with a bunch of guys and there are two of us who get teased as we both shoot grabim arrows as the other guys say. We just grab whatever and shoot, while the other guys debate spine, foc and whatever else. For what it's worth I am now shooting an old York Cresent 51" at 28" with a 29" draw, and sorry for the long post.
i would say if your gonna hunt , tune up a set of good arrows for the hunt(proper spine) and use the others for beatin around with....imo
Tuned arrows are a big deal, the question is how good do you want to be un matched arrows may shoot in pie plate at 20 yard. I want to shoot in a pie plate at 60 and silver dollar at 20 + tuned arrows transfer energy into the animal so much better from a ethical stand point this is a big deal. Keep in mind shooting at 20 yards you shouldnt be able to see arrow flight if you can your form is falling apart. there is alot of info out there on how to tune
To each his own-you can keep it simple or make it as complicated as you choose.
When you want to shoot a live target it makes all the difference. Way too many variables can and do occur when one tries to kill an animal. Making sure that your bow and arrows are tuned takes that variable to a minimum. To ensure the best penetration you must have tuned equipment. Sure , one can hit a stationary target with fletched arrows of different spines, try to shoot a deer with a fletched arrow that is spined incorrectly for your bow and your diminishing the effectiveness of your equipment. Not a good feeling to see a deer run off with minimal arrow penetration beacuse arrow was not tuned to bow.There is so much information on this web site (beauty of the internet age) that there is no excuse to hunt with anything less than a properly tuned bow/arrow.
bigugly1, direct answer to your question....yes, some people love to complicate simple things. Traditional bows and arrows are about as simple as it gets. Do you think the Indians worried about their FOC %, grain weights. and single or double bevel broadheads? I doubt it. They managed to feed themselves quite nicely for centuries. Ishi had terrible form by today's standards, but survived on it.
For those who love to tinker, they can have at it. That's one of the things so great about our pasttime. I pursue it to get away from the complications in my life--my little way to slow the world down a bit. I don't fiddle with my arrows, prefer mostly cedars and simple heads that don't cost $30 each and find that my set-up kills everything I want to kill with it as long as the arrow hits where it should. I can't stand arrows flipping in flight, though, but have found that I never have trouble getting them to fly well right off the bat......Dave
I have been berated for not bare shaft tuning and have been told I would get flatter trajectory if I used 5 inch feathers instead of 5.5 highbacks. I just pick a spine, go 5 pounds heavier and add the feathers. I have been able to shoot broadheads right with the field points and I get good arrow flight too. I believe good form has a lot to do with it. Some people worry too much.
i just got in to trad. about a year ago.started out grabbing a recurve and some arrows started shooting.i felt i was coming along well and even took 2 deer this year.then started hearing my shaft are to stiff,brace height all wrong,need more tip waight on and on.so i went to tinking and just got plain frustrated to the point of thinking about back to compound.came to my sences.if it aint broke leave alone and just have fun.
Sounds like you may except poor fligght as part of trad, many people do and that is wrong.
Search for the correct arrow till you have lazer beam flight just like your old compound.
I have been building arrows for 25 years now and have seen it all and tried it all. All you have to do is just get the spine of the arrow close and put some feathers on and go shoot and have fun.Keep it simple and enjoy shooting!
A big 10-4 perfect flight means awesome penetration. Arrows the kick mean half the penetration.
My complications have been solved by lucky accidents.
I guesstimated by the old tried and true methood of spine/deflection and got lucky. My old simple alu arrows flew just as true and well (2117's) from my new curves and LB's as they did from my first curve (1968 Super Kodiak)
I have, over the years since then tried several other arrow set ups. This was before I knew about FOC and HFOC etc and single bevel BH's. Outcome... Nothing has changed. I still shoot some alu arrows but have gone to mostly a tapered carbon shaft (toughness) and continue to use double edged two blade BH's.
Do I tinker... you bet. At my age that is important. Gives me something to do..... Will I stay with what works.... Yep.
Now, all that having been said... I have a new bow due to arrive inside of five weeks. I have arrows that "should" work perfect on that bow. However, I am working on new arrows based on ALL THIS NEW INFORMATION..... its kinda fun. Basically I am transfering data from one system to another simular system with minor modifications. In this instance its not complicated, its fun for me.
I will continue to use the base data I have to make decisions in the future on what arrow set ups to use. Remember "data" is a word that used here means what I already know works. I did the compound thing back in the 80's with the overdraws etc trying for that last FPS to help trajectory... Now, I am a happy camper.
After all that rant, I agree with you but I do really check my arrow performance.
Some folks like to tinker with stuff, some dont. I dont, but I do want arrow flight as close to perfect as I can get it. I dont consider using properly spined arrows being over complicated, I do consider hunting with un-tuned equpment as being lazy.
Eric
Amen brother!
If it works, and your happy with the results, go with it. After all, you are the only one you need to answer to when things go either bad or good.
Complex or easy is up to you.
Actually, I think we talk a whole lot more about bows when it's really well matched arrows that are more important for consistent accuracy. My .02
I do believe a Trad shooter should thrive for and expect accuracy and I do not use it as a cause to offset poor performance. Now that I'm going to hunt with this I'm thinking maybe I should do some arrow work I just don't want it to turn into my old ways with compound where I had to just try out all the ways of arrow tuning to the point I couldn't keep track of what I had done. Thinking I'kk just pick a method, give it a go and see how it works out.
Its not that I "think"....I "know" that my arrows should fly true. "Some" work must be put into coming up with a set-up of arrow shafting and components that bring you to where you need to be. Sometimes you make educated guesses or use calculators or what have you, to build your arrow. Sometimes it may be a combo of luck and/or experience or knowledge and you come up with a winning combo without much work or spending a ton. Sometimes you spend money on the wrong stuff. What Im getting at here is this.....theres coming up with an arrow scheme that works great, and theres going nuts and losing sleep about it, thinking "yeah, but can I get my flight even better!" Kinda a "if it aint broke" type thing! I feel like I fade in and out of both mind sets. Even though I may get good flight, I may experiment with something ....just to see! and it may work or may not. Theres no right or wrong, its just what YOU want....within reason....arrows HAVE to fly....STRAIGHT AND TRUE! So, some people do make things more difficult. Sometimes they dont mean to....it just happens! Because those "some" are just in love with this sport! Dont know if this helped in the slightest way by the way! :laughing:
There can always be exceptions, however if your BH's hit spot-on with your field points, then it is highly likely you are good to go. Tuned arrow, Sharp BH, reasonable arrow wt and shot placement are key ingredients.
Not even counting the time spent shooting bows as a youngster, I've been shooting for about 50 years, off and on, mostly on lately.
Shot wooden bows, fiberglass, fiberglass laminated, shelf, no shelf and all kinds of arrows that I know now were mostly too stiff. First shot of a new set of fiberglass arrows 40 years ago, I hit the wand I was shooting at. Arrow didn't know it was too stiff. Been making my shafts for a half dozen years now. Usually check spine, but sometimes end up shooting odds and ends of different batches made for myself and others.
In all that time, NEVER ONCE had an arrow "kick" on a GOOD RELEASE. Bad release, all bets are off.
I know I'll never be as good at this as some of you who can make your arrows kick, porpoise, fishtail, hit point high, point low, fly left, fly right and who knows what else.
My hat is off to you.
Yes things can get over complicated but a good set of concistent tuned arrows is worth a little effort. Coming from a recent convert I can tell you that going from grabin arrows to a set of the corect arrows for your bow or at the least a set of the same arrows will make you a better shot. You wouldn't shoot your compound without tuneing it so why not tune your arrows for your trad gear. Now for foc, fletch differences ... that is up to you.
I have seven different draw weights but only make up arrows in three different spines - all cut to the same length. My light bows shoot the heavy spines and my heavier recurves (cut past center) shoot anything pretty well. But when you get the bow tuned and the spine right the shaft leaves with imperceptable wobble and the penetration difference - even on foam or straw - is very obvious.
You can also see the difference in accuracy - especially if you go too far underspined.
You can keep it simple or complicated but any and all arrows fly best when STRAIGHT.
Carbon and Aluminum users don't worry about this much, which simplifies things alot, but with wood you need to be constantly checking them (including the point straightness).
All other factors considered, Straightness trumps them...... ?
QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
To each his own-you can keep it simple or make it as complicated as you choose.
Amen, Bjorn! Whatever floats your boat, eh. I like to keep things pretty simple these days, having shot a few different bow and arrow combinations to just know what works and what doesn't. But some fellows love pondering things down to the last fraction of a millimetre, and if it brings them joy, then good on them.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ben Kleinig:
QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
To each his own-you can keep it simple or make it as complicated as you choose.
Amen, Bjorn! Whatever floats your boat, eh. I like to keep things pretty simple these days, having shot a few different bow and arrow combinations to just know what works and what doesn't. But some fellows love pondering things down to the last fraction of a millimetre, and if it brings them joy, then good on them. [/b]
:thumbsup:
I like to keep things simple but correct. With two young kids eating up my time and not a very big house for a tinkering room, I just do the best I can to make sure my arrows fly straight and flat. I concentrate my reading to spine weight :readit: and bow function, and concentrate my practice time on good release :goldtooth:
QuoteOriginally posted by Friend:
There can always be exceptions, however if your BH's hit spot-on with your field points, then it is highly likely you are good to go. Tuned arrow, Sharp BH, reasonable arrow wt and shot placement are key ingredients.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
:thumbsup:
quote:
Originally posted by Osage61:
I like to keep things simple but correct. With two young kids eating up my time and not a very big house for a tinkering room, I just do the best I can to make sure my arrows fly straight and flat. I concentrate my reading to spine weight :readit: and bow function, and concentrate my practice time on good release :thumbsup: My scenerio exactly. You couldn't have explained my situation any better and I couldn't agree more! :archer2:
I have to say I started with the basic arrow and 125gr heads(kept it simple) and then after a few years(this year and last ) I tried to get on the heavy head boat,but after asking ?'s and trying different set ups I still cant get it right(I still have a curiosity with the heavy head thing mostly cause I didn't get it to work the way I wanted).So I always go back to the simple set up (125gr heads and a good flying shaft) and thats what works consistent for me.I do play with fletching size(5 1/2 high backs to self cut low profile) and type(goose and turkey )I even got away from the decorating my arrows for the Beverly Hills look, and now keep them simple and functional.I focus on what works and not what fits in and it always helps me to be able to see what I may be doing wrong with my form and such, rather than thinking it's always the arrow's fault. Shoot what works it's only you and the animal out in the woods, You have to be comfortable with it.Good luck
I guess I must of done some tuning but truthfully I don't remember much about it been shooting 2216 aluminums for over 40 years and never saw any reason for change
some of the stuff I read on here makes my head spin to be honest all the FOC stuff ect,
I don't doubt its true just never needed to worry about it archery comes natural to me I guess
Sometimes, people blame their equipment too much to disguise their poor form. Any way you look at it, if you're hitting the center at 20+ yards consistently, you're doing something right. If you can hit that with random arrows, more power to you. Some people take the consistency of their arrows as a nice little confidence boost that makes them more accurate, while others get frustrated and blame their equipment for their shortcomings. I would definitely shoot properly spined arrows whenever possible; if they're too stiff, they smack the riser, make noise, and tear up your fletching.