Post by: Ghost Dog on January 11, 2007, 12:43:00 PM
During our conversation he mentioned to me that he had noticed that straight grained yew used as a core material was producing faster arrow flight in his bows, all things being equal. I found this really interesting, as actionboo is such a popular choice these days.
I own several bows from this particular bowyer. All of them are the same length, two have natural bamboo cores, two have actionboo cores and two have yew cores. All are within two pounds of each other and all have the same string materials.
I do not own a chrono, so this is not meant to be a conclusive test, but I do have a couple of arrows that make a screaming sound when they reach speeds of 170 fps, or greater. I am sure that you know what I mean by this.
The upshot is this; the yew cores are faster by quite a bit, even when some of the bamboo cored bows had a heavier draw weight than the yew cored bows. Aside from the arrow report, I can see the difference too. There is also no noticeable difference in "hand shock" either, which might be expected to be less with the lighter bamboo cores.
Now I am not an arrow speed guy in the least. I am most at home with a fine selfbow as many of you know, and speed is not a selfbow issue as much as it is with glass laminated bows. I just thought that this was an interesting discovery on the part of my friend the bowyer, which my own small time test seems to agree with.
Now what does any of this mean? Maybe it means that in a good bow design a wood core is just as good, and maybe better, than a bamboo/actionboo core, but with so many variables in bow designs, a real conclusion would require real tests, as much as the screaming arrow test appeals to me. :)
Post by: LBR on January 11, 2007, 12:53:00 PM
I agree that bow design can play a part also. Marc (the bowyer) plans to keep experimenting, but to date they still don't offer bamboo limbs.
Chad
Post by: Pete W on January 11, 2007, 01:02:00 PM
Are all risers the same length?
Are the only diferences in the limbs the core material or are there other diferent woods/veneers in them?
Are they all the same model and with the same amount of reflex/deflex?
Is the nock fit the same on all of the strings?Have you tried using the same string on each bow so nock fit and string weights will not be diferent?
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 11, 2007, 01:17:00 PM
Are all risers the same length?------Yes.
Are the only diferences in the limbs the core material or are there other diferent woods/veneers in them?------All have veneers.
Are they all the same model and with the same amount of reflex/deflex?------Exactly the same.
Is the nock fit the same on all of the strings?------ Yes.
Have you tried using the same string on each bow so nock fit and string weights will not be diferent?-------Yes.
Post by: Pasty Face on January 11, 2007, 01:19:00 PM
Cool
Post by: Pasty Face on January 11, 2007, 01:20:00 PM
Post by: Plywood Bender at Work on January 11, 2007, 01:30:00 PM
I believe this. I also believe you would have similiar results with red cedar, black walnut and other light hard woods. I think the laminated bamboo might be slightly tougher in the long run. Now, did you try a bow with bamboo that wasn't laminated? I think much of the benefit of bamboo, light vs strength, is lost when you add back in the weight of all those glue lines.
BTW- to date the best shooting LB I've made has black walnut limbs and running a close second is one with red cedar.
That's my opinion, your mileage may vary.
Carl
Post by: Lefty on January 11, 2007, 02:22:00 PM
Does yew have the smooth draw feel that bamboo or actionboo does? I never shot a yew core bow before, but really like the feel of bamboo in the limbs.
Chris
Post by: Dalebow on January 11, 2007, 02:45:00 PM
I have several yew limbed bows and boo cored bows and think they do pull smoother than boo and boo is pretty darn smooth!! One exception is an Adcock and that is because that design is pretty perfect, I think OL could use plywood and get a great limb
Dale
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 11, 2007, 03:38:00 PM
Lefty, I think a smooth draw is based on many different factors, one of which is expectation, if you get my meaning. Bow design will always be the biggest factor contributing smoothness of draw, coupled with a draw weight that one is conditioned to.
Post by: James Wrenn on January 11, 2007, 05:58:00 PM
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 11, 2007, 07:02:00 PM
Post by: Keith Deters on January 11, 2007, 07:14:00 PM
My comments are about using it in bamboo backed bows. I don't know why anyone uses it. It takes so much set that just about any domestic hardwood will work better. I think many new bowyers like it because it's hard to break. It will make a bow, but so will many other woods, with much better results. IMO.
Post by: LBR on January 11, 2007, 07:20:00 PM
I agree with Ghost on the smooth draw--going by feel isn't always accurate, especially if you are "testing" your favorite against one you haven't shot. The scale tells the tale. When I scaled my personal yew-limbed longbow ([email protected]), it gained a consistent 2.5 pounds per inch out to my draw length. Didn't think to check any further.
I'm not a bowyer and don't pretend to be, but I have talked to several. Seems opinions differ about as much as when you ask a group of archers "what is the best bow". Some really liked bamboo, some are indifferent to it, some don't use it.
Based on my personal experience, I'm sticking to yew limbs for my longbows.
Chad
Post by: Walt Francis on January 11, 2007, 07:46:00 PM
Walt Francis
Post by: highnoonhunter on January 11, 2007, 11:20:00 PM
This makes me feel good about having a yew limbed bow on order!
hnh
Post by: Chortdraw on January 11, 2007, 11:39:00 PM
Chort
Post by: longbow357 on January 12, 2007, 04:32:00 AM
i have always heard conflicting reports on bamboo from bowyers. since i'm considering which limb corewood to get in my RER vortex, this makes it even more interesting.
Post by: john gerrard on January 12, 2007, 07:47:00 AM
Post by: Walt Francis on January 12, 2007, 09:56:00 AM
Osage is a more dense/heavier wood, then either yew or bamboo, making it a little bit slower when used in traditional longbow designs. When Osage is used in recurve bows its added strength and thinner veneers make it more desirable.
Walt Francis
Post by: Steve H. on January 12, 2007, 11:32:00 AM
I too believe this. Osage can be a bit "doggy" in a lam bow.
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 12, 2007, 12:48:00 PM
I have a few Dwyer longbows with different core woods/bamboo, and one of the best performing combination out of them all is a two lamination core of sasafrass with two outer lams of cedar. The limbs are light in mass and recover from full draw with a vengence! I also have a Deathwish longbow with a tonkin cane core, with two outer lams of yew that is a sweetheart too.
Of course is is important to ask just how fast your arrow really needs to go. Speed is not a good substitute for talent.
!["[dntthnk]"]("graemlins/dntthnk.gif" "\"\"")
Post by: john gerrard on January 12, 2007, 05:03:00 PM
Post by: Mike Burch on January 12, 2007, 08:51:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on January 13, 2007, 11:37:00 AM
Post by: Dalebow on January 13, 2007, 12:28:00 PM
Post by: Redfeathers on January 13, 2007, 06:31:00 PM
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 13, 2007, 07:33:00 PM
There are other natural woods that perform well as limb cores other than yew, and as I metioned, some woods with bamboo, and some woods with other woods, make for great performing limbs. Of course limb design will always be a deciding factor, but having said that, the right limb core with the right limb design can make for surprising performance.
Post by: devildog66 on January 13, 2007, 10:18:00 PM
DD
Post by: Otto on January 13, 2007, 10:36:00 PM
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 14, 2007, 12:25:00 PM
Post by: Kids Pastor on January 15, 2007, 01:42:00 PM
I know that the bow design has more to do with it (smoothness & speed) than limb wood, especially with a glass bow.
So, my un-scientific results would be that I am a yew man:)
Post by: Gator1 on September 12, 2007, 12:12:00 PM
Have a bow to pick out in the next few months, any one lately, have a Yew Core, or Sasafrass core built?
If so, any feedback on either??
Post by: BamBooBender on September 12, 2007, 12:54:00 PM
I mean if you can leave a recurve strung for umpteen years and not lose any performance or draw weight, or at least any measurable amount, how then can the wood be doing any significant part of the work? jmho
Post by: BobW on September 12, 2007, 01:24:00 PM
Post by: O.L. Adcock on September 12, 2007, 01:29:00 PM
Bob, that 3-4 fps is an inch of draw length, maybe that's not noticeable to some??
95% of a bows performance has everything to do with design and nothing to do with materials.
I have no doubt Yew is lighter on average then bamboo. But "light" is NOT what you are looking for. You are looking for the most stiffness for it's mass. Heavier is OK as long as it's also stiffer.
We tested "natural" bamboo one time and found the laminations you'll get from various sources will vary over 100% in mass weight alone, not counting stiffness. I was of the opinion nothing was better then bamboo and felt like a 3 year old that was told there was no Santa for 2 weeks! :)Actionboo will be stiffer and lighter then 80% of the bamboo you'll find, the other 20% better. Unless you measure and cull out 80% of it, the law of averages means you arbitrarily build some very good ones and some very bad ones selecting laminations at random. I have no idea about yew but if it's like other woods, the same or larger variations will exist. Those testing a bow here and there may well be compareing "good" yew to "bad" bamboo and vice versa without even knowing it and drawing wrong conclusions from it. Unless tested on the same riser, that will throw in a 4-5% variation in itself. Casual observations lead to wrong conclusions that can last for centuries, like the world is flat and everything revolves around the earth..Just casual observations! :) ....O.L.
Post by: M60gunner on September 12, 2007, 01:29:00 PM
Post by: cvarcher on September 12, 2007, 01:35:00 PM
Post by: O.L. Adcock on September 12, 2007, 02:19:00 PM
Post by: ChuckC on September 12, 2007, 02:19:00 PM
This is not much of an issue in my book. But...nobody but me reads my book.
ChuckC
Post by: vermonster13 on September 12, 2007, 02:29:00 PM
Post by: JohnV on September 12, 2007, 02:54:00 PM
Post by: Rick Wiltshire on July 04, 2008, 08:39:00 AM
Post by: Bert Frelink on July 04, 2008, 09:17:00 AM
"I do not have a chrono so this test is by no means conclusive"
Excactly!!!!!
Design is the key, like O.L says.
Just my 0.02 c.
Regards, Bert
Post by: Hatrick on July 04, 2008, 11:27:00 AM
"the law of averages means you arbitrarily build some very good ones and some very bad ones selecting laminations at random."
How many of you have shot 2 bows built with exactly the same design and same materials but one shot better than the other. This is why it's best to shoot the bow you're buying first.
One of my best shooting longbows has walnut lams. I also believe that maple actionwood which is never talked about anymore is underrated. It seems to me that maple was a standard bearer for years in older bows that still shoot well today.
Another O.L. quote to ponder.
"95% of a bows performance has everything to do with design and nothing to do with materials."
Post by: Jerry Jeffer on July 04, 2008, 02:11:00 PM
Post by: Kevin L. on July 04, 2008, 03:47:00 PM
My next bow will probably be yew, I had a Hill Halfbreed that I foolishly traded, maybe I'll get a Redman next.
Post by: KentuckyTJ on July 04, 2008, 04:57:00 PM
What would be neat is to see what kind of cores the top bowyers use and recommend.
Blacktails = Bamboo
Post by: Rick Wiltshire on July 04, 2008, 05:14:00 PM
Post by: Swamp Pygmy on July 04, 2008, 05:36:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on July 04, 2008, 05:59:00 PM
Post by: Jacko on July 04, 2008, 06:53:00 PM
I wonder if this differance with Bamboo / Yew and hardwood laminations is due to the design characteristics of the bows being better suited to certain limb core materials or perhaps the quality of the yew .
regards Jacko
Post by: EASTERNARCHER on July 04, 2008, 08:59:00 PM
I'm sure either would have been fine. So Boo it will be this time anyhow. I likely wouldn't see the diff. anyways!
Post by: DEATHMASTER on July 05, 2008, 12:03:00 AM
DEATHMASTER
Post by: WidowEater on July 05, 2008, 12:58:00 AM
I bet no one would care about looks if there was a significant performance gain. As long as it was still quiet at least.
Post by: SHOOTO8S on July 05, 2008, 01:33:00 AM
Post by: Danny Rowan on July 05, 2008, 03:32:00 AM
Danny
Post by: James Wrenn on July 05, 2008, 07:30:00 AM
Post by: Hatrick on July 05, 2008, 10:22:00 AM
Post by: EASTERNARCHER on July 05, 2008, 12:56:00 PM
Post by: shantam on July 05, 2008, 01:52:00 PM
but what is left to deal with are those shearloads.
thats the job for the limpcore and these loads are
huge in a glassbow,not to speak of a carbonbow.
damm my english sucks.
shantam
Post by: KentuckyTJ on July 05, 2008, 02:23:00 PM
Post by: EASTERNARCHER on July 05, 2008, 03:07:00 PM
Post by: Jedimaster on July 05, 2008, 04:12:00 PM
Post by: SlowBowinMO on July 05, 2008, 05:24:00 PM
Post by: Rick Wiltshire on July 05, 2008, 07:02:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on July 05, 2008, 07:19:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rick Wiltshire:Always good to cover all bases! :D
Just ordered a new Mowhawk takedown. It will have a 2 lam core of tonkin with back and belly of yew.
Post by: Rick Wiltshire on July 05, 2008, 07:28:00 PM
That is what I figured. I have one of Vinces one piece bows in all yew that looks and shoots great. He still has some of the same yew he used on my last bow so I decided to mix it up this time and see what happens.
Rick
Post by: Rob DiStefano on July 05, 2008, 07:35:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rick Wiltshire:Way to go! :thumbsup:
Rob,
That is what I figured. I have one of Vinces one piece bows in all yew that looks and shoots great. He still has some of the same yew he used on my last bow so I decided to mix it up this time and see what happens.
Rick
Post by: wingnut on July 05, 2008, 07:39:00 PM
Mike
Post by: Ian johnson on July 05, 2008, 07:58:00 PM
Post by: Jedimaster on July 05, 2008, 10:59:00 PM
Post by: Holm-Made on July 05, 2008, 11:43:00 PM
I have made a lot of bows using the action boo cores. I have made a lot of action boo bows off my "Osprey" longbow form. Each bow was a little different even though the riser length was the same, form was the same and the core material was the same. Some seem smoother than others. Some are a little quicker due to more early draw weight for some reason. Wood and bamboo are natural products and are all a little different and vary from piece to piece. Take 2 osage selfbows that are the same poundage,length and design but made from different trees. Often times one will have a lot more wood in the limbs then the other even though they are the same poundage. One tree was more dense then the other.
Both Yew and Bamboo are fine products for laminations that have proven themslves time and time again. You won't go wrong with either. Which is better? My opinion is neither, it's personal preference.
I do know that the natural action boo is noticably more dense than the amber action boo. I can feel it as I rip the lams on the bandsaw. It is also my opinion that the natural action boo is a little quicker. Just my observations, no formal testing here. Chad
Post by: Night Wing on July 10, 2008, 04:38:00 PM
Post by: Orion on July 10, 2008, 05:20:00 PM
Post by: Ian johnson on July 10, 2008, 05:40:00 PM
Post by: Jedimaster on July 10, 2008, 09:03:00 PM
Post by: Bowman0202 on July 10, 2008, 11:35:00 PM
Post by: Swamp Pygmy on July 11, 2008, 08:25:00 PM
what is the difference between action boo and action wood? I understand what the process is I mean what is different between them? is a-Boo faster and lighter and a-wood heavier and more quiet? Or smoother?
Why would you choose one over the other. I understand the consistency is better when its made like that. But when they have the same process done what is the advantage over the other?
Post by: Orion on July 11, 2008, 09:21:00 PM
Post by: Swamp Pygmy on July 12, 2008, 01:38:00 AM