I have read a few post about hand shock and longbows. So what is the cause of this hand shock? Is it just the bow or is it the supposed grip I have read about? I am looking for a new bow and thinking maybe I'll try a longbow but wanting to know about it. The gentlemen I talk about shooting them with say you have to man-handle the bow more then a recurve. Talking about the shock in the hand its not as smooth. Any thoughts about this? I love recurves but love the long bow because that is just what archery has been about in the beginning.
depends on the bow, Some say Hill style bows have tons of it, Hybrid long bow don't. Yes You'll grip the handle different.
The whole "Man Handling" that your friend referred to in my opinion is an 'ol shooters tale passed down after somebody claimed it! Now...the "Hill" style D bows do tend to have more hand shock than alot of the modern R/D type bows which seem to have alleviated that vibration problem alot! Shooting a heavy arrow will reduce hand shock even more and quiet down the bow as well! The thing i love about longbows is their ease of aim, and the way the arrow always goes where its aimed(well almost always)!
I think HS is a very subjective thing and can happen with any bow although LB may be more prone. You need to shoot the bow in question yourself. HS has more to do with the shooter than the bow. How you hold it, arthritis, age etc and arrow weight and tuning plays a really big role as with any bow.
I have a 60# Dick Palmer Hunter (a reworked Martin ML-10) and I never noticed any handshock. I had one "expert" tell me I was just too ignorant to recognize it when I felt it. What I did notice was that my wrist hurt after shooting, so I guess between that and the uncomfortable grip position it was occurring.
my bear kodiak recurve has like no shock
my bear polar longbow feels like it want to race the arrow to the target. a TON of shock in that but its accurate. think i might throw some limb savers and cat whiskers on it and see it that helps anything
What would be the difference in gripping a longbow vs. recurve?
As you learn to shoot a longbow, it's important that you don't lock your bowarm elbow like you can do with a recurve. There IS handshock with a longbow because the limbs don't "go past" the string like they do with a recurve. If you keep your elbow slightly bent, the handshock isn't much of an issue.
QuoteOriginally posted by Tatorbones:
What would be the difference in gripping a longbow vs. recurve?
On Straighth handle longbows, you put the palm of your hand down on the bow. With recurves, even though your palm is in contact with the riser sometimes, it's not "flat down" but angled back
QuoteOriginally posted by Tatorbones:
What would be the difference in gripping a longbow vs. recurve?
I can shoot a high-grip 60# recurve with my hand open - just cradled in the web of my thumb and the fleshy pad below it. The only reason I put any finger pressure on it at all is to prevent torque or rolling (and so it doesn't fall to the ground after the shot). The lower grips I have to hold a little firmer . . . but not much. The longbow I have to get more of the heel of my hand into play from the shape it forces my hand into. But then I have girly wrists.
Longbows tend to kick more simply because there is more moving mass and less riser mass in a longbow. Those limbs have more inertia and the non-moving center of the bow has less.
There are ways to tame it, but that's not the same thing as saying handshock doesn't exist.
I have shot recurves and longbows for years and you do hold them differently. I have never felt like I had to manhandle a longbow, true the Hill style grip with a straight limbed longbow design does transmit more energy to the hand but as indicated in previous comments, not locking your elbow allows the energy to be absorbed. The newer style longbows with a reflex/deflex design are much more forgiving and you need to shoot the individual bow to see how it feels to you. I feel no noticeable handshock in my go-to longbow and it will really boil down to your personal preference. Try it, you'll like it, you will probably find that you enjoy both recurves and longbows.
One of the first longbows i ever shot was a martin, ML-14 or 16, if I remember right. That thing would almost tear your arm off. I shoot Robertsons now and dont notice handshock. I have a friend that tells me my bows have a ton of handshock. :dunno:
I think part of it is that he shoots low 40lbs and high 30lbs and my bows are mid 50lbs to 70lbs.
God Bless,
Nathan
I have switched over to longbows recently. They are hybrids, reflex/deflex and with risers with a bit more mass than hill style. Neither has any hand shock. I got a hill style for my wife that is only 30# draw. It has a fair amount of hand shock, and the person I bought it from had put limbsavers, string leeches and cat whiskers on it. I have tried four or five different hill style bows and found all of those had hand shock. I love shooting my hybrids though.
I think some notice handshock more then another might notice it.I'm a long time longbow shooter,I just don't feel handshock even with my Hill's.I did notice some on an older Hill with a dacron string,it was even worse with silencers on the string.I like my arrows in the 9-11 gpp range and I like low stretch modern strings on my bows except a couple of older recurves.
Try to find a longbow that doesn't start reflexing right out of the handle. That's one source of handshock in longbows IMO. Look into the hybirds, I don't think you'll be disappointed there.......Art
QuoteOriginally posted by mnbearbaiter:
The whole "Man Handling" that your friend referred to in my opinion is an 'ol shooters tale passed down...
Or at least its a way of thinking about longbows that you do not have to follow. I experienced plenty of hand shock with my old Cravotta Brothers Yellowjacket until I eased up on the grip.
I stopped treating the bow like a sledgehammer and more like the wand it is and was rewarded with a sweet shooting stick. No more HS flowing into my arm. A true pleasure to shoot.
Joshua
I think a Hill Style longbow has more handshock because the handle (riser) is so small and not able to absorbe as much shock along with the thicker limbs. A Hybrid R/D bow with a heavier riser, locator grip and lighter limbs will shoot more comfortably. Most of the Hill Style shooters I have talked with like the little thump they get with each shot. That is why they make chocolate and vinilla.
James...........................
initially, it's "WYSIWYG" - it all depends on the longbow's intrinsic built-in design, from limbs to riser. then there are the tweakable extrinsic factors - mostly the arrows, the string, and you.
hill style will *always* have at least a "thump" at best case.
hybrids that are r/d, from mild to aggressive, will have almost none to no bowhand vibrations.
many factors involved and far too complex to analyze in a few paragraphs.
A good tutorial on the grip that is best suited to the American longbow (AKA Hill Bows) can be be found at howardhilllongbowmen.com/. I believe Dick Wightman helped put it together, and what I found there really helped me.
Rob, thought you would like to know. I just made up a Surewood shaft, 65-70 spine cut 31.5" b.o.p. with a 160gr field tip, weighing 614gr total. Shooting out of my 68", 51# @ 29" Howard Hill Owl it flew pretty good that I could tell at approx. 15yds. Hardly a thump at all and that's with a straight grip! :D Oh ya, B50 string w/cat whiskers.
Folks, like Rob says, "tweakable extrinsic factors." :thumbsup:
Hand Shock!!?? :eek: :scared: :eek: Call Vince at Mohawk. None what so ever. :archer:
I love threads like this one. They give me opportunity for advanced snarkiness. :D
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff187/GingivitisKahn/20101204_ac_08_handshock_myth.jpg)
Not sure about other long bows but if you hold a straight handled longbow the same way you hold a pistol-gripped recurve, count your fillings first because you may lose some. If you hold the LB right though (think Biggie mentioned some tips), you'll be fine.
Hill style bows with trimmer limbs like the John Schulz, Miller and Pete George bows, have less hand shock and shoot a faster arrow than the more cluby limbed longbows, no matter how you hold them.
I notice hand shock and have a very sensitive elbow do to injury. I've shot Recurves for 20+ years and also wanted to shoot longbows but they always bothered my elbow.
I've since been exposed to a lot of nice longbows with no hand shock. I've got an ACS and a MOAB and I hope to have a Centaur in the future. After shooting these I will sell off my recurves.
Just find the right longbow
glassed back bows with thinner glass have less handshock,ive had longbows with 30 thou. and 40 thou. thick glass that were trap tillered with yew core that felt like selfbows,all my LB's now are trapped with 50 thou glass and yew core,very little handshock, i had bows in the early 90's that had 80 thousandths glass and they would nock your teeth out,sometimes bowyers would use heavy glass cause they could save money by using less laminations,if you buy a new bow i would ask the bowyer the thickness of glass used,you don't see many shooters in these threads bringing up glass thickness! thats my first consideration, then design, then core,lastly veneers.