I quess that add for protege longbows that pops up in the bow section finally got to me, I like the looks of them strung and unstrung, so I ordered one. anyone have any experience with these bows ?
Kasper
i don't have any experience with protege longbows per se, but i have been in contact with lee regarding questions i had pertaining to my sentman moosejaw razorback, and i can tell you he is a super individual! he is very patient and, i feel, went the extra mile to help me out. also ordered one of his stings for the bow, and am very, very happy with it. i would think you made a very good choice ordering a bow from him. :thumbsup:
Have no experience with them but would love to hear your review once you get the bow & play with it.
BTW I have hunted out of Mohull about an hour from Minot. Very good hunting but the last couple of winters have been really hard on the herd.
As a fellow bowyer I can tell you that Lee knows what he is talking about. I am sure that you will get a fine bow if you get one from him.
God Bless You all and have a great day, Steve
I like the looks of Lee's bows as well. Having Gary Sentman as his mentor provides a wealth of knowledge and skills that have come with a lifetime of longbow building and shooting. I wish he had a TD option.
His write up was very nice.
I came close to ordering one but.......
Let us know how you like yours.
Thanks for the kind words guys. Unfortunately with my full time career as a science teacher, I don't get to travel much so no one outside of my area has seen our bows yet (other than Gary himself of course).
I look forward to getting some of my bows out there for people to see. Several bows will be leaving here next week to various members of tradgang. Gary indeed was very helpful, and I am blessed to have known him so well for so many years. He has taught me a great deal in traditional archery. I believe his experience combined with my analytical nature has produced a winning combination, and I hope those here that chose one of our bows are as pleased as I am. I really do believe we have basically taken Gary's Moosejaw Elite and improved upon it.
Rick, I will most likely work on a take-down option this summer, as I will have the time I need to do some field testing with my idea. I already have a plan on such a bow that would allow me to use my current form, as I don't want to change any of the characteristics I have in our current one piece bow.
For all those that have already taken a chance on us...THANKS FOR GIVING US THE OPPORTUNITY!!!
Lee is a personal friend of mine who I've known for around 12-15 years.He is building a bow for me also.Lee is a very meticulous person who painstakingly strives for perfection in what he does.I can't wait to get my bow in my hand.I think you made a great choice & will be pleased.
John
On his website Lee gives a nice detailed description of his bow design. I think he's really put some thought into the performance end. With Gary Sentman as his mentor he has a lot of experience to lean on.
That said, I've ordered one myself and look forward to giving it a work out. I'd be glad to give an opinion but only after I've put quite a few arrows though it. Lee has been very good to work with through the order process.
I like his motto: "Precision performance begins with precision craftsmanship"
I'll leave the bell and whistles for someone else.
I like the look and design of his bows,great looking bows in my opinion!
Lee,
I do not see anything regarding the bow Warranty on your site?
I do need to put something on my website about that. I haven't put that up yet as it is something I have been considering, but have yet to come up with any conclusion on. Personally, I believe 1 year free replacement or repair for any failure that results from materials or craftsmanship seems to be pretty much an industry standard and that is what I am leaning towards. Shipping and abuse of course wouldn't be covered.
It is the minor details that I need to work out...such as, I think an archer should use at least 8 gpp arrow weight for maximum efficiency, but I have been thinking about allowing as low as 7 gpp for my warranty as I believe the bows can handle that without any problems. I am very selective with my materials and also careful with my glue mix up and tight glue joints. If I see something structurally wrong, it won't leave my shop. Should I produce a bow that has a minor cosmetic blemish but is structurally sound, I won't even ship that to a client...and will produce the client another bow. I might put such "cosmetic" blemish bows in my inventory and sell it at a reduced price, but I have to think about that. If I do sell such a bow it too would still come with a full warranty. For example, right now I have a bow in inventory named "Little Scrapper" (that I haven't put on my website). It got its name because I used some scrap (but structurally sound) materials in that bow that I don't advertise on my website. Also it was the 3rd bow I made off my protege longbow form. For disclosure, I had a 22" cocobollo riser that I glued up laying around, but had not yet used and I also had some edge grain bocote 0.030" veneers (which I do not offer bocote as a limb wood in my bows). So, I used that riser in that bow and the bocote veneers in the limbs just to use them up, but combined them with some edge grain red elm to be sure the bow would perform well. (I normally use only bamboo or edge grain red elm for my natural limb cores as I believe they, and maple, offer the best performance...which is our goal). Additionally, I had some carbon that was only 0.020" thick that I didn't have any planned use for as I normally use 0.030", so I put that in that bow, but hid it behind the bocote veneer. Although this is done all the time by many bowyers, I normally only use carbon directly under a black s-glass backing. Finally, that bow bow has clear glass on the back and the belly so one can see the bocote veneers...but the piece I used on the back that had one small 2" streak in it (very hard to see in the finished bow and if I didn't point it out in the right lighting most people probably wouldn't even see it given the bocote limbs), but I do know it is there...so, should I sell that bow (as it is structurally sound), I will likely sell it at 33%-50% off just because of the blemish. In conclusion, I think it is a great bow, but I do believe most people would find my typical competition bow superior...yet, I figured I might as well use these materials up...after all these same materials are often used by many bowyers even though they may not be my normal preferences. I may give it away to a youth...but honestly, I see no reason to not sell it discounted although if I did so I would still offer a full warranty on it. "Little Scrapper" or not, the final product is good so it certainly shouldn't go to waste should someone want a light weight bow. It is only 38#@28" draw and has a slightly small grip for an adult...perfect for a lady or youth. Regardless though, I wouldn't sell it without such being disclosed to the customer.
Rest assured, anything sold will be covered as I want to treat customers the same way I too would want to be treated. Of course are all human, so warranties need to be written up and addressed in order to protect both the customer and the bowyer.
That said, I am reasonable and basically feel warranties should be taken on a "common sense" type basis, but unfortunately a "common sense" warranty would be worthless in writing. Last thing I want is someone to get a problem. The entire goal of my bow is to benefit the archer. Problems don't help anyone. So, the best option I am leaning towards is a simple no-nonsense 1 year warranty on craftsmanship and materials.
very interesting
No problem there with me 12-14 gpi foe me!
is the strikeforce coming back!
Not likely. I didn't shoot it as well as I did the elite, although the protege longbow does actually have more r/d than did the moosejaw elite, it isn't as radical as was the strikeforce.
Ya I've been lucky enough to shoot a lot of his bows including a few of his personal shooter and I loved loved loved the strikeforce! When he was at your place I actually contacted him about a strikeforce build and he was for it but I had some stuff come up around the house and my bow fund went bye bye. Id love to see an osage strikeforce! Keep up the good work!
i think 7gpp with a stickbow is waaaaay too low, not only for the bow, but for the shooter and arrow. imo, the lowest minimum cutoff is about 9gpp, and around 10gpp is better yet with most bows of decent, realistic hunting weight.
Rob, I agree with you completely when it comes to efficiency and optimal energy transfer. Even though I think it is best to use 9 or 10 gpp, with the number of carbon arrows in production now a days I have seen MANY bows are proving to handle 8 gpp on the 3D trail. I myself use just over 9 gpp and have never blown a tip on a bow. I think most tips that blow are results of dry fires or neglect.
Anyway, it isn't uncommon to see a guy with a 60# bow using a 480-500 grain arrow, which is close to only 8 gpp.
In reality, a 60# bow with a 30" draw and 9 gpp probably hits harder than a 60# bow at 7 gpp at a 25" draw. I do not wish to come up with an overly complicated warranty that has different specs for different bow weights and draw lengths. Maybe I should just stick with 8 gpp as the minimum required arrow weight for my warranty...as good common sense is indeed important to a bow's lifespan. As I said, I haven't decided yet.
Thanks for your input.
>>>----->
QuoteOriginally posted by Protege Longbows:
... Maybe I should just stick with 8 gpp as the minimum required arrow weight for my warranty...as good common sense is indeed important to a bow's lifespan. ...
most bowyers set the threshold at 8gpp. truth be told, in the final analysis it'll be the honesty and integrity of the customer that will matter most.
Rob,
No doubt, but I want to have something in writting on the matter just in case a "newbie" gets one of my bows. Fortunately, most newbies have someone with more experience to guide them to some degree at least, but I would hate to see a newbie get a traditional bow and then go to the local compound bow shop leaving with a set of light weight carbon arrows (5-6 gpp) that were designed to be shot out of a compound bow in which the limbs have almost no movement (by using the movement of the wheels/cams). So I need to come up with some guidelines on both warranty and user manual. I am sure I am going to enjoy this new adventure of being a bowyer, but being a custom bowyer requires more than just producing a bow...and it is those types of details I am working out now. Thanks again for your input.
I agree with Rob. I would set the warranty at 8gpp and then suggest 10gpp in the user manual. Guys who have experience will know if they like 8gpp or 12gpp but the newbie won't. 10gpp is probably pretty much average and a good place for someone new to start out at.
I like that you will reject a bow with cosmetic flaws BEFORE sending it to the customer or offer it at a discounted price. I have bought some high end bows and paid a bunch of extra cash for premium woods only to have it arrive with defects and white spots in the glass. Can't help but feel like you got taken when that happens.
QuoteOriginally posted by Protege Longbows:
Rob,
but I would hate to see a newbie get a traditional bow and then go to the local compound bow shop leaving with a set of light weight carbon arrows (5-6 gpp) that were designed to be shot out of a compound bow
Got your finger on the pulse of the problem right there.
Lee,
when is the first Tradganger going to receive a bow?
Stacy
I just told my wife I want to finish up 3 bows this weekend, one of which is the first order I had on the tradgang. I plan on shipping that one on Monday as it is 80-90% done at this point. They should receive it by Wednesday/Thursday. I would like to get a 2nd one out next week also, as I have already started it and some of the risers on a few others as well. I tend to work on the bows in stages...doing risers...then glue ups...then tillering...then grips...then finish work, but it is more efficient to overlap the process. I will have to improve on that. It looks like I will have some busy weekends in the near future.
I just uploaded our warranty details as well as our owner's manual. Thanks for the feedback.
Click here to view those details. http://www.protegelongbows.com/orderforms.htm
Just sent my MO to Lee for my new Competition Longbow! Lee do you think with your longer handle section it will add to the mass/stability of the bow?
Thanks. It will certainly add some mass and beam strength...but it also helps my limbs store energy and perform the way I want.
I will be in and out of the bowshop all weekend, so it may be hard to reach me by phone sometimes...but my computer is typically on and that is often the most reliable and efficient way to reach me should you need to do so. I hope you enjoy your bow when you receive it. You guys are going to be keeping me very busy!!! LOL.
I got two of the three bows that I needed to finish up done and the 3rd is 90% done. One of those two I finished was the first Trad Gang ("TGS bow"), which I got shipped out today. Hopefully its owner will pleased with the bow. It is a 66" Protégé Competition Longbow. The riser is bubinga. Here are some photos of it...
Unfortunately, this photo with the name on it is blurry. The bow was completed on 1-11-11 (except for the finish and leather grip), and with it being the first bow I sold on Trad Gang, I had to name it "TGS Numero Uno."
(http://www.protegelongbows.com/TGS%20Bow1riserreducedimage.jpg) (http://www.protegelongbows.com/TGS%20BowNumeroUno.jpg) (http://www.protegelongbows.com/TGS%20Bow1stitchingreducedimage.jpg)
(http://www.protegelongbows.com/TGS%20Bow1unstrungreducedimage.jpg)
(http://www.protegelongbows.com/TGS%20Bow1SWstrungreducedimage.jpg)
(http://www.protegelongbows.com/TGS%20Bow1reducedimage.jpg)
Wow, that is a beauty if a bow! Who ever is getting it, I hope you will post some shooting thoughts!
Hi, Lee. I'm trying to visualize your grip sizes and shapes. For example, does the bow directly above have your standard "locator" grip? If not, how would I specify this particular grip shape? I really like it. It's almost close to what I call a semi-pistol grip. I expected you might be offering just a simple indicator grip before I saw this photo. Also, is the grip on this bow size Medium, Large or otherwise? Thanks. Clint
This grip is a medium "contempory type locator" in my mind. A slight locator IMO would be more gradual in the throat. I worked off the measurements given to me from the customer to achieve his desired circumference at both the throat and the heel of the grip. Gary Sentman often times had a similar grip on his mountain bow models.
On my order form I have a section on "notes." I try to listen to what a client wants and then work my own interpretation of what a grip should be like INTO the perimeters desired by the customer.
I got Numero Uno.I am a hopeless bow addict and always wanted a Moosejaw.I never could find one used.So I never got one.I had heard good things about them from guys out west.
So when I saw Lee was building these bows similar to a Moosejaw with modifications my interest was peaked.I read the info on the website and was impressed with the info and his association With Gary Sentman and his bows.
Lee offered the TGS bows at 100$ off introductory price and I bit my lip and ordered one and I got #1.It was finished being built on 1/11/1 as well.Kinda cool!
Its 66 inches (24 inch riser) and the Competator model with carbon.No extras other than the carbon.I wanted a basic bow that would shoot and perform.
I love the riser on these bows!!!Its unique and has excellant fadeouts.Its strong looking as well as graceful and adds a little mass weight.The grip is nice for me.I had him put the elk hide smooth side out for the grip instead of rough side.He stitched it on very well and tightly so it should not get wrinkles or bulging spots on the grip.Many small multipe Xs completed a good stitching job.Its well done!
Lee made the limbs slightly wider on my bow to smooth out the draw to 30 inches.It as smooth drawing as any bow I have pulled.It has a real nice smooth draw force curve all the way back.Its also smooth when the arrows is released,no shock.Its pleasant shooting.
The bow is quiet and is plenty quick.Its not fidgety at all when shot
The arrow sits right on top of the hand.I like that and I get no feather contact with the meat of my hand when the arrow passes.
I found that this bow accomdates an Eagles flight quiver very well.This long riser with long fadeouts is taylor made for mounting a bowquiver.Its a good marriage.You can mount the quiver down the fades quite a bit to keep it from effecting the limbs in any way.Also the hood of the quiver and grippers are still spaced very far apart.So its secure and you get little to no vibration on your arrows when the limbs recover upon release.I like that!So if you hunt with a bowquiver you are gonna like this nice fit you will get.
All and all a very nice shooting bow thats well made and the service from Lee was 1st rate in staying in touch with me and keeping me informed and asking questions on just what I wanted and he delivered.
String is a 9 strand Dynaflight and i was shooting CX Heritage 250s cut to 31 with 200 up front and also CX 150s cut to 30.5 with 150s up front.Bow is 48#s at 30.Cut to center.It shot both arrrows well and was quiet with the lighter !50 arrow that was around 475 grains and very quiet with the 250 thats around 575 grains.i was happy that it shot the lighter arrow very quietly.Some of my bows dont shoot light arrrows as quiet.
Cheers!
Steelhead, thanks for the great report. I'm TG #4 and my bow will just about mirror yours except I ordered 50# @ 28". A lot of the design highlights you pointed out are reasons for me ordering the Protege.
Your welcome Hatrick.I know some of you guys have bows coming soon and thought I would give a report on my observations as was requested by a few other members.
Hope you Gell with your bow.It will be a nice all around shooter!
Eric,
what grip did you get?
Its in the picture on page 2 of this thread Stacy.
It fits the hand nice and naturally.
I took some measurements of a grip I like and Lee matched the measurements pretty close.
Thanks for the review Eric. I appreciate it a great deal and I am VERY happy to know you are pleased.
Here are some photos of the bow I referred to as "Little Scrapper." Even though it was the 3rd bow I actually glued up, I didn't actually get around to putting the finishing touches on it until a few weeks ago. I thought I would post some pictures of it as well.
(http://www.protegelongbows.com/LittleScrapperpic1.jpg)
(http://www.protegelongbows.com/LittleScrapperpic2.jpg)
Nice one Lee
The edge grain red Elm on the belly,looks nice.Almost like some of the zebrawood I have seen and its excellant limb wood with no need for veneers to pretty it up.
"Little Scrapper" does not have edge grain red elm on the belly or back. It is edge grain bocote veneers...which I do not offer as a limb core and I just wanted to use them up. On the 2nd page I discuss how the "Little Scrapper" came into being...which described the materials used in that bow.
"Numero Uno" has red elm in it...and while it is from "edge grain" stock, IMO it seems to show some characteristics similar to flat grain in some areas. That will happen some times, and in fact tends to make for a nicer looking limb than does a PURE edge grain limb. In theory a pure edge grain limb would be ideal, but in reality I have never met someone good enough to determine the difference between the two...still though, when I order red elm I order edge grain...which in its "true" form is very straight and shows little character. I am going to try to get most of my "beauty" in quality craftsmanship and nice riser woods. I must admit that I have been a little surprised that the majority of my orders have been with standard riser woods and not many "figured" or cosmetic woods (which is obviously additional expense since such woods are harder to come by).
If this is the scrap bow I can't wait to get mine.Very nice bow,Lee.
John