My dad called me right after dark on New Year's Eve to say he thought he ended the year right by shooting a doe with his recurve just a few minutes before. He thought he had a good hit, had found good blood, but decided to recover the deer the next morning. He was hunting a couple hundred yards from his house on our farm in south-central Missouri.
The next morning he called me bright and early and started the conversation with, "Well, son, I've got one for the story books". He started tracking his deer at first light and found a good blood trail right away. After about 20 yards up the south ridge by the house, he found his arrow and the blood really started pouring then. At 60 yards, he found where the doe had lain down but the blood trail then turned back downhill towards our road. He had his beagle, Sweety, with him to help with the recovery effort.
While he diligently followed the blood, Sweety went on ahead and suddenly Dad heard her start barking treed down towards a ditch that runs between the road and the barn. Dad's first thought was that the deer was still alive so he snuck down towards where Sweety was at to have a look see.
When he got to the ditch, he peered into it but saw nothing. Sweety was still barking and wouldn't go into the ditch and Dad was beginning to think the dog had lost her mind. That's when he saw the first sign of his deer; just a white patch of ear hair sticking out of the grass and leaves.
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240/dhaverstick/Mountain%20Lion%20Kill%20Pics/PuddyTatPic-1.jpg)
Here's a closeup
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240/dhaverstick/Mountain%20Lion%20Kill%20Pics/PuddyTatPic-2.jpg)
Not knowing at the time what the "white stuff" was, he climbed down into the ditch and made this discovery; what was left of his doe drug under a log and completely covered in grass and leaves.
That was when he decided to go back to the house and call me. After our conversation, he went back to the deer and took the pictures.
Here you can see where one whole shoulder is gone
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240/dhaverstick/Mountain%20Lion%20Kill%20Pics/PuddyTatPic-3.jpg)
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240/dhaverstick/Mountain%20Lion%20Kill%20Pics/PuddyTatPic-5.jpg)
Here you can see where one ham is gone too. The ham on the other side was partially eaten.
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240/dhaverstick/Mountain%20Lion%20Kill%20Pics/PuddyTatPic-4.jpg)
Now we both had suspicions about what kind of animal would do such a thing but they were confirmed after some research. According to what we had learned, only two predators in north america will bury their kill to save it for later. One is a grizzly bear and the other is a mountain lion. And since the former is pretty scarce this far east, we had to conclude it was the latter.
Now I know you fellers out west see this kind of thing on a regular basis. However, here in the Ozarks, losing a deer to something a little higher on the food chain will give a man a reason to pause before he steps outside.
Oh, yeah...this carcass was buried less than 100 yards from Dad's front porch.
Darren Haverstick
are you going to show MDC?
good spot for a trail cam(?)
very interesting post.
Too late now. Dad hauled the carcass to the back of our upper field to chum the coyotes. Besides, my father does not have the highest opinion of MDC so I doubt they will be getting an invitation to his house anytime soon.
Do you have a season on ML's if so that would make for a great trad hunt.Other than that I would put a set of those craft fake eyes for dolls on the back of my hat( i read that an ML will not attack from the front but will go behind. Some of the guides would affix these fake eyes on the back of hats and packs.Or get a head lamp and wear it facing the rear.That would freak me out having an ML that close to home.As long as it has food it won't leave the area.
All I have to say is "here kitty, kitty, kitty"
Big News story last week where a Farmer in Hardin, Mo. shot and killed a Mt. Lion. They said He had lost two calves prior to it being shot.
This was on the local news in Kansas City.
bretto
Do you have some cliffs near you? A few years ago a friend had one he had left overnight to look for get drug off by one. When he went lookin' for it he thought something was following him. He ended up giving up on it and left. It was right by the river where there was a bunch of cliffs. They contacted MDC and were told there wasn't any mountain lions in Mo. That was in Lonedell, Mo.
Less than ten miles from there some other friends had seen one right before dark. They also lived bordering the same river. MDC also told them there weren't any mountain lions in Mo.
My wife has seen one run and jump across the road right in front of the car she was behind, about 1 mile from where we live.
Carrying a firearm while bowhuntin' is illegal in Mo. Lot of people do carry though, for just such a reason. Ya gotta protect youself, nobody else will
Really cool story, should look for tracks and the such. Make dark walks home at night a little more interesting for the mind.
You know they are there not just another ghost story anymore!
J
We've had sightings here in southern IL. In fact my oldest son swears he saw one when we were bow hunting about 3 years ago.
A family friend in MO swore that when he was a kid this took place: He heard the dogs barking in the back yard. They had two dogs chained to to different posts and there was a small gap between the two to keep them apart. When he looked out to see what the was driving them nuts he saw a BLACK cougar/panther calmly walking between the two dogs in that "safety zone" like he was taunting them.
Swore it was true and I have never had reason to doubt him. This was decades ago, I think it is well within the realm of possibility.
QuoteOriginally posted by Deerhntr:
We've had sightings here in southern IL. In fact my oldest son swears he saw one when we were bow hunting about 3 years ago.
I used to live in West Frankfort. When we moved there almost 15 years ago my father saw one dead on the interstate.
Within the last couple years we had friends send us trail cam picks of a very nice buck being dragged/carried past the camera. This was in the Benton area.
You are forgeting one animal that covers its kills/finds.The bobcat and don't want to burst your bubble but I think that is what you have there.I have seen and photographed a few bobcat kills and quite a few lion kills.
The first thing a lion will do is drag the deer into the thick stuff.I don't think this cat was big enough to move the deer.
The next thing lions do is open up the chest and eat the eart,lungs and liver.This animal didn't do that.It wasn't big enough.
Also note that only the top side was fed on,meaning a smaller animal that couldn't move the deer around.
It just doesn't look like a lion kill to me though that is a lot of meat missing overnight.this time of year when cats start to breed,you can't discount the possibility of 2 bobcats traveling together.There is also the possibility that coyotes hit it and a cat coveed it later.
No way to tell for sure but a trail camera would have sorted that out in one night.neat story.
I've seen Black Bears do the same thing with a bait pile. Any bears in the area?
Darren I can't believe you went in and butched the hams of that deer and than blamed it on a mountain lion! Still like hunting off the ground,could get interesting. Greg
I wouldn't doubt the existence of lions in Missouri. I live in Tulsa and a few years ago I was out on Fin and Feather Road, just north of McAlester. I rounded a corner and saw a large mountain lion standing in the middle of the road. When he saw my car he just sauntered off without so much as a look back.
I stopped at a house a couple of hundred yards from where I saw that cat and asked the guy if there were mountain lions in the area. He just laughed and said "sure, I've seen a large one several times on my place and my wife sees that cat all of the time."
I have several friends who have seen them out near Siloam Springs, AR and I think the ODWC finally wised up, after receiving literally hundreds of reports of sightings from people who know perfectly well what they've seen, and admitted that yes, there are mountain lions in Oklahoma.
The MDC has finally admited on our local news that we have some 300 black bears in sothern MO. They said that the bears have come across the border from AR.
I guess in a few years maybe they will come out and say we have a few lions Who knows? I'm not the biggest fan of the MDC's management decisions.
JimB nailed it!! Bobcat :thumbsup: Nice job Jim everbody always thinks mountain lion in the midwest. Yes, Missouri has mountain lions but look for prints or something to prove it.
Tracy
there are some(but rare) mountain lions sightings here in Quebec,did'nt know about this south like Misouri!Interesting!
Iowa DNR used to say " There are no Mt. Lions in Iowa". Then last year a fella near Cedar Rapids killed one.
Great story and pics! Thanks for sharing.
In NW Iowa we were told there were no mountain lions. Hard to explain the two that were shot by a farmer by Ireton, the one hit by a car In the Loess Hills, the one in a country grave yard a half mile from where we were hunting and the one that followed one our hunting party to with in twenty yards. She was making a doe in heat scent trail to her blind, the lion was following the scent. I found buried turkey feathers, covered fawn carcasses under the junipers nearby and saw some impressive claw marks go up a dirt bluff, twenty yards from where I was told she stood her ground against the lion. We have not heard of any in the area for a few years, however, we do have a moose now.
Jim you think a bobcat could eat so much in one evening? I doubt it. I have never seen a lion kill so no experience there. Beaver carcasses I have left in the woods and babcats have gotten have not had that much eaten off them? Seen a black bear cover a dead deer up once and lost a doe to a black bear, found later and was coveed similar but damaged much worse.
Tracks tell the tale.
Jason
For sure it could be a mountian lion. We have had a spate of sightings here in Indiana this year and DNR actually got trail cam photos of one: http://www.theindychannel.com/news/25142280/detail.html
Remeber the lion in suburban Chicago a couple years ago.
I would have to agree with JimB and Trapper. I live in the Ozarks myself, and earlier this season I made a good shot on a doe with my longbow. It fell less than 50 yards out of my sight. I waited an hour and trailed it up. I almost steeped on the deer before I saw it. It was totally covered up in leaves. And I mean totally. It had fallen right at the edge of a clearing and had at least 6 inches of leaves on it with only one leg sticking out.I have been hunting this area for 25 years, and while I have heard of stories of big cats in the area, I have yet to see one. I have, however, seen many bobcats. Had an old trapper tell me once that the way he trapped for bobcats was to put out a deer carcass, and wait for a bobcat to cover it up before he set traps for it. Also lost one deer a few years ago to a bear. You could see where it had set down and ate a big part of the deer. skin, ribs, bigger bones, guts and all.
All the mountain lions work for Al Quaida.......arm yourself! It's an invasion!
Man if I had a buck for every "mountain lions living in the place they are not supposed to be, cover up by the state" story I'd be far richer. Why don't you take a kill and have them analyzed (bite marks, cat DNA in saliva, claw marks) rather than get all freaked out?
Every East TX bubba has three of them living in his yard or across the road.
Just sayin'. Not tryin' to offend anyone. By the way I happen to have a thing for mountain lions and bobcats.
Interesting story, funny thing is...my father had the same experience here in souther WV a few years back in an area with a pretty high population of Black Bear. I've never done any research to see if Black Bears will cover their food but that is what we always suspected done it.
Not too late for a camera,, The culprit is still likely to come back looking for it.
We do have both here in Missouri. I've seen articles where the MDC admits there is a small population of lions and now bears. They denied the existence of big cats for years, but then had to change their stance when a farmer had one on his place with a fresh deer kill. The agent and farmer both saw the big cat pick the deer up and carry it off.
I just recently read another article in Fur Fish Game magazine where the MDC also recognized the fact that we have bears in the southern part of the state, they said it was probably a trickle over from Arkansas where they were re-introduced in the late 60's.
A co-worker of mine showed me trail cam pics of a bear he had at a feeder in south east Mo. near Piedmont. He said it had turned the feeder over 3 times already and they had to drive steel posts in the ground and chain the feeder down to keep it upright.
Missouri even has a hotline number to report mountain lion and bear sightings. If they didn't agree they were here, why would they offer a phone number to report sightings?
Both are protected and killing one will land you in jail.
There is a possibility that someday Missouri will have a bear season, but don't count on it.
Mountain lions will likely never be legal to hunt and kill in Missouri.
With that said, a man has the right to protect himself from either one.
My brother had the exact same thing happen to a doe he shot a few years ago. He left it till morning and found it drug some 60 yards away from it's death bed, fully covered with leaves partially eaten.
I've seen big cats, my dad and brother have seen big cats, and 2 of my friends have seen big cats. All in mid/north east Missouri.
If/when you ever see one there will be no doubt in your mind what it is. They look absolutely nothing like any other creature you have ever seen or are used to seeing in the state of Missouri. The 2 sightings I had, I knew immediately it was a big cat and the first thing that stuck out in my mind was the sheer size of it and that un-mistakeable long tail. The way they move is nothing like a coyote or a deer, much more like a bobcat except 10 times bigger and longer tail.
Sorry for the long response, but every word of what I just wrote is the honest truth.
All of us that have had big cat sightings are experienced trappers/hunters and outdoorsmen. I have personally caught 4 bobcats myself and have watched them from a tree stand many times, I know the difference between a bobcat and a mt. lion when I see one.
These are from several years back, when we had "NO" lions in MO.
You make the call... :cool:
Start of attack, looked like it ate some innards and started toward brush with it...
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/5.jpg)
The blood trail,about 30 yds,to out of site of road..
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/9.jpg)
What was left....
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/8.jpg)
Bite mark in back,little big for bobcat I thought. Sorry for crappy pics,my digital cam was crappy..
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/7MediumWebview.jpg)
Button buck,bit in the spine on back,top teeth 2 3/8 c to c,then bitten on throat and bite position shifted once.
I found it one morning in Feb,was really frosty,no tracks about. Ate a lot of meat,you call it. :coffee:
Sorry Darren ,not tryin to hijack!
I wish more people were like you Kenny and took picks of the findings :thumbsup:
As a animal control agent here in Kansas I have taken hundreds of calls over the years of Mountain lion sightings. You can not go anywhere in this state especially my town and around it in a public place and say the word mountain lion without ten people coming up and saying I saw one. 99% of those sightings are in the broad daylight too.
I have responded to calls immediately after the sightings with the news papers there and all. I would say 95% of all calls were proven to be a dog/coyote tracks, 3% bobcat and 2% unknown. I have made bait stations with trail cams and used call lures, predator calls you name it I've used it.
We run trail cams almost year round anyway so I figure one of these years I might get one on film but not yet. To be honest I hope they move on through or stay away they are one of the most efficient and awesome predators out there and can pull down a elk and kill it. Do you really want one a 100 yds from your house I don't.
It is a proven fact that they are in Kansas,Neb,Mo,OK I'm surprised at the response that some of you don't know this. There's always a article somewhere popping up about them. Yes there are bears in southern MO. and have been for years.
Right now fur bearers are paired up for breeding season and in groups too. That might account for extra meat eaten or coyotes got to it then left it then the lion,bobcat,bear or what ever came along and had there fill.you will never know with out some kind of prof
Not trying to step on anybodys toes either just make sure to get some good prof and pictures to go with it like Kenny's. Somebody else said it already but now is a good time for a trail cam and I hope you get the pictures you are looking for and I look forward to seeing them. Really :D
Tracy
sasquatch?.... :nono:
My find there was still warm when I found it,figured I bushed the critter off,but didn't see it and was no tracks I could tell. So next guess was killed middle of night and maybe left before frost towards daylite??
FWIW- I spend a lot of time out,and have never seen a lion. I did see 8 bobcats for sure last year, and a couple unconfirmed (just wasn't sure)
Thought I saw a bear once at 4 AM on the way to work, but hell it was a late nite or an early morning, the guy with me was already asleep 1/2 mile from my house , so no witnesses.....
:biglaugh:
Well, Here in SW Wisconsin, the DNR dennies any mountian lion population. However, a few miles from my house a man took a picture of a deer up in a tree half eaten. We both doubt it was coyotes.
Many years ago a farmer watched a young lion chase his heifers through his new fences 2 days in a row. He called the DNR to get the lion trapped and outta there. The DNR relied, there are no cougars in SW Wisconsin. On the third day, he called the WI DNR and said he was going to shoot the lion. The DNR said he could not shoot the lion as there was now lion season in WI. He told them since there are no lions in WI, he was not breaking any laws. The Lion was cought and removed with in the week.
It could be a cougar. I'd be setting up a trail cam on that spot.
This sight has several documented sightings of cougars in Missouri: http://www.cougarnet.org/centralmidwest.html
Man, I didn't mean to stir up so much controversy! Here are a few of the reasons why we think it was a cougar that ate on the deer. Granted, we have no experience with these animals but....
1) My dad keeps hounds whose sole purpose in life is to run coyotes so I doubt any coyote is gonna get that close to the house. Besides, when the coyotes around our farm fall upon a deer carcass there usually ain't nothing left but the smell and that is faint.
2) I don't know what kind of bobcats you all have around but I have a hard time believing that a 30 pound cat is gonna drag a 150 pound doe under a log, eat 25 pounds worth of meat, and then bury the rest. I didn't mention it in my original post but Dad said you could see where the eater had torn into the body cavity where his arrow wound would have been and had consumed the liver.
3) This is anecdotal evidence only but...Three or four years ago my dad and his friend saw a cougar on the Pole Pile Ridge which is about 2 miles due east of our farm. There was a light snow on and Dad has a picture (poor quality) of a cool cup sitting inside one of the tracks. About 2 weeks after that, Dad saw a cougar in our lower field. This past November, there was a cougar spotted over in Texas County which is about 50 miles northwest of our farm. This cat was found on top of a deer a guy had shot during rifle season.
As far as the trailcam goes, yes, I wish Dad had left the carcass alone and had put a camera over it. However, you have to understand Father. He would rather hunt coyotes than breathe so when he's got some fresh chum for them he's gonna put it out in hopes of getting to burn some ammunition. That deer is now nothing more than little piles of coyote dung scattered about the farm.
After elk hunting in WY last year and watching a lion slink through the boulder field like an overgrown house cat I can honestly say I have seen nothing like that in my part of the world here in So. IL. I also log about 30 days a year in a tree here. This year alone I had 6 bow-range bobcat encounters. Funny thing, they moved just like that lion I saw in WY.
My neighbor called me a couple a weeks ago all fired up about seeing a lion. He, like alot of folks here, have seen several big cats. Since I am a bit of a "show me" person I asked if I could put up a couple of cams on his place. So far, lots of deer, 2 house cats, birds, a skunk, and the neighbors dog, but no big cat. I believe my neighbor saw something that he wasn't used to seeing, but until I get a photo or have one in my lap, I will be a skeptic.
I have no doubt those cats range through parts of the world that has not been part of their home range before. Perhaps I have missed the boat and missed seeing them. I have been to parts of MO and AR that looked like cat country for sure! Here in the heartland with small woodlots and big Ag fields I find it difficult to believe we have a sustainable group of lions. Coarse, I been wrong berfore, and I look forward to seeing one (on camera is fine) :)
I believe its possible they are in the midwest. I personally have never seen one. However my hunting partner called me about 830 one morning sounding kinda shocked and told me of the one he had seen. It had a young one with it. he said it was kinda pouncing on the little one and chasing it around. He saw them about 80 yards from his tree stand and said he watched them for about a half hour before they slipped off into thicker timber. This was 2 years ago down close to Vienna IL. He also had a deer partially eaten and covered with leaves the season before. That happened about 300 yards from the sighting.
I had heard of people seeing them but always kinda wrote it off as peoples imagination until then.
I am definitly not going to dispute anyones clain to see a lion, or where they are. But I have lived in UT and CO where there are a lot of cats, and have personally seen three without dogs and that's 3 more than most people I know. That's 25 or more years in the mountains chasing muledeer and elk. So for all these folks to see cats, there must be a lot of them in the midwest? Darren if your Dad keeps hounds and that cat was within 100yards, those dogs should have been going nuts as well. Lions hate dogs and dogs hate lions. Also go look for tracks between where the deer was found and where the last sighting of the doe was from your Dad. Yes they look the same as bobcats, but they have a size advantage, unless it was a small lion and a big bobcat. And a little food for thought, if a 150 lb lion can drag and elk (500 lbs) why couldn't a 50 Lb bobcat drag a doe (150 lbs). Seems possible to me. I would love to see some track pics with a size reference. Again I don't doubt what you are saying.
Its a fact that they are in the midwest. Confirmed sightings and pics here in Indiana
Cougars get around, that's for sure.
We are told that we don't have cougars here on our islands in SE Alaska.
About 15 years ago children at the elementary school reported seeing an animal with a long tail. Just kids, what do they know?
Then a short time afterwards, a man living away from town shot a cougar, which he brought in to town and put on the bartop at one of the local watering holes. He was charged and convicted with shooting a cougar out of season. (Remember, we don't have cougars here, so there is no season for hunting them.)
The cougar was confiscated and after use as evidence, was done up in a full body mount and is now on display as the mascot for the middle school Cougars sports teams.
We still don't have cougars here, but others have been seen, caught in a trap, and photographed. Go figure. Maybe your cougar does not exist either.
Steadman makes a point about that bobcat. The biggest bobcat I have ever seen was standing under my stand here in IL this year. It was absolutely a giant, and I think it could have easily killed a deer. I just found one dead on the road that weighed 43 pounds, was long-legged, and really healthy. The DNR told me I couldn't legally keep it so I put it back in the ditch I found it after a post-mortum: this thing loved rabbits but I doubt it would turn it's nose up at a free bow-killed deer or a healthy yearling.
About ten yrs ago, north central IN, I got outta my Jeep with my Blackwidow for an afternoon bowhunt and the ranch hand of the farm I was hunting ran up to me rather nervous..........asked me to NOT shoot the cougar he saw that morning.
It was from a private zoo a couple of miles away, had gotten loose, was defanged and declawed and was scavenging for food (actually ran from barn, was in there eating regular cat food when the ranch guy showed up for work).
So when I hear of cougar stories I always wonder.........
Is it a lost pet?
Is it one somebody had illegally and just dumped?
Is it a game agency plant?
Is it a wild one that wandered into the area?
i used to date a girl that had one for a pet, he would come in the living room through the window, wow! i was nervous, she said just dont move real fast or freakout, he came in walked around the couch and back out the window, he got loose a couple of times and people would report sightings of him acasionly, i wonder what ever happened to him and her....ah- memories :goldtooth:
Frequency is based on home range. Lions can range as much as 500 sq miles in areas where food is a bit hard to come by.
The cat sightings near Vienna are likely true. I have seen two in my almost 40 years in the area. This was close up and personal. I am a wildlife guy so, for me at least, there was no guessing... Lion!!! nuff said.
I guess that I will chime in. I am not saying that they are not around here (eastern Kansas), but with all of the trail cameras that are out around here nobody has a picture of one that I know of. We have a LOT of cattle around here and I would think that calves would be easy pickins for a cougar. No problems in that area. It is my PERSONAL OPINION that if there is one in my area that it would be either a pet that was released or escaped, or a wild one that got a "wild hair" to find a new territory. There was a Moose sighted in Missouri one time, but I would not say that they were common. Just my two cents.
Well i think we have some in California lol if there is they told us if you look at them to long the Fish and Game will give you a ticket they are well protected around here but i would put up a camera and find out for sure and tell no one and decide what to do with it
50 years ago,we had no deer here, they are thick in places now,reckon any hungry cats needin new territory would follow a food source?
Let me see, in the last few years,
trail cam pic at Chillicothe
road kill at platte city
coon hunter kill at carrolton about 1/1/ 2011
MDC said 12 confirmed lions in MO (by memory)
Couple killed in Iowa
Think one killed in NE a couple years ago
Naah , there probably aren't any here......... :wavey:
PS, I STILL haven't seen one!
I've seen black bear bury a deer in the manner that you are describing.In fact I've seen it twice here in MN and we saw the bear at the site! Both times just the head or antlers were showing.
Here is a link to a story from a couple of years ago mentioning my uncle's farm and surrounding area in central Missouri.
http://www.emissourian.com/news/top_stories/article_8ffad98a-9bf0-5bb4-b677-c85695147d14.html
I believe there is a small population in Missouri.
About 20 years ago my Dad and I were driving out to my uncle's farm at night when about 100 yards in front of the car an animal darted across the road. My Dad and I just looked at each other because we both knew what we saw and it was not a bobcat, coyote etc.
Pretty interesting stuff for around here.
Eric.
:nono: What ever you do, don't tell the Arkansas Game and Fish that you saw a BIG CAT :nono: . They will tell you there are NO mountain lions in the state, but then will tell you that some have escaped from cages and may, and I state MAY be out and about. NUTS, I have seen a couple and know of others who have also. As large as the state is and with all the mountains, I am sure there are some out there, maybe not a lot but some for sure. ;)
I may have to change my tune.I didn't realize the deer had been drug or the liver eaten.I can't imagine a bobcat busting into the rib cage enough to get the liver.It is common for predators and scavengers,even bears to start eating at an opening like a wound.
I'm not sure now but I still would have put a trail camera on it.All conjecture and eculation would be gone in 24 hours.
Very intriguing, guys, and believeable.
The Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency published an article in their magazine stating clearly that there are no mountain lions or cougars in TN. However the guy that wrote the article apparently didn't read the newspaper article which I cut and saved in which a TWRA agent posed with a plaster cast of a mountain lion track from Marion Co., TN!
There has been a lot of talk about them near Chattanooga, and I know folks who say that they have seen them in our area. One story from a forester was more reliable than the other (the panther was in a city park . . .).
Like someone else noted, the cats might not be "wild." A cat found dead on the side of a road in eastern KY was found to be genetically linked to South American cats, not US.
Sometimes, however, the agency guys can be pretty dull-headed too, take FL. The game agency kept telling all the folks who reported panthers that there were none. Then, to prove the poor stupid people wrong, they hired a guide with dogs, I think from ID, and oops, he treed a cat. The first cat was so in-bred that it had malformed "male parts." The agency simply refused to beleive the eyewitnesses and damn near lost the remnant population of Florida panthers all together.
So, I may not always believe the "party line" from the state agency, but I am not likley to believe my buddy who saw bigfoot in Cumberland County, TN (really, no kidding) either.
Hugh Bullock
Signal Mountain, TN
Darren I guess since this post started you've seen the lion that was just killed somewhere between S'field and KC? It was in the S'field Newsleader a few days ago.
A friend/co-worker of mine filmed a HUGE black bear under his stand a few weeks ago by Seymour, MO. It had tags in it's ears and MDC told him it was a sow they were monitoring. Another friend has gotten blackies on trailcams by Ava for several years now.
http://www.news-leader.com/article/20110104/NEWS01/101040332/Mountain-lion-shot-killed-in-K-C-area
I can't say I know if either a bear or lion took that deer, but it's pretty hard to deny they exist in MO with these vidoes! I'm not sure exactly, but this is about 10 miles from my house.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0KI8dhLd8w
I grew up in eastern Ia. When we were living in Sherrill we shared a gravel drive with a meat processor. My mom and I saw a mt. lion coming home one night at the end of the drive next to the neighbor's side door where the animals are brought into his shop. She told my step dad about it. He gave us hell for about a week on that one. That's ok. We know what we saw!
Some people live in lion country with lots of lions...and they NEVER see one. This makes it easy for me to believe that a low number of lions can remain unseen for YEARS!
I seen Bobcats cover there kills in CT. Small deer and fawns just like the pics. Not to say that's from a bobcat. I remember reading in North American Hunter awhile back (5-8yrs) a Lion was hit and killed by a car in southern Iowa. There most likely spreading around. With the deer numbers you folks have out there don't surprise me.
I have had the same expreience with a bobcat here in Alabama.Shot a doe and found her the next morning with hind quarters gone and covered with pinestraw and dirt.Set two #2 victors and Mr. kitty was waiting on me the next morning.
QuoteOriginally posted by Huntschool:
Frequency is based on home range. Lions can range as much as 500 sq miles in areas where food is a bit hard to come by.
The cat sightings near Vienna are likely true. I have seen two in my almost 40 years in the area. This was close up and personal. I am a wildlife guy so, for me at least, there was no guessing... Lion!!! nuff said.
Exactly Huntschool. I spend an unbelievable amount of time outdoors and a good amount of it during trapping season when most folks are tucked away inside nice and warm. I've caught everything that lives in the state of Missouri and I know what we have here. I know my critters!
I don't need any proof to know that mt. lions are here, I've seen one on 2 seperate occasions in 30+ years, so yes....sightings are very, very rare. Just because more of them aren't caught on trail camera doesn't mean those of us who have seen them don't know what we saw.
Great Post KennyM!
It's kinda hard to deny that evidence....HUH?
I bet if you carried those pics and proof into the MDC headquarters they would still try to debunk it.
It's been several years now but just about two miles from my house here in Ashland a friend of mine found one of his feeder calves partially eaten.
That could have been a calf taken down by anything or a bunch of anythings but the evidence that made a believer out of me was his horse that was very much alive.
The horse had bite marks on the back of it's neck and claw marks on it's withers.
The conservation department came out and said that it did appear to be the work of a very large cat of some kind.
All of this happened about a month before a mountain lion was killed on 54 hwy over by Fulton.
The cat was DNA'd and proved to be a young tom from wild stock.
It might not have been the same cat that killed the calf or attacked the horse but no further attacks occurred afterward.
God bless,Mudd
Seeing is believing
I was hiking yesterday looking for Chanterelle mushrooms. I came across a fresh Mountain Lion kill. It was a calf that had been gutted and half it face chewed off.
Not that uncommon around here though.
Carlos:
One sighting that I feel very comfortable with by someone else took place about 4 years ago at the northern end of the property your Dad and I were employed on.
They are in or using Johnson County.....
There have been talks of a large cat in South Jersey a few years ago and some of the horse/sheep farmers had some wound pictures that looked pretty convincing. Of course F&G stated it wasnt a cat,now that I think about it they did the same when the coyotes first showed up.Hmmm! :dunno:
WOW..!!!
Huntschool, I have no doubt what my buddy saw was the real deal. The DNR says it is possible that a young male might be passing thru but there are no breeding populations. The one he saw had a young one in tow and appeared to be teaching it to hunt. I really wish it had been someone who's story I doubted, kinda makes a mile walk back and forth in the dark to the truck seem a little farther thinking they might be around.
I forgot one incident also, my neighbors horse was slashed by something.
Left shoulder up towards neck: If you spread your fingers as far as possible, you could trace 4(if I remember)deep claw wounds
Right shoulder just above front leg: 6" long flap of skin and meat ripped loose about 1" deep.Vet had cleaned and cut off flap before I saw it. Vet said lion,but neighbor never called MDC
Sorry no pics.
These are the kind of things I believe, not the ones where someone's cousin's brother's girlfriend's boss' nephew's babysitter seein one .... :p
Yeah,my best bud saw something in broad daylite too, momma and 2 kittens,kittens went up an oak tree 15 feet from blacktop and he got a long look at em before they worked around the tree and slipped away. He don't tell stories.
Told him he shoulda caught one of the kittys. :laughing:
I'd still like to see one! :D
Waknstak:
Yea, no doubt.... They are here but "here" is a really big area.
I just hope with our almost perfect food source, and more than adaquate cover the breeding potential/productivity of thes guys does not get reached like in Urban British Columbia.....
You guys crack me up !! :bigsmyl:
Tracy
Huntschool, I'm 260, have a bum knee and mostly deaf in one ear. I am a perfect food source. :biglaugh:
Mountain lions were hunted into extinction in most Eastern and Midwestern states during the 1800s and early 1900s. A typical male mountain lion controls 50 to 300 square miles, depending on how plentiful food is. He will allow a few females on his turf but will not accept male intruders.
Research shows that mountain lions will travel enormous distances. In May 2004, a mountain lion wearing a radio tracking collar was killed by a train near Red Rock, Okla. The animal had traveled 661 miles, as the crow flies, in 266 days from the Black Hills of South Dakota. It was twice as far as earlier research had indicated the cats would travel. It tells us they can move long distances in relatively short periods, and that extends their range considerably.
The mountain lion is moving east again. The cougar population appears to be growing in the West, and young males are seeking new territory. Mountain lions are thriving because deer and elk — the cougar's main prey — have grown in numbers.
Mountain lions — real and imagined — have captured the American imagination for centuries.
Been reading this thread - and not one to buy into a conspiracy theory. Do I think I lion eat on that carcass? yeah - especially when the man defined the carcass as having been dragged a number of yards. Unless there are a number of black bear in the area then that has to be a lion. Again tracks/sign tell the tale. As many in this thread I am also a long time trapper have seen two bobcats in my career that went over 30 lbs - have seen a thousand 30lb bobcats that did not top 13 or 15 lbs when put on a proper scale. :knothead:
David Petersons(sp? sorry David) book ghost grizzlies I am reading right now brings up a good point. IF the lions truly exist and someone establishes beyond question a breeding population of Lions in MO what steps, how much monies, and programs will MODNR have to develop to protect these lions?
Basically it is cheaper for them to deny the whole gig just like the grizzlies in CO that they keep saying are not there. (Have not got but to midway the book so unsure the conclusion is they are griz in CO. Great read of a book though if anyone interested)
Just a thought and my opinion on why a DNR may deny the existence of a species. Would be very interested to hear what some of yall think of this.
Jason :campfire:
I talked to your neighbor a couple days after that happened! Scary deal!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by kennym:
I forgot one incident also, my neighbors horse was slashed by something.
Left shoulder up towards neck: If you spread your fingers as far as possible, you could trace 4(if I remember)deep claw wounds
Right shoulder just above front leg: 6" long flap of skin and meat ripped loose about 1" deep.Vet had cleaned and cut off flap before I saw it. Vet said lion,but neighbor never called MDC
Sorry no pics.
These are the kind of things I believe, not the ones where someone's cousin's brother's girlfriend's boss' nephew's babysitter seein one .... :p
Yeah,my best bud saw something in broad daylite too, momma and 2 kittens,kittens went up an oak tree 15 feet from blacktop and he got a long look at em before they worked around the tree and slipped away. He don't tell stories.
Told him he shoulda caught one of the kittys. :laughing:
I'd still like to see one! :D
QuoteOriginally posted by K.S.TRAPPER:
JimB nailed it!! Bobcat :thumbsup: Nice job Jim everbody always thinks mountain lion in the midwest. Yes, Missouri has mountain lions but look for prints or something to prove it.
Tracy
Yup, I saw this and knew another trapper would peg it, lol. Looks like a bobcat to me as well!! Wouldn't say there isn't mountain lions in MO but this setting is a bobcats normal MO!
I guess I left out another pertinent piece of information. My father has trapped off and on for over 50 years. In the late 60's and early 70's he made good money at it and I remember several bobcat hides being stretched, dried, and tanned when I was a kid. All that being said, and relying on his considerable experience with trapping, he still thinks his deer was taken by by a mountain lion.
It is, what it is!
Bobcats can be big, and they can live right under your nose. But they can`t eat that much meat in such a short time. Bobcats ain`t quite that greedy. ;)
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/article_e08c1c9e-24e5-11e0-a8e6-0017a4a78c22.html
Hmmmmm.
Oh no!!!! Right across the river.... Now what shall I do.....
Thats great... admission.
just seen it on the news, MDC confirmed a mountain lion in st. louis county missouri,they had a picture and everything, looked like a trail cam pic.
if i learn more il pass it on..
(http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae69/arrow30_photos/274061340-20151029.jpg)
As far as how much a cat can eat; I gut shot a fork horn late in the afternoon one time. Because I had to get on the job early the next morning, I decided to take up the track at midnight. It was misty and rainy, virtually no bloodtrail, so I was doing a lot of scanning with flashlight. Picked up eyes about a 100 yards in right along a small stream, predator eyes. Procede to the kill and there's the fattest black and white house cat I've ever seen with his head deep into one of the hindquarters. I shoo him away. 8 hours after the shot, and I know it took him awhile to die, and this house cat had chewed his way into one of the quarters and consumed about HALF of it! Had to have eaten 6 pounds of meat. Just sayin...
im sure they eat as much as they can while they can....
Bryant I also saw that picture on Channel 2 news out of St Louis. The picture was taken with a trail cam in Chesterfield Mo.
I like the fact that big cats and wolves have come back I would love to see either one
you can keep both of them in georgia if it was up to me..black bears no big deal you can keep the big cats..how would you like to try an make a living with cattle with wolves an big cats..not me.. i just saw the mountain lion pic on the new on channel 4..night picture on game cam..hate to see it.
Now, did it wander in, or did someone release it when they realized how dumb keeping a bit cat as a pet is?
thats right in my hunting area(within a couple miles) would be cool to see him. but i aint goin lookin.
MDC says they travel along the missouri river,and dont expect him to stay put.
ssshhheeewww kitty go on now......
Plenty of deer in Babbler State Park to keep that cat fat & sassy.
Was at the sports bar for dinner. Saw several cougars on the prowl there..... :bigsmyl:
Killed another one in Mo.
http://mdc.mo.gov/newsroom/hunters-shoot-mountain-lion-near-macon
Hmmmmmm,I reckon there aint any in MO.
So that makes two non captive cats shot dead in the last 20 days. This is becoming interesting at least?
Hey Scott, did you have a shot at them! lol
Not too far from you, Kenny. Real close to my ole stomping grounds. My buddy swears he has one on his property north of Novinger, MO.
I used to hunt near Novinger, we had a cat for a while back then as well. That was about '98 I think.
Just got the whole skinny. It was on an Amish farm. They had a hundred people hunting. They do this every year and kill all the predators they can, but I gotta believe they might have known about this cat and were after it.
My buddy that has property N of Novinger said his son and hunting bud both saw a mountain lion on his place this past firearm deer season (2 different sightings).
all we need is a female and they will repopulate,...seems we got plenty of youg males runnin around mo.
QuoteOriginally posted by arrow30:
all we need is a female and they will repopulate,...seems we got plenty of youg males runnin around mo.
They have......
Yep John, I live about triangulated between Novinger, Laplata, and Carrolton.
I'd still like to see one! :campfire: