Has anyone experienced a riser made from Gaboon Ebony splitting or cracking over time? If so, is this common? Should it be a concern when considering a new bow riser?
Pretty common and seems to be the nature of that wood for me at least. Not to be concerned with though, merely aesthetics.
I have several risers with Gabon and just one shows some cracks,by the way is a bow that is never been strung!!They are only aestetics anyway.
Bowyers have gluing issues with it. I think its a high moisture content wood.
We won't use it any more because of the problems with cracking down the road. Most woods settle in at a MC and are fine from then on. Ebony will crack years later.
Mike
Hmmm. As paranoid (and cheap) as I am, it already sounds like one that I might avoid. Especially considering the fact that there's usually an upcharge associated with it. Are there any other woods to be wary of for similar reasons? (for use in risers)
The only two piece Shrew bow made with a BowBolt that has EVER failed was the one that was made for "Irish" as the St. Jude auction bow a couple of years ago. The failure was entirely due to the problems associated with the Gaboon ebony, not the BowBolt, the design of the Shrew, or the construction of the bow. There are now dozens of two piece Shrews with the BowBolt that have never had any problems. Gregg Coffey now insists on using at least a lamination of phenolic material in the riser to add the strength and stability to prevent a repeat of the one failure with the solid Gaboon ebony riser. The phenolic is an attractive alternative to Gaboon ebony without the problems that have been related in this thread.
Mike Westvang knows what he is talking about and has made a very informed decision not to use Gaboon ebony on future bows. The bow that I consider to be the most beautiful bow in the world, the Blacktail Snakebit, uses both Snakewood and Gaboon ebony in the riser -- two woods that are among the very worst for cracking and checking. Norm Johnson recognizes these problems, but continues to build bows from these incredibly beautiful materials. I had Norm build a Snakebit for me, and it is one of my prized possessions, despite its propensity for problems over time. Unless the looks of certain woods is your primary interest in a bow, I would steer away from some of them like Gaboon ebony. By the way, Snakewood laminations on limbs are not a problem because they are so thin they do not have a moisture retention issue.
Most of the true ebonies can have similar problems as Gaboon ebony, just not as bad. That includes Black and White (also known as Dalmatian) ebony, and Macassar ebony, both of which I love and which are used extensively for building bows. Texas ebony is not a true ebony and is very stable. It is more similar to bacote. Leopard wood looks somewhat like Snakewood but is not not nearly as striking; however, it does not have the problems of Snakewood because it is entirely different in its structure. Mike Westvang and other bowyers who work with the various woods all the time are the best people to advise you on the best woods to use in a bow.
Allan
Allan, thanks very much for all of the great info. I was actually curious if snakewood would fall into the same category as gaboon. I'm not concerned enough about gaboon's appearance to risk future problems, so I think I'll steer clear. It seems as though a lot of the ultra-hard woods might be susceptible to cracking/splitting down the road.
Wow, I have a Snakebit on order with the typical Gaboon and Snakewood. I also have a Silvertip with Macassar ebony.
Cosmetic or not, if the bow gets cracks in it this camper will be unhappy. Dad burn it. I love highly figured Macassar and would hate not to use it in my upcoming Silvertip.
I've got a Morrison Gabon Ebony Riser I had made in 2000 and haven't had any issues with it. And I throw mine out of the tree every time I get out of it as long as it lands in the bushes...I've only blown up 1 set of limbs surprisingly.
No cracks or anything bad...
A very dry climate can help to crack some woods,when a humid weather doesn't affect the same woods.Living in places like the Rocky Mountain is a good tip to stay away from Ebonies,but on other places this isn't a great issue.Your home micro clima can play an important rule as well.
I have never seen gabon that did not check and I have used a lot of it. My solution is to make sure it is absolutely dry and then to stabilize it by thinning smooth on with acetone and soaking it really good with that. Then I further seal it with several more coats and finally with several coats of cyronauralate. Finally I finish it with Tru Oil until it is like glass. So far no cracks in any of them after I have done all of that but still there is no way I would ever guarantee that ebony will not check over time. It is not nearly as bad as snakewood but it does check. I also reccomend using a sandwich and I beam construction when using ebony of any kind for maximum strength. Other than that and that it is a real pain in the tail to finish it properly it looks fantastic.
I am just finishing a bow for Andy Cooper that has gabon in it. I can't think of anything off hand that would replace the gabon for the classic esthetics that this bow has,. There is a classic richness that you do not get with anything else.
God Bless you all and have a great new Year, Steve
Kewl, Steve! Looks like I'll be posting some pictures and a report before too long!
:bigsmyl: :bigsmyl:
Not long now. Just a few more details and I will be sending you some pics. This bow is drop dead gorgeous.
God Bless and Have a great New Year, Steve
I just got wind of this thread and I was wanting Macassar Ebony as my riser wood choice and now I don't think I want it and appreciate the comments about the wood and Thank you bowyers for sheding light on the topic of ebony wood in bows...Now how about Ziracote it seems to look somewhat the same as Maccasser ebony as far as what I can see and it seems to be one of the oily wood species but what are your thoughts on that wood as a riser wood choice if it's cleaned and glued properly ? Does it have fisher's or cracking to worry about down the road? If by any means this falls into what they call hijacking a thread please let me know because my intentions were not to do that but to jump on board about the Ebony topic and find a wood that looks like it without the cracking problem...Thanks, and forgive me if I did do something wrong... :dunno:
I got to but in here and say that the Mac ebony is very stable in my opinion. I have made several risers from it with 0 problems. Like Sixby sez seal um up good for best results.
I have a Brackenbury Legend that was made in 2004.
It has a Macassar Ebony riser and has not had any problems.
John
i just got on big jims list for a thunderchild.i want dalmation ebony and zircote.now you guys have got me worried about my choice.i still have time to change.i have a 6 month wait,steve :knothead:
Ebony is prone to crack and I have turned down the sale of a bow because I won't use it in my bows. Two good alternatives to ebony (for those that like dark) are phenolic and/or wenge. Wenge is very porous but it is very tough and makes an excellent riser wood. One just has to do several coats of finish with some extra buffing to fill the pores.
Here is a picture of wenge.
(http://www.woodworking.org/WC/Woods/265H.jpeg)
Macassar and black and white are very stable. Gaboon and some of the others can have issues as will a lot of the really dense woods. The biggest problem is moisture content. I have bought several pieces of wood that I was told was very dry only to find out that it wasn't even close to being dry. They will sit on the shelf for a while.
I've got friends that are bowyers that don't even own a moisture meter. They must rely on the word of the man selling the wood(he is never wrong).
Wenge is a nice wood and I use it too. Not a good choice if you like mass weight in the riser. It is very light compared to most bow woods.
Wood takes a real long time to air dry. Hardwood takes even longer. Many of the problems in question could have been caused by any one of a multitude of problems such as: wood too wet when built, poor quality finish or improperly applied, improper storage, scratches allowing moisture back in, crack was there when the bow was built and never noticed. ----Or it could have been one of those things that happens because everything has been going too good for too long.
Bigjim
Wenge isn't as heavy as ebony, but it is about 20-25% heavier than maple, which many consider a standard riser wood. It isn't a "heavy" wood, but I do consider wenge a moderately dense and heavy wood (many pieces are similar to osage's specific gravity, while others may be 10% lighter than osage). Equal to zebra wood. I myself certainly would not classify wenge as a light wood.
The original question was concerning Gaboon Ebony and it is very unpredictable. There are too many other options to get the same or simular looks too gamble on a bow cracking.
We still use Zircote, Mac Ebony and B&W ebony with great success.
Mike
I use about 50 board feet of Mecassar Ebony per year.I very rarely have an issue with it.If you are thinking of haveing a bow built with Ebony in it, and the bowyer you have chosen says no problem.Then why would you worry about what others say.He is the man that has to back the warranty.
Bill
Well said Bill. Bob Morrison made my last bow with Gaboon in the handle. Two years and no issues at all. If someone with Morrisons experience uses it then it's OK by me. Bob isn't going to put a $1400.00 bow out there if it's going to fail.
Like I said I use it but with a phenolic I beam. The phenolic is pleanty strong for the entire riser even if the wood did somehow fail or get a check. I would think if it was going to check it would do it after a few hours in the hotbox at 180 though.
FYI, I agree. I am not saying it can't be used. I never had a problem with it, but after all I have never used it. LOL. In all seriousness, I do know of several ebony bows that have failed others. Given its tendency to be less durable than other woods I would just never trust it enough to use it, I personally find to be superior when all things are considered. A bow can be waranteed...but I would HATE IT if a bow failed out in the middle of nowhere in a once in a lifetime hunt. That of course isn't refundable.
QuoteOriginally posted by leatherneck:
Well said Bill. Bob Morrison made my last bow with Gaboon in the handle. Two years and no issues at all. If someone with Morrisons experience uses it then it's OK by me. Bob isn't going to put a $1400.00 bow out there if it's going to fail.
Not necessarily true..... I've got a Macassar headed back to him rt now and know of another being boxed as I type this. :(
I believe it happens to the best of them. It was expaned to me that some pieces are more stable than others and that some of it has to do w/ the dryness of the wood and the bonding process, but what do I know.
We dont use it any more,we have had problems in the past when we did.It is nice looking,i do miss that.But the problems and risk dont make it worth it.
I dont think there is any question that you can always send it back to the bowyer to be re-made.The bigger issue is do you really want to take that chance.Do you want it to happen on a hunt.Also we all get abet atached to our bows,animals we have shot with them,shoots we have won ect.You have to ask your self,is it worth it? There are alot of wood choices out there that look very nice that have much less problems.
Is the bowyer experience with Macassar the same as Gaboon? I LOVE Macassar with lots of brown streaks and have a bow planned with it.
Sorry,about the question above... I read more of the posts and I see that the jury is still out on Macassar? Some use it without issue but I did note the post above involving two Macassars going back. I guess I'll just ask the bowyer and go with his advice.
I would switch. Bowyers, like all of us, are just people. The smaller risers are more likely to get away with it without issue...as less wood is less prone to crack...but there are just so many other woods that also look good that make excellent risers that I personally wouldn't risk using it regardless of if I made bows or not.
Any wood is susceptible to failure or checking. That's just the nature of wood. Grain structure, layout in the bow, moisture of the wood, and sealing can all be perfect, yet the wood is still subject to failure. I suspect bowyers do all they can to minimize the chances of problems, but in the end, we're still dealing with a somewhat unstable natural material that is put together by imperfect people.
Sixby and I visited about the use of gaboon in the bow he's finishing up for me. We decided to use the phenolic I beam in the riser for strength and the gaboon to contrast the cocobolo in both the riser and belly lams. He went to a lot of work to stabilize and seal it. I have no qualms whatsoever about it's use in my bow...even though it is mostly cosmetic and not so much stress, or load-bearing.
Here's some pics from the riser glue-up.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs994.snc4/76773_172413656122094_100000603834892_488349_5552640_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs994.snc4/76773_172413649455428_100000603834892_488347_3376926_n.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowwild:
Sorry,about the question above... I read more of the posts and I see that the jury is still out on Macassar? Some use it without issue but I did note the post above involving two Macassars going back. I guess I'll just ask the bowyer and go with his advice.
I wouldn't hesitate to use it in a bow again Roy. Both of the risers I mentioned are showing sighs of seperation between the Macassar and the phenolic at the flair area. The wood itself is not giving way...it just seems that it may have had moisture or wasn't cured 100% when put together.
Sure cant' beat it's beauty when matched w/ the right wood combo's!
Thanks Mike!
Just found this........... Gabon is a very good Riser wood, it will develop crack like any other wood,You just need to fill them. I'm glad to hear some Bowyers?? will not use it as having too much moisture? any wet wood will crack, trick is to get dry wood or don't use it. I know a couple good BOWYERS that can and do use it with real good success.