I few years ago I sold a Dwyer 64" original longbow. It had bamboo cores, bocote veneers, a bocote riser with a black ebony arch. Man it was gorgeous. I have regretted selling it ever since. A few weeks ago I had the opportunity to buy it back!(Thanks Bob!) I picked it up from the post office, set the BH and took it hunting the same afternoon. I took a nice doe with it that very evening. She was in the field with 3 others and they never had a clue. The doe I shot did not even know she was hit until she fell over within site. I forgot how smooth, quiet and forgiving a D bow is to shoot. I ended up taking 2 more does with the bow before the season ended. I guess something else I realized is speed is not what it is cracked up to be! I would rather have a slow, quiet forgiving bow any day. I think I just realized that D bows just fit my style better!
Quiet is important to me. Forgiving is nice in case of a poor release or other "outside force".
I can do without searching specifically for slow. I have enough slow to suit me in all my bows. Stability and accuracy are more important, but speed is welcome when it comes along. :biglaugh:
Here is a picture!
please resize all posted pics no wider than 640
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x29/chopncut/Dwyer1-2.jpg[/IMG]
I have recurve and longbows, actually to many, but I find myself always leaning towards an old Mahaska that I have that just shoot so nice. 66" 46# @ 28, I draw 29". "D" shaped, smooth ,and silent. Not real fast but it is just a joy to shoot!
A bow can be quiet, forgiving, and fast. As far as the speed argument goes I wholeheartedly disagree with the statement that speed is overrated. Everyone will agree that the most important aspect of bow hunting is accuracy, a trait that will trump many other problems. The faster your bow the flatter the trajectory, which in turn is easier to aim. I say speed is the among the most important traits as it directly attributes to shot accuracy.
Thousands of Archers before us proved this style over and over,somethings just can't be made better.Speed is just one factor in the overall picture,many more important things come into play in hunting situations.
I like a heavy, front of center arrow set up. 95% of all my hunting shots are within 20 yards, most are inside 15 yards. The heavier arrow makes the D bow quieter, and slower, but on the flip side the deer never hear it coming and I almost always get a pass through!
Slayer,
my go to bow is a 66 inch mohwak, D shaped bow. It is 54 pounds at my 30 inch draw. I used to shoot my Tolke Whip 48 @ 30 and it is so quiet and smooth. IT screams as well!! But I seem to alway have the less pretty, slower D shaped bow in my hand when chasing deer. I just love the bow. It is quiet, slower but I would not say slow, loves heavy arrows and the last deer I shot with it never knew it. She walked away 60 yards, laid down, looked around, put her head sown and died quietly. Complete pass through by the way.
I love my D bow!
Bob.
I'd love FAST, quiet, and forgiving.
I settle for slow, quiet and forgiving...and accurate for me.
I prefer a quiet bow to a noisy bow. I have two recurves and since I don't take a shot over 20 yards, speed isn't a factor for me so both bows shoot very heavy arrows. My accuracy isn't due to speed. It's due to the low poundage bows I shoot.
I wanted a very heavy arrow with very little arrow drop between 10 and 20 yards and the arrow had to make the bow quiet. This is why my 42# take down recurve shoots a 637 grain arrow at 153 fps. With this very heavy arrow, my bow is so whisper quiet upon arrow release, it doesn't need and has no string silencers on it. The very heavy arrow, on a broadside lung shot, goes through a deer like a hot knife goes through butter via a pass through.
QUESTION:What are some good traditional shaped(D?)longbows, besides the Dwyer? Especially ones with locator type grips(I can't shoot the broom handle style grip)
Thanks
Great Northern makes an excellent one called the traditional.I haven't shot one but I also admire the longbows by Jay St Charles.
Take a look at Lynn Harrelson Achery, a sponsor here, makes a very good bow at a reasonable price. I own one and trying to get the bucks for another.
QuoteOriginally posted by tarponnut:
QUESTION:What are some good traditional shaped(D?)longbows, besides the Dwyer? Especially ones with locator type grips(I can't shoot the broom handle style grip)
Thanks
you want, er, you
need to get yer hands on a
mohawk! (http://www.mohawkbows.com)
Tarponnut,
Mohawk bows are super and lot of guys talk about them on this site. Also, Dan Tolke makes a clasic longbow D shaped , truley excellent. I believe apex predator, makes a great D bow as well. These all have locator grips, are extremely well made, and are affordable with as good of performance as you can get with this style of bow.
Good luck.
Bob.
Quiet, heavy arrows, that's me. I shoot arrows that weigh 700 gr total and barely hear a thump out of my Apex Predator longbow. My bow is plenty quick. I am sure it is not super fast with those heavy arrows, but the deer never know how fast it's going :)
Thanks for the story. Never figured I sacrificed speed but then never worried about it either. Never chrono'ed my bows. Good lesson here S1.
Great story! Slow, quiet, and forgiving aren't bad traits for hunters, either!!
I'm 100% happy with the speed I'm getting out of my recurves because they feel great in my hand during the whole shot process & seem to me to be very forgiving & quiet.
If any of my bows are pushing over 180 it's only because I over drew them which suits me because as long as I hit what I'm shooting at I'm happy.
I cant see the picture :banghead:
Hitting and not spooking game far outweight speed in my book. I love a fast bow. I hunt with a quiet mid speed bow. Love the part where he posts the deer didn't even know it was hit. No string jumping means more meat on the ground.
If you want a slow, very quiet forgiving bow there is nothing better than a self bow with wood arrows. They make no noise shooting and shoot a lot slower than a regular bow, but not that much shower. There is something about carrying a self bow and a quiver of woodies in the woods.
Im with Wolleybugger selfbow. But my second choice would be a Hill style D bow.
Slow is also just a relitive term. My D bow is from Windstorm archery that I've had for about 16 yrs now. Its noticably slower than my Leon Stewart or my predator recurve (all 60@28) but it still spits an arrow out nicely and is Oh so much quieter. I usually shoot woodies in the 650 gr range and watch my fletching disappear as the arrows pass through. Usually the deer then jump from the arrow hitting dirt and just walk away and fall over. I also get another shot sometimes after the 1st warning shot.......
I find it curious how some folks think that a bow has to be slow to be quiet and 'forgiving' what's up with that?
It is hard to imagine Howard Hill ever hit anything with that all wood junk he was using back in the old days. At least until you shoot that all wood junk.
65# 68" "Hill Bow" with 500g woodies! around 180fps, just under 8gpp!!, 16 strand dacron string, no silencers!! at 5 yds it is inaudable. I like it, smooth, like cheesecake.
Thank you Bjorn, the only fellow who sees it my way.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
I find it curious how some folks think that a bow has to be slow to be quiet and 'forgiving' what's up with that?
x 2
If you have 180 fps versus 210 fps at twenty yards, the slower bow will not cause the arrow to drop that much farther than the faster arrow to cause a automatic miss. however, if the 210 fps bow was loud and touchy with a buck fever release, that could make a big difference. Certainly not all fast bows are loud and touchy, but the slow quiet ones get the job done often enough to give them serious respect.
QuoteOriginally posted by hvyhitter:
Slow is also just a relitive term. My D bow is from Windstorm archery that I've had for about 16 yrs now. Its noticably slower than my Leon Stewart or my predator recurve (all 60@28) but it still spits an arrow out nicely and is Oh so much quieter. I usually shoot woodies in the 650 gr range and watch my fletching disappear as the arrows pass through. Usually the deer then jump from the arrow hitting dirt and just walk away and fall over. I also get another shot sometimes after the 1st warning shot.......
Slow is a relative term. And that is a good point to make. I have had a lot of bows over the years and the D bows are always, consistently more quiet. Maybe not necessarily slow.....if all I cared about was speed I would go and shoot wheels. Point I was trying to make is a quiet forgiving set up works much better for me and the conditions I hunt better than speed type set up.
Quiet and forgiving are not mutually exclusive. Nor does an arrow have to be "heavy" to shoot quietly and obtain optimum penetration. Personally I like fast, quiet and forgiving.
Speed is also relative to distance. If you limit yourself to fairly close shots, not so important. If you shoot long...which is an individual distance, very important.
Quiet? You bet!
Forgiving? On a freezing cold day after sitting 3+ hours motionless..., yeah. But in general I'd rather bet on my shooting abilities than the forgiveness of my bow.
No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love quiet and forgiving. I want a bow that is quiet and forgiving and so fast you can't see the arrow. Well hardly. I like to hear the arrow hit the target when I release the string.
Speed is important and even if you don't hunt past 20 yards you still need to practice further out. The new TBM has an article about it and it is very true.
What is slow?
My two bows shoot between 153-155 feet per second (fps) and many people call that slow.
Your arrow is too slow if your flight path is such an arch that you have trouble hitting targets squarely past 30 yards.
i like a good blend of quiet, smooth and fast.
to slow you have to be better at judging distance. with range finder it sure does help though. plus less penetration
During my last 47 years shooting a recurve, I've never taken a shot at an archery target that was 30 yards away and I never will for the simple reason all of my killing shots at live game have been at 20 yards and under with my slow and heavy arrows. I think the majority of my killing shots have been between 12-17 yards. I think the longest shot I've ever taken at a stationary archery target, not live game, was 23 yards and I deemed that "too far" for me.
QuoteOriginally posted by bigbadjon:
Your arrow is too slow if your flight path is such an arch that you have trouble hitting targets squarely past 30 yards.
How big a target? I have fast bows that won't do that. :biglaugh:
Or if a gray squirrel can look up and side-step the arrow (I have seen this happen with a friend's self bow). And we all know a slow and noisy bow (or buzzing fletch) isn't what you want to go after a whitetail with or you'll kill nothing but dry leaves past 20 yards.
Fast and quiet just dont seem to go together very often. Not from my own experence just some trad bows I have stood next to when shot by other archers. Seen some tradbows with every type of silencer made for them on the bow and still sound like a 22 going off. Probably the archer not knowing how to set up the bow, I dont know, dont care like what I like. That sounds really negative I just mean that I prefer the straight profile bows, though I own one reflex/deflex pronghorn, but it isnt fast by todays 180+ standard I think that what it is I remember when it was 160.
Stumpkiller makes good point. Even with my quiet selfbow buzzing maxifletch made it probable that mullies would just step away or duck my arrows. Now I use a 4.5 inch low back bananna, and what a difference. Now the deer just walk over and smell the arrow after I have missed and walk away (^8 not knowing what or where it came from.
LOVE EM !!!!!!!!!!!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by Stumpkiller:
Quiet is important to me. Forgiving is nice in case of a poor release or other "outside force".
I can do without searching specifically for slow. I have enough slow to suit me in all my bows. Stability and accuracy are more important, but speed is welcome when it comes along. :biglaugh:
X2! Very well said.
I am going to an all Howard Hill line-up with the exception of one Maddog recurve that will be for turkey, play and maybe elk if the area is to thick in brush for a longbow.
Congratulations, I will take quiet and accurate over speed and noise any day!!! Thanks Jerry.
I suppose if given the choice between slow and fast, I'll opt for the faster...just as long as the quiet and forgiving part is present!! :D :archer2:
It doesn't get anymore forgiving than a D-Bow. They are quieter than anything else too. D-Bows seem to be tougher as well so you can use em for a club :goldtooth: . No matter what bow I wonder to I always seem to find my way back to a Mild r/d or d-bow.
IMHO quiet and forgiving are absolute necessities. The only speed that is important, whether fast or slow, is the one your mind is trained to!
Spanky
You know, I am very impressed when a bowyer can build a bow, use an arrow that is at least 9 grains per pound of draw, and flirt with 200 fps. But my favorite bows to shoot are self bows. The nicest shooting bow I've shot to date was one made by Ed Scott, sinew and raw hide backed juniper.
When I started out to build bows for myself my goal was to reproduce the early fiberglassed longbows from back in the late 40's/early 50's, when glass was new and everyone was amazed at what could be done with it compared to just wood lam bows. I've made some nice, smooth, easy shootin' bows and certainly had fun with them.
In any field, what used to work doesn't stop working just because something more effective comes along. To me, traditional means trying to do as well with the same equipment as was used in the period you admire, not seeing if you can do better with better equipment. It's a challenge, and fun.
Right now I'm experimenting with a glassed all bamboo lams extreme string follow longbow...
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h186/CaptainDick/bamboozle84.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h186/CaptainDick/bamboozle86.jpg)
It's either going to be the slowest longbow around or the smoothest... maybe both! :^)
QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Mecredy:
You know, I am very impressed when a bowyer can build a bow, use an arrow that is at least 9 grains per pound of draw, and flirt with 200 fps. But my favorite bows to shoot are self bows. The nicest shooting bow I've shot to date was one made by Ed Scott, sinew and raw hide backed juniper.
I had a 70# Dan Quillion Patriot recurve that would toss my 600 gr 23/64" cedar shafts over 200 fps. It was a miserable thing to shoot, I thought. Sold it to a guy whose socks just rolled up and down as he shot it and he was happy as a pig in sh . . . very happy with it. It was just not smooth in my hands or an instrument suitable to my shooting rhythm.
That is the key. When you shoot a bow and it feels right
to you (or whispers softly to you) that is a bow you will be happy with. If the arc is pronounced but your ballistic brain cells think along that arc you will be happy and accurate. Currently I am finding I grab my 52# Browning Explorer when I just want to go out and loose shafts at a bale. That first arrow appears where it should be, and quickly. It is relatively noisy (not rimfire noisy but snap a dry branch noisy - excessive); but I haven't worked at quieting it as I haven't hunted with it and have lighter bows I hunt with. I'd have to do something about the shiney gloss finish, too. In my hands it is my most accurate.
Then there is my Ben Pearson Hunter. Weighs just an ounce more than half of what that Explorer weighs and is 4" shorter and whisper quiet. And it spits a 580 gr arrow out with determination. Not quite so accurate, not quite so stable, not quite so fast; but it is a hunting tool for certain. Again, for a hunting bow, that first arrow is the one that needs to be where you want it and in the vitals is good enough.
QuoteYour arrow is too slow if your flight path is such an arch that you have trouble hitting targets squarely past 30 yards.
Such a statement probably is a just a bit broad maybe ...
I don't believe that accurate , forgiving and fast are mutually exclusive . There are many bows that carry all these qualities
Some of us prefer bows that to many others seem slow...But to us they are quiet, forgiving and just plain fun to hunt with.
after hunting and shooting bows for the past 30 years I'd be very hesitant to tell anyone that there arrows are too slow because they have trouble keeping their arrows on target past 30 yards ... A couple of blokes I know , one of whom celebrated his 1000th wild boar kill a few years ago , would be lucky to see the target at 30 yards .. and his 45# self bows and 700gn arrows are a testament to good hunting skills and a quiet forgiving bow .
Could Glenn have killed these animals with a faster bow ? YOU BET !
But he didn't need too.....
to me, it's about examining what trad bowhunting is all about, and as such i see it as a short shot hunt that stays inside of 20 yards for the most part and ventures to 30 yards either some times or rarely.
with that in mind, most any stick bow can get the job done. the better ones for me excel in 'stability' first and speed second. finding a stable longbow that flys heavy arrows without much trajectory difference 'tween 20 and 30 yards is what i seek ...
... got one. ;)
I agree, Rob. I would much rather see how close I can get, instead of how far away I can hit! But that's me...to each her/his own.