I just shot my 67# spined doug fir arrows along with my 58# cedars-both are 29" to BOP and 125 grains up front with the same fletching (5 3/8" bananna). from 15 yards, they all grouped together. 2 arrows of each type, and I could make a circle with both thumbs and middle finger and they all would fit inside of it.
I am at a total loss as to how to explain it, but as long as it's working, I'm not gonna mess with it. The doug fir are even a little heavier by about 60 grains, and at the Kzoo show, I'm going to buy and try the internal nail footing to see what happens with that.
I know that science proves me wrong, but actual results speak volumes to me.
Can someone please explain why my arrows that are spined 10# differently are flying the exact same, especially when Stu's calculator it tells me I need 76# spined arrows which would make them 10# and 20# less than the calculator recommends? The bow I'm using is a 64" 57# @ 28" RER LXR (using the longbow limbs) and I'm pulling the bow to 27 1/2" to reach my anchor.
an enigma inside an anomaly... LOL
I suspect you have a great release and... though math works in formula presentation it leaves very little opportunity for unusual occurrences.
Go with it son, go with it......
For me most arrows will shoot in a group up to 10-15 yards. Back up to 25-30 and see if they still group the same.
When I shoot too stiff a spine they won't group.LCH
Fletching hides a multitude of sins-easily 10# even 20 at times.
Big feathers. Try bareshaft and you'll likely see the difference.
What Bjorn said X10 and what NorthernCaliforniaHunter said too ! Whip out a good sharp knife and trim the feathers off one arrow of each and your eyes will be opened !
It is so hard to get folks to bareshaft tune and I just never understood that..... ? I guess it is just awful hard to cut feathers off a perfectly fletched arrow.... ? Sorta like a parachute jumper jumping out of a perfectly good airplane, haha ! We make our own and always have a bareshaft or two in the dozen for tuning purposes. We just don't fletch a few and also incorporate these bareshafts into our practice round to keep everything in tune.
If your shooting 15 yards or less, you're all set like you said.
If you expect to shoot at over, check your grouping at 20 and 25. You will probably see a difference with a bit of distance.
Big feathers on wood shafts are wonderful. I do not know that you would see much difference at twenty yards either. Perhaps thirty-five yards the weight difference will be easier to see, even though they may both be flying straight. Bare shaft testing on wood is not the same as weight forward carbons. Then again, who hunts with bare wood shafts anyway.
I don't plan on bare shafting for the simple reason that is they fly and group great-no matter the spine or weight for my comfortable shooting distance-I'm not gonna mess with it. I didn't know if I'm doing something right or wrong, but whatever it is, it's working. When I either get dressed better or warms up, I will do the same test at 25 yards and report back my findings. It is 20 degrees here today, and I was in shorts a t-shirt and crocks. So I was kinda rushed. LOL
I guess I was more curious if anybody else has experienced the same circumstances.
Put a big Magnus 1 BH on them and see if they still go where their supposed to.
Eric
Grapes,
If it works, go with it. :bigsmyl: Then maybe bareshaft them.
I'm thinking along the lines of Westbrook. Try some broadheads and you may see vastly different results...or maybe not.
Bare shafting and the such makes me loopy. If it works for ya, go with it. I paper tune these days. If I get good results with an arrow through paper, I go with it. If it flys good for you, thats all that matters! Jason
Like what was said above, put broadheads on those puppies and you will probably see a difference. You may have a super good release, I had a friend like that once that could shoot anything out of anything.
Jack
Put some 4" feathers on them and that will tell you the truth. If you are tuned that is all the feather you need.
Jack
Some bows are way more tolerant of big spine differences. I'm not shocked.
Remember less than one trillionth of a percent of all animals ever killed with a bow and arrow were done so with arrows that had been "monkey-tuned" like some people do these days.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jack Denbow:
, I had a friend like that once that could shoot anything out of anything.
Jack
That does make sense. At our spring shoot I ran out of arrows for the Camp Cuervo ARMY strong challenge, so I used my son's 25# spined arrows out of my 51# Wesley Special. They did just as good as my 55-60# arrows. I never thought about the release, so I'm just going to accept that it is whatit is, and enjoy the ability to shoot different spines. Thanks for the input guys.
if you have two sets of arrows that shoot well out of the same bow drawn the same draw length, then the set that is physically heavier will also statically spine heavier than the set that is physically lighter. This has to be as the physical weight of the shaft has to be borne by it's own stiffness as it paradoxes around the bow shelf.
Moon phases. It's all down to Moon phases.
If it ain't broke, don't screw about with it. Yes, if you bareshaft you may find that one's too stiff & t'other's too weak, but you aren't hunting with bareshafts so why worry. Glue on whatever broadheads tickles your pickle, shoot 'em again & see if it changes anything, if it don't then go slip one through a pig.
Bollocks to the physics!
:D
You have recieved some excellent advice -- greater distance and broadhead performance may give you different results, even with excellent form. Good luck, Jerry.
Science is great, results are better, and blind luck is the best.
If it isn't broke, don't fix it.
Is the bow cut to center? That can make a big difference on spines that are compatible with your bow.
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve H.:
Remember less than one trillionth of a percent of all animals ever killed with a bow and arrow were done so with arrows that had been "monkey-tuned" like some people do these days.
Love the way you put that Steve!
My question to all of you who think he should cut the feathers off to "see what the shafts are really doing" is this--what more could you possibly do than to have a fletched arrow that flies perfectly? So, if the bareshaft results indicate weak or stiff, nock low or high, whatever........how do you reconcile that with a fletched shaft that flies perfectly? Since the feathered version is the one we will ultimately use to hunt with, wouldn't those results be the most poignant?
Since I'm on a little bit of a soap box already--why should we
need to use smaller feathers? I undoubtedly agree that smaller feathers do require a more precisely tuned shaft, but if the 5.5" feathers, again, yield a broadhead-tipped shaft that flies perfectly, then what more could we ask for? I've heard the argument for years about larger feathers and slowing the shaft down, but do they make enough of a difference in velocity and drop to outweigh the benefits (at hunting distances especially)? Now, granted, there has to be a point of diminishing returns or else we would use 8" feathers or flu-flus to hunt with, but a 5.5" feather is really rather common with stickbow shooters, and I don't see where it is holding us back any.
Anyway, as Rob so eloquently states, YMMV