Any ideas how to add weight to cedar arrows???
My 75/80 spine cedars are 31 inches long and weight 600 grains with a 160-grain point. Not bad for weight. But there are plenty of ways. Heavier points and woody weights, internal footing jig,soaking in Watco Danish Oil. All good ways...
Soak them in Watco Danish Oil for a few days, you will be amazed at what they will gain in weight! I do this with all my shafts, just be sure to top off each night as they will soak up some and drop the level of the stain! You wanna keep 'em submerged totally, and dry 'em for the same amout of days that you soak them!
nail footing works great and adds at least 60 grains where it counts most, up front. 3rivers sells the nail footing jig,
Footing jig here as well. My cedars weigh in at 680 grains 31" long.
Are there any lead products that would fit inside the hole drilled using the footing jig? I haven't tried mine, yet.
Woodie weights....75 to over 200 grains on the front of your arrow.
Trade the cedar in for some fir. :bigsmyl:
I gotta think that nail footing has to strengthen the shaft as well.
Eric
Andy, I've been using 1/8" lead wire. It weighs 35 gr/in. A 2" hole is pretty easy to drill and 3" is about my practical limit. I use a different method to drill the hole, but the result is the same. If you want to try some, let me know.
btw, you can substitute bamboo skewer for the nail and just stiffen up the front end behind the point without adding weight, where strength is needed to foil breaks.
QuoteOriginally posted by Fletcher:
Trade the cedar in for some fir. :bigsmyl:
yes indeed! surewoods from braveheart are the cat's meow of woodies! :thumbsup:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/1024-1.jpg)
What Rob said. Can't beat a surewood! IMO. Those feathers look bigger than your usual Rob.
Keeping the Faith!
Magnus
A good 190 Ribtek will also add some weight. Cut's a rather large hole too.
INCOMING!
Great timing on this as I was just wondering how others added weight to wood shafts.
To those who have done the internal footing how does the weight affect the spine of the arrows? Do you need to move up in spine if you plan to internally foot? If so how much upwards?
Thanks!
woodies can be more temperamental with regards to spine, particularly with added up front weight. testing is the only way to know for sure.
my 55-60 surewoods are fine with 200 in the nose. just finishing up a 6 pack of 65-70 surewoods w/260 front ends, gotta see ...
QuoteOriginally posted by Fletcher:
Trade the cedar in for some fir. :bigsmyl:
I'm going to try that coupled with the nail in the end jig to see what happens with my fir shafts. I have some thoughts and plans for where this will be really useful.
Grapes. Can you say bison?
Keeping the Faith!
Magnus
Looks like I will jump in and do some experimenting. Thanks
I found with the internal weight that I needed roughly 1 lb spine for each 10 gr of added weight. It seems that the further forward the weight is the more spine is needed. With points, it is more like 1 lb for 7-8 gr of point weight.
If you want to try some of the lead wire, let me know. It is heavier than the steel, very easy to work with and pretty cheap at $1/ft.
My experience has been the same as Fletcher's. That also means that if you shoot a moderate weight bow or have a long draw length, you may "run out" of spine weight. For example, if you shoot a 55# high performance center cut or cut past center bow with a fast flite string at 29 inches, you'll probably need at least 70-75# spine to start with. Bump the point weight to 200 or more and you'll need 85# or more spine.. That's just about impossible to find in 11/32 cedar, rare in11/32 Doug fir, etc.
QuoteOriginally posted by Fletcher:
I found with the internal weight that I needed roughly 1 lb spine for each 10 gr of added weight. It seems that the further forward the weight is the more spine is needed. With points, it is more like 1 lb for 7-8 gr of point weight.
If you want to try some of the lead wire, let me know. It is heavier than the steel, very easy to work with and pretty cheap at $1/ft.
that being said, does centershot bows have a factor on this, or does it eliminate the need to go up in spine at all?
Grapes, I did most of my testing with a pronghorn LB, and don't have anything that is cut past center. Adding point weight with a deep cut / center shot bow requires a heavier spine, so I would assume insert weight would, too.
My findings are the same as Rick's. I use a 1/8"X2" tungsten rod for footing which weighs 100gr. and I have to go up 10# in spine. My arrows weigh about 760gr. and hit with authority.
Jack
". . . hit with authority."
Ya gotta love the sound of that, pun intended.
I soak the front 4 to 5" of my shafts in the Watco oil before I stain the rest. It adds about 30 grains to the front. Then I drill and add the nail.
I don't know, Maybe I'm missing something...
It just seems SILLY to me,to worry about adding weight to wood!!! :confused:
Carbon,is carbon... Aluminium,is aluminium.....
But wood????? There are so many DIFFERANT kinds of wood!!!!!
If you want a REAL heavy arrow, Go with Hickory,or Ash. Durability will rival an carbon shaft out there!!!!!
If you want a heavy FOC, you can ALWAYS go with a heavier broadhead.....
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
btw, you can substitute bamboo skewer for the nail and just stiffen up the front end behind the point without adding weight, where strength is needed to foil breaks.
I've been thinking about this too lately.
I really don't want to add more weight as I'm already at around 12.5grn/#.
Thought about using some carbon fiber tube or a solid carbon fiber rod.
You can get a 1/8" tube 24" long for $3.75.
Also a solid carbon fiber rod 24" long for $4.50.
TTT
THANKS FOR THE REMINDER!!
Still wanted to try this.
Forgot about it...lol
Great info guys. I like the oil soak option. How does it change spine characteristics if at all? Can you seal or clear coat after?
Soaking in watco doesn't change the spine. I usually soak mine for a week or more, which pretty much permeates the entire arrow. I don't put any other finish on these. Have in the past. It flakes off pretty easily. Just doesn't adhere well to the oil based product underneath.
I agree with Woodchucker. If all you're after is a heavier arrow, not HFOC, go to a hardwood or laminated birch shaft. Ramin wood also makes a very durable, heavy shaft. With 160gr points, my 29 1/2" Superceders (barrell tapered poplar)weight between 650 and 700 gr.
Just talking arrows WITHOUT broadheads here.
When I used to make wood arrows and wanted more arrow weight, I would occasionally dip the finished arrow (no fletch ofcoarse) in poly a second or third time. I have dipped them 4 times if I needed to.
You would be quite surprised how heavy you can get a wood shaft this way........Philip
It isn't hard to just add weight. The challenge seems to be in moving the weight forward and still having enough spine in the shaft to shoot well. How does footing cedar or Fir to a hardwood like osage, hickoory or purplr heart impact the spine stiffness? Is there a formula on a "per inch" basis? And are the footings "wings" a part of the equation?
HOw much weight are you gaining in the fir/surewoods over cedar ? Grains per inch ? Are there any charts or at least a good estimate?
One shaft I have not had the fortune of working with .
thanx
QuoteOriginally posted by deaddoc4444:
HOw much weight are you gaining in the fir/surewoods over cedar ? Grains per inch ? Are there any charts or at least a good estimate?
One shaft I have not had the fortune of working with .
thanx
I have some 11/32" 65-70's that weigh 480 grains for a 32" raw shaft..
I have a wood density chart at my disposal. The difference in fir (13.27 gpi) over cedar (12.03 gpi)is ~1.25 grains per inch with fir being the heavier of the two.
Hardly noticeable and certainly to close together to be able to say that value would stay consistant. It would appear that fir may just be a good substitue for cedar.
that's on a 23/64 shaft....
that's on a 23/64 shaft....
QuoteOriginally posted by Fletcher:
Andy, I've been using 1/8" lead wire. It weighs 35 gr/in. A 2" hole is pretty easy to drill and 3" is about my practical limit. I use a different method to drill the hole, but the result is the same. If you want to try some, let me know.
Hey Flethcer, where do you get that 1/8th lead wire? Been trying to come up with some but have not found it anywhere.
Thanks Orion. After soaking, do you have problems w/nocks & points coming unglued? What's the fix?
Monterey,
How about solder? Should be able to get it at most any hardware store or electronics supply store. I use solder, don't use resin core!!- (or lead shot from when I reloaded) to weight my Judo points to 160 gr.
1/8" Welding rod works for me.. available in several materials of various weights..
Or more correctly brazing rod without flux :D
selfbow and javi, Those both seem like good solutions. The solder thing is so simple, yet it never came to mind till you brought it up!