I shot a doe Thursday evening, shot was a bit far back so I left her until the next morning, I found her 100 yards from where I shot her (shot was better than I thought) dang coyotes ate both hams and chewed out the shoulder. Seems like the yotes are worse than normal here. Anyone else have this problem? I hate to push a deer if you make a questionable hit, but what can you do?
Hmmmm, guess ya know what to hunt in the off season for sure.
Wait until you get wolves ...
For sure! That doe was going to feed my crew through the summer. It really fries my butt! The DNR released them hear a few years ago. I think that was a BIG mistake. They multiply like crazy.
The only good coyotes are the ones hanging on the fence.
QuoteOriginally posted by slayer1:
For sure! That doe was going to feed my crew through the summer. It really fries my butt! The DNR released them hear a few years ago. I think that was a BIG mistake. They multiply like crazy.
They
RELEASED coyotes?
INTENTIONALLY? :archer2:
Yep they did. Dumbest move in the history of NC DNR!
ok WHY IN THE WORLD would they do that????????
Never heard of the feds releasing 'yotes. How sure are you of this and where did you get that info?
Coyotes have been spreading east for decades. That's how they got in KY.
Coyotes are lousy thick around here where I live. There ain't no way you could leave a deer overnight or it would be nothing but bare bones by morning. Sorry for your loss, I know it has to be disheartening. You've only got one choice now.......Revenge!
I just cannot imagine why any state would want to re-introduce coyotes? They will find their way down there on their own easy enough without any help.
Get out the calls and the rifle/shotgun and start your own little war on the vermin!
That's what I do during the off season and I can't even make a dent in the population. Besides the fact that they are getting ready to breed anytime and by spring there will be lots of pups. More mouths to feed means more destroyed turkey nests, more baby rabbits nests destroyed, and more fawns gobbled up as soon as they hit the ground.
NC should have their butts kicked!
The only trick I know of on a bad hit deer where there are yotes it to use them to your favor. I learned this the hard way. My first year in KS, my PL who never hunted in his life hits a big KS white tail in the wrong end. Start trailing it that after noon. I trail until dark and it is on agian off again trail. At dark I pull out not wanting to bump it in the dark if it is still able to move. As we reach the truck I hear yotes all excited and almost made me go to them, but I decided we had enough and we left and came back the next afternoon I found the deer about 4hrs later not 150yrd where we stopped, and we were with 100yrs or less of where it bedded. The yotes jumped it forms it bed, and ran it about 100yrd and eat form the ribs back. This was the biggest deer I have ever put my hands on. I should have went with my instict and followed the sound of yotes. we would have found that deer that night. Lesson learned.
Having hunted coyotes for many years I've read countless forums where so and so said his uncles brother in law's best friend's cousin's dad said the state DNR released those dang beasts for various reasons. Unless someone produces a bonified document from the state that specifically states this as true then take all the rumors with hefty grain of salt.
Coyotes have been expanding their range for quite a few decades and now every state east of the Mississippi have them due to the migration.
Think about it a minute; BRIDGES over large rivers are an easy path to follow where there wasn't access before the 20th century. They are the most adaptable critter out there. And, yes, they do like the taste of venison, too.
Live in Carteret county for 33 yrs, never have seen a yote up to this yr. Still not too terribly thick in my County ut up in Jones! they are everywhere.
J
Coyotes are cool. They'll be here long after we are gone. Total surviors. As far as them getting your deer, if you want to be a part of nature you have to deal with the out come when nature takes is course.
Before you throw out the anti hunter statements, I have shot truck loads of coyotes, I just respect them for what they are.
Yeah, hates a little strong a word for me, but they can be quite aggravatin' at times!....Phil
Hate em with a passion. Best one is a dead one. Next time leave some sox or a t-shirt out at last blood.
Hate isn't a strong enough word, IMO! Well, I actually only hate the ones that haven't gotten dead yet.
I hate ticks. And until a coyote steals one of my kids I'll keep thinking they're cool. I love'm so much I can't wait til I get one with my longbow....Phil
I don't know if I love em or hate. Are they good with Ketchup? :bigsmyl:
QuoteOriginally posted by ChristopherO:
Having hunted coyotes for many years I've read countless forums where so and so said his uncles brother in law's best friend's cousin's dad said the state DNR released those dang beasts for various reasons. Unless someone produces a bonified document from the state that specifically states this as true then take all the rumors with hefty grain of salt.
Coyotes have been expanding their range for quite a few decades and now every state east of the Mississippi have them due to the migration.
Think about it a minute; BRIDGES over large rivers are an easy path to follow where there wasn't access before the 20th century. They are the most adaptable critter out there. And, yes, they do like the taste of venison, too.
I've heard the same claims of introduction numerous times. I've never heard or seen a single verification of even one of those claims.
Coyotes are in fact, an invasive species in most areas that they now thrive.
I have to respect their ability to adapt and change as fast as the weather...but at the same time I can easily describe the emotion I get when I see the damage they cause as hate.
In 1978, when I first began bowhunting in Michigan, talk of coyotes was a big fat ZERO. There weren`t any around. In 1983, when I saw my first coyote, it was common to hear them howl. Now, they live in every county in Michigan, and there is a loaded rifle at my back door for when they refuse to respect the boundry of my back yard.
I personally have not lost a deer to `yotes, but I have many friends who have. To accept losing a deer from a two hour wait is something I cannot do. I have personally seen coyotes reduce a 100+ pound whitetail doe to bones in LESS than two hours from the time of the hit to "recovery".
Good coyotes all have one thing in common.
Too bad about your deer Slayer1.
I have heard the DNR rumor also. I think they have been spreading this way for years. When I was young, it was a rare occurance to see a deer track in our County. Now, it hard to drive to work without almost hitting one. One rumor that I think is pretty credible is that fox hunters released them. Fox hunting with dogs used to be popular in the mountains. I heard it is hard to tell fox pups from coyote pups. Maybe it is just another rumor.
Yes a person should hate coyotes for doing hat they do naturally. I mean if they do not eat your deer they can just go on down to the coyote super market and get dinner there, oh wait.....
QuoteOriginally posted by John Scifres:
No offense bud but I think you might be ignoring the obvious. Make a better shot next time. Or learn to track better. Yotes are just doing what they do. Hate is a very strong emotion. If you're counting on deer to feed your crew, you might take up the more efficient firearm. Shoot them in the shoulder.
".....Make a better shot next time. Or learn to track better......".
Dang, John, kinda harsh there don't ya think? I guess you've never made a marginal shot on game or had trouble recovering an animal before? If so, I would say you are one of the few.
I don't like 'em much myself. There good at doing what they do. Too good, maybe. I'll shoot every one I see.
Coyotes are the coolest game to chase. I have seen what they do to sheep and other live stock. But I do not hate them . They are super survivalist. And that they should be controled . I going with others here you made a bad shot and you lost your deer the coyotes just found it. Thats part of hunting. People like to blame something other than them selfs to much. Im sure you did your best at tracking the deer and that should be good enough. If you need meat that bad go buy it. Hunting is hunting and some times you loose.
They are alot of fun to hunt & trap if that's an option for ya...you can't totally get rid of them but that doesn't mean you can't keep the population down some...your actually better off having a few around so a "bunch" doesn't move in...
Ok, I'll admit I don't want ALL of them dead...I love their singing. Maybe I should rank on the gray wolves they released in NM several years back...
QuoteOriginally posted by slayer1:
For sure! That doe was going to feed my crew through the summer. It really fries my butt! The DNR released them hear a few years ago. I think that was a BIG mistake. They multiply like crazy.
The DNR released coyotes? What a bunch of morons. It's not exactly like they need help spreading.
QuoteOriginally posted by Elksong:
Coyotes are cool. They'll be here long after we are gone. Total surviors. As far as them getting your deer, if you want to be a part of nature you have to deal with the out come when nature takes is course.
Before you throw out the anti hunter statements, I have shot truck loads of coyotes, I just respect them for what they are.
I agree with elksong here..
The Coyote was created like that, and cannot change their ways like us humans.
They do not deserve less respect or ethical treatment than any other animal in my opinion, even though their numbers may need controlling.
Sorry you lost your deer though :)
QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
QuoteOriginally posted by John Scifres:
No offense bud but I think you might be ignoring the obvious. Make a better shot next time. Or learn to track better. Yotes are just doing what they do. Hate is a very strong emotion. If you're counting on deer to feed your crew, you might take up the more efficient firearm. Shoot them in the shoulder.
".....Make a better shot next time. Or learn to track better......".
Dang, John, kinda harsh there don't ya think? I guess you've never made a marginal shot on game or had trouble recovering an animal before? If so, I would say you are one of the few. [/b]
I thought that was a bit too much myself. Just because your thinking it, doesn't mean you have to rub salt in an already open wound Jon.
The man just lost a deer and for the rare few out there that have never had it happen to them......this comment has nothing to do with you.
If you bowhunt long enough it's going to happen sooner or later, then you too can join the ranks of other bowhunters who have been humbled by a bad shot. It's not a good place to be and I'm sure he feels super bad about it.
That may also lead to some of the hate he feels about the coyotes getting a deer that he could have otherwise recovered in the morning.
Chances are that if it was cold enough that night the meat would have been fine.
Don't pretend for a second that there's not plenty of guys out there that wouldn't have done the same and left the deer overnight rather than jump it out of it's death bed.
With all that said, I don't hate coyotes for being the hard core survivors that they are. They could adapt and do adapt to any environment on the planet, I can't help but admire that.
On the other hand, I love to eat rabbits, deer, and turkey so the fewer coyotes there are......more wild game for my freezer.
I stopped killing rabbits on my place for over 4 years because the coyotes nearly wiped them out, so I started killing the coyotes. Now I have rabbits again and still have coyotes, just a few less than before.
I really enjoy hunting them too, I won't pretend that I don't......I just don't want as many as I have around here at the moment. I would be a bit disappointed if there weren't any at all because they do serve as nature's clean up crew and they are highly efficient at it.
I completely agree that we shouldn't hate an animal for doing what it was put here by the Creator to do, that's their purpose.
Although they must be controlled like everything else or eventually you'll find yourself eating tag soup more often than you can stomach.
Just for the record fox kits and coyote pups don't look alike. Coyote pups look like this:
(http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt167/WoodenBows/CoyotePups.jpg)
I was brought these last year from someone who knows I am a predator hunter. I couldn't keep them, though, as the rules of my nuscense trapping permit won't allow keeping coyotes in captivity. They had to be euthanized. The state does not want these wild dogs to be transplanted anywhere. They sure looked just like the domestic dog pups we've raised, though, but they were coyote pups.
This is the last coyote I had a close encounter with. At times the pack needs to be put on their better behavior.
(http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt167/WoodenBows/Snowy%20Day%20Coyote%202010/SheDevilAtEndofTrail.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by The Night Stalker:
I have heard the DNR rumor also. I think they have been spreading this way for years. When I was young, it was a rare occurance to see a deer track in our County. Now, it hard to drive to work without almost hitting one. One rumor that I think is pretty credible is that fox hunters released them. Fox hunting with dogs used to be popular in the mountains. I heard it is hard to tell fox pups from coyote pups. Maybe it is just another rumor.
I guess its just a rumor. I heard it at a NCBA meeting a few years ago. As far as the comments on my shooting ability/tracking ability I really take offense to that. I have been hunting with trad gear a long time and have always felt it was better to give an animal time rather than push it., just seems the yotes don't allow that anymore.
PS - if anyone wants to shoot for $ I am game anytime. Just send me a PM!
Lost the back end of a doe I shot this yr. as well. I don't hate them, but I definitely will drill one if given the oppurtunity. I also have no problem letting a deer go overnight if the weather permits and I think its necessary. If the yotes find em first, that's just part of rolling the dice.
Sorry for your loss, Slayer!
Predator competition!!
I've never lost a deer to coyotes but in the last few years the numbers around here have increased. On a walk down our driveway the other morning we noticed this scene in the fresh snow. Looked like a doe was taken down by coyotes. The scene was in a relatively small area without much hair and blood scattered all around like you would think. I took these first pics with our dig camera then I put a trail cam on the kill. The disassembly process and the culprits involved is quite interesting.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasDaysnow2010048.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasDaysnow2010047.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasDaysnow2010046.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/ChristmasDaysnow2010045.jpg)
I lost a doe this year also, my first deer lost to yotes in 25 plus years bow hunting. Shot her at sunset waited bout 20 munites to get down and found out the batteries were dead on my flashlight spent 1 hour going to town for new batteries and found the deer less than 2 hours after the shot and their was NOTHING left of her.
It was a perftic double lung shot and she was only 80 yards from my stand when I found her.
doug77
Slayer, I lost a deer last year to coyotes. I shot her late and their was snow on the ground so I figured I would just come back in the morning at daybreak. They found the deer and ate the hams. I salvaged what I could then took the carcass as bait. I got the guilty party or their relatives. What county in NC do you live in.
my observation is as deer populations exploded throughout the nation their predators population just followed I dont think anyone officially stocked them
without coyotes wolves and lions deer would be slow fat and stupid predators are what keeps things wild
in nw pa we are starting or having a prob. with them.have herd about peaple killing them with ear tags but never saw it myself.the dog hunters around here kill a hugh number per year but they seam to be growing in numbers.the more you kill the more they breed.lost an 8 point to them this year myself.
QuoteOriginally posted by The Night Stalker:
Slayer, I lost a deer last year to coyotes. I shot her late and their was snow on the ground so I figured I would just come back in the morning at daybreak. They found the deer and ate the hams. I salvaged what I could then took the carcass as bait. I got the guilty party or their relatives. What county in NC do you live in.
I am in Alamance county, but I hunt in Guilford, Orange and Alamance. I have seen more Yote evidence this year than I ever have before?
My older brother had a predator of "different sorts" a couple of years ago on a bowshot doe. He also shot it right at dark and wasn't sure about the hit so he marked the spot and left it till morning. When he returned the next morning he tracked the doe less than 100 yards from the spot where he shot it, but the deer had been dragged a little ways and covered up entirely by leaves. Nothing was really eaten off of it just some chew marks and bite marks, but he said you couldn't see any part of the deer exposed and it just looked like a big mound of leaves piled up.
Cats are the only animals I know of that cover their food with leaves, coyotes on the other hand in my experience will only try to bury pieces of it to save for later.
So we were sure it was a cat, but we just don't know how big? He said it was about an 80lb. doe so I assume it would take a fair sized cat to drag it any distance away from where it died.
Looking back on it, we should have put a trail cam on the carcass and left it there to capture whatever came back to recover it's meal.
I have lost part of deer to coyotes on a couple occasions. There not really hunted around here and thick in most areas. I do spend the late winter seasons trapping and snaring them to help keep them from getting crazy over populated. It seems much more effective then hunting them.
They have my respect.
Survivors just like us( more so I would think) and we probably piss them off too.
Haven't even had a shot at one yet over here.
Funny thing is, they cant do anything about us getting crazy populated.They gotta do what they can to live as we keep spreading into the woods.
At least we get a chance to hunt and trap them.
Advantage: us. yet they still beat us all the time.
I think they are a very important part of the big equation for us like it or not.
I was in Nova Scotia last October (09) when the young female folk singer was killed by coyotes. I've run to a bleating button buck to chase the coyote of this live deer's hindquarters -it died less than a minute later. I used to let yotes go when I saw them. Now, if I have opportunity, they die. I've killed two in 12 months in my backyard -- they are extremely allergic to 270WSM.
Lots of folks think their DNRs "stocked" coyotes. While I certainly don't know the facts for every state, I can tell you this is an urban legend in most, if not all situations. Like others wrote above, the Coyote is an extremely adaptable creature and has been expanding its range for a long time. They've had some help with this from houndsmen who have bought live ones from trappers in one locatin and released them inside enclosures to run/train their dogs. This is illegal in many states. Of course captive animals don't always remain captive.
I do know the USFWS stocked some red wolves which could easily be mistaken for coyotes in a couple places 15+ years ago but in most cases these releases failed -- due to cross-breeding with coyotes! They wanted to do this in KY but we said no.
Problem with coyotes is that there is no real predator to keep them in check. Numbers of those who trap coyotes or hunt them is not enough to keep numbers down. The natural enemy of coyotes is wolves and most areas have none of those and those that do have wolves feel the same way about them as we do about coyotes. The only other natural control is Mother nature herself (hard winters, mange, etc). Coyotes are extremely adaptable so my guess is that coyotes are here to stay - hunt them when possible but enjoy the outdoors as much as always knowing they are just part of the outdoors!!
Cheers,
Joe
I also trapped them for years, but now it's much more fun to call them in. I may have to go back to trapping them though? They seem to be repopulating quicker than I can keep up with them.
"It's not meat until it's in the freezer." E. Don Thomas.
My best friend lost a deer to coyots. another friend lost a bull elk to bears, his elk was laying 1/2 mile form were mine was down. I lucked out that night...
Last season my neighbor arrowed a doe and it dropped within sight. Within a few minutes a coyote was already on it. He arrowed the coyote as well!
I helped him track the coyote to it's den, but neither of us was about to stick our hand down there to drag it out. LOL
So around here you don't have much time to find your deer.
Last season my neighbor arrowed a doe and it dropped within sight. Within a few minutes a coyote was already on it. He arrowed the coyote as well!
I helped him track the coyote to it's den, but neither of us was about to stick our hand down there to drag it out. LOL
So around here you don't have much time to find your deer.
My bother-in-law shot one a couple years ago,and hit a little far back, had to leave her overnight. Came back the next morning..about half the back end was eat off of her. No one makes perfect shots all the time. Those things happen, and its dang aggervating. Sorry for the loss! Jason
Here is all I have to say, if they are a nuisance. Maybe it's time to not hunt so much deer and time to hunt some coyote. They aren't just going to go away. People used to hunt coyotes all the time what happened to that.
They are hard to hunt! I'm trying!
I don't hate much, it's a strong word for an animal that's just trying to eat. It's not the coyotes fault you didn't find your deer.
I've lost a deer to coyotes too. The fellow who said you should shoot better or improve your tracking skills cut right to the chase. It's true and it doesn't hurt my feelings nor should it hurt yours. If I wouldn't have shot too far back I'd have recovered the deer before the coyotes did-no big news there.
Incidentally I like coyoets, they sound nice at night and are great fun to hunt. I say hunt them hard as there are a lot of the buggers and it helps to keep them thinned down. I'd mourn the evening where I couldn't spend some time outside without hearing the "little song dogs."
It seems like a lot of the young deer here are eaten by them before they get a chance in life.
Get a gun for yoters not a bow, maybe more fun with a bow but alot less likely, just pop em at 200 yards and leave em or skin em.
Put a trail camera on some scraps or road kill for a couple of days. You'd be surprised what contributes to the disappearance of a deer carcass. Amazing what a flock of crows, helped out by a hawk and a fox can do.
Killed the first one I ever saw in Georgia back in '84.
It is what is is guys. That coyote needs to eat too.
Like was said earlier, either shoot better, or track better cause if you leave a deer overnight, it just might get eaten. That's the chance you take. In some areas, you don't even have to leave it overnight, just an hour or so.
It isn't good or bad, evil or otherwise. It is just one of the things we have to deal with.
If you are worried and feel that you need to leave the deer alone for a few hours (sometimes a very wise choice), sit in the woods and wait.
You can hear the coyotes getting to your deer and go get em before they can do too much damage. Same works the next morning using the normal crows and other carrion eater birds to lead you to your deer.
Paraphrasing the E Don quote above, it ain't your's till it's in your hand.
ChuckC
"just pop em at 200 yards and leave em."
That's honorable.
We need more people like that in the woods.....
:eek:
And what do you plan on doing with a spring coyote? They are over populated and are destroying small game populations and if you leave them that means other animals get to eat? So what exactly is wrong with what I said. Do you know what a carrying capacity is? It is the amount of animals that can live in an area based on food and predators and if you have a ton of coyotes eating all the small game, not only are you going to not have much if any small game to hunt or enjoy seeing out in nature, then you are destroying an eco system, and if they kill everything around they are just going to starve. So what is your plan of action for over population? we have huge packs that kill dogs in peoples back yards, I don't live in colorado where they are in more rural areas, they are coming into citys. How many yotes have you had at 20 yards? A gun is the way to go if you are wanting to do proper population control, I only use a gun a couple time a year and deer isn't one of them, but if you want to lower population numbers, just look at how many are killed in gun season compared to bow.
It's been proven that Coyotes control their own populations. If an are will sustain a certain amoount of dogs they will throw pups in accordance with what the habitat will support. So shooting coyotes really doesn't have a long lasting effect on the population of the species in that area. That's is why the have never been erraticated, like wolves and Grizzly.
So shooting a spring coyotes is just fun for you and does no real impact to the population. hunters should really know more about the animals they hunt.
The gestation period for coyote pups is nine weeks during which time the female needs high energy food to ensure proper development (Bekoff & Wells 1980). Population density of coyotes directly affects the litter size of the breeding female. If population density is high then litter size will be small whereas if population density is low than litter size will be larger (Knowlton 1972). The correlation between population density and litter size may be related to resource availability. If population density is high, resource availability may be low which means the female will get less energy and nutrients she needs to allow for successful development of a larger litter of pups. On the other hand, if popular density is low, resource availability will be higher due to less predation and the female will get enough energy and nutrients to bring a larger littler size to term.
Also there is always something that can/and should be used form any animal that you take.
I understand that a population of coyotes can support it's self by controling it's breeding size but they have also proven that they have a huge effect on small game populations, rabbits in ohio used to be aplenty now you can barely find them any where and our coyote population has sky rocketed, also the reason that thier is no limit on coyotes and no closed season on them in ohio. When they get hungry enought they come for dogs and children if hungry enough and you can find those cases on the internet along with an adult female being killed in canada by coyotes. And for a personal reference my friends have been out hunting coons at night and had a pack of coyotes following them back, as well as dogs attacked. So you hunt as you will and I'll hunt as I will. Coyotes also have no predators in ohio except for humans.
Yeah i said use it's hide but I'm not everyone, thats their dicission not mine "I" use as much as "I" can from every animal I kill. thats why I said that and you cut my quote short. I have a quiver made from a spring coyote.
Well spoken Elksong!Coyote,(aka:the Trickster")has always been there and always will be.I can relate to the author of this thread and yes here in Oregon yote #s are through the roof and if possible you better not try and leave a kill out over night.Myself and others here have been burned by them in that regaurd.I have also seen them in a couple of areas were ,because of the brush and no pressure on them that they have become almost brazen in their hunting/oppertunism.None the less,they are an important part in the ecosystem and have as much right to make a living than we humans I think.If you kill one ,tan it or get it tanned.Makes a great hat.I am making a vest out of 5 of them right now.Its going to be warm!And after all of the human race imploades,the trickster will still be lurking.However,in Yellowstone now the wolves have put the hurt on them big time.
I want to add that predator controll is the responsibility of we hunters as well.If we want good populations of others that is.Im just for the use of the hides as much as possible.It gives the antihunting people good ammunition when people just leave coyote carcasses laying around in places were they may recreate as well.I shot over one the other day at 25 yards and the bugger took a very quick smell of my arrow and bolted.Uggh!
I personally am totally for using every part of an animal, coyote skulls are a very attractive addition to a camp site or man cave, I have great respect for all animals but I can't control what others choose to do with them, also at $80 a hide I can't afford to get everthing I shoot tanned. I have a opossum hide from 3 years ago in my freezer waiting to be pilled out and salted and hopefully brain tanned.
Good jobcelticknot,now were talking.A coyote jaw bone obsidian knife is big medicine.I want to share to you an excellant hide tanning place,called "Furs 4 Fun"in Ruppert,Idaho.Check them out on line,you will be impressed.His prices and quality are excellant.I have had him do many hair on hides and have seen tons that others have had done and they are excellant.Granted,they are small so you arent going to get you stuff like pronto,but his quality and intgrety are exceptional,price too.He doesnt make leather though.Just a fyi for you all.And I agree that to each his own on the subject.All we can do is try.
Good info Chanumpa. I just think that Coyote gets a bad rap. He is a beautiful intelligent animal that deserves more respect the just random killing. Foxes, coons, Bobcats, skunks, weasels, hawks, eagle, owls and not to mention feral cats and dogs do plenty of killing, but most of the pop. issues get blamed on Coyote. I agree in hunting and trapping them. I just could never hate them.
As far as rabbits go I would say that it has always been up and down for the populations, they natuarully cycle high and low, with or with out coyotes.
QuoteOriginally posted by adkmountainken:
ok WHY IN THE WORLD would they do that????????
For those of you who think your state wouldn't introduce or relocate Coyotes in your state....your being very naive.I personally saw a coyote in a holding pen ( not a trap ) on a piece of NYS land in Delaware county.The coyote had a NYS DEC tag on its ear.I think the DEC was letting it get accustom to its surrounding because after I was done bird hunting (2hrs) I went back to look at it and it and the holding pen was gone.That was almost 20 years ago and look at the population NY has now Best Bob
If you can believe this: I live in Northeasten Ohio and I just read that the county we live in funded a project to track the whereabouts and travel habits of Coyote's. In so doing tha trapped at least 15 Yotes and attached GPS collars that send text messages of locations to the biologists. The collars cost $4,000 each and they have 15 yotes in the program. Cost just for the collars $60,000. They are trapping more, doing studies and releasing them "back into the wild"...how nice. The concencus in the article was that Coyotes have a wide and unpredictable range that has little pattern to it. That facibnates them so that they love this tracking program. In a day of tax and spend madness we are being robbed blind by our officials. Check it out in your area. I'm amazed.
Oh...in the article the also said that the DNR has been using airplanes to drop antibiotics for racoons that prevent rabies. Again...man hours, airplane fuel and maintenance, antibiotics and monitoring. Crazy!
Its very simple to me .....if you want to have good game populations on your hunting grounds,then shoot coyotes every time you get a chance.....the need to be managed....your never gonna kill them all and you shouldn't anyway........if you don't want to shoot them let us know how your game populations have changed over the next few years.
Best
Bob
I had 2 deer chewed on this season within 30 minutes of shooting them. I shoot everyone I see.
I shoot the ones (and leave them)I see just to keep them wild and wary. Its been proven that hunting and even trapping does nothing to control the population - food and habitat do. And I'll never be foolish enough to believe the NY DEC or any state agency has ever released any. I'd love to see proof posted to show me wrong.
I can only say I have heard rumors, and I am saying the word rumors, that Michigan was looking into them as a means of cleaning up all the roadkill problems we have. Now that was years ago, but I'm just saying I could see politicians looking at it that way. Our DNR used to have some separation from the politicians, but now they are controlled by politicians, so who knows what brainstorms could come up.
Dan
Invite some trappers to Trap them..Welcome to the food chain..
QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB:
I shoot the ones (and leave them)I see just to keep them wild and wary. Its been proven that hunting and even trapping does nothing to control the population - food and habitat do. And I'll never be foolish enough to believe the NY DEC or any state agency has ever released any. I'd love to see proof posted to show me wrong.
Well I can only tell you what I saw Steve....I wish I had a cell phone back then.Why would the coyote have an ear tag if it wasnt relocated or introduced ? Why was it in a holding pen?
And a state would introduce them for the same reason they give out way too many DMP's......cause the insurance companies put pressure on them .
Best
Bob
I wish I could trap again, problem is I'm afraid I would catch the neighbors dog. I live in a rural area, but the neighbors dog from 1/2 mile away covers the area pretty good.
Same problem with the beagles that run my hunting woods (about 5 miles down the road ) I don't know who they belong to, but I see them time to time when I'm hunting, they don't seem to be chasing deer.
I guess I don't have a coyote problem, or all the family pets wouldn't be running the woods.
Dan
i don't see a need to hate yotes, i do see a need to manage them because we are the superior species (right?). they're just predators like us, but if they were to interfere with my way of life, i'd kill 'em.
i didn't read all the posts in this thread, but did someone explain why yotes were introduced into that area, perhaps to control the deer population? can't figure that one out!
Am I allowed to renounce my hatred for them...and still kill every one of them I can? There seems to be some disagreement, Rob, whether they were introduced, or just expanded into the area.
You guys can love em, respect em or do what ever you want to with Coyotes. No I don't hate them ,just severely dislike them.
I kill em on site with what ever is available. Rifle ,shotgun, bow and vehicle . There is no ethics for coyote hunting IMO.
They tried once to kill my Jack Russell Terrier bite him through the back ham and tallywacker .
Second time he wasn't so lucky , try telling your family that the family pet was killed by a respectful wily nice coyote . We also lost the only house cat I ever liked to coyotes.
They are thick around here and will stay that way . The woods are too thick to call them in they just circle downwind and you never see them.
You can snare or trap them but more just move in . At the end of time 2 things will exist cockroaches and coyotes .
Soooo debate away , I'll keep the shells and the .223 within reach here at the house at all times .
Good Huntin'
Jack
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
i don't see a need to hate yotes, i do see a need to manage them because we are the superior species (right?). they're just predators like us, but if they were to interfere with my way of life, i'd kill 'em.
i didn't read all the posts in this thread, but did someone explain why yotes were introduced into that area, perhaps to control the deer population? can't figure that one out!
Rob
I dont know if they were introduced or just relocated to my hunting area.All I know is what I saw(page 5).
Best
Bob
Sorry about the loss of your dog Jack. On two occaisions, I have almost lost a dog to coyotes.(inside my fenced in backyard)
Personally I believe that any info gathered about coyotes from the eighties is useless info today. Coyotes are not the same animal that they once were. I have seen a drastic change in my area in a very short time frame.
I also believe that since coyotes are obviously thriving everywhere they live, ANY state agency that spends even ONE penny of taxpayers money to study coyotes needs to be held accountable to the very people who pay the bills. There is no money for necessities, let alone studying the habits of the coyote.
Indeed, the availabilty of food and disease are the only REAL population control for coyotes.
God bless the trappers and dog hunters.
I have killed my share by accidental encounters and I have killed a what I beleive to be my share that I have called in. It took me seven years of trying to finally call one in. I have learned alot, but the coyote learns much faster.
I read every post, and thought about it alot, and I am pretty sure I HATE them.(honesty is the best policy...right?) They are a real threat to game populations, and non-game species as well.
I killed the big male that almost caught my daughters weiner dog, and I would hate them even more if he had. He was NOT doing what coyotes do, because if he was "doing what coyotes do" he would be afraid to show himself in daylight, and he certainly wouldn`t be in my BACKYARD trying to catch and eat my daughters dog. Coyotes are SUPPOSED to be skinny, secretive, mostly NOCTURNAL, rodent eating, mange carrying varmints. What they are now is a far cry from that.
I wouldn`t miss their screaming out my bedroom window one little bit...not one little bit.
QuoteOriginally posted by Roughrider:
Wait until you get wolves ...
Those are really ugly!!!! :(
Frank
Coyotes are really getting numerous in my area and are getting to be a nuisance but I believe that some kills are blamed on coyotes when, in fact, it has been dogs. We had a few reported instances of coyotes getting in on wounded deer this past fall but it was found to be the work of a pack of dogs. Coyotes will usually take a deer/fawn down and start eating the organs where dogs will usually go for the hind quarters to take the deer down and then start eating there.
Cheers,
Joe
QuoteOriginally posted by Jack Whitmire Jr:
They tried once to kill my Jack Russell Terrier bite him through the back ham and tallywacker .
Second time he wasn't so lucky , try telling your family that the family pet was killed by a respectful wily nice coyote . We also lost the only house cat I ever liked to coyotes.
The most mangled I've ever seen any dogs, as a veterinarian, has been from coyote attacks. Even when the skin didn't seem too terribly damaged, the underlying muscles and abdominal organs looked as though they'd been through a grinder.
One man saw a female coyote lure his dog out of the yard (he thinks she was in heat). He got about thirty feet outside the fence and a pack of 6 was waiting on him, concealed in the bushes. The dogs testicles were hanging below his knees when he came in, and he died under anesthesia, before I could even try to reassemble him. I don't know how he even lived to make it to the clinic, given the amount of blood loss and internal damage he had.
I need to quit reading this post before im tempted to put my opinion in on them, And it won't be to say how much I love them !
Dan
Up here the coyotes are small, sneaky and usually quiet, if they get too bold the wolves eat em. :bigsmyl: Just nature taking her course. Bob
mountain lions here In Northern Calif.are really hurting are deer herds. And their protected by special legislation. Ticks me off.Sighting are more and more common. We even had one near a school here last Aug. and one (or the same) was seen under a picnic table at the city park. These were confirmed sightings. Feel bad for the folks up north who are seeing their deer and elk herds suffer from re-introduced wolves
we've had coyotes in NY city !!!!!!!
We got a "healthy" population of 'yotes where I live too. I lost the biggest part of a nice doe last year because we had to leave her over night. My brother shot a nice buck and we gave it just an hour and a half to lay up. The end of that blood trail looked like something out of CSI or maybe 1 of those Saw movies. This is a piece of ground where we harvest coyotes off of fairly regular. You just do what you can and accept the fact that we share our hunting ground with other hunters.
P.S. Sorry about your deer.
First of all, I'm not telling anyone whether they should hate them or not. Do whatever you want, its not my business. But heres my story.
I lost a beagle 7 years ago. She made it home, but only lasted a few minutes. Lots of coyotes that year. It doesn't make me hate them.(I did for awhile!) I would have blown every one I saw away at the time but I've come to reason.
Coyotes don't know that they aren't "supposed" to eat certain things. We don't own them, they are here to exist under their own rules, not ours as much as we think we should rule everything. They don't know boundaries set by humans.
I'm not saying don't kill them, I'd hunt coyotes every day till I couldn't pull the string back anymore. Gun, trap, whatever works.
If you think there is a population problem, report it to the state and follow up with them. Its the biologists job to study them and make an educated decision on whether there are too many.
Just because you are mad that they may be hindering your hunting chances is really too bad for you. Thats mother Natures job and she's been handling it well for how long?
ATV's and thieves have been hindering my hunting area but thats too bad for me.
All that aside, take all that the law will allow and enjoy hunting or trapping them.
When they start to put your family,pets,etc. in potential harms way.....you do what you've got to do. Everybody has to make that decision for themselves, even if it goes against the law..
I am a friend of Slayers and shoot and hunt with him. I have seen more coyotes in the last 3 weeks hunting than the last 3-4 years combined.
A friend of mine killed one in NC with a rifle in the early 90's and the wildlife officers took a tooth and did DNA on it they said it came from Oklahoma.
People were speculating that Fox hunters brought them in to run their digs on in their pens. That is what I heard.LCH
PS Slayer is a good hunter and shot.
QuoteOriginally posted by Elksong:
"just pop em at 200 yards and leave em."
That's honorable.
We need more people like that in the woods.....
:eek:
Take it easy. You don't need to start with the personal attacks.
O.K. GK cause you are the asigned peacekeeper and all. There is way more earwax than brains displayed here sometimes.
QuoteOriginally posted by Elksong:
O.K. GK cause you are the asigned peacekeeper and all. There is way more earwax than brains displayed here sometimes.
I've read your posts in this thread and they have been articulate and well thought out for the most part. Did your personal attack really add anything?
I must have a different subspecies of coyotes where I live in southeast Ohio. We have had an abundance of coyotes here (right where I reside) for 15 years now. I see coyotes with weekly frequency on my farm. We see them as roadkills, running across fields, hunting mice, in groups of 2 to 7. They are all over the place. Our local deer population (where I reside again) has never looked better. If you used empirical logic, you'd say "I want more coyotes here!" because they are NOT damaging the deer population on my farm.
That said, I fully understand anyone who "hates" a coyote for causing them loss or damage. I'm sure you'd feel the same way if a deer jumped in the path of a car and someone was injured or killed right? "I despise deer, and the only good deer is a dead deer". I'm not mocking anyone by that. But...do you hate black bears today? Black bears have killed more Americans than coyotes ever will. They destroy campsites and damage property. Grizzlies can kill you and your dog, or steal your moose/caribou in an instant. Do you hate them? Pretty interesting to ponder...
Here's a recent visitor to my yard:
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g13/dillbilly/coyote294.jpg)
One spot I hunt here in MI you have to get right on the blood trail or the coyotes will be there waiting for you.
Coyotes have "invaded" (I think colonized a better description) the easten US via two means. Much of the northeast was colonized by a population expansion enabled by the extirpation of wolves that formerly kept coyote populations in check. Coyotes dispersing through southern Canada interbred with wolves along the way and reentered the US in northern New York in the 1940-50s. They were a bigger and beefier but still by and large a coyote.
In the southern US, as referenced by several posters, coyotes received a helping hand from hunters who translocated them into hound hunting enclosures throughout the southeast where they quickly escaped. The story is well told in Gerry Parker's book Eastern Coyote: the story of it's success.
One poster referenced ongoing efforts to control rabies in Ohio. Its interesting to note that raccoon rabies was also spread throughout the east coast states by coon hunters who translocated raccoons for hunting purposes. This is a disease that costs millions if not billions of dollars. Pretty ironic that it's usually the state DNRs that get the blame from hunters when it has in fact been hunters themselves relocating these "problem" animals. So we get a new critter town that we need to understand better so we can effectively manage it and the same hunters then turn around and condemn the DNR for "wasting" tax dollars studying them.
It's worth remembering that these are the same agencies we have to thank for restoring deer, elk, turkey, and other game throughout the US so we have something to hunt. When I see how readily some people buy into the rumors that the "DNR" introduced coyotes, I can't help but wonder who the "idiots" are.
"Its interesting to note that raccoon rabies was also spread throughout the east coast states by coon hunters who translocated raccoons for hunting purposes."
Not to hijack a coyote-hating thread, but I could expound endlessly on the evils of raccoons where I live. These animals were once rather secretive and hard to spot, back in the 70s. They are now so prevalent, it's amazing. I have seen family groups of 7 and 8 trundling around together. Raccoons regularly come right up on all our porches and search for leftover pet food. I've had them peer in the windows at me. I've got video of them emptying out our bird feeders. They can climb a brick or natural-siding exterior wall like it's nothing. I have cage-trapped a huge number of them in 10 years here, and sent them to a better place. They now litter the roads with their carcasses...where it used to be groundhogs. Want to get a shock? Just turn a corner on your sidewalk and have an 18 pound raccoon hustling toward you! They have become a true pestilence out here, and I show them no mercy. An adult raccoon has very few predators to contend with, save man. Same for coyotes. At least the coyotes don't sniff my door sills...
Hey, wait a minute!.....Maybe someone can invent the coyote that prefers 'coon meat!
There is no effective management of coyotes.
If you have snow in your area and you want to get rid of some dogs!! Backtrack the dogs to there den. Throw a ground hog bomb into it step back and waalaa. When the dogs start coming out just blaze them with a auto 380 or 9mm. Then on to the next den!!
wow 8 pages...must be the off season!
Sucks that you lost your deer. I'm not a big fan of coyotes myself only because for the first half of my life we never had to worry about them. The last 20 years they have came on strong in Ontario and in some areas it's out of control. I understand under normal circumstance they take care or their own population, that is if everything is normal. Well here it is not, one they are not native and for one reason we use to have wolves but we killed most of them out of southern ranges in Ontario over 100 years ago. We offer them an almost unending food supplies at dumps and transfer stations. In southern Ontario the population is huge and hardly hunted for various reasons. A lot of farmland is no longer actually farmed and owned by farmers, very hard to get permission to hunt, areas with big populations are bow only which makes it even harder to hunt them, in Ontario you can't leave fur bearing animal to rot, you must make all attempts to retrive any fur bearing animal and remove fur. This is the reason I do not hunt them on purpose, what am I to do with the fur when I remove it? Fur prices here are so low it's not worth while plus where am I to take it? I would never just shoot and leave a native species and just let it rot but in this case I'd be awefully tempted. We use to have a bounty on them with a place to actually take them but the city folk who fought for the rights of the coyote put a stop to that, funny how know I read the same epople complaining about pets being killed by same aniamls and wondering what can be done to remove them from city ares, not kill them just you know discourage them from living near me...lol They even tried poison bait ini some areas, coyotes to smart for that but sure killed a lot of fox, raccons and skunks, way to go, I can't kill and leave a coyote to rot but it's ok to drop poison bait from a plane. sorry for rant, over.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kevin Dill:
Maybe someone can invent the coyote that prefers 'coon meat!
Good call! I think you might just win the thread. :D
back when i was around twenty three i worked on a big ranch up the nehalem river north of tillamook oregon.every morning at 4am i had to herd the stupid cows up to the barn for the farmer to milk.i kept hearing things moving around in the grass close to me every morning.i started carrying a hi-beam flashlight and the very first morning i carried it i waited until i heard the grass rustling then turned it on.i was stunned by what i saw,there must have been a dozen coyotes around me in a half circle working in on me.they saw the light and stopped.sure put an extra zip in my step.next day i was packin my 12ga pump.should've seen'em scatter when i started unloading on'em. :readit: :goldtooth:
Aldo Leopod -"In those days we had never heard of passing up a chance to kill a wolf. In a second we were pumping lead into the pack, but with more excitement than accuracy; how to aim a steep downhill shot is always confusing. When our rifles were empty, the old wolf was down, and a pup was dragging a leg into impassable side-rocks.
We reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire dying in her eyes. I realized then, and have known ever since, that there was something new to me in those eyes—something known only to her and to the mountain. I was young then, and full of trigger-itch; I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters' paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view."
Fred Bear-I have always tempered my killing with respect for the game pursued. I see the animal not only as a target but as a living creature with more freedom than I will ever have. I take that life if I can, with regret as well as joy, and with the sure knowledge that nature's ways of fang and claw or exposure and starvation are a far crueler fate than I bestow.
And one just for Wapitimike.
Edward Abbey -The purpose of love, sex, and marriage is the production and raising of children. But look about you: Most people have no business having children. They are unqualified, either genetically or culturally or both, to reproduce such sorry specimens as themselves. Of all our privileges, the license to breed is the one most grossly abused.
Elksong...
Pretty good stuff, right there! Thank you!
Right on Elksong. Bunch said with out knowing.
Well deer season just went out so I think I will try to kill a coyote or coon. Huh maybe they are good for something after all.LCH
I have trapped quite a few yotes an they are survivors, truly an amazing animal. I have also visited many furbuyers an not a single one has ever had a single tagged coyote come in. Quite a few tagged coon come in with a rabies marker in there ear.This way they are not blood tested over an over for rabies. Nobody likes a coyote, I go to a farm an ask to deer hunt an its tuff to get permission. I have never been denied permission to trap coyotes, some of these grain farms are full of mice an rats yet they let me trap the best mousers of all, fox an coyotes, I have had three prime red fox killed by yotes that were in my traps, most just bit thru the back an crushed there spine,only one was tore up. Do I hate coyotes, no but I sure do respect them for all there survival skills. they seem to be doing well for the amount of people trying to kill them. Just my .02 worth.
QuoteOriginally posted by SEMO_HUNTER:
My older brother had a predator of "different sorts" a couple of years ago on a bowshot doe. He also shot it right at dark and wasn't sure about the hit so he marked the spot and left it till morning. When he returned the next morning he tracked the doe less than 100 yards from the spot where he shot it, but the deer had been dragged a little ways and covered up entirely by leaves. Nothing was really eaten off of it just some chew marks and bite marks, but he said you couldn't see any part of the deer exposed and it just looked like a big mound of leaves piled up.
Cats are the only animals I know of that cover their food with leaves, coyotes on the other hand in my experience will only try to bury pieces of it to save for later.
So we were sure it was a cat, but we just don't know how big? He said it was about an 80lb. doe so I assume it would take a fair sized cat to drag it any distance away from where it died.
Looking back on it, we should have put a trail cam on the carcass and left it there to capture whatever came back to recover it's meal.
SEMO - I have had Black bears cover my deer with leaves and debris. Cats do as well but bears will also. Just a thought. Any bears known in your area?
Jason
Nevermind LOL
:knothead: