Here's my setup.
The white lines are the most obvious trails, the red lines are the outlines of huge areas of honeysuckle the deer are using as bedding areas.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/robtattoo/MAP.jpg)
The area is only accessible by boat & to the best of my knowlege only me & a friend of mine are hunting it. The total area is roughly 50 acres of open woodland (on the hillsides by the lake) & thorny sawbriar & honeysuckle on the tops.
When we first scouted the area in September we found & marked the biggest trails (white lines) but the honeysuckle areas are just a mess of trails, criss-crossing together (inside the red lines) Later in the season (mid October) we started finding a lot of rubs. So many, in fact, it was tugh finding a tree smaller than 3" that hadn't been rubbed to some extent.
On the 2 trails running parallel along the north side of the land we found two seperate scrape lines, one had 11 scrapes, the other 19. These areboth obvious scrape lines, not just random scrapes. If you stand in one, you can pretty much see 4 or 5 in a line.
We have not hunted the land too hard, once a week on average, from late September onward & have been careful not to follow the same tracks in & out each time. Between the 2 of us, we've sat in each stand from sunup until sundown (although not in one stint)
The best we've seen so far, on Monday my bud saw 3 small does on the South side of stand 3 at 8:15 AM
The photos in my next post show a 270º view from stand 2.
If anyone thinks they can help, I'll happily EMail a fullsize version of the Google Earth pic.
You cansee how thick it is up on the tops, where the deer are beddng & the trails are pretty durn obvious in the snow.
This stand (like the other 2) is set up on the downwind side of the 2 scrape lines, roughly 20 yards from the edge of the honeysuckles.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/robtattoo/lakestand001.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/robtattoo/lakestand002.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/robtattoo/lakestand003.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/robtattoo/lakestand004.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/robtattoo/lakestand005.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/robtattoo/lakestand006.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/robtattoo/lakestand007.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/robtattoo/lakestand008.jpg)
rob
looks like a great spot
what are the deer feeding on
might try some trail cameras on the heavy runs
how large is the island 50 acres total? do the deer move off the island or onto the island for security?
a lot of variables are involved
kevin
I'm guessing that the deer are eating the honeysuckle. There are very few oak trees in there & they're all dropped anyway. I can't find any evidence of them rooting for acorns anyway.
It's not actually an island, just a spit of land jutting into the lake, but the nearest accessible road is about a 3 mile hike.
If you were to pan the picture up & left at a 45º angle, you'd see a few lakehouses with well manacured lawns. No crop fields for miles.
As best we can discern, there is no reason for the deer to even leave this area. They have water all around, good shelter, thick bedding areas & honeysuckle to eat.
From the tip of the spit to the mainland (so to speak) is about ¾ of a mile & across the widest point, maybe a ½ mile. It's a pretty big area.
I'm loathe to leave out any cameras. Even though I'm 99.99% sure no-one else is there, it's still public land & I'd hate to lose $500 worth of camera. I'm nervous enough leaving my stands there & they're only 30 bucks a piece!
QuoteOriginally posted by KHALVERSON:
. . . what are the deer feeding on?
That was my thought. An island/penninsula may concentrate the ones who stay, but is there anything to keep them there if there is no food?
You're seeing tracks, so they are there. But if they are moving at night you need to find their day use trails and bedding areas and catch them moving to and from those areas.
Just from looking at your God's Eye picture, I'd set up at the top of that woodlot above the sign that says "wind" at the head of the ravine. Just inside the woods about 20 yards. It's in the center of the open brushy section (so they have cover and an escape route), the water "funnels" them up if they are moving to and from the penninsula and it is South facing. Likely they will be starting their day somewhere near there.
PS - set up 10 or 15 yards off a trail and not directly on it. Same for a field. Don't set up right n the edge but in a few trees. You stick out and movement shows a long way off.
Rob. Doesn't the brother of the bow site have a service where you can get info from them on this exact situation? I'm not certain but just an option for you maybe. Good luck!
Keeping the Faith!
Magnus
Where the two inlets?? at the bottom of the page are going upward looks like where I would start if I were headed there for the first time.They should be making a great funnel. I would go up above the end of them a bit .Critters should be funneling around them.The one on the left where you have the wind marked would be about where I`m talking about.
I hunt different that a lot of folks. I don`t hunt trails I hunt trails in funnels.RC
Rob, try a canoe and leave the boat motor at home. You also have to move the stands around, deer can pattern you even after you leave. If you have been sitting in the same place all year they know where you are and avoid those places in daylight.
I highlighted the two spots I would start with - depending on what a ground scout showed.
Just MHO and based on NY whitetails.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/MAP.jpg)
Dunno Rob, but my first though is that those deer have trails, food source and bedding area right on top of each other, making them very difficult to hunt because of lack of movement.
One thing that might be worth trying is a slow, controller push to see what's happening when you come into your stands in the morning. One of you swing around the south end and drop in that inlet farthest to the east. Work in a few hundred yards and set up. Other hunter goes back around to the west and lands as normal, then still hunts slowly towards the first hunter.
If you see no or very few deer, maybe it's just a low deer population area. If you see quite a few, you may have to rethink your stand approach and location based on ( I think ) the deer bedding right under your stand locations.
No way you could know this KY TJ..... but that would be one heck of a canoe paddle for Robbie ! It is over 2 miles I think.
Rob, maybe Mason and I can come over in the next few days ? Not that we are an expert, that is for sure ! We need folks like RC and KY TJ, they are the ones with the hero pics !
I suspect that Khalverson and Stumpkiller are correct in their assumptions...... night activity ! It will fool you everytime, especially the heavy night trails made by groups of does. Took me a while to figure that one out too. Do you have any of the newer Scoutguard type cameras that will fit in the palm of that paw you call a hand Robbie ? We could hide it better and maybe not lose it to thieves ? A camera would confirm all this for us. Looks awesome with those trails in the snow. Betting that you will have to move inland and catch them in the mornings leaving the penisula or vice versa, catching them heading to it in the evening. Let's find a choke point if we can where most of the deer leaving the penisula are using ? If we see no deer keep moving 200 yds at a time further inland till you are in them during daylight hours. Mason and I don't have a problem getting on the deer, just a problem getting them within 30yds !!! I want to take lessons from RC and KY TJ. JMHO
Late season movement is likely food motivated. Perhaps there is a significant food source away from the peninsula you are hunting? Just a thought. The tracks you are seeing could be nocturnal movement as deer roam and browse away from the primary food source.
What about how you approach the peninsula and wind direction. 50 acres is quite small, and perhaps the deer are being bumped out of the area on your approach? Just a thought!
The previous idea of a gentle push might be a great way to see deer and learn escape routes. What if one hunter approached the southern stand by canoe and arrived slightly prior to the 2nd hunter taking the long walk in from the north? Just a thought again?
Ryan
At this time of year deer are really grouped up try to scout and see where they are bedded then look for digging to see where they are feeding.There are lots of night time trails at this time of the year that will fool you.Just remember deer are not traveling very far to get to food at this time of year.Good luck :archer:
i would try the spot left of stand 3 between the bay and hooneysuckle thicket. Looks like it could be a funnel of sorts.
Just wait for the coldest period and high pressure systems. The deer are conserving energy most of the time during this period but will naturally move during the coldest periods to generate heat. Looks like you are in the right spot otherwise.
I agree that the most likely culprit is nocturnal deer. Public land that is pressured changes patterns. I'd also guess that is a bedding area and they are feeding elsewhere. They might have you patterned and skip out before you get in your stand. I'd walk in the 3 miles. You can always use the boat to get the deer you kill.
50 acres isn't that much ground especially when only roughly half of it is used by the deer. It's pretty easy to bump them off that.
The one thing I've learned from watching deer around public land is they are aware when people are coming and going.
I watched deer raise they heads when trucks drive by on the roads. Maybe cut the motor aways from shore and use an electric trolling motor. Be quiet when you beach the boat.
See if it helps.
i would cover the whole place till i jumped the deer from there beds, then i would know where to put up stands from there. or hunt the stands you have more than once a week, you need to know were theyre at....imo.
Many things could be the cause, many of which have already been touched on.
I would start moving around. Two man drives possibly? Hunt from the ground if you need to, but find out where they are. I tend to think they may have shied away from the water's edge for more shelter. That and the food source may have changed.
Another tactic, two walk in to a stand, one walks out. If they are alerted to your entrance, this may fool them into thinking the threat passed by.
Have they changed their feeding habits this late in the season? Up here they are already hammering cedar and juniper...the main winter forage.
Very interesting, some really good ideas coming forth. Love this site.
I would hunt in the center of of that thick patch of woods to the west of stand 1. I generally look at the satellite view a little further out and see where the thick woods make funnels and hunt around the funnels inside the woods. I only hunt very small clearings no more than a 40 yard view. It has worked pretty good for me so far. I also try to hunt on weekends when there is no moon. Where we are (Texas) they feed at night when there is enough light to see by. Get there before first light and give a grunt at first light. Just my two cents. Good luck.
Thanks for all the help so far folks. I guess I ought to think about hunting different areas.
Just a few clarifications...
The 'Wind' arrow was supposed to point in the direction of the prevailing wind across the peninsula. I've avoided that side altogether as I didn't want to stink up the bedding areas.
I may have understated the size of the area. After doing a few quick sums, it's nearer 90 acres than 50!
The thick wooded areas you can see around the perimiter of the peninsula are very, very steep slopes. The centre-line of the peninsula is about 600 feet above the water level.
We have seen absolutly no tracks running along the slopes (there is one small 'bench' running along the extreme North shore that's had a little activity) only up & down & even then, not many.
We jumped lots & lots of deer in the honeysuckles whilst scouting, both in the mornings & afternoons, so we know they're there. We've also seen 4 different bucks (a 10 point that my go 150ish, 2 8 pointers & a sixer, right on the very tip of the peninsula (whilst bass fishing earlier in the year)
It's a ½ hour drive, ½ hour boat ride from my house, plus the time it takes to get to my stand (20 minutes, give or take, so I don't make too much noise or get to sweaty) so I'm favoring late morning or afternoon hunts. Sunup is around 5:45 & getting up at 3:30 in 20º weather is as much fun as it sounds!
Lay out some corn and see if it is being eaten. You can also use sewing string to mark trails and if the string is broke then some thing walked by. Also the way the string is laying will tell you which way they where walking..
QuoteOriginally posted by mysticguido:
Lay out some corn and see if it is being eaten.
I'm
WAY too pretty for jail! :laughing:
didn't know it was illegal, but I don't mean to be used as a bait pile.
LOL! I understand what you mean Sal, however the TWRA are really strict about any corn on the ground during season. Even if you're nowhere near it, they'll still ticket you if you're in the same area.
Rob, It sounds like your deer are bedding in the "grocery" store with no real reason to move very far.
I hate to say it but I would ease into those honeysuckle bedding areas and set up a stand if anyway possible. Also when you and your friend hunt, one of you should come out 30 minutes later than the other in the mornings and in the afternoon one go in 30 minutes earlier. Thats what we call at our hunting lease "use your buddy as a dog" tactic.
Glad you are enjoying deer hunting!
Benjy
Really excited for one of you guys to tag something in there. You're definitely working hard at it.
Rob,
Benjy hit on what would be my recommendation. I used to have a somewhat similar situation. I finally just setup dead in the middle of the honeysuckle. Saw a lot more deer. Shot opportunities were often reduced, but when they presented themselves they were close.
Also wonder how the winds/thermals are effecting your area. Have found that crazy changes in terrain, steep ridges with benches sometimes alter what is the expected norm in wind patterns.
And if all else fails and your not "feeling" good about the spot then move. Good luck.
QuoteOriginally posted by robtattoo:
QuoteOriginally posted by mysticguido:
Lay out some corn and see if it is being eaten.
I'm WAY too pretty for jail! :laughing: [/b]
Thats funny right there! :D
No advice here - looks like a great place though.
Jason
I am gonna throw in some ideas from a total newbie at hunting deer. In other words, I haven't done it yet. I read one of the other threads that Elk drink twice a day. Are deer the same way? I see a couple trails on your map that lead to the water. Are these a possibility. Take it from a stupid newbie. :dunno:
This is a good thread to read. It is a good way to share tactics and learn in a practical setting.
It would be interesting to see more aerial/topo/google views of other areas that folks are trying to hunt, and hear explanations of what logic everyone applies to where they would set up, like was done here.
Plus maybe a follow up of where & when a kill was made afterwards. And of course, a picture!
Be sure to post when you connect so we can see what worked. Good luck.
Well heres some of my thoughts on your situation. Now granted I've never hunted deer in your area and deer are definately different acting in different locals.
I think you've got a very remote, large, secure bedding area deer are obviously using. Not sure on your honeysuckle but sure its a good food source scattered throughout that makes it even harder to hunt. But I would think that there are other food sources, you mentioned some or a few oaks but they are gone now.I've hunted several places like this in the past and they were TUFF! Obviously your best bet is to hunt the oaks when and if they hit. I've actually kept a eye on areas just like yours and only hunted them hard when the oaks were dropping. Now that might be evey other year or up to four years apart if a late spring frost hits. Not to get into a bait bashing thread but I hate it when baiters say it's no different than baiting while hunting over oaks. Like I've said I actually have hunted some areas only every few years just waiting for a apple tree or oak tree to hit. Where as baiting can be hunted every year all season long, but enough on that, thats why I wear out several boots a year. Scouting late summer with a good pair of binoculars can tell you along with past experience if and where to hunt there that year.Places like yours will be unbelivable places to hunt undistrubed deer in the early season with a hot concentrated food source. Baiting is legal in my area and I hate it. With that said I know it's illegal in your area but I wonder if the fancy homes you mention don't feed? I just killed a late season doe on private property that were feeding at a fancy home feeder on adjoining property. The property I have permission to hunt actually borders it within 40 yards of the feeder. But I was probably 400 or 500yards away close to a laurel thicket where I could catch them meandering around during daylight hours.
Another place I hunt like yours is roughly 200 acres with maybe 10 oak trees on the entire property. Feast or famine,but boy the feast years are outstanding! Other wise you can hunt all day and hardly see a deer in range.
Finally some of your photos I'm guessing are "late" season photos. Around my parts shortly after blaze organe season starts family units from all around will congregate in a secure area during this mad season and go totally nocturnal. This can happen during bow season on some public places also. Great for bowhunting then but when the pressure lets off those deer desperse and your left with "tons" of sign but they are no longer tons of dere there now.
Lastly forgive me if it sounds wrong but it sounds like your hunting one partial day only every once in awhile. In a area like yours the deer are despersed and you might have to hunt it several days in a row to see results. I don't like to overhunt a stand either but if I've scouted it out and it's convinced me to hunt it I hunt it hard 3 days. That can be tuff if it's a not easily accessed place such as yours. Otherwise it's down to hunting draws, or funnels even if you have to "make" some with brush etc or if like your area thats already thick selectively trim some limbs through the thick areas to make a easy access trail for the deer. Deer love easy access trails. On one place the old farmer got so old that his fields didn't get brush hogged so in the summer I'd take my blade weed eater and make several trails considering wind etc to a good tree stand location. Man it looked like intersates come hunting season.Doesn't take much "trimming" in a thicket with pruners to do the same thing. Good luck sounds like a good place to hunt for sure. Final thought IF I've hunted several days in what I think is a prime area and I've not seen deer I will tromp around in prime time to jump deer and see where they are! I then file that info in this pea brain of mine for future use.
Maybe you're just related to me - and we didn't know it, rob - sorry.
(I know, you were serious - but you had lots of good answers to think about, and I just couldn't help myself, after my 4th or 5th terrible year in a row. The good news is, with any luck we'll get another chance next year.)
You don't need a $500 camera to find out when the deer are moving. I may be old fashioned but those $10 string timers work great for me but I'm old maybe they don't even make them anymore.
I agree with RC - hunt off the end of those inlets. Also,it looks like the thick stuff is pretty close to the lake - if you're using a boat with a motor to get to your spot, I'd beach the boat as far from where I'm hunting as possible as the deer are gonna know you're there from the boat noise...I know its hard to get out of a boat without making some noise with your equipment, etc. so I'd be real particular about that also...
If all else fails, I'd be tempted to try a soft push - have someone come in from the area above the peninsulas(at the top of your pics above stand1), pushing(very slowly) the deer down toward someone on stand down near the inlets or peninsula...
I'd put a stand on the east side of that trail intersection that is south of stand 1. Also early spring, I'd be in there with some pruners cutting a trail to and from your stand location thru the honeysuckle on a east-west axis. Nothing wide, just enough to make it easy walking for both you and the deer. Getting to your stand from the east side and watching the deer come down the trail you've made from the west. Then I'd beef up the buck pole before the season opens. :thumbsup: