I felt all alone for a long time until I read the campfire philosopher in the new Traditional Bowhunter mag. I apologize in advance for my rambling but I have had enough and cant take it any more. Hunting for me is a way out no phone no tv no radio no naging wife oh wait that is the ex. Anyway our sport has become killing the biggest at any cost That last coment was not ment for this site but for hunting in general. As I look through a Cabals catalog I wonder how we harvest any thing without all of the widgits and gidgits.Not on the trad end but a example of things is that a fine gun should have good wood in it. Synthetic stocks are the norm now becouse some writer got a free one and you cant give free stuff a bad revew cause you will not get anymore free stuff if you give it a bad revew.Hunting shows are a other thing the end of them are like the end of a Nascar race ( The go getum mean muther buck gitter did A great job for us today)Enough rambling becouse i dont like to type. Its just nice to see someone else sees the world as I do.
Couldn't agree with you more. OK, rant on. Most the hunting equipment sold today is less about helping you fill your tag than vacuuming the money out of your pocket. Hunting seems to have become more of a competition, win at all costs activity rather than learning about nature and spending time with loved ones away from the hustle and bustle of our modern lives. I think my head is going to explode the next time I see a photo of a small buck or bull and the person who killed it refers to it as a "dink" or "not a trophy/booner/book" animal. Rant off.
O2, I think your preaching to the choir here at TG. I too get kinda bummed at these so called hunting shows, it reinforces that stereotypical mentality people have of hunters. Amen! I say to the people who started TradGang, Traditional Bowhunter Magazine and all who vend and espouse the traditional way....Phil
Well said I think? Selling stuff steals the fun. Long as folks support it, it'll continue especially the kill at any cost hunt shows.
Can't blame those who sell the stuff. They're just taking advantage of a gullible crowd. I've got plenty of friends who can't wait for the next "latest and greatest". I appreciate their excitement nonetheless. I figure at least they're getting out there. I think, as mentioned already, you are preaching to the choir here my friend. Just don't forget, any hunting is better than no hunting. Though some of us may not actually consider some of what goes on "hunting". What they do may not be my cup of tea, but it is for others...
I would love to see a hunting program that showed some real world bowhunting. Personally, I'd love to see the host of the show take an occasional doe or go on a rabbit hunt. But I won't hold my breath waiting. Does and bunnies simply don't sell the products that the manufacturers are trying to shove down our throats.
Offer and demand,easier,faster,time saver,fame,instant superstar etc. It's sad but the list is endless... Viva trad bowhunting and all the trad stuffs related to it.
Mathews have a $2000 dollar bow coming out this year and they are already ordering it. The funny thing is when I go to shoot at the local archery shop the archers show a lot of respect for my self bow and old Bows. They just can't break free from all the hype and have to shoot a trophy buck. The younger generation has been brain drained.
Most of us feel the same way about what hunting has become...sad.
I try to live in my own little pre-1968 ("arrow launching device") world and when it gets bad, and I can't get out in the woods with my recurve, I throw in one of my Fred bear DVD's or read a back issue of TBM. It helps.
I've hunted for 42 years 21 with a selfbow.I now where your coming from. But people hunt for different reasons. And no matter fere your coming from the end result is you killing what your after. If not get a camra.
A lot of us agree,that is why we hunt with the equipment we do.
Funny how timely this thread is for me.
I got a gift card this Christmas for Gander Mtn. We have one close by. I don't really like GM for various reasons. I spent well over an hour in there trying to find anything worth getting. The advertisement hype is just that - Hype. No two blade broadheads to be found. Nothing trad except a few three finger gloves that were camo hype. I left with four plastic arrow cases, an archery tackle box geared towards the compounders and an Arkansas stone for broadheads. I just wanted to get rid of the card by the time I left. Even one of the employees I spoke to said he used to order more trad stuff until his manager stopped him. What a shame.
I came straight home and got a Tradgang fix to get me settled.
A newbie's view...
What draws me to traditional archery is that there isn't much room for what I call "The Macho Factor." Scuba diving offers a good example of the macho factor. It isn't as bad as it used to be, but there's still the chest-pounder who's first question is, "How deep do YOU go?" Personally, I like a shallow reef with loads of colorful fish and less need for cumbersome equipment.
Speaking of water sports... My wife has a nickname for the guys who drive the big, loud, go-fast boats... Something to do with certain... "inadequacies"?
I guess I've always had some interest in archery, but I never picked up a compound bow. I've always been turned off by the tough-guy, yahoo persona that seems to come through in the adds... "You can be Top Dog and kill the biggest deer if you buy our biggest, baddest, futuristic new bow with all the bells and whistles" Maybe I'm not being fair, but...
Then I discovered traditional archery.
I like the attitude in the advice I hear or read from traditional archers. The ones I've met are good and humble people. From what I understand, it doesn't come easy to anyone. Everyone has to work at it. There is no equipment that will make up for the lack of skills that can only be developed by practice. That doesn't leave a whole lot of room for worrying about what "stuff" the next guy has.
In fact, my understanding is that the ultimate is to be able to put meat on the table by spending a quiet day in the woods with a stick and string that you made in your garage!
How cool is that? :bigsmyl:
It's like watching a guy shoot an elk from 300 yards whats the point,it's not about the killing it's about the prep.scouting,finding where the animals are and geting close.I don't watch hunting tv,just to many fakes in my opinion.
Freinds don't let freinds shoot ugly bows, composite stocks or watch TV glam hunting!
Hunting is a way apart from the rest of the world for me. It's my me time, time to be completely alone, in a place removed from all noises of the modern world. Thats probably why most of my hunts are solo and way back in there. I love to share a camp with freinds and hunting buddies but when it's time to hunt i want to be alone. The famous quote "when your 2o feet up in a tree stand, your 20 feet closer to god" comes to mind at the moment.
The cabelos catalog, it's hard to even find anything related to archery period in it anymore. All I see is X bows and junk in it with the exception that they do carry some good quality clothing but then again my local salvation army has a pretty goood selection to!
I gave up on the hunting shows a long time ago, I can honestly say I have not seen one (the TV type) in over 5 years!
And the campfire philosopher is always the first article I read when the TBM gets here!
i am with you on all the sentiments above.
however , i do own an old wheelie bow that my old man gave me when his shoulders and back got too screwed up to pull it back. now he shoots a compound. i talk to a lot of people with my job , and all the hunters seem to be ablwe to pick up on my hunting hobby and most of them either shoot compounds , boomsticks , or get this...
guy i talk to the other dday while im looking at his honda , tells me he got the new horton crossbow. i just nod and say thats cool. i have no clue what hes talking about. he proceeds to tell me its a 340fps monster that cannot be used without a mechanical winch to cock it. i asked him "what if you miss" ...he said "then i pull out my 357 and shoot the deer" :|
i would gun hunt if i ever get the chance to get out during hte season , and next year i hope to pick up a cheap muzzleloader for that season here.
but my passion is making shavings in the garage , whipping up a string and some homemade arra's , and goin stumpin in the yard or bunny chasin with some guys from the forum.
wise man once said "fishing lures dont catch fish , they catch fishermen" , and thats how i feel about the mainstream hunting. but some people like all that , and to each his own...
-hov
Damn Karebru if you don't get it perfect! Well on you trad folks & bow brothers! Lead by example.
I hesitate to respond to threads like these in that sometimes words get taken out of context. Hova said it best in his last line above. I hear all the time that hunting trophy animals only for material gain leads to a very slippery slope, and couldn't agree more. (although that is far from a problem for me:) ) But I think that being a purist can do the same. Doing such alienates yourself the same way hunting for money does. Many folks are like myself, we hunt because it is who we are, and if a 200 in buck walks by, it's getting an arrow (or shot at :) ) But if I have an opportunity at a doe and can shoot it, I will. I enjoy my glass longbows, but one day want to shoot a self bow. But I hunt and enjoy camps with folks shooting wheel bows. And they are great people.
What I am getting at, is this life we all live and breathe is a very personal thing, and only you know when too far is too far. People are what makes the hunter, not the equipment.
It looks like cabin fever is starting early this year :)
Guys I have'nt got the new issue in the mail yet and I am not quite sure what it says, but I want want to comment on the gadget hating. I think it is the duty of the hunter to decide what is a gimmick and what is not. I don't think its fair to criticize other hunters for their tackle when 90%+ of us are shooting fiberglass/carbon bows and synthetic arrows. Also saying that composite stocks and knife handles are not superior in everyway except nostalgia is self delusional. Nylon tent, sythetic fill sleeping bags, thermacells, etc have made the outdoors better for lots of people and just because your grandpa did'nt use them doesn't mean they don't have their place. We might not like the hunting personalities but to the average joe they are charimatic easy to like, the same cannot be said of an elitist. Sorry for my rant.
There are more people that think like you do than you would ever know.. I too canceled ALL of my outdoor "killin" channels from my DTV.. The horn porn became too much to stomach...
Do it right with ethics and values. Bowhunting is all about the challenge. Not how many gadgets you can buy to shorten the learning curve..!
Well said Steadman and bigbadjon... :thumbsup:
These are some of the many reasons I don't subscribe to the Big Tent Theory.
I've read all these comments and have tried to see where I fit. I guess I'm in the middle. I've given up my training wheels for the stick and string but my arrows are both aluminum and wood. My BH's are modern COC's. My clothes are both wool and synthetic. I don't use any optics or those range finder thingys. I carry what tools of the hunt and food for the day in a sachael(sp). My best friend shoots a compound but he's still my best friend.
Yep, just somewhere in the middle...
"The horn porn became too much to stomach..."I like this! If it's ok I would like to save it for future use.
I dont watch the shows and I like to have a chuckle at some of the new gear that just doesnt make sense to me, I whittle my own bows, shoot wood arrows and generally am a minimalist when it comes to my hunting gear. That being said I make every effort not to judge a man by the gear he carries but by the way he carries himself.
The media and advertisers will be what they are, no changing that, they are trying to appeal to the largest market not the smallest or the smartest. The shows sell sponsors gear and more shows by shooting big bucks in exciting locations. They have dynamic hosts that can get the viewer excited about hunting and convince them that it is all possible using this or that piece of gear. Pretty simple concept.
I really dont care what gear you might carry Im more concerned with how people act.
I love to get out and listen to nature not some loud radio!
I'd love to respond, but I haven't read the article. Besides, I'm too busy reading threads about carbon arrows, $30 broadheads, metal ILF risers, carbon/foam limbs, climbing tree stands, using my computer to scout via satellite photos, Thermacells, pop-up ground blinds, such-n-such camo pattern, or stories about people killing huge trophy animals. ;)
I think if you have ever listened to my music you know that I agree with most of the posts above. yet I can't help but wonder when I read these sorts of ramblings how many of you would say no if Mathews called you up and asked you to host a new tv show. it would include more time hunting all kinds of game than you've ever dreamed of in places you've only dreamed of going. You just have to shoot that new $2000 bow. You gonna turn it down? I don't think so.
Sir, are you suggesting that the honorable folks of TradGang would sell out thereby flipflopping on some of their stated positions?
I agree with most of the threads. I still hunt with a compound, but every season that I become more comfortable with my shooting, I hunt with with my recurve more. Next year I may put my compound to rest, my shooting is getting better and this season I shot my first deer with my recurve. I watched The American Archer with Tom Nelson this last weekend. I know Tom from back in the day at Anderson Archery, It made me sick to watch his show. According to Tom you will never shoot a deer unless you use all the Dead Down Wind products. There is so much pressure from the sponsors to push there products. But we have the choice to watch the program or turn the channel.Every body talks about keeping things traditional but Fred Bear used the latest arrow materials and bows in that period of archery.
It is common to hear people talk about their Freedom to do this or that, what some forget is our Freedom NOT to do something.
If you don't like some of the modern trappings offered today, then you are Free NOT to use them.
With every path we choose to follow, there are those that we choose NOT to follow, and reasons why.
To each his or her own, and the freedom to respectfully voice why we make the choices we do.
The last non-domestic land-animal I killed to eat was a pheasant in the early 1970s.
I'd sure like to get good enough with this fiberglassed, R/D longbow, that my next kill is made with a carbon arrow! ;)
Throw another log on the fire. Will ya? :campfire: And pass me a beer.
I'm always amazed at what the marketeers did with the freshwater bass fishing scene. They built a multi-billion dollar industry around a stupid trash fish not fit for human consumption that barely puts up a fight. I sure hope traditional bowhunting never goes down that road!
RPolk... You hit the nail right on the head! Life is about making choices, some are good and some are bad.
True...life is about the choices one makes. In this case the OP is merely stating his agreement with Kamstra's philosophy. Some folks agree, some don't.
However....
No matter ones views with respect to technology and pursuit of the outdoors, no one can deny that fishing and hunting in particular have been prostituted by those out to make a buck.
That's not good for any of us.
I agree totally that outdoor sports are being prostituted. I've noticed the last couple of issues of Traditional Bowhunter Mag has ran advertisements from Bear and Hoyt. The bear adds are very tasteful with pictures of Fred Bear and I realize they are trying to make a comeback in the traditional market. But the Hoyt ad with Fred Eichler is what this post is talking about. There are a lot of advertisements with bows having metal risers. I hope traditional archery does not follow the same path as black powder rifles, in-line synthetic stocks, scopes ect.
I'm not a fan of many of the hunting shows. I love shows that feature moose, sheep, turkey, and sometimes caribou IF they are bowhunting. I don't like the motorcycle, rock or country music themed shows. I can't stand cooking segments, and the last thing I need to see is a bowhunter with bed-hair being dragged out from under the covers. Neither do I want bowhunting sold the way jeans and beer are sold if you get my drift.
I'm getting very bored with watching people hunt deer, bear, and even elk (I can't believe I included elk). If they are hunting with recurves or longbows like Eichler or Strickland, I'll watch anything.
I love Cabelas. I don't live close to one but I've been to probably 1/3rd of all of them in North America -- If there's one near me as I travel, I go. I love the atmosphere, especially the taxidermy. They don't have much in the archery department that interests me anymore, even when I shot compounds heavily. I also go to Sportsman's Warehouse and Bass Pro -- I guess it is a habit that I can't break. Again, I'll cruise the archery section but rarely will I find something I need.
Now, my handle will probably be put in smaller font for these next comments or have an asterisk placed beside it. I've shot compounds for all but the first 5 years and this last year of a 40+ year "career" in bowhunting. Even though I didn't deer hunt with a compound this year, I continue to target shoot with one. If I don't think I can head-shoot turkeys at 20 yards this spring, I'll hang the recurve up for a month while I hunt with an EZ7. I'm now shooting head silouettes on my basement range with my curves.
The following comments were triggered by the comments (and they weren't too harsh here on Trad Gang)about Mathews Archery.
I think Matt McPherson and Mathews Archery are the best things to come along for archery since Mr. Bear. And as a Christian fellow who adores children, they don't come any finer than Matt.
The strongest shooter development program in the history of the shooting sports is the National Archery in the Schools Program. Twenty thousand school teachers have taught NASP-style archery to 7.1 million students so far -- 77% had never shot a bow, 21-26% by their own bows within the first year, and 65% keep shooting after school archery classes. The kids are taught to shoot more like the way we shoot; fingers, no sights, no releases, stabilizers etc. Yep, a compound without let-off is the bow and Easton's aluminum arrows are used. But this is so the bows and arrows fit every student from 4th-12th grade, unlike a single recurve, longbow or regular compound. The maker of the bow doesn't even put his company's name on it for the school program. Mathews is the ONLY bow company to sponsor the non-profit NASP - -to the tune of $2,000,000 (Platinum) in 10 years. Since Hoyt is a subsid of Easton, I need to add Easton to this list as that fine company is a charter Gold Medal sponsor.
Within 5 more years, God willing, there will be more young people becoming archers than there were archers in 2001. So, when you hear folks sounding the death-toll for archery, bowhunting, and the shooting sports in general, don't believe it. According to the Sporting Goods Manufacturing Association (SYGMA) archery grew only 2% TOTAL from 2001-2009. However, in the last year for which data is available, 2009 archery participation grew 7.7% -- in a single year. This is 28 times faster than in the previous 8 years combined!
These kids will be drawn to traditional archery or not, based upon their exposure to it and to those of us who love it. We must embrace these archers, young and old as long as their muscles pull and hold the bow, I count them as mine. I shoot my recurves and compounds exactly the way as the kids are taught.
I know some of you here on Trad Gang are also involved in your local NASP effort.
They don't sell skill in stores.
On the other hand I learned a lot when relearning trad archery on this and other forums mainly because local shops don't DO trad. I bought bows here,studied other bows and gear here,and bought some trad supplies online via KK and 3R. Soooo a stupid modern gizmo allowed me to enhance trad skills --- huh?
Thanks for the advise guys I've never met!
Frankly, I never even trusted the stores with my compound issues. I and my friends do all the work on our equipment. Matter of fact, I'll admit being too sensitive about advice from a shop person. Too often their advice is product, sales, or convenience driven. I've learned it is better to act like I know nothing if I go in one. Just ask for something if I can't find it. If they don't have it I head for the internet or telephone.
How does 3Rivers ship things to me faster than I can hang up the telephone?
outdoor experience,respect,being for something... not against something,keep it stupid keep it simple,have fun life's short,it's your choice not mine and I respect it,EVERYBODY's right it just depend on the point of view.It's great to have this kind of discussion and it's even better face to face,in person,than it is using texts.Irespect all of your point of view even tough I do not agree with all.