Having just got cable and watching various bowhunting shows, it seems that leaving an animal out overnight when not sure about the shot is a common practice - even with blood and an obviously mortal shot? It seemed like a fairly casual decision? Just curious if folks out there do this and if they do, dont you lose all the meat (excepting SUPER cold -40 below nights)?
An elk will go bone-sour even if it is gutted but not skinned or properly ventilated, and a large buck will surely sour after 10 hours laying on the ground with the hide/guts on...or maybe not?
For the most part I think those shows are dealing with deer size game and smaller. Spoilage is not a major problem in most of the mid-west that I know of, even in the September portion of the hunt.
The possibility of losing your game spoilage is an important consideration. One must be ready to recover as quickly as possible if the weather is warm/hot. But not nearly as critical as the elk you mentioned.
Having the game taken by predators is always a consideration and in some area's of the country you WILL NOT find your game in one piece the next day. (sometimes in as little as a few hours)
Last year I let one go for an hour and must must have spooked off the coyote or fox that found him when I returned to recover him.
As it was damage was minimal but I given another hour I'm not sure if there would have been anything left.
Sometimes, for whatever reason, you are faced with this. I did this year, overnite, plus a few hours with weather around 30. Pouring rain, fog, and snow. When I butchered the whitetail, it was fine.
When I read here how long some folks hang and age meat, I would not be concerned.
I don't know about elk.
Well and then you have to have camera light for the hero pics on the recovery. I for one never leave one out that I can recover in the dark.
Mike
I've had to let deer go over night.I did lose one this year due to heat.If it goes down to the low 30's your ok.It only got down to about 40 the night i lost that one.And on ageing deer you gain nothing by doing so but stong tasteing meat.Deer is not even close to beef.Never have understood that one.
I agree with Mike. I have only left one out over night in temps that were around 20* and the next morning I recovered him and when I field dressed him he smelled pretty bad. I took him back home, skinned, washed him out real good and quartered and bagged him. Everytime I opened the refridge I had him in it reeked of rotten meat. Went to cut it up and it smelled so bad I had to get rid of it. I think for the shows they don't keep the meat anyway so they don't really care.I'd rather track at night anyway as the blood shows up better in a light at night. I'll never leave one out overnight on purpose again.
Interesting...surprised that any large animal would be fine after brewing in its own heat for so long, but sounds like for deer it depends on the situation/climate.
As for elk it doesn't matter, if you leave it dressed with the hide on, on the ground, you will lose meat. There is no question that if you leave an arrow shot elk whole on the ground overnight without dressing it will certainly be sour. I guess antler retrieval is the main gig for tv shows.
Seems like a game warden could pursue wanton waste charges on some of these hunting shows.
I started training my drahthaar to recover wounded game (not much training needed:). rare occurrences, but it sure does work well and is legal in most states. He found a nice buck a friend liver-shot this fall and was bedded down in shrubs, no blood trail, and you would have never seen him...but the dog did and the deer bolted and my heart dropped - thinking of the tales of an adrenaline engorged deer running for miles, but the dog caught him after 200 yds and took him down. Crazy experience, but a game changer for when bowhunting goes bad;)
I see that on those shows too. I have only done it once only because of failing daylight (gun-shot deer), no light, no help.
Every deer I've hit hard with an arrow expired close by. Only one questionable shot, a young doe hit in the paunch, I stalked immediately after getting out of my stand and shot again while it was lying down 50 yards from the original shot.
So it may have stayed there if not pushed by anybody or anything else and passed sometime in the night, or not, had it not there would have been no trail to follow.
It seems to me if it's common practice maybe choosing better shots and making those shots would be a better practice.
My experience is limited to eastern whitetail deer.
Regards,
Mark
For my part, I try to shoot them well from close range and when I'm sure I have a great hit, I follow up immediately... but if I have doubts, I leave them until morning.
I don't like dealing with "overnighters" because the experience is pretty unpleasant... but I've had to do it 6 or 8 times over many years. I've found that the spoilage issue is mostly with contents of the body cavity. The quarters and loins hold up remarkably well if you are very, very careful to avoid contamination.
If I am confident in the shot and can trail at night that is what I will do if at all possible. But I have had a number of deer over the years that have waited until morning for trailing.
Like Cootling said, the body cavity organs will smell down right bad, but most often the meat itself will be fine. Getting through the field dressing can take a strong stomach, but once that is done and the meat cooled as quickly as you can, most often you will be able to save it if temperatures are reasonably cool.
The reason to leave them over night is because the hit based on the shooter's info and sign shows that the animal will not die quick. The animal will not lay dead all night. Only part of that time.
I have had this twice. 5 years ago I shot a deer that left no blood trail after the first 50 or so yards. We looked for hours and didn't find it. The next morning first light I found it in a depressed area along a swamp hole. I had walked past it twice in the dard and my light didn't show it. I shot that deer Oct 1st and the overnight temp was mid 50's. The meat was fine. This year I hit one that turned on the shot. The arrow went in behind the shoulder,but angled forward into the front of the other shoulder. I saw the deer stop in some heavy cover. At dark I heard it run out. I was not sure if I should go after it or let it stay overnight. I left it and found it the next morning at first light. It was mid to low 40's overnight. Not meat loss.
Wow, i'm surprised. I guess deer dont go bone-sour like elk...and probably lose heat rapidly relative to other big game...even a pheasant probably retains heat better than a deer.
I've seen it in an elk where the skinned hind quarters were put in a game bag then put in an open pickup in 25 degree weather overnight...because the quarters were together in the cloth bag, they retained their heat and went sour...ever since that I have gone after every animal that night with my headlamp. The smell of that elk meat was not super rank like contaminated meat, but kind of strong/sour smell vs the clean, sweet smell of fresh meat, and the meat turns from fresh dark,deep red to a more opaque light red or pinkish color. not something you would notice in burger or jerky, but makes steaks or roasts pretty difficult to swallow without lots of barbq sauce.
On a questionable hit it is better to wait than bump an animal in the dark and lose it. It's been my experience that if it is cold (30s) I've not lost meat by leaving over night, sleep yes but not meat. I've had to leave a couple of whitetails and an elk, all ok. But I was on their trail before sunup. I've got friends that have lost animals to bears and coyotes.
QuoteOriginally posted by montucky:
Wow, i'm surprised. I guess deer dont go bone-sour like elk...and probably lose heat rapidly relative to other big game...even a pheasant probably retains heat better than a deer.
I've seen it in an elk where the skinned hind quarters were put in a game bag then put in an open pickup in 25 degree weather overnight...because the quarters were together in the cloth bag, they retained their heat and went sour...ever since that I have gone after every animal that night with my headlamp. The smell of that elk meat was not super rank like contaminated meat, but kind of strong/sour smell vs the clean, sweet smell of fresh meat, and the meat turns from fresh dark,deep red to a more opaque light red or pinkish color. not something you would notice in burger or jerky, but makes steaks or roasts pretty difficult to swallow without lots of barbq sauce.
I listened to a seminar by a butcher that is also a hunter. He was saying that if it is below zero, you need to get the meat at least cut down to the bone as soon as possible, because the outer skin and muscle will freeze, which creates an insulative protection for the bone, which is still warm, thus retaining heat and causing sour bone.
On the flip side of things. If it is above freezing, a deer will cool out evenly overtime. No freezing temps. means the heat continues to escape all through the night.
I shot this buck an hour before dark, waited a half hour to track, bumped him up after about 25 yards of tracking and left him overnight. I found him 10 yards from where we bumped him. Had I pushed him, I may not have found him. He was stoned cold and stiff as a board and all of the meat is just fine and tastes great.
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm291/BlacktailBuck/Pauls2010BlacktailBuck1Reduced.jpg)
some times I have let deer go in cold weather come back in the morning they are fine.when it is hot out I will wait an go after them that night. If I push them an dont getum so be it.they wont be anygood anyway because of the heat.one time I was tracking a deer my flashlight went dim I went to the truck came back 30-45 min later half on the hind quater is gone.foxes is what gets us around here.
A friend shot a nice doe this december here in Ontario and called me to see if I was available to help him find her and get her out. By the time I would have arrived it would have been well after dark and the forecast was for around 20 degrees, so we opted to hunt the area in the morning and get her then. Big mistake! We easily trailed her about 80 yards and found nothing but hair and a spine and hips that were cleaned off better than I could have butchering her. I was less than 12 hours and she must have weighed 130-150 live weight and there was NOTHING. I couldn't believe it. How many coyotes does it take to eat that much that quick? Lesson learned and a tag punched for being so naive.
Over the years, I have helped recover 6 bull elk that were left overnight in 50+ degree weather with the next day temperatures in the 60's and 70's. We did NOT gut any of them. We peeled the hide off (I prefer making the incision in the belly and skinning towards the back) took the quarters and backstraps off and as much of the neck meat as smelled good. Then flipped the carcass over and proceeded with the other side. The tenderloins can be accessed without disturbing the intestinal area also with some practice. Meat lost included the rib meat and some of the neck that had started to sour. I am a firm believer that field dressing a larger than deer animal, left over night, in the typical fashion allows built up gasses to penetrate meat when released in the process of gutting. All 6 of those animals meat was good. That being said I also helped recover a bull elk that had been shot the night before, gutted and rolled over belly down in the snow in 20 degree weather. The body cavity was still steaming 12 hours later. We determined that it should have been left back down with the legs spread to help get rid of the body heat.
Again, do not gut large game animals that have been left overnight.
It really all depends on when you shot your critter & yes temps come into play as well. In hunting elk mostly I've left a few overnight for sure! The only one where 1/2 meat was lost was on one hit early afternoon & not recovered until aprox 10am the next morning, temps were in the 70's ! We've had a few others hit the last hour of daylight & they were just fine in the am.
One has to take into consideration of the shot placement? If it was a marginal hit like one lung, liver or gut shot then that animal will bed if not pushed but it could take 4-8 hrs before it actually dies! With this in mind it's only been dead a few hours at best come daylight, so there are situations that will effect outcome differently.
If found at night break the animal down if at all possible & get it into game-bags & leave until morning if back in deep like elk hunts can be! If just gutted (which I never do anymore) then prop the insides open with a stick for best results. Never stack meat on meat whether in the woods or in your truck, air must be able to circulate your meat so it will cool down & get that sealed skin on it! This is crucial, even in ones cooler you cannot stack meat on meat for any length of time with out losing some!
If near water/stream drag the meat into it hide & all if needed to stay overnight, it will cool down the animal very well & not ruin the meat!
Of course if you hunt elk long enough & penetrate quite a distance there will be times the meat must stay the night, when this is needed we cut a pole & hang the left over meat not hauled out then & there! Elk hunters should always have game-bags with them so this is possible. When this is done hopefully you come back to your meat un-tampered with?
This year we left my sons bagged up elk overnight from about 11 am until the next morning because of distance we were not able to retrieve the rest of it the same day! We hung it up & when we got back in there we had, had a visitor! (grin)
You can see his handiwork here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKn5yZgYmEU
ElkNut1
I have had to leave a few animals overnight. Bowhunts are in august and septmber here so it's a discission that is not made lightly. Temps can be in the 90's during the day and 40's at night,sometimes warmer. I have not had a problem even with elk if you get to them at first light and work real quick to get them cooled. Water poured over a canvas bag or the quarters washed in a small steam will cool them quicker than you think. I would rather not push an animal if I don't have too but if there is any indication that I can find them quick I would rather not leave them overnight. I have had more problems with predetors that getting them cooled when left overnight.
I've found it neccessary to leave several deer and elk overnite. I agree however to never gut an elk . It's a lot of unneccessay work, and you can easily contaminate the meat. I've never had spoilage.
Larry
QuoteOriginally posted by BlacktailBowhunter:
I listened to a seminar by a butcher that is also a hunter. He was saying that if it is below zero, you need to get the meat at least cut down to the bone as soon as possible, because the outer skin and muscle will freeze, which creates an insulative protection for the bone, which is still warm, thus retaining heat and causing sour bone.
On the flip side of things. If it is above freezing, a deer will cool out evenly overtime. No freezing temps. means the heat continues to escape all through the night.
[/QUOTE]
Doesn't jive with my experience and seems to defy basic physics. The steeper the temperature gradient in meat, the more rapidly unfrozen meat should cool.
Unless I am absolutely sure ogf the hit or I see the animal go down I will leave it overnight and take the advantage of light and xtra time. It has been very helpful.
I have been hunting in wolf and grizzly areas for the last several seasons and usually build a fire at the kill first as the smoke will help keeps the bad boys away, then field dress and quarter and hang, then come back with horses the next day, a few occassion I left the quarters not very high but lucked out and nobody got to it. I think the smell of a small campfire helps.
I usually gut an elk enough to get to the rib-eyes, but leave the bladder and lower intestine etc all attached as to not risk anything... like others have said there is little need to gut if you in the backcountry and are skinning, quartering and boning out the backstraps.
I shot my first elk this past september, just at dark. I didn't recover him until almost noon the next day (no blood trail).
Although the temps were getting near 70 (maybe a bit higher in the direct sun), there was no spoilage. We deboned the meat (gutless method) as quickly as we could. There were flys present but we deboned as we skinned... keeping the flys off of the raw meat.
No meat was lost.
I think there are multiple conditions / circumstances to take into consideration.
I would NEVER leave an animal overnight that I felt could be recovered that night... but things happen.
I will leave one over night if needed. We lost one this year due to the heat. It only got down into the 50's. It was a gut shot and smelled so bad it hurt the nose.
I agree with the camera light comments. They will leave them over night when it was obvious it was a good shot just so they can have a better picture. That is my biggest problem with tv shows. I love the meat way more than the horns.
I've had to leave two cow elk out overnight in 40 to 50 degree weather, both were fine. But I got that meat on ice asap after I got it off the mountain so maybe that makes a difference?
I had to do it once and I was not happy with the idea, I like to get my deer dressed out ASAP and cut up right away. When I did this I asked my butcher if there would be a problem, he said the place for spoilage most likely would accrue around the anus ( hind quarters) because this is were the heat escapes. I would rather pick my shots carefully and practice more that leave a deer over night but things do go wrong at times. As far as the TV shows go I have noticed this also my feeling is that they are more concerned with the rack than the meat.
Deer are a little different than elk but any animal left over night with the guts still in will not be as palatable. I would always make an extra effort to find an elk. The mane on the neck will hold a lot of heat unless at least split. I will always skin the neck partially out and get it gutted, then propped open to cool.
Predators are another problem. If leaving the meat out over night I have found leaving my coat or shirt will keep coyotes away but will not deter bears.
Something to consider is just because the meat did not spoil by the time you got to it the next morning does not mean it will survive the next days heat and time required to get to the freezer/cooler. Most hunts are a long way home or even to the nearest ice. Ask your local processer how many animals arrive at the shop spoiled. I personally think way too many shows want camera light for trophies and could not care less about meat quality at the food bank.At times with hot conditions and long distances or time requirements you should not shoot if you know that meat will most likely spoil.