Trad Gang

A sheriff's deputy buddy of mine showed me his new 3d Gen night vision monocular system he uses to hunt coyotes and hogs with. It can be weapon mounted, helmet mounted or used with a head harness. They are not cheap. The visibility with just starlight was amazing, in fact probably one of the coolest things I have ever seen.  I then went into a pitch black garage and could see well in there too (flip on the built in IR illuminator and it's bright as a flashlight). So this got my gears spinning.....with that monocular on your left eye I bet you could shoot in pitch black darkness at hogs or whatever. Yes it's very techy but hear me out....it's just an idea.

How freakin cool would that be?

http://www.nvdepot.com/monocs/pvs14.asp

Well I guess to be able to see perfectly in pitch darkness is a very neat concept. But for myself I don't think it fits into my trad gear lineup.

highpoint forge...."They are not cheap."

In my opinion... That statement is a gross under statement, the price I read off your link is obscene.

But that's just my opinion and it's just about the price and no reflection on the high esteem I have for you.

I appreciate it that you bring your thoughts and ideas to share with us. Please don't stop!!

Thank you!

God bless,Mudd

PS: I think I must live in the past and expect pricing to be what it was "back in the day".
Reality is.. prices are what they are and we either pay or do without but maybe if enough folks were willing to do without for awhile the prices might come down. (These thoughts might be better off for a different thread, maybe?)

I think it would be fun to go out at night and watch what  goes on, but not for 3K.

I used NVG in the Corps and it is cool, But i can't see justifying the expense for just a coyote.get a red lens light.

Elusive wildlife's Kill Light XLR100


These are Bad Azs. I want one in Green light.

Sorry for the Pic that's the only one they have, but it will look great on My Recurve.

If you're gonna night hunt, why not wait for a full moon?   :bigsmyl:  
No offense inttended to anyone!
Besides for that kinda money I could book a great hunt and buy some new wool!

I got a little Holiday bonus so I went ahead and ordered one of each.  Whaddyathink?

 (http://sticknstring.webs.com/photos/2010-Pictures/nightvis.jpg)

Here's my $5000 coyote.  Wish I could afford to get him tanned  :)

 (http://sticknstring.webs.com/photos/2009%20Gun%20Deer%20007a.jpg)

John,
How many bows and arrows could that buy.   :bigsmyl:

First off. Good responses. DO NOT FOCUS ON PRICE. As he is LE the price is a third of the advertised price, and I used the link as an example. I'm discussing vision in total darkness here and trad shooting.

Thank you Mudd. Very thoughtful...again I am just playing with the concept. I hunt with gun guys who I'm trying to break of the habit of chasing packs of hogs at night with vehicles at their very large ranch. I suggested the night vision as a way to make these dudes stay put, stay sneaky, and pick off the hogs in the dark, rather than bum rushing them with guns a blazing from the trucks. Kids like toys, and this might disturb things a bit less.

I'm the lone trad archer in the group and they think I am crazy to hunt so close to game. I think their assault rifles and wheelbows are crazy.....it's a match made in heaven. Price is no object for these dudes. Don't get hung up on that part.


The NVG experience is unreal......adding an IR light is even crazier. Remember you CANNOT see IR light. Through the monocular it's like having a QBeam reaching out hundreds of feet while giving off no visible light. Ask any LE, military guys. This is nuts.

John that coyote looks pissed..........

I used to belong to an indoor league and for giggles afterwards we turned out the lights and shot at a candle flame.  The beauty of instinctive is you don't need a light.  ;-)

P&Y has something to say about hunting with "electronic devices" and NY frowns on a bow (or gun) mounted light.  Presumably, third & fourth generation IR receives and does not transmit.  But, hunting after sunset or before sunrise is restricted on large game.

Guess I'll pass.

TRAD Gang don't stand for " Technological  Research  And Development" do it?  If so, I can leave.  See what happens: first carbon arrows, now FLIR weapons systems.    

man i could go nuts buying Bows with that sort of cash!!

I know it's a crazy idea...but I wanted to discuss it, all responses are welcome. Yes they are expensive. So are the pile of Black Widow bows I have of which I shoot only one. Maybe I am nuts too?

I will look into the legality here in TX. Don't think it's an issue though on hogs, coyotes, etc.

T.R.A.D.......now that is funny.

I would definitely check your game laws before dropping the coin for one. Some states don't allow lighted devices, or illuminating, night vision, or any other form of night hunting with artificial light.

Missouri is kinda funny about that stuff.
They allow night hunting for coyotes, but you can't use an artificial light that casts a beam on the animal?? What is that all about?

On the other hand, you can hunt coons at night with dogs and use any artificial light you want to. Still don't get it?

Lighted sight pins on bows are ok, but no lasers or lights that cast a beam on the animal.

I know that sight pins don't come into play here with trad equipment, but I have a hard time understanding some states crazy regulations governing the use of lights.

I really don't know where my state stands on night vision equipment though?
I couldn't afford it anyway......even if it was permissable.

For hogs, anything goes, sounds like an interesting (expensive) way to be able to use trad equipment on hogs at night.

Leaving price out of it, you are going to have one heck of a time trying to go from shooting with both eyes and one dominant to monocular vision.  Matter of fact, unless you use some type of sighting device and sight it in one-eyed, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you won't be able to reliably take a shot.

Id give it a shot. Pair up a night vision device with a ghillie suit and you wouldn't even need a bow. Just walk right up, put salt on their tail and catch em by hand.

I would be concerned about how my instinctive shooting ability would be affected tho...sometimes it takes me a couple shots to get used to shooting with just a pair of sunglasses. Can't imagine how one of these might throw me off.

And again, I hate to bring up the price but I can't justify paying that much for something that is that fragile, I can't drive fast, doesn't attract the ladies back to my house, and I would only use now and again.

Now, if you can get us all that law enforcement discount.....    :)

QuoteOriginally posted by highpoint forge:
I know it's a crazy idea...but I wanted to discuss it, all responses are welcome. Yes they are expensive. So are the pile of Black Widow bows I have of which I shoot only one. Maybe I am nuts too?

I will look into the legality here in TX. Don't think it's an issue though on hogs, coyotes, etc.

T.R.A.D.......now that is funny.

Yes, In Texas You can use a light on Your Bow to do hog hunting, coon hunting and I think Yote hunting..

Man at a third of that price, sign me up, I would like to try one also.  I am not sure how well I would shoot with one eye and a completely different field of view but I think I could figure something out.  That would be a blast to try.  I wondering what it would be like or look like for shooting carp.

I think it'd be very cool. I'm a very amateur astronomer and have some interesting night time optics - an oldy but goody LX50 10" SCT telescope and of course a whole box full of relatively pricey eyepieces(my pride and joy, a 24mm Televue Panoptic), dew zappers and such to go with it. PLUS I've got a pair of 20x80 astronomical binos for those wide Milky Way sweeps. So yeah I can see me owning something like that....Phil

I see one of the "Trad Police" is out. Even cursing carbon arrows!    :rolleyes:  And yes, Stumpkiller, you DO need a light even for instinctive shooting, when it's totally dark. Otherwise, how do you see your target? A candle puts off some light or you wouldn't be able to see it.

Hey, people use lights at night for bowfishing. Why not night vision for 'yotes and hogs, if it's legal.

More a concerned local citizen than a policeman.  

I didn't curse carbons.  I just suggested they are a concession to taking an easier path and the spirit of traditional archery is to take the more difficult routes.  The night vision goggles are out an even easier path.  Far, far down that "easy" path.  Your path is your own business - but it tells me something when you are defensive about it.     ;)  

When does it just become "archery" instead of "traditional archery"?  Or killing with a bow instead of bowhunting?

And I think nightvision goggles for any sporting purpose is flat unsportsmanlike.  If you want to kill a coyote or guard a hen-house from raccoons, great.  I raise chickens and turkeys and I have killed dozens of coyote and raccoons - without mercy or sporting chance.  NVG are even better for knocking out an opponent on the battlefield.  But don't confuse it with hunting.  THAT is just my humble opinion.  No arrests will be made.

I too dont support these devices and or electronic devices on bows.I admit that it surely sounds exciting for especially hogs,but takes alott of the sport out of hunting.Isnt fair chase,roughing it style hunts what traditional archery hunting is about?Seems like letting all this technology legal to hunt with will just make it easy to poachers,screwing the whole deal up.And wow,3k.Im out.Ill stick with the Barta way.

QuoteOriginally posted by chanumpa:
I too dont support these devices and or electronic devices on bows.I admit that it surely sounds exciting for especially hogs,but takes alott of the sport out of hunting.Isnt fair chase,roughing it style hunts what traditional archery hunting is about?Seems like letting all this technology legal to hunt with will just make it easy to poachers,screwing the whole deal up.And wow,3k.Im out.Ill stick with the Barta way.

I agree with you on native game animals, but not destructive hogs.

I've seen the damage that they can do to fields over night or in a couple of days. Kill all pigs anyway that you can and anytime that you can is what I think.

QuoteOriginally posted by JAG:
If you're gonna night hunt, why not wait for a full moon?    :bigsmyl:    
No offense inttended to anyone!
Besides for that kinda money I could book a great hunt and buy some new wool!

Because that leaves most of the month, where there might not be enough light.

Beside there really is no need for wool clothing in Texas, no matter what anybody tells you.    :biglaugh:

I've been talking to some of my out-of-state friends about these.  I wouldn't hunt with one but I'd sure like to see where in the heck the animals are going before sun up.  I'd definitely use one to scout before season; I just think it'd be way cool to follow what's going on in real time.  But again, I wouldn't mount one & hunt in the dark.  Just an opinion.

(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g56/huntit/unsorted023-1.jpg)

This hog, and many more were shot at night in texas with no light other than stars or moonlight. I've tried a bunch of lights etc and the moon and stars work better than everything else for me. If you drink enough Full Throttle your eyes open wider and you can stay up hog hunting all night!

Very true Hunt It! Nice beast. I prefer moonlights as well and usually sit on my tripod well after dark to nail hogs coming into my feeders. Were I a gun guy, night vision is the way to go on pigs....snipe em from far away so the herd won't run too far.

Wow,pretty cool.Is it a Canadian ferul hog?

I use NVG in the Military for over 20 years, had the chance to test many different ones! After I retired, I found that I missed that being able to have them "available". So I purchased a "Cheap" pair fo Night Owl II Gen.(hand held) You can get a pair, on sale for $300.00 or less. I use mine for scouting, when I'm movin to and from the stand in darkness and for safety and securty, also great for hog hunting! I've never tryed to shoot with them, but I'm sure a smart guy could figure it! That leaves me out!!

Dave shot that one by the light of the brush fire sweeping across the ranch.    :biglaugh:

highpoint forge - Not getting much trad support on this one.  

I guarantee making the shot on a full moon night is going to be a heck of a lot easier than trying to shoot one on a dark night looking through NV.  So if you want to go with the mind set that trad should make it harder, then shooting the NV meets that criteria and should be applauded, right?  Sure it's a bit techy but the challenge is more difficult than making the shot at one in broad daylight so you've got my vote.  

Nice job trying to bring trad into your circle of associates and hunting buddies.   :clapper:

Man that would be sweet to try.Even one of the binos on a head harness.I'd give it a try.Night vision is sweet,been wanting some of it for years.

Unlike the rest of the trad police here, I think it would be well suited for hunting at night with a trad bow(At any game that is legal to hunt during night time obviously).

QuoteOriginally posted by Stumpkiller:
More a concerned local citizen than a policeman.  

I didn't curse carbons.  I just suggested they are a concession to taking an easier path and the spirit of traditional archery is to take the more difficult routes.  The night vision goggles are out an even easier path.  Far, far down that "easy" path.  Your path is your own business - but it tells me something when you are defensive about it.      ;)    

When does it just become "archery" instead of "traditional archery"?  Or killing with a bow instead of bowhunting?

And I think nightvision goggles for any sporting purpose is flat unsportsmanlike.  If you want to kill a coyote or guard a hen-house from raccoons, great.  I raise chickens and turkeys and I have killed dozens of coyote and raccoons - without mercy or sporting chance.  NVG are even better for knocking out an opponent on the battlefield.  But don't confuse it with hunting.  THAT is just my humble opinion.  No arrests will be made.

I'm just defending most of us against a few who seem to be "more trad than thou". I'll bet that you even find your way in unfamiliar territory in the dark morning hours to your stand via candle light too, right? I guess I'm not trad because I use an LED flashlight in the dark myself. High tech alkaline batteries and all. Why, I even use modern day technology for lighting up the water when I bowfish as well. What's the difference, NV and artificial lights?

LOTS of folks choose carbon arrows here as well too. I like'em 'cause they're tuff as nails and stay straight. Isn't carbon a natural material?

  ;)

QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
I'm just defending most of us against a few who seem to be "more trad than thou". I'll bet that you even find your way in unfamiliar territory in the dark morning hours to your stand via candle light too, right?        ;)    

No, I stumble in the dark 'cause I don't want to spook deer with a light.  But I do have a Fenix LED in my daypack and a Princeton Tec as a backup so you got me there.  Would I shine either on an animal to shoot at it while hunting?  Nope.  Would I use the Fenix when double tapping a raccoon with my .22LR Ciener conversion on my Colt 1911?  Yep.  But that's not hunting.  That's killing.

I drive a car, too, but not while I'm hunting.  And I do not use an ATV to get off the road.  I use my feet and leave earlier.  ;-)

More trad than thou?  As I said: we all chose how trad to be.  I'm not defending my choices.  But I still can't get my brain around shooting game while wearing night vision goggles as being traditional bowhunting of any kind.  Heck, I know compound shooters who probably wouldn't, either.  

People been gigging walleyes and alligators by targeting the reflections off their eyes since burning pine knots were the lightsource from dug-out canoes - go get 'em tiger - provided it's legal in your area.       :thumbsup:  

Carbon is a natural material.  Heck, it's an element.  Hop out and dig a carbon arrow shaft out of the ground and we'll talk.  The polyamine resin matrix used to hold it and keep it from behaving like pencil graphite - that's modern.      ;)    I know, I know.  My fiberglass limbed recurves are no different, really.  We make our own distinctions.

Stumpkiller,

Actually, I'll probably never, ever hunt anything with NV and I've never actually hunted game using trad bows with the aid of lights mounted on my bow, or my head for that matter, with the exception of finding my way around or blood trailing in the dark. But, I don't see much wrong with hunting 'yotes or hogs at night with lights or NV either, where legal. But, I can somewhat understand, and respect, your disagreement also, although, ultimately, I know my opinion doesn't matter.

What I really don't understand is why you chose to take a shot at the use of carbon arrows in trad bows, when the discussion at hand had nothing to do with what arrows one chooses to hunt with. That's what irked me. And, I'd say I'm not the only one whom it may have riled. It just seems to me that you're pointing the finger at many trad bowhunters in a "I'm 'tradder' than thou" kind of way. Why?

Just making the point, somewhat tongue in cheek, that we have blurred the line and it's easy to embrace easier.  

I respect your choices and you can come hunt my property any time and I'm sure we'd get along.  Sometimes I like to encourage folks to look inside (I was an instructor at a business college for a time) and if you thought that trollish I apologize . . . but obviously it hit some nerve.

I fancy myself "traditional" to the point that I like to use equipment from the 60's and early 70's.  So, what did a bowhunter from 1967 do?  He went to the sporting goods store and bought a dozen or two arrows, likely wood but aluminum was encroaching and, if he could have afforded it, may have selected those.  He pulled the most advanced bow technology and mass production could produce off the rack.  So why do I think I have to use old stuff to emulate him?  I have no idea.  Internal goals that I set for myself.  

Now, do I feel some nimrod who dug up a horse apple sapling and split out a stave with a hatchet and then scraped down an osage bow out of it with a cabinet scraper he made from an old sawblade and launched dogwood arrows with flint tips into a deer is more traditional than me?  Damn'd right I do!  I respect he is getting results by improving himself and not with heavy applications of dollars and technology.  But that's his choice.

So, in truth, I do not chose to use carbon but if you like that's your choice.  I feel I stick closer to whatever tradition truly is by using P.O. cedar.  I've worked a while and practice almost daily to get them to fly acceptably and I have no doubt you have honed your skills with the carbon as well.  Frankly, I just like cedar and that's why I use it.  I have seen carbon arrows in use hunting I do not consider adequate equipment - though never as shot from a recurve (I don't actually know any longbow shooters who use them, but I suppose there must be).

Sorry to have stained the thread and I hope something I typed assures you I regret implying my choices should be your choices.  

Shoot straight.

Stumpkiller,

Understood, no problem, man.   :thumbsup:    :campfire:

Not to crap on my own thread but I killed my very first hog in Oct, in 99% full darkness sitting in my tripod, by moonlight and adjusted night vision. Spine shot no less. So there. Take that, me!

Still effective for gun types, but for trad I vote no. Cool yes, but I won't attempt a shot with it. I "might" watch them come in to the feeder though with it.
  :D