Trad Gang

Hand shock hill style bows

I will not answer this because of the variables in form and individual bows, one can come to no real definitive answer with just a vote.  It can cause a misleading and unprovable dialog.

I have a 78# Cheeta that doesn't have hand shock...don't know about any other models...didn't vote.

What pavan said.   :thumbsup:

I never understood the handshock thing.Grip it right with a heavy arrow and enjoy. I love them.RC

Some have more than others, some can be tuned for less....too many differences bow to bow to really take the poll.

I don't feel handshock in my HH Half Breed,I'm a long time longbow shooter.I think some are more sensitive to handshock then others.I shoot a padded loop 8125 string and arrows around 10 gpp.

it's pure physics - longbows with curves to the limbs (r/d) will typically be smoother releasing than 'hill style' longbows with reflex, back set or plain ol' straight limbs.  

typically, you can reduce or pretty much eliminate the 'shock' via form and heavier projectiles - just like rc sez.  

i also agree with pavan that this kinda poll will only obfuscate and mislead, to some degree.

i've had a gaggle of hill longbows over the decades, and i'm fairly good at shooting such bows without much, if no shock at all.  it's all in the grip/form and heavy shafts.  after awhile it all becomes second nature.

... and then there are some folks who will make themselves believe that their hills ain't the least bit shocky at all when compared to most any r/d longbow ... and that there really is such a thing as the tooth fairy.   :saywhat:      :laughing:

I didn't vote ...
Hill style bows certainly have more of a "feel " to them when shot compared to many other style of bows around .
Is it, for want of a better word,  handshock ? probably ...
does it bother me ?
Not at all .
If it did i wouldn't have two on order and 7 sitting on my rack.
As has been posted ad infinitum on this forum , there are ways and measures to help with any perceived discomfort ...
low stretch strings , heavy arrows etc

I feel the shot more with my Hill style bows but it isn't the discomfort that many speak of . In fact they are without doubt my favourite bow around for hunting and i find them an absolute joy to shoot and tote afield.

If the 'bump' at the shot bothers you don't shoot 'em and look at some r/d bows perhaps.
Leaves the bowyers more time to build mine .

What Ben said! I have shot Hill's for the past several years, and I think they're the sweetest shootin' bows out there. I really think it comes down to two things...
 1. How you grip them. You can't shoot them like you shoot a recurve.
 2. Some people are just more sensitive. It's like firearms. Recoil bothers some more than others. When I touch off a .44 I think, "dang!... that was cool!", while some people just close their eyes and cringe.

Voted, but my only Hill style is a Northern Mist Shelton. I have shot a few Hills and have not  noticed hand shock. I did read Dick W's article on how grip them.

For thoses that didn't want to vote, I put (don't no). But from what I have read you should of said no. I put a poll out just to get some feed back. Thanks    :notworthy:

You either like them or you don't.  I understand that you can reduce the handshock by changing your hand position/grip, but that results in an uncomfortable and unnatural feel for me.  That puts me in the "not-for-me" camp.

If you have to write an article on how to grip something, it is more complicated than I want it to be.

This should save me time and increase my snarkiness per unit of effort ratio.

 (http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff187/GingivitisKahn/20101204_ac_08_handshock_myth.jpg)

I feel better.

QuoteThis should save me time and increase my snarkiness per unit of effort ratio.

:biglaugh:    :biglaugh:    :biglaugh:

All my Hill bows from Howard Hill Archery have hand shock. I'm not put off by this but I don't say it does not exist. It's the nature of the beast and not a big deal. By the time any shock is registered the arrow is clear of the bow. It does not affect accuracy.

I've never felt hand shock was a bad thing at all. It doesn't bother me.

Jack

You guys hit this one on the head.A man needs to pick up a heavy arrow,draw it back,send it off and deal with it.

My old Wesley Special was an absolute dream to shoot.  Whoever gets handshock from one of them must not know how to hold it properly, or are so convinced from listening to others they imagine the shock in their heads and are then sold on the whole idea, even though it is non existant.  Maybe it is because I shot a very heavy arrow (51# @ 26" bow and I shot a 604 grain laminated birch arrow).  I would guess if you shot an extreamly light arrow there would be shock, but that is going to come with any bow in that case.

Sorry , Rob I would have to disagree with everything you said in your post - it's exactly the opposite .

So what is the question?

Ben, well stated, politically correct. I would have went the other way.  :banghead:   :D  

Gingiuitiskahn:   :biglaugh:  


Earl

After 3 decades of nothing but straight handled  Hills, they will kick if you hold them wrong. Nothing to worry about however. Hold them to business & you couldn't ask for a smoother more  graceful ride. Wouldn't shoot anything else.

I have felt hand shock that was so bad it actually gave me a headache and made my bow shoulder and teeth hurt.

All that I have said to this point just proves what my dad always told me. "There's no point in being stupid if you don't show it!"

The stupid part was that I kept trying to shoot a bow that was beating the snot out of me. It dang near ruined my willingness to shoot another longbow.

That was??... I can't be positive about exactly how long ago it was but I'm guessing 30 years and I was trying to shoot an long bow made by Pearson. I think it was an "Old Ben 500"(maybe someone can either correct or verify the name), anyway I hope to find one(not to own) but just to shoot a few times. I want to know what my thoughts would be today about the reality of it's hand shock. I truly want to know, was it me or was it the bow.

I recently traded for a bow that about all I heard and read was about how "shocky" they were and I had to judge for myself(that truly is the only reason I got the bow).

The verdict from me is.. what's the beef? Maybe I just got an exceptional Jerry Hill longbow but this one is about as sweet to shoot as any bow I've had the pleasure in shooting.

If anyone gets a longbow "Hill or Hill style" that you just can't get along with because of handshock drop me a line before you send it to the burn pile, I'll gladly adopt it and give it a good home or burn it for you..lol

Sorry I got long winded.

Now I'll go back and read the thread...lol

God bless,Mudd

Nice one Jim   :thumbsup:

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Hill lover. But to say you have to "hold them correctly" to eliminate hand shock is an admission of hand shock.

Any good recurve can be shot with a light, thumb and first finger hold. On release there is virtually no jump in the bow. Nobody says you have to hold a recurve "correctly" to eliminate hand shock.

Only the Hill bow has to be held correctly. This means there is significant hand shock and the adviser is simply telling you how to handle it by some technique. Still, there is hand shock to overcome.

Hand shock is not evil and the nature of straight longbows. Just like recoil in a big gun. Understand it and ignore it. Do not feel hand shock to be a some failing of the bow design or the person shooting it. I rather think of it as a badge of honor. Real archers overcome real obstacles - we ain't no stinkin' compound shooters with everything just perfect!! lol

Jack

QuoteOriginally posted by Carbon Jack:
Don't get me wrong, I'm a Hill lover. But to say you have to "hold them correctly" to eliminate hand shock is an admission of hand shock.

No. It's an admission of incorrect technique.  

If you hold a recurve by the lower limb tip and somehow manage to shoot an arrow from it, my guess is that you will feel some degree of shock there as well.  After you've done that, find the recurve, hold it right and viola - no shock!

That doesn't mean recurves are shocky.

Same with a Hill style bow - hold it wrong and you will feel it.  Hold it right and hey presto mesto - it works right.

So How do you grip a Hill style bow?

QuoteOriginally posted by KPaul:
So How do you grip a Hill style bow?

I try to tell the folks I'm working with to hold it as if your holding hands with someone you like a lot.

It's firm but not smashing or crushing the other persons hand or fingers but not so loose as to let them slip out of your grasp.

Just my take on this one.

God bless,Mudd

Some Hill style bows have a ton, sme have practically none.

QuoteOriginally posted by KPaul:
So How do you grip a Hill style bow?

As Howard Hill himself said..."With your arm hanging down at your side, now hold the bow the same as you would carry a suitcase".  I did this, and instantly had no problems with mine from then on out.

I've had many and love them, but they are just not for me. I just shoot too much and this style of bow was causing me medical problems. It's funny how just a little different style such as a Charlie Lamb Sunbear longbow fit so differently (no shock)for me. People maybe convinced that I am making up myths, have bad form, not holding correctly, etc,etc, etc and that's fine. If it works for you peronally, I am truly happy. But, it does not mean that since it works for one it works for all.

What happens with the straight limb longbow is the limbs come forward on release and stop all at once when the string snaps back to its starting point.

All that forward motion of the limbs drives the grip forward into your fingers. Typically hand shock is manifest by a pain in the ring and pinky finger as the grip slams forward. Holding the bow loosely and allowing this grip motion to occur makes the impact worse.

To tame this forward action of the grip, you hold the grip firmly and give the grip no room to get up a head of steam. All it takes is as quarter inch or so of slop in your hold/grip to allow the grip to rush forward and smack your fingers.

So you hold firmly and control the forward thrust. Result is much less pain or discomfort. After a while the longbow shooter who holds his bow this way becomes inured to any impact or "thump" in the hand. He goes off telling others there in no hand shock. Perfectly understandable.

I only own longbows but have shot (and owned) many recurves in past years. In my experience there is no comparison between modern recurves and traditional longbows where hand shock is concerned: longbows have plenty. This shock is, however, easily handled by a good grip and a willingness to understand that hand shock is not a social disease and nothing to be ashamed of.

Jack

OK, I keep hearing people talk about the grip on a HH longbow and holding it correctly to avoid handshock. Soooo, how about one of you enlightening us and doing a tutorial on proper vs. improper grip for a HH bow. I dont own one but would like to learn what makes a difference. Thanks.

QuoteOriginally posted by leatherneck:
OK, I keep hearing people talk about the grip on a HH longbow and holding it correctly to avoid handshock. Soooo, how about one of you enlightening us and doing a tutorial on proper vs. improper grip for a HH bow. I dont own one but would like to learn what makes a difference. Thanks.

Just grab it like a roofing hammer and don't let it float around in your hand. A firm but not crushing grip. That's all there is. No straight-wristed feathery, floating grip like some target recurve shooters use.

Jack

Everyone can go too Howard Hill longbowmens website Dick has a great section on this.

Thanks Carbon Jack, and all others.  :thumbsup:
This is the kind of info. I was looking for when I posted the poll.   :campfire:

I've shot a dozen or so Hill/Hill-Style Bows. No handshock except fom one. Mud mentioned it already. I wasn't able to shoot this one without ruining my teeth. All the others I've shot had no handshock and I shot them with a Dacron-string and arrows in the lower gpp.

Not mine, 3 Northern Mist, all are as sweet as can be.

You want a really sweet shooting Hill style bow? Get your hands on a Miller all bamboo model or one of the Schulz all bamboo models.

by most folks admission that they need to be gripped correctly and to use a decent weight arrow in order to minimize or erradicate any form of 'hand shock'. which tells ya that for the very most part, hills do have some manner of 'hand shock'.  

which is my point.  they are inherently not as smooth on release as an r/d longbow.  whereas you can grip an r/d longbow most anyway you like and not have 'hand shock', this is not true for a hill style longbow.  

none-the-less, i do love the looks and historic mojo surrounding howard hill longbows, and i do shoot them as well.

Can't wait to experience the 'hand shock' first hand.Got one on the way.Long bow shooter but all min are r/d.

Rob pretty well nails it.   We are blessed with numerous styles of bows.  They shoot differently.  

Overall, generally, as a rule (have I qualified this enough?) I find that recurves shoot smoother than other bows.  They're very pleasant to shoot.  However, I find them large, heavy and awkward compared to other bows, but I don't complain about this every time I shoot one.  I have a couple of beauties... a vintage Widow and a vintage Bear.  I enjoy shooting them and won't part with them, but I don't shoot them as much because they aren't my favorites.

I find RD's are (again insert all of the qualifiers above) better performers.  I think the best technical work going into bow development today (speaking of what I consider true traditional bows, i.e. not IFL, metal riser, etc) is going on in RD's.  They're getting some incredible speed and accuracy.  Also some extremely lovely bows.  I have a couple of great ones, a Widow and a Berry and won't part with them.  I enjoy shooting them but I don't shoot them a lot because they aren't my favorites.

I have a lot of Hill styles and not just ones I built,  Craig Ekin, Ted Kramer, John Schulz and Howard himself.   I find them (please insert the qualifiers again) light and wonderful to handle, not as fast, a little tougher to master in terms of accuracy.  I love them for their lightness and ease of handling, their extra challenge, and above all because they are, to me, the tradition that I value.  I don't find them obnoxiously shocky, but there is more "feel".  For crying out loud, they weigh (qualifiers again) half or less what other bows weigh.  There are, within Hills, different classes... standard riser, forward riser, reflexed, straight and string follow.  Each has its own feel.

All of these types of bows are different.  I know I'm a lone voice here, but I think it's really unfortunate that RD's got identified as longbows.  To me, they're not the same thing at all.   They're RD's and they're wonderful bows, and they should be recognized for their own qualities and merits.  They combine some of the best of recurves and true longbows and should be valued as the development they are.

Given the variety of bows we have, it doesn't make sense to me to try a new style because it's different and then complain that it's different.  If you try something new and don't like it, or don't master it, go back to what you like but don't put it down because you didn't like it.

Hill styles are the closest we have to the original fiberglass laminated longbows of the 50's and 60's and have, rightly I think, a special place with shooters who value that tradition.   So do give them a try, but please, be fair, do it on their own terms.

OK, the grumpy old man is done....

Hill bows absolutely are shockier than most.


That's not the same thing as saying you can't tame them.  Grip changes, heavier arrows, etc.

Another Hill fan/owner here.  Also a recurve and hybrid fan/owner.  I have to agree with both Carbon Jack and Dick Wightman on this issue...Hill-style bows DO produce more vibration than R/D bows, especially those with massive risers (heavy).  The physical characteristics of that design (light, easy to tote and point, easier to feel string and limb vibration) make the question somewhat of a no-brainer, really.  BUT...if a .308 produces more vibration than a .22, and a steak is harder to chew than a peanut butter sandwich, and Budweiser kicks more than root beer, should we all start hating .308's, steaks and cold beer?  If so then count me out, dudes!

How one perceives the feel of a bow is as variable as how one perceives, well, pretty much anything compared to how someone else might see it.  It's all relative.

Yippee!  I get to disagree with Dick.  Not all Hill style bows are slower than recurves.  I have three two Schulz and one of my own tiller that are faster than my Bear takedown of the same draw weight and one yew/glass job that is lighter pull and the same cast as the Bear takedown.  As far as accuracy goes, you try to shoot them like a recurve perhaps the recurve will be more accurate, but shoot them like a longbow and the deer, rabbits and pheasants will say I am more accurate with the longbows. Although some longbows are knuckle busters, I have seen some that are not at all.  Seems the cleaner shooting ones also are the faster and more accurate of the standard reflex design. Seems to me as well that things can be done in the construction and cut to make them faster and have less bump.  But to judge a bow merely on the amount of hand bump is a ways down the list of what really counts in a good hunting bow as long as it not extreme.  However, a slight R/D shoots like a Hill style, has about the same forgiveness qualities and can do it with less shock, while putting out a nice quick arrow without as much variation from bow to bow for some reason.

"Overall, generally, as a rule (have I qualified this enough?)"

You must have missed that, Pavan!    :^)

QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
...  Not all Hill style bows are slower than recurves. ...

oh no, not at all true as long as both bows have the same true holding weight and are firing the same arrow ... pure physics.  

snaky limbs will always outperform straight or reflexed/backset limbs in terms of arrow speed.  

however, in terms of 'stability', my money's on the hill bow.

This is getting fun. Some clunky recurves are not so smooth or as fast as the real clean and lean longbows. Not just my opinion, one can go backk to the Sam fadala tests from years ago.  His reverse Schulz was faster than his Bear takedown.  Since I had both as well, my findings were the same as Sam's. Dick I did know what you were saying.  Pretty sure you have handled some clean and lean ones in your collection that were real shooters.

Imagine how bad it must've been for the poor old Indians or Mongols or English! It's a wonder any of them shot bows at all! They would've kept copping all that nasty shock, day-in, day-out.

QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
... Some clunky recurves are not so smooth or as fast as the real clean and lean longbows. ...

for the comparison to be valid, you need to compare 'like' bow types.  

pitting a ragim recurve against a david miller longbow may not be an appropriate comparison.  by the same token, neither would a blacktail recurve against an internature viper.    

there are other areas that can distort such testing, such as brace height and power stroke.

imo and for the very most part, a decent recurve will eat a decent hill-style long bow's speed lunch every time - but the recurve will lack 'stability'.  i'll take the longbow anyday, since speed don't kill, accurately placed sharp broadheads do.  :cool:

QuoteOriginally posted by Ben Kleinig:
Imagine how bad it must've been for the poor old Indians or Mongols or English! It's a wonder any of them shot bows at all! They would've kept copping all that nasty shock, day-in, day-out.

oh you guys! enuf already!  geez louise!    :laughing:  

hand shock?

the english, yes.

the indians, mostly yes, depends on what bow design, there were many.  

the mongols, nope!  those short double snaked recurves were most likely smooth shooters just like today's horse mongol bows.

look, just admit the plain fact that hill longbows are what they are - loaded with 'hand shock' - and that you CAN overcome the shock IF you want.   :D

I'm shocked by all this!!!   :bigsmyl:

I'm a fan, but all the glass backed so called "Hill" bows that I have sot had hand shock.  Talk to Jim Belcher about a true Hill longbow made by Howard and it's a different story you'll hear.

I still need to shoot David Miller's special crowned bamboo longbows.  My guess is that's gonna be one sweet shootin' bow that will but the so called "Hill" style bows to shame...  todd

Just got a Hill Wesley Special, no hand shock at all. Out of the dozen or so recurves and rd's I own this one is fast becoming one of my favorites.

M A N. . . I must be a major loser. A wanker of the first degree.

I don't hold my Hill bows any different than I hold a recurve or a compound.

I just hold them, and I just shoot them.

Have yet to feel any hand shock.

Haven't starved YET, although I am worried that if I hold my Hill bow the wrong way there won't be any more fresh meat in the freezer.

(If you believe the last part of that last statement, you are definitely holding your bow wrong.)

QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
...  Not all Hill style bows are slower than recurves. ...

oh no, not at all true as long as both bows have the same true holding weight and are firing the same arrow ... pure physics.  

snaky limbs will always outperform straight or reflexed/backset limbs in terms of arrow speed.  

however, in terms of 'stability', my money's on the hill bow. [/b]

Rob, I've yet to read a single thing you've posted I disagree with. Keep at it.

Jack

I said NO, given the overly simple parameters you've provided above.  I would go on to say that I love Hill style bows and any other straight end longbow or longbow with setback.  Hand shock is not a desirable trait of any type of bow and it is not necessarily characteristic of HH per se.  If I had a HH with "hand shock", I'd send it back to Craig for re-tillering, only after I had spent a significant amount of time tuning it to the point where I thought it was out of tiller and something should be done about it.  I've owned very sweet shooting Hill bows but again this statement is relative at best.  Shoot one bow (any type of bow) against another and you will almost always be able to say one is "smoother" than the other.  It's relative.

Kris

QuoteOriginally posted by Ben Kleinig:
Imagine how bad it must've been for the poor old Indians or Mongols or English! It's a wonder any of them shot bows at all! They would've kept copping all that nasty shock, day-in, day-out.

Them dudes would have picked up a r/d longbow quicker than they picked up winchesters!    :D

Went out and shot both of my from hill blank longbows.  They both have fast flights on them, nope, no hand shock, Well maybe just a smidge more than my Robertsons by a tiny bit and quick enough to kill anything on this continent, pound for pound maybe just an almost imperceptible twinge less than the Robertsons.  Sorry, but they both seem faster than the 53 pound 52" Ben Pearson that I took along for comparison.  That recurve must be slow, anybody want to buy it for cheap?  Just kidding kind of, I love my longbows.

honestly this shock stuff,,, to me its a hundred individuals out there with 100 different opinions of shock,, not really you guys but the thousands more who don't really shoot "hill style" and some are my friends.  

bottom line if you don't hold the bow How it wants to be held like a woman it will be shocky and tempermental,  shock to me is a few of my Osage selfbows which I love dearly but when I think any bow as shock I shoot one of those for a day and then go back to the bow with shock which is just a little vibration it's like butter..  

also do you like riding a harly or a Honda,,, because shock or what some people describe as shock to me is sometimes a good thing or something I look forward too,,   I like the feel of the bike, I like the kick or recoil of the gun, and sometimes I like the shock of the bow---> my strunk vibrates more than my big five but by the time I notice it the arrow is gonnnzzzzoooo!

The Toelke Super-D has the least amount of "shock" of any Hill style bow I have shot.  Even with "light arrows".  Forgiveness and quietness are the best qualities of a D-bow.  Grab the tip of a Recurve or even some hybrids and see how easy it is to manipulate the tip.  Now grab a hill style longbow and see if you can manipulate it.  There is your stability.  YMMV

the heavier the tips(overlays) adds to more handshock

To each his own, I guess. I have a Louis Armbruster Zebra Grevy that is pure sweetness. I've also had a Wesly Special that was like an ax handle. It was either get rid of it or use it for a tree stake. I traded it and the guy that got thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Go figure...

LD

Yep, Caddo, I love my Wesley too. Nothing like an ax handle--just trying to picture that .  It's a finely made, delicate wand of a bow and great hog killin' machine.  Like it so much I bought four more Hills.  :saywhat:  

 (http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/davidmitchell_6466/Florida%20hog%20hunt%202008/Hoghunt--Feb2008004.jpg)

Its not hand shock! Its had vibe!

QuoteOriginally posted by RC:
I never understood the handshock thing.Grip it right with a heavy arrow and enjoy. I love them.RC

I don't know enough to say yes or no. (I voted "don't know") I will say though, that I agree 100% with RC on the hand shock subject. Maybe I'm just too new and inexperienced, but I don't know that I can even say I've ever experienced hand shock. Even in the compounds I used to shoot, hand shock was never even a consideration for me.    :dunno:

Just shot my first Hill today.A redman,53#@28,68".Strung it,tuned it,shot it and loved it.First true D long bow that I have shot.Not noticing a lot of  "handshock".Loved the feel.Loved the yew limbs.I'm hooked.

IMO Hill bows need to be shot with a heeldown grip. The mass weight is so low that the bow feels more alive than a recurve, I wouldn't say handshock I'd say alive feeling. Not a bad feeling, just different.

Tomorrow   :bigsmyl:

Does anyone have an "Ol Ben" Pearson they'd consider loaning me?

I want a refresher course in "HANDSHOCK....!"...lol

Plus it'll let me know if I have any teeth that need any work done to them..lol

God bless,Mudd

QuoteOriginally posted by Mudd:
Does anyone have an "Ol Ben" Pearson they'd consider loaning me?

I want a refresher course in "HANDSHOCK....!"...lol

Plus it'll let me know if I have any teeth that need any work done to them..lol

God bless,Mudd

You just have to grip them right and they're smooth as butter!     :biglaugh:

Mudd, unless you are prepared to pay a lot to your dentist to replace fillings, don't shoot an Ol' Ben!  Now that bow does have hand shock!  The one I had would give me a headache before I got around the range with it.

Longbowben ...
does it count if its already Christmas here in Oz ?

I had one Big 5 89 pounds at my draw, that had more shock than all my others.  it was also slower than my others.  One day, it was a warm November day, the gnats were driving me crazy, so I got up to find somewhere the breeze could keep the gnats busy.  I started walking around, I got two pheasants on the wing, one rabbit sitting, one rabbit hopping away and a squirrel off a high branch.  I got to field dress five animals that day with my worst bow.  I guess there are things that count for more than a bump in the hand sometimes.

QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
I had one Big 5 89 pounds at my draw, that had more shock than all my others.  it was also slower than my others.  One day, it was a warm November day, the gnats were driving me crazy, so I got up to find somewhere the breeze could keep the gnats busy.  I started walking around, I got two pheasants on the wing, one rabbit sitting, one rabbit hopping away and a squirrel off a high branch.  I got to field dress five animals that day with my worst bow.  I guess there are things that count for more than a bump in the hand sometimes.

Pavan, I agree with the bump in the hand comment. It never bothered me and I don't take it as a failing of the bow design.

I have a 90 pound bow built by Craig for me. It's red elm and 66 inches long. No longer at my age can I effectively shoot that thing but 20 years ago it would shoot heavy wooden arrows at 190fps through my chronograph. It did thump your hand and I loved it. Now in my early 50s I only shoot 55-60 pounds and use lighter arrows. I still enjoy a bit of "thump".

Jack

I shot Hill styles for several seasons and the only time I noticed handshock was when the brace height was off.  Once I got the brace height dialed in and the proper arrow used, I feel absolutley no hand shock.  Just a smooth, quiet thump on release. Guys need to get the bow tuned and shoot the correct spine and weight arrows with Hill bows,,, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER BOW!  Steve

I missed the Hills so much I sold my other bows and went back to my Hills,, for good this time!  Truly a very efficient hunting weapon.  I had to experiment with everything else to get a true perspective on it.  Once I had enough experiences with the other styles, I felt I had enough first hand experience to decide the Hills were the way to go for me.  Steve

My first chance to shoot a Hill was today im impressed hard hitting.It has more handshock that my MOABs but i love it, now watch out does next week im looking for you.  :archer2:

Merry christmas Ben , and a happy new bow !!!!!

Thanks Gerardo same to you.

Thanks for all the replys this was a good poll.   :thumbsup:

Built right, a 7-8gpp arrow, with a dacron string, will only give a mild "thump," not a "shock" at the shot.  10-12gpp?? and FF just too "tame it," probably too much backset for you.
Straight limbs that slightly follow the string are quite a different animal than a bow that reflexes right off the riser to over an inch at the tips.

QuoteOriginally posted by Mudd:
Does anyone have an "Ol Ben" Pearson they'd consider loaning me?

I want a refresher course in "HANDSHOCK....!"...lol

Plus it'll let me know if I have any teeth that need any work done to them..lol

God bless,Mudd

I used to shoot a 72lb Ol Ben.  The routine was 20 minutes of shooting, 2 tylenol and an ice pack!

Oh wait a minute, NOW I see what the problem is...this 'handshock' thing you guys are getting with your Hills.  It's actually an easy fix.  Your 'handshock' is quite likely the result of improper shock dispersion (linearly speaking) of the vibration qualities inherent to the inferior hyperbolic polymers/tension materials often used in the projectile, which directly and negatively affect the dampening and bending coefficients present.  Secondary repercussions can be very significant.  UNLESS the xylem and phloem centercores are 1.) present and 2.) of adequate weight and stiffness to compliment the draw weight specs, the end result is poor vibrational synergy...often referred to as 'Girly-Mun Syndrome' (Whiney & Softt et. al, 1957).

Simply put, use heavy WOOD arrows and you won't have problems.  

     :readit:        :saywhat:        :thumbsup:        :biglaugh:

The longer the bow the more likely to give shock.  Grip is a big factor in reducing the effects of shock.

Both of which are how to migitate shock.  

Proving that yes, Hills do have handshock.    :biglaugh:

Your 'handshock' is quite likely the result of improper shock dispersion (linearly speaking) of the vibration qualities inherent to the inferior hyperbolic polymers/tension materials often used in the projectile, which directly and negatively affect the dampening and bending coefficients present. Secondary repercussions can be very significant. UNLESS the xylem and phloem centercores are 1.) present and 2.) of adequate weight and stiffness to compliment the draw weight specs, the end result is poor vibrational synergy...often referred to as 'Girly-Mun Syndrome'

Yea, thats what I said!

GIRLY-MAN SYNDROME   :laughing:    :laughing:    :laughing:

. . . I think I just spewed coffee out my nose!

Chas nailed it with the simplest of explanations!

GMS

(Rhymes with PMS)

quote:

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Originally posted by greyghost:

Gingiuitiskahn:    :bigsmyl: