Here is a scenario..it's late Dec. two deer come within range. I adult doe with a yearling/fawn. Which one should you shoot?
I have always been taught to shoot the adult doe (probably b/c there is more meat to be had).
But, I have been rethinking this...and now I am thinking it might be better to shoot the yearling b/c the adult doe is probably bred. Plus, the fawn's has a less chance of surviving the winter.
I would love to hear what TG's opinion is on this
chris <><
I would probably shoot the mature doe. I am out for meat and she would give me more. One study i read said that the fawns of does that were killed had a higher long term survival rate. However if it is a hard winter the fawn would be more likely to perish than the mature doe. I guess it would come down to which one gave me the first best shot.
I would shoot the adult doe....I say this because where I am at, we need to shoot more does (have a lot of them) and she would give me much more meat. Down here the fawn will survive unless another hunter takes it (man or animal). The best shot would factor in too. And the size of the fawn. I have killed fawns this time of year that were 90 lbs. Plenty big enough for a fawn.
Depends on your deer herd.
If the population is too high, shoot the doe.
If the population is good, shoot the fawn.
If the population is low, shoot neither
honestly, this time of year, it would be whichever deer presented a good shot first...
"In range" doesn't necessarily mean that they've given you a good shot opportunity...
There's different biological arguments for taking one or the other, but by now I'm going to be looking for the first shot...
Can you tell I've not killed a deer yet this year? :rolleyes:
In a predators eyes, wouldn't the fawn be dinner? I would have no qualms going for the fawn. Tender meat, and would make a pretty throw rug or quiver....Phil
I would let the adult walk. Here in NH deer densities are not high so the actual number of deer is important. Whether or not I took either one would depend on how successful I had been up to that point. If you shoot the mature doe and she is carrying twins, and the fawn succumbs to winter you have actually killed four deer.
I've also read that fawns can be bred during the second rut resulting in inferior genetics in the herd. True or not ? I don't know. I guess for me it would boil down to shot opportunity. Little ones are some good meat. For me it always boils down to last minuet decision of instinct.
Keeping the Faith!
Magnus
I agree with no-sage, and that's what I do.
Depends of where you hunt.Doe/buck ratio etc.
I would shoot both. I havent killed one this year yet.
Just kidding.
Where I am I will shoot the adult doe. We don't have a winter kill and we have way to many does.
Where I hunt in PA we have very high numbers, however in the past few years a few guys in our group have been consistently killing "many" mature does and passing on the yearlings. This year we saw a considerable decrease in the number of deer on the property. If you continue to take the mature does from the herd you will eventually feel the effects.
The yearlings are the easiest to replace. The mature does know the best hiding spots, the best areas to winter and the location of the food sources when winter gets bad. A happy balance seems to always work well.
I'm thinking like Tim. We have seen a marked decrease in deer numbers on the few private properties I am able to hunt. I'm sure its for a variety of reasons, but we have stopped shooting does this year. The landowners want them killed but my agenda is slightly different than theirs.
Ditto what Bill said. Here in NY where I hunt the herd numbers are low. I would let the adult doe walk, and maybe take the fawn if I needed meat and the shot was right.
Most likely neither. Definitely not the fawn.
If they were equally good shots, I would take the biggest one. Unless I had to drag a long way, then the pocket meat gets it. After you shoot hte adult, it is sometimes very easy to bleat the fawn back into range especially if the doe dies closeby. We have lots and lots of deer though.
Here in south ark, winter kill is not even a factor(unless the 1/8" annual snowfall takes some out) and deer density is high so i would probably try for the adult first but i wouldnt hesitate to take the fawn if it looked like that was going to be my only opportunity
QuoteOriginally posted by magnus:
I've also read that fawns can be bred during the second rut resulting in inferior genetics in the herd. True or not ? I don't know. I guess for me it would boil down to shot opportunity. Little ones are some good meat. For me it always boils down to last minuet decision of instinct.
Keeping the Faith!
Magnus
Not true. Genetics do not change with age.
Dusty
Around here its a management issue. I would definitely shoot the doe first and then hope the yearling stood there long enough for me to get an arrow in it as long as it wasn't a button buck.
If it were a buck yearling I have heard (but am not sure) that if its mother is taken out it will tend to stay in the area for years to come.
The correct answer for you is all dependent on your local herd.
I always shoot the "volunteer"; the one that gets closest and gives me a calendar pose. You know, a broadside shot you can't miss.
Jack
We have way too many does where I hunt. I am shooting the big one.
no sage nailed it
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I had that situation the other night...a yearling that basically was giving me a slam dunk shot with a big, fat doe behind her. I passed the yearling and the OLD long-nosed doe made me, snorted and blew every deer outa there. My answer: Kill the smart, old doe and let the dumb yearling stay around for next year. We don't have bad winters here and most yearlings are gonna live. Now if that old doe gets near me again, she gets a ride back home :)
for me I shoot the doe or nothing. i just cant bring myself to shoot babies
Depends Does the fawn look chunky or a little boney? I'm not saying that you look at it and all You see is ribs.. Just a thin looking deer.
If it's chunky looking take the Mommy.
If it looks thin take the Young'en
What no-sage said sound good, but some times we have to be as cruel like Mother Nature. This doesn't mean to be heartless or disrespectful to the game We hunt, But to be helpful to the Land and to Nature it's self.
Plus them young'en sure are Tasty.........
this time of year I consider the adult doe to be three deer, so I take the fawn.Our population is down around here.
This happened to me on Sunday. 2 fawns come out with adult doe following. Passed on the 10 yd fawn shot thinking the doe would follow. Nope she hung up at 30 +yds turned around and went back and the fawns moved out. Next time first opportunity, which ever it might be.
depends on 2 things:
1. whichever one gives the better shot.
2. What my goals for the herd/freezer are.
Last day of NY muzzleloading/late archery (this past Sunday for me) at sunset I had a little "roundhead" yearling and an adult doe in range and an antlerless tag in my wallet. I let them both live and said "Merry Christmas" out loud causing Ma to bolt and the little one to tag along.
If I had shot Ma the little sprout would probably have been coyote food. And I wasn't going to shoot a tiny 50 or 60 pound deer and let Ma live. I'm not starving.
I already had a doe from regular season, so I let them both go. So there's your answer: neither.
shoot the little one.unless you need the meat.more likely the big doe is pregnat.you would be killing two if you shoot the big one.
If you have several deer in the freezer, think about your next move, but if you haven't shot one yet this year, shoot the first one that allows a good shot.
ChuckC
I've often thought about this same scenario. Don't know for sure what I would do.
But, I DO know that that young doe would be very tender!
I am going to second, or third, whatever we are up to now, what no-sage said.
I feel I would shoot the fawn,less likely to make it thru a hard winter....but, with the shot opportunities I get the first one that gives me a good shot is getting some cedar!!!
I haven't read thru this entire thread yet, but I believe I've orphaned enuf fawns. Anymore I don't shoot a doe with fawns. I figure the kid needs mom around to teach it how to live and survive and look up into trees. If I feel the need to shoot one of them, it will be the fawn. What is worse, a mom without a kid or a kid without a mom?
Fairly often, I will see a matriarch doe, a yearling doe and some fawns together. In that case the yearling doe is my focus, but if she gets past me, Bambi better look out.
Quite often it seems that we talk about fawns and yearlings as the same thing, but they are not. Just like any other critter, deer aren't yearlings until they are one year old; about 1.5 years in hunting season. Fawns are last spring/summer's kids. They lost their spots when their winter coat came on, but they're still fawns.
I have one ring of deer bologna left then I'm out of venison. If it's brown and offers me a shot, it's going home with me.
Late season meat? I shoot whichever gives me the best chance first.
I would shoot the adult doe. I have processed a yearling doe that my son had shot and one that I hit with my truck and there just is not enough meat to justify the harvest.
which ever decided to present a good shoot at a reasonable distance first.
I would take the first, best shot presented.
Tim, hit the nail on the head.
QuoteOriginally posted by Tim:
Where I hunt in PA we have very high numbers, however in the past few years a few guys in our group have been consistently killing "many" mature does and passing on the yearlings. This year we saw a considerable decrease in the number of deer on the property. If you continue to take the mature does from the herd you will eventually feel the effects.
The yearlings are the easiest to replace. The mature does know the best hiding spots, the best areas to winter and the location of the food sources when winter gets bad. A happy balance seems to always work well.
That was my exact thoughts Tim. If too many mature does are taken on a regular basis, your herd structure will eventually get out of wack. It happened on a private lease we had and not because of us taking too many mature does, but the guys who hunted all around us. After several years of killing the crap out of big mature does and passing on yearlings......we began seeing stunted deer. Medium sized does with either zero fawn production or 1 ultra tiny fawn that looked sickly. It wasn't a very pleasant experience to have that happen to an otherwise awesome piece of property.
On the other hand, if there are an over abundance of does in the area then take whichever one presents the best shot.......or like Dwill said, shoot both. It doesn't hurt to take out some of the big does, but just don't over do it.
I only got 1 deer this year and it was a 3 1/2 yr. old 8pt. so I'm still hunting for a doe.......preferrably a small tender one for steaks. In my case, I'd shoot the yearling and let the big doe walk. If the yearling didn't give me a shot then I guess I'd have to pass on both?
That's just me and there's not an over abundance of deer where I'm at......so it's a totally different decision for me.
Ethics has nothing to do with the decision, either one would be great freezer fodder........but herd dynamics does have everything to do with it.
I'd shoot the first one that presented the shot I wanted. And if the other hangs around, I'd shoot it too if I had tags and it was legal.
Most herds need balancing with antlerless harvest.
My old hunting partners said I had the first arrow in the air every time.
Mike
I would shoot the yearling doe, thats exactly what I did this week. I passed a mature doe and harvested a yearling doe. I knew if I took the Mature doe I would be taking two or three deer from my hunting area for next year.
Yes macksdad, I think that is somewhat, the answer!
As a cattle farmer, would you shoot your breeding Heffers? Do you want to sustain the herd, or elinminate it? Strengthen what, the size of the bucks, or the ratio?
Really, what is the intent, hunger? In a day that "Managing" the herd is the Thing to Do!
We have more than 40 deer per mile in my county. Even first year dow fawns (50%)will produce fawns next year. Before September 1st the fawns are weaned and don't need the doe for survival. If the doe is left with her button bucks deep into the season she will drive them off, often out of her home range as one of nature's way to disperse the gene pool.
If I were in an area where I wanted the deer herd to grow I would leave the adult doe because she will average twins in a growing herd. If lots of your adult does have twin or triplet fawns this is indication your herd is under carrying capacity and can stand more deer. If most adult does have only singles, biological controls have set in to reduce your deer herd.
In my opinion, any legal deer taken as a result of ethical decisions is an honorable result for a hunter.
In years past I would say the mature doe. Numbers are way down in my area so right now it's mature single doe or buck of any size. I'm not a trophy hunter so rack size is of no concern to me. I will not however waste my single tag on a fawn, we only get one tag in my area so not wasting it on the little ones, well unless it's real late in season:)'
QuoteI adult doe with a yearling/fawn. Which one should you shoot?
Which is it - a fawn or a yearling (last years fawn?
1 tag, I shoot the doe.
2 tags I shoot both if the 2nd one - fawn or yearling - hangs around.
No difference shooting a doe early or late - most all healthy does are going to be bred.
the mature doe! that yearling doe will be the one caring the dads genes!! not saying that the dad is a huge buck but maybe if she has a male off spring he could be the next generation of your big buck!!
I want to re answer. My last answer was a smart ass answer!
Since I have never shot a deer with the bow, The first good shot gets it. :readit:
Since I have not taken a deer this year it would be the first to give me a good shot or the largest if both offered shots. It would also mean my first harvest with trad bow.
Her in SW Pa our overall numbers are low so I havent shot a doe in a few years. But typically I would shoot the adult doe.
The last time I hunted the late season here in PA I had a mature doe and yearling come in on the last day in -15 Deg. temps. The yearling was 5 yds. away and the mother 25. I stupidly shot at the mother and shot right under her. Next time the yearling goes home with me!
QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB:
QuoteI adult doe with a yearling/fawn. Which one should you shoot?
Which is it - a fawn or a yearling (last years fawn? [/b]
I have the same question, Steve. Fawns and yearlings are not the same thing and it is confusing and misleading to call fawns "yearlings".
I try not to shoot anything still on the teet. but if it is on its own then take the doe.
I would likely shoot the fawn. We have such hard winters in Canada and the snow is so deep and the coyote population is so high that the fawn without the doe wouldn't likely make it through the winter.
Thanks for all the thoughts! I did not mean to miss lead with the yearling/fawn terminology.
I meant was a fawn.
I guess for me, it would determine what my freezer situation looked like, and where I was hunting. High deer population I would probably shoot the doe, low population the fawn.
It would also depend on my mood...sometimes in the woods, I just don't feel like shooting anything (usaully this happens when my freezer is full), I am out b/c I just LOVE to be in the woods!
thanks again for all responses. Good discussion!
chris <><
For a many years in WI. we would never shoot our breeding does and always shoot the yearlings because of the survival rate in winter. Then I read a good article that you should shoot the older does simply to improve the genetics. Kind of like people every generation tends to get a little bigger and stronger. We were actually suppressing the next generation of bucks.
QuoteOriginally posted by longbowman:
The last time I hunted the late season here in PA I had a mature doe and yearling come in on the last day in -15 Deg. temps. The yearling was 5 yds. away and the mother 25. I stupidly shot at the mother and shot right under her. Next time the yearling goes home with me!
That brings another scenario.
Sometimes I'm just too cold to want to deal with dead deer. I've let them walk on that excuse many times.