After reading several threads on Cabela's Wooltimate I order the jacket and pants at a great price and waited for it's arrival. It came in today and here is my initial impressions 1. Packaged well for shipment and delivery was fast (about 7 days). 2. Seems to be well constructed although I haven't hunted in it yet. 3. The fit was larger than what I had expected, I'm a typical Large and the jacket is quite a bit oversized. 4. Although I havn't hunted in it, I can tell it will be a warm jacket. 5. It is not as quiet as made to believe in others comments.
My opinion of course but I was expecting it to be a lot quieter. In fact I find the noise factor a deal breaker for the close quarter I have to work in my neck of the woods.
Now i'm not trying to start an online battle to those who really like it, just giving a first hand review of just my first impressions.
Also because i'm still looking for that "Holy Grail" in clothing, Warm, Quiet, and Not Bulky.
For those who have tried both Wooltimate and Sitka Gear or some other product that has these qualities can you give a Pro vs Con type of review?
I am ordering the outfitter fleece with windshear. I have not found anything warmer. My buddy has a set, and you run one layer of under armour under it and your good to go however cold it gets here in MS. The windshear is phenomenal. Best stuff that I have used. He got rid of his King of the Mountain after getting his windshear.
Spur, the Wooltimate has the windshear and it is noisy to my ears. Do you think the fleece is any quieter?
fleece is way Quieter fer sure i use it all the time when i do go hunting. and whats more it is warm. :thumbsup:
My wife bought me a really nice Woolrich wool coat.I absolutely loved it;BUT.the lining was so noisey it would spook deer as I drew my bow.Being the wonderful person she is,she removed the lining and replaced it with fleece!Way better!And oh so friendly and warm.
I agree with Jeff B. I have lots of wool that is quiet, but it doesn't have any liner to it. The fleece is so much quieter, and has that windstopping liner. Just my opinion. I have worn my old Mossy oak fleece with liner out so I have to get some new. I like the outfitter camo alot. It looks more trad.
you guys are lucky we cant get good fleece here. i got mine when i was over in 2007 and its still hanging in there.
Spur so your saying that the Fleece with the same windshear liner as the Wooltimate is quieter?
Just recieved my Wooltimate jacket (waiting on the pants)in High Plains. I don't feel like a big dark blob with this style camo. Having really never owned anything wool my first impression was that it was too thin. I'm only used to thinking that bulky = warmth. Haven't noticed the noise yet. Can't wait to try it all on hunting!.... Phil
Browning makes some super nice cloths. I got a set of Browning Pursit clothing, it's very quiet,no burrs and very rain and wind proof. The cloth is almost like a diving suits material but tougher, the best part is the camo does not fade when washed. They claim it's scent proof, but I still have deer bust me down wind. The price is the only bad part, but I just ended my third season, so it was well worth the money, and my wife says I hunt way to much. I usually hunt 60 to 70 days a year, so I can vouch for its' toughness. Chad
Chad, is the Browning line similar to the Sitka?
Good topic because I struggled with the same thing. I would bulk up on clothes but couldn't draw my bow comfortably.
Best I found was a plain old down filled jacket and snow pants worn under an oversized long sleeve t-shirt/pants or coveralls. The outer layer will quiet down the nylon shell of the coat. The nylon will protect you from wind and dries quickly.
Costs WAY less than expensive wool outfits. Here I am with some Predator snow camo coveralls and underneath is a Wally World coat/snow pants. Good for temps in the single digits for 6-8 hrs.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g128/ad2877/0064.jpg)
I've never been around the Sitka gear. I love the Browning Pursuit stuff. The outfit cost $400. But I have seen it alot cheaper now.
I have a set of rivers west bibs and jacket and it is super quiet and very warm, not to mention 100% water proof. the down side is the cost and the fact that it won't breathe
having tried most of the high tech materials out there i seem to gravitate back towards wool. And you dont need the pricey 400$ camo wool either. check out the wool that Teresa Asbel makes. I have found that in real cold temps your base layer is as important as the outter layer...you need something that will wick moisture. wool, man has tried to beat a fiber that mother nature has made...not gonna happen.
also, you should check out the swanndri wool from new zealand. Paul Brunner sold it back when he owned screaming eagle. tighest woven wool clothing i have seen, the wind didnt penetrate it.
I start out with good long underwear, the best I have found is from carol davis sportswear. Then I use a fleece shirt, with a cabelas wool winshear sweater with my KOM bowhunters jacket. I'm good for all season with this set up.
I've personally never noticed an issue with noise with the wooltimate. Mine is soft and quiet. I've killed numerous deer while wearing it in the past couple years all very close, one nice buck at about 10 yards on the ground. I did carefully wash mine according to the instructions after I got it to remove any odors, I don't know if that made a difference, but it might be something to try. I've tried a bunch of stuff and this is the best stuff I've found so far. Some of the real high end wool may be warmer, but I've never gotten cold in this stuff here in Illinois. I've tried on the Sitka stuff too and it just wasn't my cup of tea.
QuoteOriginally posted by pete p:
having tried most of the high tech materials out there i seem to gravitate back towards wool. And you dont need the pricey 400$ camo wool either. check out the wool that Teresa Asbel makes. I have found that in real cold temps your base layer is as important as the outter layer...you need something that will wick moisture. wool, man has tried to beat a fiber that mother nature has made...not gonna happen.
Agreed 100%. I too kept coming back to wool. After picking up a set of KOM hillbilly bibs on the auction site and a solid grey KOM bowman jacket I'm set. Only problem I'm finding now is keeping my neck, feet and hands warm without bulk. Mostly feet. Once my feet get cold, my day is done.
Longhunter wool shirt. It is quiet, not bulky and very warm! A good priced American made shirt!
Check Shrew Bows website.
QuoteOriginally posted by katie:
Longhunter wool shirt. It is quiet, not bulky and very warm! A good priced American made shirt!
Check Shrew Bows website.
+1 to that. Straight up wool for me but if you find that Holy Grail garment, you danged well better tell us about it. :D
1. Use a raglan style cut with the bulk(needed to move) in the back and not in the breast area(all Cabelas, Bass Pro etc. is not made with this kind of cut)
Leave the shirts/jackets longer, best mid upper thigh to knee
p.e. graywolf woolens outfitter line uses this kind of cut
2. Buy top quality: cashmere,merino or loden fabric (no it is not $5/yard)...
3. Sew yourself, so you can accomodate to your figure, movement style, pocket position etc.
Before you cut the expensive fabric, sew up a mock garment out of some cheap cheese cloth and check for fit and movement
4. for ultimate warmth get a quivit vest or pullover
5. use a thin windshear layer
6. If you use coarser wool(like the one ron la clair uses, then use fine and soft merino or cashmere on the cuffs and around the neck area. That will not be scratchy in sensitive skin areas, even if you sweat or wipe sweat off your head..
Roland, i like your ideal. Have you made a jacket/coat yourself? Can you post pic's? What is a raglan cut?
I just received some wooltimate pants and right off washed them in a machine and tumbled dry. They are absolutely quite. I mean no noise. Ive used KOM and Swandri and would say the wooltimate will be warmer because of the wind stopper. I too have alot of sitka and its not for sittin in cold tree stands.
Preston,
Was the wooltimate noisy prior to washing? Perhaps the wash will make the different. Mine are absolutely noisy with the liner. The jacket/pants rustle when I move in any fashion.
John,
To be honest I really dont remember. I opened them, tried them on and washed them so I could wear them that afternoon. I think I surely would have noticed the noise if they were. FYI the wooltimate is more bulky than KOM, but not so bulky to cause a problem. I dont think sitka will help you but I here the Kelvin vest and jacket are pretty warm. One of my best investments was the ulfrotte (wool power) underwear. I bought some for a moose hunt in Alaska 10 years ago and its WARM. I have worn the heck out of it every year and its still going.Its ok next to the skin and traps air real well. Hope this helps
Thanks, The Wooltimate I got was order large but it is quite a bit larger than normal. Does the Wooltimate shrink any during the first washing?
I agree with Tecum-tha about that raglan cut. Not having a seam over the shoulder makes for a much more comfortable cut for maneuvering your arms. Plus eliminating that seam helps keep water at bay.
I was lucky enough to purchase a wool "Swannie" (Swanndri) jacket from Paul Brunner when he owned Screaming Eagle. It has drop shoulders with a full gusset under the arms which gives me incredible arm and shoulder manueverability. It is cut long and has a two-way zipper so you can squat down without blowing it out. Mine is in a Skyline pattern that blends in like deer hide.
I believe you can still get it as Swanndri still makes it although maybe not in camo any more. Be aware that the sizing seems to run a size small so be sure to ask about that. Because the "Swannie" jacket has such a thin, tight weave it's perfect for layering over any bulky, lofty, garments you use for insulation while protecting you from snow and rain. Again just get it big enough.
I have had KOM and Sleeping Indian products as well as Filson and the Swanndri wool blows those first two away from a quality, tight weave point of view and is at least the quality of Filson. Try it you won't be dissappointed. wulf
Natural Gear is wind proof, warm and quiet. The price is right and it's not "bubba sized" either, a large is a large like it should be. I don't wear camo often preferring old wool army pants, plaid shirt and vest but when the temps drop below freezing, the NG bibs and pull over come out and I'm comfortable sitting for hours.
Beavertail vest from KOM, above whatever you want and bibs,can make you confortable everywhere in the world and no wind will pass through.
With all due respect to other posters. But anything wool or fleece with wind stopper you can hear on those cold frosty mornings with no wind .People who tell you different are hunting where the wind is blowing. I sold the Cabelas berber fleece pullover due to this. I wear the Cabelas wooltimate bibs for tree stand hunting. BUT my legs and body aren't moving when I draw from a tree stand .I wear a fleece or wool pullover on the top with a base layer or 2 under everything. Fleece hat with a heavy neck gaiter. Quite as a church mouse . Anything with windstopper around your chest ,shoulders and arms should be avoided due to the SWISHING noise it makes when drawing a bow. Again with respect to other posters this is what I have found after 36 years bowhunting spooky whitetails in the east.
Good Huntin'
Jack
I have tried the Sitka gear. Way overpriced for what you get. Also not fire resistant....don't ask!
I'm new to Sitka Gear this year because I found a very strong discount. I've bought WAY TOO MUCH camo over the years and still have most of it (tubs and tubs). I won't be buying any other brand for some time now. I love the zip-front T, the stratus bibs, and the polyester-filled jacket. I don't have a pair of pants yet though. I have many other pants that I like and that work just fine. I like the new woodland pattern but I don't think it matters to the beasts I hunt -- I could hunt in my fleece PJs and do as well I'm sure (but I wouldn't "feel" as deadly).
The only thing I'd like to find would be old-style Predator in the uninsulated cotton coveralls. I called the company and they stopped making it more than two years ago.
Try Predators 380gram fleece with windstop, the windstop they use is dead quite have the pants and vest, when I layer it with my asbell wools I am warm and quite, bought the pants for $90 and vest was 50ish, the jacket is only $90 as well, don't know what they use for there windstop but it is quite, and warm. Todd
During the late Elk season this year it was around 5 degrees with out wind snow on the ground I was waring my wooltimate with base layers and the snow made all the noise I could drew my buy move and the wooltimate made no noise. I also washed it right after I got it.
DAVE
I was looking at the Swandri line of wool jackets and bush shirts last night and they look good but there color selection are limited to one or two patterns. No camo was offered. Anyone know where to find some in more of the neutral tones?
South MS Bowhunter, My Wooltimate jacket is a 2x and I think the jackets are cut pretty generously. The pullover and pants seem to run normal. I've washed and dried mine several times, but only in cold water and on very low heat and not had any noticeable shrinkage. I would have to believe washing and drying them or any wool on a higher temp would likely cause them to shrink. I am lucky that they have a retail location about 30 miles away so I can try things on beforehand.
A trick I like is a fleece vest as a layer so you don't bulk up the arms.
Another for cold feet is the little toe warmers they sell now. I don't wear them to walk in but take the boots off and apply them on stand. They work wonders.
A neck gaiter is a great way to keep your neck warm.
The last tip to "unbulk" yourself is to use a chest protector over your outer layer to hold everything close. I use mine I used back in the 60s and 70s in tournament shooting.
Reddoge that last tip is a good one, I try to put my hunter safety system vest on last for just that reason. It really helps especially if your like me and a little bulky there already :bigsmyl:
I had browning Hydrofleece for years when I gun hunted and wore Patagonia Capilene midlayers under it. Very warm. I added Under Armour base layers and did not like that.
Now, I'm sold on the CUT and FORM of Sitka Gear and have bought a ton of it and SOLD a ton of it too. I love the now integrated wind blocker layer and don't notice much noise. I do get cold though as I'm really lean. Late season, I'll be trying a doubled up mid layer with the Kelvin top and bottoms under my outer layer of Stratus. I also want to try merino wool base layers, as that seems to be the warmest out there.
So my Sitka clothing system is:
Core base layer (don't know if I like it yet, cut is weird)
Traverse mid layer
Kelvin insulated jacket and pants if sub 30F midlayer
Stratus bibs and jacket outer layer
Stratus hat and Traverse balaclava
Stratus gloves
Smartwool merino socks and a sock liner
I don't find it bulky, but for stationary hunting not sure if it's the warmest stuff. It's designed with the mountain hunter in mind who has to move a lot, and shed perspiration and excess heat quickly. I'm intrigued by the Incinerator lineup from Sitka for goose down warmth. We'll see. I think the multiple thin mid layer approach and merino base is the way to go. Sitka founder Jason Hairston has a new company named KUIU and he's taking the Sitka concept all the way. Merino base layers are the foundation of the system he's designing.
Don't forget with Sitka you need rain protection too.
I noticed no shrinkage when I washed and dried the pants.
I am a noise freak too. . .
Nothing beats plain wool or fleece, but if you do want windstop- realize not all wind-stop is the same!
The Predator brand camo, in fleece with their windstop, is the best I have found. I wore it last winter in those dead quiet cold nights and it made NO noise! NONE! Perfect. Anything else I tried (like Cabelas stuff) all made noise. As stated too- it is VERY fleecy/warm and quite affordable.
Lastly- I DO NOT want to wear a safety harness to compress the bulk- that defeats the purpose. I like lots of dead air space.
Dan in KS
I have military spec thermals for base, then athletic sweat pants, longsleve camo shirt, camo sweatshirt, insulated bibs and a Columbia wool jacket from Gander Mnt. I never get cold in temps in the low teens to low 30's. The wool jacket is kinda bulky but only because its my dads(xxl) and I wear a M or L.
No cotton! Ditch those sweatpants, sir!
Dan, Who makes the gear your talking about?
Dan good luck on the compression of air space vs being safe. tom
I bought a Cabelas Wooltimate jacket last year. It was kind of noisy when I first got it but after wearing it a while and a few washes I don't notice it making any noise. I have been happy with it. I just ordered the pants last week.
I've bought lots of the expensive camos out there and I like the Cabelas wolltimate the best so far. Filmed and shot deer within 20 yards, moved around plenty and didn't have a problem with noise.
How is the Day One wind lining for noise?
First light merino wool is pretty nice stuff. You can get it in several camo patterns including asat. I'm eager to try it in the heat next year. Wool wicks and doesn't feel clammy when you sweat. I suspect it will be more comfortable in hot weather than cotton.
All those big bulky layers provide for a soft landing when you fall out of the tree! But just in case, I wear my harness underneath. The cloth isn't what keeps you warm, it's the air it traps. I find my bino harness helps keep loose fabric out of the way without squishing all the air out.
I'm a noise freak when it comes to December whitetails. The best wool/lining combo is from Gray Wolf Woolens. I've used their lined wool pullover in dead calm 0 degree MI December hunts and had no trouble with it and noise. It's expensive, but the best I've used.
Another trick I've used is this. I use a HSS safety harness. I wear this under my outer clothes of which sometimes I wear an old Cabela's "windblocker" sweatshirt. It's an extremely tight weave of polyester that's as quiet as any wool that I've ever used (I don't know if they even make it anymore, bought it in the early 90's). I wear a smart wool long underwear turtleneck under the saftey vest. In the safety vest pockets I slip a couple of the chemical hand warmer pouches and to the back of my turtleneck collar I attach one of the toe warmers with the sticky backing, and my fleece neck gator goes over that. I've sat in 20 degree temps with 15 mile an hour winds with that setup for 3 1/2 hours in total comfort. I buy the warmers in bulk and it costs me about $2-3 per hunt to use, but I get away with 1-2 layers less than I used to wear and it makes drawing the bow so much more comfortable. The neck patch wamer makes such a difference in my opinion, along with the fleece gator which pulls up over my face.
Harness is UNDERNEATH the clothes! Dead air space is what traps the warmth (think fluffed up down- why does it work?).
Predator has its own site. Lots of the stuff has sold here on tradgang. Very affordable. I actually bought the Predator coat from a fellow trad-ganger.
Also- First Lite is pricey but seems like it has a good idea. I have a sweater. Not convinced it is serious cold clothes- but moderate, active, etc. it may be the ticket. They are redesigning the pants though because they just do not fit right. The new ones will be out in early summer. Wait until then.
Dan in KS
Pretty obvious tip here, but I know that I, for one, tend to miss the obvious stuff. You can get a number of hunts out of those heat packs if you put them in a ziploc sandwich bag when you don't need them and at the end of the hunt. Oxygen is needed, and they don't get much if you're not fidgeting or moving. The first time I used them (negative temps, incidentally) I nearly had a stroke when I moved my stand.
When it's really windy, I carry in a light nylon camo kiddie sleeping bag. It actually says "GI Joe" on it, for which I've taken considerable and well-deserved grief. I've been meaning to have a seamstress add some suspenders to it so I can stand up and shoot without it falling down.
In terms of shooting a bow, I've found I can wear a lighter upper if I take care of my lower 2/3rds. A mid-weight anorak/pullover, neck protection, and a heavy hat do it for me.
John,
I have one custom made woolfskin set of pants and a shirt. I am currently waiting to get my pattern folder in my last moving package from Germany. I already have gray high quality loden fabric for a new shirt. I will use gall-bladder black ink to put a stick n limbs pattern on it.
A real quiet windstopper is braintan buckskin.
I have the raglan cut pattern as a CAD file somewhere on my folders. I can accomodate to almost any size I want (smaller for early season, larger for colder times of the year).
I haven't found a source of high quality wool/cashmere etc. fabric in the US yet. My stuff came from a german fabric outlet, but I think it is closed now. I have to check...
QuoteOriginally posted by JockC:
How is the Day One wind lining for noise?
Zero noise. I have the insulated wool with windstop parka and bibs and just the plain wool western shirt/jacket. No difference between the two, it's totally silent.
I prefer wool in really could weather
right now I use Teresa Asbells wool pullover with an extra wool sweater under and some thick wool trousers with an extra wool under wear under. This can keep the could out here in Norway at my place it`s cold but this sure helps. It fits teh body and can I can easily shoot with this clothes.
In the autumn hunting or if I`m in the mountain riding the horses I use leather trousers and a leather pullover! It`s warm, quiet and windproof.
It fits the body and easy to shoot with!
Try it and you will like it.
Margly
JockC's tip is a great one (put handwarmers in a zip-loc bag to shut out oxygen and you may get more than one day out of them). You can do even better if you then put the bag in your freezer. If I recall chemistry 101 correctly, rates of chemical reaction are reduced by about half for each 10 degree celsius reduction in temperature.
Wow, I'm even stingier than you guys, I use an insulated muff to keep my hands warm in, and that way I only use one of those hand warmers. :-)
Ok guys some have mention the predator line of clothe and i have looked at their site and also GWW. New question since I do live in the south and will do most of hunts here would fleece be a good choice and would you get the liner? Somebody sell me on it please!
I've had Day One Predator camo and ditched ALL of it......cheap.
Alex give the pro cons please,thanks
It's unfortunate that Cabelas doesn't give an accurate sizing warning on the Wooltimate gear. I read the reviews especially the negative ones and it was apparent that it ran large so I ordered down a size and it fits perfectly. I wonder if the over-sizing can contribute to noise because I haven't found it to be an issue.
take a look at Ron LaClair's recent post.
Consider wearing a jacket or coat as the outer, but sleeveless garments beneath it. That keeps your arms 'bulk free' and still warm. You really don't need as heavy layering on arms as your torso.
ChuckC