I bought a cheap 550 fill down jacket a few weeks ago from the "bargain cave" and I'm starting to like it better than my wool(and I have some good wool).
This is my first down jacket.What are the pros and cons of down?
I think down is great if it stays dry. It's light and insulates well. One shortcoming is the material around the down is usually noisy. If you get it wet, forget about being comfortable and plan for a long drying out session.
Just like stevem said, good til it's wet. Down is good city clothing.
Other than what stevem said, down is usually more bulky than wool, so it can sometimes interfere with shooting the bow.
If it stays dry, I can't imagine anything more lightweight and warmer than down.
When I am hunting in very cold weather or in the mountains I wear a down vest under my wool/rain gear so it will stay pretty dry and not so bulky.
A down vest or thin down jacket is always in a stuff sack in my backpack. Takes up no room and comes in handy when the temp starts to drop. I don't wear wool anymore. Just too heavy.
Down is great and warm, But IMAO it is best for a cover at bed time. Like others has said, it gets wet it's done till it is dry.. And then You have to put it in a dryer with a tennis ball to fluff it back up to keep you warm outside.
Fall in the creek with wool, and it's just a mishap. Fall in the creek with down, and you better think about getting to a heat source before hypothermia sets in.
I usually use synthetics, and have listened closely to Tony Russ up in Alaska. I do like wool a lot but don't usually wear much of it. I've long ago gotten rid of all my down as I have too much of a habit of getting wet while hunting.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: for down jacket or vest in bitter cold.
Keeping it dry has never been a problem for me. It isn't exactly delicate but you fall in the creek with Bobaru you might have a problem. I would probably disagree about falling in the creek with wool. You might not be able to move from the weight. :)
I like my wool but in bitter cold, a down layer is the ticket for me.
The best of both worlds......down shirt under a wool shirt jac. Toasty!!!
I wear a lightweight down jacket and wool shirt under my waterproof shell when hunting very cold weather mostly for rifle, waterfowl, etc. Since I have to pack the jacket and a heavy wool shirt in a pack for a long hike in the morning I like it because it weighs nothing.
Down is good for Norweigan Yuppies...PR
I always carry a packable down vest.
The best, lightest and warmest insulator bar none. Its what those of us use who know how easy it is to keep it dry.
Would I pull it out in a torrential rain with no shell? No. But it only takes up the space of a baseball packed and weights nothing. I think some of you are missing out that do not design it into your clothing systems.
Down is a great asset if used smart.
When its cold and you are sitting a set up nothing beats that heatalator around your torso. Ahhhhhh.
Joshua
down is still one of the best insulators there is, and it's very light weight. sure if it gets wet it's not going to do you any good. but I sure don't understand everyone who says wool will still keep you warm if it's wet...yeah, maybe if it's 50-60 degrees out and you walk as fast as you can...but if it's below 30 and your wool gets wet, guess what? you're wet and your cold. don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down wool, I use it all the time, but it's not the end all.
Larry, you can wring it out and it will retain your body heat better than anything else when wet. I use nothing but wool gloves for that reason. People say that about wool because it's true. I once managed to pull myself off the front of a flatbottomed boat while duck hunting, trying to scull past a stob and avoid a blowdown. There was skim ice on the river, but fortunately I was wearing a thick wool sweater. I made the rest of the float trip in reasonable comfort. I don't think I was in the water more than two seconds, but it was enough!
I like down too, usually under something else. I have much better freedom of movement with a down vest when it's really cold, as opposed to a full insulated coat. I'll carry it to my stand, though, to keep from overheating on the way. Like others have said, it takes up practically no space and has negligible weight.
down= more bulk
wool= less bulk, warmer when wet,
>>down= more bulk<<
Greg: you need to shop around a little more for your down vest or jacket. We aren't talking about down parkas for hunting. :)
Birds are using their natural oil to prevent down from beeing soaked.
Wool outergarments and silk undergarments for me. Warm and comfy even when drenched. Surprisingly comfortable if it warms up a bit, too.
Down is lighter and can be compressed by outer garments.It makes a great base layer.Its a lot cheaper than wool,its not as heavy as wool.It dries quicker than wool. If the environment you hunt in is cold with less precipitation use the down.JMHO
I have a wool vest that I really like, but what are you guys wearing for a down mid-layer jacket or bottoms?
Thank you
Let's face it when you get wet your going to get cold. You can take wool pants and a jacket and wring them out, snap them a few times or slap them against a tree and a lot of the water will come out. This won't work with down, if your jacket gets a good dunk the down mats down and wads up in the lining of the jacket. At this point you have a mighty cold walk back to the truck. Wool works with your body heat/moisture, down seems like the heat is on all the time.
I played scuba-joe through the ice predator hunting one night when it was sub-zero. I wish people would mark spearing holes like the law says. Anyway, my wool KOM pants stood up on their own after the hike out. In a light rain I love wool. Thin down may be a great treestand item to have.
Yep, it's wool for me. I'm pretty clumsy and end up wet sometimes
I think everyone should consider when using down in any area that has water crossings, boats over water etc that a system is designed which allows you to keep warm even if everything gets wet. Its a fool that would do otherwise.
Some good points have been made about wool getting wet and not being comfy warm either- in any case its going to be the layer next to your skin that will save your arse if you get dunked and its cold, no matter what you are wearing. Choose wisely grasshopper...
Consider whip cord wool pants- stops wind, don't soak up 30lbs of water when wet and are very temp flexible when used with differing thickness layers under them. Snow generally does not cling up on them either like it does on more coursely woven wools.
I love down -- warm, light, and non-constricting. I try to keep pretty dry in my bowhunting exploits (never been to wet climates like certain parts of Canada or Alaska).
Down is good for insulation while mountaineering, winter camping, ice fishing and other activities where you'll be exposed to very cold, dry conditions. Once it's wet, you will never dry it in the field. It is very durable, if high quality, and highly compressible. I have two down parkas and a sleeping bag. My wife has a down parka and down expedition mitts.
Wool is good for insulation when you are hunting, snowshoeing (in layered applications only!), and any other time when moisture can be an issue. My wife once fell into a lake at a canoe launch wearing an Icelandic wool sweater. She popped back up and discovered that everything under the sweater stayed dry during the immersion.
Cotton is what you wear back at the lodge while telling lies about the shot you passed on earlier that day.
Noisy, worthless when wet, and just wait until you rip it on the shrubbery and have little wind indicators floating all over.
I see a lot of people "dissing" down, use whatever you want.
I like wool but it's danged heavy when it's wet and it retains a lot of water that won't be able to be wrung out. you can freeze it and whack the ice out or so I've heard. I've been so wet with wool that i had a hard time walking and keeping my pants on, but I was still warm. Nice stuff indeed!
Down is best for really cold, dry weather-exactly where it won't get soaked. I love my down vest and carry it a lot, I've used it in cold rainstorms, just don't get it wet....kind of a no brainer really, simply wear it under something. I suppose if you can keep your fletching dry you ought to be able to keep your down clothing dry.
Wool will keep you warm,when soaking wet,down wont but is nice ,dont get me wrong .For extreme cold weather survival though wool is the hands down winner.I can attest to that from being lost in the wilderness of the pacific n.w.once when younger.My wool saved me from hyopothermia,no doubt in my mind.Now if a guy wants a good sleeping bag,down is the best,especially if you pay the bucks and get the good stuff.
If I fall in the creek while I'm 1/2 a mile from my truck the chances are I'm going to get completely soaked. My boots are going to be full of water, my gloves and everything else. So I guess if I wear my filson wool jacket I'll be a little more comfortable walking back to my truck than if I was wearing my down jacket. In either case I'm not going to go sit in a treestand for another 5 hours. I'm going to go home and feel stupid for falling in the creek.
If Problem Child asked us which garment is better for a trip to alaska I think the wool arguement is appropriate. But come on guys, most of us hunt within walking distance of our house or truck. If we get wet its either raining and you have rain gear on. Or you fell in the pond/creek and are going home and in neither case will you die of hypothermia by the time you walk to your truck.
I have a down vest that I pull out for really cold days on stand and it is awesome!
Wool is a very functional garment and I own several items made of high quality wool. But wool isn't the warmest option for cold winter days.
Problem child, if you hunt in some serious cold weather put on your down jacket under a wool coat and it will be a great day!
I like my wool, but i don't like the weight. Who makes a good down midlayer jacket?
QuoteOriginally posted by BCD:
I like my wool, but i don't like the weight. Who makes a good down midlayer jacket?
MontBell, Western Mountaineering, Marmot, LL Bean, REI, Feathered Friends, Patagonia....
Goose down: The reason wool sleeping bags went extinct.
;)
Thanks- which would you recommend?
Chris, what if you break something when you fall in that creek? Rhetorical question. I try not to go out without making sure I can get back, whatever happens. If I'm stranded in the cold rain, I want to be wearing wool.
Hunting the Colorado mountains with my wife, I killed an elk and didn't leave the area until it was getting dark. While trying to reach the trail where our guide was waiting to pick us up, we ran into an avalanche path of downed aspens that was impenetrable. Eventually we made it back to camp, after midnight and totally exhausted. If the weather had turned bad, we could have been in real trouble. Stuff happens.
Well, I've owned Western Mountaineering, Patagonia, LL Bean and Feathered Friends down products. All are made very nicely. Pata and Bean are made in Asia generally. WM and FF are American made...and are not cheap. All have good websites to describe their products. If I could afford it, I'd go with WM or FF. WM uses a network of retailers, while FF is a direct order/retailer located in Seattle.
Also and not to be ignored: LL Bean has an unlimited lifetime guarantee on everything they sell. If it fails 5 years from now, it's repaired or more likely replaced on the spot.
Finally, look for goose down of at least 800 fill power if you can afford it...and 850 is better. These higher fill power downs produce lighter garments for their warmth, and I've noticed they loft tighter and more persistently than lower quality (500 - 650) down.
After reading this thread i just bought a down vest that cabelas has listed in its Bargain Cave. I plan to use it under my KOM wool jacket so I can get the best of both worlds.
Has anyone tried cabelas down long underwear?
Mr. BCD,
Got a pair of the "pants" 10 or 12 years ago. They are very warm and comfortable, layered appropriately. Just the ticket for -40 degrees (F).
Best Wishes
Down underwear is great in camp. But don't try to use it in the field.
There are better materials for next to skin that do what needs to be done ie: move moisture away right at the contact surface. And anytime you sit your butt and your knees are not getting the benefit of loft since it will compress in those areas. It also is risky to use it in the field- what if it gets soaked? Its one thing to carry a down vest and if it gets soaked you pull out that extra layer you always have in the pack. None of us are going to carry an extra set of long underwear though "just in case". You want that layer to be the one that works no matter what, if you are wet or dry.
And if you use down under a non-breathing shell in cold weather, you will find it will be the layer that absorbs the moisture- not good for long term performance. Under a breathable shell the moisture is passed along.
Its a great part of a smart system though. Just design yours to work with it, not against it.
I was thinking of just getting the down underwear top and using it as a midlayer, not next to the skin. Anyone done this?
Mr. BCD,
That is exactly how I use mine. Synthetic next to the skin, down as a mid layer and wool for the outer layer.
At my age, I never walk/hunt fast enough to work up a sweat. Up here, "you sweat/you die", is a common expression with a lot of history to it.
Best Wishes
I used to wear down, but no matter what I did my back got wet with sweat. I remember reading an article of a man that dumped his brand new solo wood canvas canoe in the Wisconsin River after Christmas, the temps were near zero and he was miles from anything. He pulled up on shore and was waiting to die, when he realized that he was no longer cold enough to die. Every bit of clothing he had on except for his rubber thinsulate boots was wool. So he put his canoe back in the river and paddled home.
That's thinking positively!