What do you guys think? I'm a BH junkie and have been pondering the idea of a 3 blade head for late urban archery and hogs. My setup is #47 28.75in out of a Black Widow PSA V. Arrow is a Beaman MFX Classic 500. Thinkin about the Snuffer SS, Wensel Woodsman and a few others. I'm currently shootin a 125gr Buzzcut. Any other heads ya'll really like that leave some gaping holes?
Thanks, Sam
Well for deer I think you would be fine, but for hogs I would stay with a 2 blade. 47#s is kinda light for a 3 blade and hogs.
God Bless,
Nathan
I agree with bornagain. :archer2:
Sam: Maby for a 50# pig, but for a full grown hog, stay with the 2-blade. You just gonna piss a big one off. RW
I believe I'd stay with 2 blade at that bow weight for the piggies.
Three blade will work without a doubt, but the next one I kill will be with a two blade 160 grain Ace Standard. I just like the old school design.
Terminators or woodsmans will work.I would stay awat from snuffer ss
Snuffers always work for me
With that setup.....I think you are borderline if you run into a large shielded boar.....stick with a moderate to narrow 2 blade.
Geez, That's a tough one....For most normal sized hogs, I'd say you'd be just fine with a WW or Terminator....BUT.....(there's always a but right :goldtooth: )
When you're hog hunting you just never know what might show up, Like Terry said, for a big sheilded boar hog, you'd be better off with a small two blade with your light set-up.
I use 3 blade g5 heads in the carbon steel version, 55 lbs. usually blow right thru hogs, large and small.
I agree with Terry. I just shot my first large shielded boar over the weekend. It was quartering away and I went behind the shield, but that was just luck. I can't believe how tough the skin is, let alone the shield, on a mature boar.
49 @27 with a 640 grain arrow.....RC
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0158.jpg)
I would not hesitate to shoot a woodsman with a heavy arrow at your draw length.RC
QuoteOriginally posted by RC:
49 @27 with a 640 grain arrow.....RC
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0158.jpg)
Looks like that worked pretty well there, RC!
Awesome job on that pig, RC. I'd like more room for error personally, but I bow to your experience. :notworthy:
Big boars are the staple game of Aussies, and we seem to favour two-bladers as a general rule. I have succeeded with three-bladers, and I have also had a catastophic failure that may not have been so with a two-blader (although I'll never know for sure). However, I do know of two or three guys who have had great success with three-bladers, although one of them seems to have decided against them in favour of two-bladers. I prefer two-bladers for the big boys.
Three blades will work with your set up but i err on the side of caution in most things and as such would opt for a well built two blade .
Like Robert said a "heavy arrow"...
a few years back i shot a pig with a 50# longbow, 535gr carbon with big snuffer up front. at about 15+ yards i saw the arrow hit perfectly at the hog's elbow. *lots* of blood on the dirt road, hog took off into the swamps. we tracked it good, 'til the blood thinned out a bunch and it started to rain, never found the pig. terry found the broken back end of the arrow, which indicated there wasn't a whole lotta penetration.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/snuff1.jpg)
a year or so later i moved on to a different longbow, 55#, and upped the arrow weight to 585gr minimum, with wensels up front and higher foc. that setup blew the entire arrow right through the mid section on the hog i killed this past june (100#+)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/hog10/tg_arrow.jpg)
not scientific conclusions, but for me i'm sticking with higher holding weights for 3 blade wensel heads (i like that wensels and terminators are a bit narrower than snuffers) mounted on heavier arrows. if i shot less than 55# or so, i'd wanna use a relatively narrow double bevel twin blade and as much arra weight as possible.
Two blade all the way!! Stack the odds in your favour not against you. Every study on earth has proven two blade out penetrates three blade when going gets tough. RC shoots alot of hogs, experience makes up for alot. My guide in Wyoming uses a .243 to kill all his elk - does that make it good - he says NO - " I live here and can hunt elk any day and only take perfect shots - you bring a .375H&H".
QuoteOriginally posted by hunt it:
Two blade all the way!! Stack the odds in your favour not against you. Every study on earth has proven two blade out penetrates three blade when going gets tough. ...
if that were the sole reason for shooting twins, then i doubt there'd be a need for 3 blades, where the difference for me is the large hole and blood letting that triples make.
imo, a 3 blade needs more horsepower to get the job done on certain critters, and i carefully respect that consideration.
Rob,
Not to argue with your statement, BUT on tough/thick skinned/heavy boned game - using same poundage bows the two blade will out penetrate the three blade every time.
On deer, antelope, black bear, liitle hogs and thin skinned game three blade gonna make em deader and bleed better for sure.
Big hogs are in the thick skinned/tough category in my book. I shoot 70 to 80# and I still would prefer a 2 blade over a three for big old hogs. My opinion of course, each to his/her own.
QuoteOriginally posted by hunt it:
Rob,
Not to argue with your statement, BUT on tough/thick skinned/heavy boned game - using same poundage bows the two blade will out penetrate the three blade every time.
On deer, antelope, black bear, liitle hogs and thin skinned game three blade gonna make em deader and bleed better for sure.
Big hogs are in the thick skinned/tough category in my book. I shoot 70 to 80# and I still would prefer a 2 blade over a three for big old hogs. My opinion of course, each to his/her own.
the key, for me, is to wisely choose the right broad head for the right game, with the right arrow and the right bow.
if hog hunting and i come across a really big hog, i'd want - and do carry - a pair of proper 'n' heavy twin blades (typically a tusker concorde double bevel).
but for the smaller, thinner skinned critters, the difference 'tween 2 blade and 3 blade and 4 blade has been proved well enuf for me ... big holes, lotsa blood, faster kills.
aaaaa, it's all good, and sometimes this stuff can border on nit pickin'. :D
The slimmer Woodsman might be OK, I like the 160gr Snuffer but on something as potentially tough as a boar I use 60# minimum behind the big Snuffer with no problems so far. Below 60# I have some of the original Zephyrs (two blade) that are 130gr.
Thanks for the replys fellers! 3 blades let more blood out and that's the reason for me wanting to use them. Simmons are on my list for the 2 blades for sure.
That pic I posted was with a Big snuffer like Guru shoots. The smaller better penetrating woodsman would do fine. Face it...if you hit him in the shoulder you made a bad shot. Would a two blade matter then? A pig hit up in the shoulder up high will not usually be recovered because you shot over the lungs anyway.RC
I`ve killed a few large pigs with a Magnus I but the two largest pigs I`ve killed both pushing 300 pounds were killed with 3 blades. One a Muzzy 125 three blade out of a 51 pound bow with a 625 grain arrow and the other with a 52 pound longbow with a woodsman and 670 grain chundo arrow.We try to make up for a bad shot with slim broadheads but I bet if you gut shoot him you`ll wish you had a snuffer on the end. So why not shoot a "medium" head and hit them where your supposed too.RC
RC is definitely the "Hog Man" on here and I agree with 99% of what he usually posts but not this time. Hogs don't stand still long and are small targets, bad hits are imminent. If a two blade went 1 cm. deeper and cut an artery on a bad hit that may be the difference between recovery and a lost animal.
Just my two pennies.
One of our staff shooters in Texas hunts with a Horne combo hunter in both recurve and longbow @ around 50# pounds and has done well on deer and taken hogs as well, though I don't think any of the hogs have been large.
As Terry first mentioned keep to heavier arrows with either style of head. I would also add that penetration can be *severely* limited if the arrow flight is not true. I think this is sometimes the determining factor in arrow penetration failures that often gets blamed on the broadhead. Good luck to you.
I'm always a little conflicted with this subject since I like having a multiple blade head for the smaller hogs and two blades for big boars. I'm shooting two blade muzzy phantoms that are a pretty big head to try to get a bigger hole and so far the blood trails have been great.
I did shoot a big boar with a woodsman once and it didn't make it through the off shield. That arrow banged against the palmattoes and brush as he ran away and the broadhead was bouncing around in the body cavity and just turned the heart and lung area into chop meat when we did an autopsy.
QuoteOriginally posted by KentuckyTJ:
Hogs don't stand still long and are small targets, bad hits are imminent. If a two blade went 1 cm. deeper and cut an artery on a bad hit that may be the difference between recovery and a lost animal.
Hogs don't stand still long and are small targets, bad hits are imminent. If a THREE blade went 1 cm. SHALLOWER and cut an artery because of that 3rd blade that the 2 blade might have missed on a bad hit that may be the difference between recovery and a lost animal.
As always, arguments can be made either way. I've also passed through large boar hogs with lighter weight bows than Hunt It stated with FOUR blades.
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I still believe in this case my original statement of a non-wide 2 blade in case he runs into this.... Click Here (http://www.tradgang.com/videos/tg/hog1.wmv)
.....but I also know RC, and would not question what HE used based on his experience. if I needed more info *I'd* ask RC!!! :D
My answer is based on the set up and my lack of knowledge of the experience of the original poster on hog hunting.
So, please post your thoughts on what your opinion is based on the info above, and don't turn it into a bhead debate. That serves the author no purpose.
Thanks.
I believe that I read in Hunting the Hard Way that the number one reason for lost game in Hill's opinion was lack of penetration. I understand that equipment may have changed slightly since then, however if it were me and I was unsure of penetration potential on certain game, I'd set my mind at ease (one less thing to have in the back of my head) and go with the two blade non-vented single beveled head (based on Ashby studies).
I don`t mind anyone not agreeing with me. TJ has a point as well as TG. That is the beauty of this site that we can disagree without wanting to fistfight and smart people learn from these discussions.
Its seems when we talk about hunting pork everyone thinks penetration and that boils down to shoulders and sheilds. Totally forgetting about the other 2/3 s of the pig.I`ve liver and gut shot way more pigs than shoulder shot because I tend to shy away from it. Kinda like shooting at something close to a tree. I find them all with a very rare exception.I`ve gut shot hogs with a snuffer and big simmons that went less than 100 yards and laid up with good sign to trail with. Its not whats nice to see but I`ve shot a few hogs with a 4 blade interceptor in the paunch that the insides came out of the hole and it did not go far at all.Shooting a narrow head I`m not sure if I would have found the pig. I usually use redneck logic and a shoulder shot pig will usually live. a gut shot ones gonna die. I want a BIG hole.
I am down to shooting 50 pounds and less.I shoot more accurate with this weight. I decided to shoot the zwickey no mercy head early in the year because I was "worried" about penetration. After and hog and mature buck I killed with the arrow passing completely through and sticking 6" in the dirt on the deer I decided I was wasting a lot of energy.I added about 40 grains arrow weight which does not matter to me because I ain`t gonna shoot over 20 yards or so and put the big Magnus I heads on and the last two with Woodsmans.The no Mercy heads are great and I would use them if I ever get to hunt elk but the blood trail did not compare to the magnus or woodsman.They all work just hit them where your supposed too. Good hunting,RC.
Robert...was that a no mercy 2 or 4 blade you used.
Bobco....in my experience....most lost animals I've PERSONALLY been involved in are from lost blood trails from 2 blades....not just animals I've shot, but mostly trails I've been on from others.....not just hogs either, deer and bear as well. I have to base my hunting on MY studies, not someone else's. Lots of other folks that kill a lot of stuff here also subscribe to their own studies. Not all game and terrain is the same for every 'study'. Easter state thickets and TX Scrub aint like the west and Aftica. And live animals really tell the tale over shooting ones that are already dead.
Not debating anyones opinion (including my own ;) ) .
QuoteOriginally posted by BobCo 1965:
Not debating anyones opinion (including my own ;) ) .
HA!....Good Policy!!!...maybe I need to adapt to that. :biglaugh:
Great posts! I have good experience with hogs with a compound. this will be my 1st attempt at hogs with my recurve. I know my limitations and wont be shooting over 20yds. My 125gr buzz cuts penetrate great! My favorite heads are 4 blades!Like another poster said..hogs move alot and bad shots happen sometimes, 1/4 away shots are always the key to stay away from the shield I have found. My biggest hog to date is 305#.
I really dont think my setup is all that light considering my drawlength is pretty much 29in. I'm getting better or comparable speeds amd KE to guys that are shooting 50# with shorter draws. I wish my Silver Flames were alot heaveir instead of 100grs!haha.
I really like the different oppinions from you guys and also like that it can be discussed in a civil manner unlike other sites.
RC what Magnus are you shooting?
TG, the no mercy was a 2 blade.Sam I was shooting Magnus I heads. I`ve used them a lot mainly because I can sharpen them without trying it seems.
A 4 blade no mercy would be a heck of a low poundage broadhead I believe. I`m thinking about trying them on some summertime pork this year.RC
When I hunted hogs in Alabama the man who ran the hunts said no switchblade type heads and best to use a 2 blade for penatration. They lost too many hogs with thoes open on contact heads and also with 3 blades. My friend Ed Fox got an 115 pound sow and a 6foot rattlesnake and I shot a 160 pound sow but we did loose her as it was right at night fall and it started raining and it was the last day of the hunt.Sucks to be me.
Im with RC on this, but i cant talk as to 2 blade heads. Ive only used 3 blade in all my years of chasing hogs. Its hard for me to talk on your setup also as mine is 56# @ 31", 640 to 680 grains but ill bet if you stay up above 600 grains you wont have a problem.
Sounds like some testing is in order. Spend a season with 3's and a season with 2's and you will have your answer. In any case i would stick with a good weight arrow.
I do like the blood i get on the ground with a 3 blade but again i have nothing to compair it to as i havent used 2 blade heads but im a if it aint broke dont fix it kind of guy.
QuoteOriginally posted by KentuckyTJ:
Hogs don't stand still long and are small targets, bad hits are imminent. If a two blade went 1 cm. deeper and cut an artery on a bad hit that may be the difference between recovery and a lost animal.
OK....how about if that 2 blade that went in 1 cm further... went in in such a way that it missed an artery on it's way in, say horizontal and the artery was laying the same way, that a multi-blade head would have cut on the way in? The 2blade wont cut it even though it was right next to it, and penetrated right on by it....
So in theory even if the 3 bl. doesn't go in further, it's still cutting more on the way in...
So either way could work for or against you I guess.
But like Robert said, and I've proven this myself with a thread a couple years ago...the overwelming majority of not-so-good-hit are too far back...in other words soft tissue...
That's why I like 3 blade heads, and the biggest I know I can get away with in a given situation is what I'll be shootin :thumbsup:
+1 what curt just said! :thumbsup:
I think a lot of people here are committed to what they trust and know. I do agree that I also have had better blood trails with a 3 blade. I think penetration is important but it is not everything. If you get complete penetration with a 2 blade head, it is possible to get less damage than with a 3 blade head that gets 6" less penetration. My point is a 3 blade head still inside will do more damage as the animal runs off than a 2 blade head in the ground on the other side of the animal. I used 2 blade heads as well and think it is a good head as a lot of dead animals are examples. I believe that both heads will get the job done but I would rather track a animal hit with a 3 blade head. Just my preference.
My hog experiences are not as diverse as some here but I have killed several (12, lost one, my fault shot went bad). Let me state plainly I am 90% a two blade guy and I do not shoot hogs over 150#. I like to eat em....
The first one was with a 50# recurve with a 450gn arrow. Hog weighed 130# guts out. Shot was 15 yards broadside and, lucky me, the hit was peerfect. Old orig. Bear head. Passed through both sides and was laying on the ground. Dead pig in 20 yards.
OK so that worked. Fast forward, through several others, to a year ago. 51# longbow with AD Nitro stinger and Sasquatch BH (weighed in at 495gr). 20 yds and an other good hit. Arrow passed through but was hanging on off side as hog split, arrow fell out. 30 yds.. dead pig.
I like the two edged stuff. I have also killed another one last year with a 150 Razor Cap. No better blood trail than the two blade....
I guess they both work if you put em where they should be.
Just my two cents worth...
Not a pig but an idea of how a woodsman penetrates. 47@27 Mohawk longbow and 570 grain arrow. 3.5 y/old Ga. wma bonus tag buck.RC
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_1247.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_1244.jpg)
Would 515 grns with a Woodsman out of a #53 longbow be good enough for decent size hogs? Not anything over 150 lbs I would guess... Gonna go after a few hogs in the spring down around Lowndes County, Alabama.
RC...have you EVER missed? :D
That arrow got a sample of just about everything we hope to hit. Talk about a sudden drop in blood pressure.
I can't speak for hog hunting and broadheads. But I'll chime in with my desicion on equipment when I get the chance to hunt the hog.
I will hunt with the Woodsman. I've tried sharpening a two blade and I just can't get it. I can shapren the heck out of a Woodsman though. Therefore, sharpness to me is a more critical part of the equation over 2 or 3 blade.
Like I said, no expert but that's my reasoning.
-Jeremy :coffee:
Awesome RC! Can't ask for to much better than that. If I go with a woodsman, my arrow weight will prolly be close to 600grs. Now if I can get them sharp as I like is the question? Lol
Woodsmans are extremely easy to sharpen..look in the how to section there is a how to on sharpening woodsmans.
I've killed a few with two blades and liked them. I prefer a wide two blade when using them. I shoot upper 40s to low 50s longbows. I have since switched to the 1 1/4" three blade VPA broadheads. I think I will be shooting these for a long time. I do prefer a high FOC arrow around 600-650 grains.
Shot placement is key with hogs for sure! Razor sharp broadheads are a must and the rest is up to the hunter. I prefer 2 blade grizzly's myself. Hickory shaft with 200 gr grizzly makes an 850 grain rocket out of my 65# nighthawk! Good Hunting guys!
Really informative forum for guys like me that have never yet got to hunt pigs,but have always dreamed of and jones to go do it in the winter when everything is closed big game wise.I will head all of this knowledge and experiance for the day that I finally get to hunt them.Thank you all.Very good discussion!
If you can get a heavy arrow to work for you (650 grains+)a 3 blader should be fine. Otherwise you can split the difference with a 4 blade Stinger on a lighter shaft if you are already comfortable with them. I like to have both kinds of heads in my quiver. If I see a meat hog I want, go with the 3 (Razorcap), a bigger shielded hog, use the Stinger. This game isn't "all or nothing"!
QuoteOriginally posted by RC:
I would not hesitate to shoot a woodsman with a heavy arrow at your draw length.RC
I'm with RC on this one. He may be the only guy I know that has killed more hogs than me. Mine are usually bigger than his though.
QuoteOriginally posted by RC:
I would not hesitate to shoot a woodsman with a heavy arrow at your draw length.RC
+1 ... an dat's da name o' dat tune.
with light arrows and/or light holding bow weight, i would not choose a 3 blade for hogs - i only killed three but i got edumacated real fast.