"these pictures are somewhat graphic, view them at your own disgression" My Dad is a taxidermist and so I get some "left overs" every once in a while. These shoulder blades came off of a medium sized three point mule deer buck. I tried some broad head testing and these were the results. The testing was done at 10 yards, with a 56lb recurve bow. My arrow is a gold tip, three 5" feathers, brass insert, weight tube and a 125 grain rw bevel grizzly broad head, total arrow weight 627 grains. I don't know all of the technical names for the anatomy of a shoulder so please be patient. All of the hits on the main shoulder "scapula" had complete penetration and the trademark grizzly damage, breaking and shattering the bone. The two tips that bent were hits that connected in the joint on the heavy bone section. They achieved full penetration of the broad head but did bend on the tip. I am sure there have been many tests done on grizzly heads but this kept me busy and I had a lot of fun doing it. Thanks for looking.
(http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv172/connerparry/P1040756.jpg)
(http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv172/connerparry/P1040758.jpg)
(http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv172/connerparry/P1040759.jpg)
(http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv172/connerparry/P1040760.jpg)
(http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv172/connerparry/P1040757.jpg)
(http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv172/connerparry/P1040761.jpg)
(http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv172/connerparry/P1040762.jpg)
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Just curious why the shoulder is being tested on a deer, as the scapula is not connected by a joint ball/socket. I always go for a double lung, so this is why I ask.
The academic question is what happens when there is slight operator error and I'd say the results are favorable.
Thanks for sharing this ... This reinforces why I am in favour of a well made two blade broadhead above everything else.
Good stuff.
Arghh! I wish I could sharpen those good. I'd be shooting them for sure. Thanks for sharing.
-Jeremy :coffee:
Jeremy ..try the new Grizzly head, very easy to sharpen compared to the old ones.
Let´s not make this too technical, I am just a guy who had some curiosity about shoulder hits and some free time. I am not making any claims, or trying to even come close to a professional study. I just thought some guys would like to see actual pictures.
The pictures and test are great.
I have these broadheads on my list to order from 3rivers, Thank you for taking the time to confirm my decision.
Is it possible that the arrow is making it through the target and impacting the reinforced concrete wall behind it?
I have used the SAME recurve for almost twelve years. It is 73lbs ay my 29 1/2" draw, and I have always used arrows around 10 GPP. I have used two edge heads exclusively with it, and in that time I have killed almost two dozen whitetails. Other than some nicks from penetrating into the ground, I have never had a tip curl or bend in the fashion your picture shows.
QuoteOriginally posted by fdlz58:
Arghh! I wish I could sharpen those good. I'd be shooting them for sure. Thanks for sharing.
-Jeremy :coffee:
Get a KME broadhead sharpener. It makes getting Grizzlies scary sharp a no brainer.
Great pics Conner! :archer2:
Good pics and test but I have found that any good broadhead out of a hunting weight bow will punch through the "flat" of the scapula - it is that nasty rib/ridge running along the forward edge that stops you. I have done the same test with bear shoulder blades with equal results. I also feel that a live deer with hair and flesh makes penetration a lot tougher than a fully exposed scapula. I have scapula hanging in camp with a 3 blade hole(woodsman) punched through it from a large deer I shot a few years back. Keep shooting until you hit that ridge and report the results. On another note - I have never seen a Griz bend? Surprised that happened no matter where you hit bone.
Bob Urban
I have blown through the shoulder bones on the exit with a 160 and it did not bend at all. Perhaps it has something to do with the way the test was set up or the distance.
Think even ashby had grizzlys bend in his studies. Yeah that flat part is thin but that ridge is a bear! Good tests - I like the griz 160s as my fav Bhead they are tough and bombproof.
The new heads are a mark improvment though they still require some elbow grease to get the right. At least you are not having to change bevel on em.
J
QuoteOriginally posted by Bonebuster:
Is it possible that the arrow is making it through the target and impacting the reinforced concrete wall behind it?
X2
That is the first thing I though looking at the pic's.
Great info, I shoot the 190's have never seen one bend, even when stoped by bone in the knuckle joint.
Looks pretty good
The arrows that were tested did NOT make it through the foam into the concrete wall. The broad head penetrated just past the ferrel on both shots when they bent. I think the only reason that they bent is because I took too much material off of the head while filing it sharp, making it weaker than it should have been. I have 12" of foam behind the shoulders and the maximum penetration of all shots was only 10", the arrow never made it through the foam. I will keep shooting and add more as the test continues.
Hey,Cool test Conner.I enjoyed your sharing of it.Goo stuff,I meant good stuff.
cottonwood, the scapula is tested because it is a common place of impact when shooting for a double lung.
As far as the flat part being thin without backbone, i reshape mine to better follow the angle of the ferrule. This detratcts from the beneficial length to width ratio but i feel it adds considerable strengtht to the heads.
conner, thanks for sharing. Search "in case you dont believe ashby". I did almost the exact test about a week ago.
should of threw some different heads on for comparison,,,,, can anyone out there do something like this with a double bevel so we can see what happens?
FWIW.....
Here's a pic of a Magnus I 4 blade that passed through the shoulder of a live moose.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/MooseBlade.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by KyleAllen:
cottonwood, the scapula is tested because it is a common place of impact when shooting for a double lung.
Please see shot placement pics stickied at the top of this forum. Especially the animated one at the bottom of the whitetail pics. Its also much more common to shoot too far back than too far forward.
ok i see your point. However i've seen deer shot in the shoulder multiple times on tv. Whether that was in the scapula or not i do not know. The deer are not disected. Shoulder region, low penetration. People do at times take shots that are quartering towards them. From a tree stand the scapula obscures a large portion of the vitals....which is why this shot is not recommended. BUT people take this shot. A day may come when you will take this shot. Deny it and you will think of this when it happens. Oh and animals don't stay where they are supposed to for crap!!
Kyle, how many deer have you seen killed in real life with a bow and arrow?
That would be a grand total of one. What's your point?
I do see that the scapula is very high and that the humerus is more of an obstacle...assuming a quartering too shot..that i am not practicing nor recommending. But i still fail to see why it would not be a beneficial test.
Kyle I saw you get mouthy on another thread with a few hunters with tons of experience. Some have even killed 100 times more deer than you, and even made fun of them being 'set in their ways'......so, I now see you dont even have any ways to set in. You even used a borrowed shoulder to do your test. That is my point.
I do not find myself saying that some are set in their ways as being mouthy. I am very well aware that some maybe even most have taken far more deer with a bow and arrow than i have.
As far as the other thread, I see it as a salesman coming to town selling the first automobile. Some would say well my horse has taken me thousands of miles, i don't care anything about an automobile. Would you not say that the automobile is superior? Do we all not drive them rather than horses?
Sure a double bevel head of almost any manufacture will kill a deer graveyard dead and do a dang good job of it. But what if one would cut a little deeper on less than perfect shots? If you never try the automobile you will never know if something could be better.
I apologize for being "mouthy" and certainly for any disrespect that may have been perceived. Disrespect was certainly not my intention. I see no positive outcome from any of my further involvement in this thread so i will withdraw from it. I did however find my picture that was deleted to be pertinent to my argument.
Many have already driven said automobile(that isn't
new) and found it inadequate for certain game.
I did a similar test on a mature five year old mule deer buck. Once again the test was done because on deer because that's what was left over at the taxidermy shop. We don't have Zebra's here in Utah or I would shoot at one of those :) I tested the same 627 grain arrow with a Magnus Buzzcut 125 grain head. Sorry I don't have the pictures to post but the penetration and damage to the scapula was similar. I did get one direct hit to the larger bone "Humorus"? and it bent the Magnus head similar to the Grizzly. I hope that this thread does not promote the idea of shooting for the shoulder blade or any idea similar to it. I understand that shots don't always go as planned and I take comfort knowing what should happen if my arrow meets an animals shoulder blade down the road. This test was done out of curiosity and cabin fever :) I don't know if I can wait nine more months to hunt again....