I don't wear a watch when hunting. In Michigan the hunting hours end half hour after sun set. When I hunted with wheels I knew it was to late when I couldn't see my sight pins, with the gun it's when I couldn't see the cross hairs. With the recurve I can shoot in the dark. Normally by half hour after sun set you can't see deer anyway (they are just blobs in the woods) but with snow on the ground I can see well. Last night I got in and it was an hour after sun set.
So the question is: Is it too late when you can't tell the color of the deer?
P.S. Will be wearing a watch now.
It's pretty clear, up until 1/2 hour after sunset you're a hunter, after that you are a poacher. Law is law.
Deleted! Sorry I misread the first post.
Sunsets at Different times dependiong on where your stand is.
I sit one stand that the sun sets a 1/2 hour before the one on the other side of the mountain. Even if you dont have a watch, usually you have an idea of when its time to pack out.
i agree... but sometimes i will have to sit 4 awhile in the dark because i will have deer come in rite before dark and then get closer in the dark... and i can c them now with the snow. but i guess as long as u have no intentions of shooting after dark, no law says u cant just sit and watch/wait so u dnt scare the deer away.
I really like sitting in the stand on a full moon or in the snow at night. As long as you don't harm or bother the deer, you are fine in most areas.
Be careful, some management areas have a set time that you must be out of the woods or off the water. If you have a long walk or a boat ride to get back from your stand you better concider that when sitting late. In my neck of the woods, sometimes the wardens will be waiting at your truck. :scared:
God Bless,
Nathan
You must follow the law as Vermonster13 points out above. I have an AP on my I-Phone which provides these times for every day. I'll be in the stand long before legal shooting time and stay up until time is up. If deer are around me when time is up I may stay in the stand but I quiver the arrow.
I am very proud of my son. Last year, he passed the largest live white-tail buck I've ever seen (well over 150) because it was 10 minutes before legal shooting time -- it was rifle season and the deer was less than 40 yards out. The deer passed me too at 70 yards in an open field.
I once had a Conservation Officer tell me, knowing I was an avid bowhunter, that ALL bowhunters break the law. He claimed as a group we disobey shooting hours, tresspass, don't wear orange when required during overlapping gun seasons, and tresspass under the guise of our camo. I corrected him.
Correction: the white-tail was the largest live buck I've seen in Kentucky -- I've seen a half-dozen larger in Indiana.
In Ohio the DNR lists sunrise and sunset times and go by that. You have a half hour after sunset and must have a time piece on you at all times. You must list the time on your tag. Like stated above nothing wrong with waiting for deer to leave so you don't spook them. I don't know how an officer would feel about that though. Good luck.
Keeping the Faith!
Magnus
It is all by the book first. Then it is if you can make the shot with the light. With a compound I couldn't see the pins a little before end of hunting time so was generally safe with that. The exception would be full moon, clear sky, and snow. Then there were times I could see the pins well past legal hours. I never used a light on my site to push it. With a trad bow I have a hard time shooting if I can't pick a spot. A deer outline in the snow is not a spot.
Now with a gun and scope it is a different story. Bow hunting has been slow, I can't hunt the late season this year and I needed another deer to finish getting what we use for the year. During a very rainy Thanksgiving Day and evening I took out a gun to hunt. I shot a nice doe about 10 minutes before the end of shooting time. I knew the highly pressured deer wouldn't move until after dark in the area I was hunting, but also that they would think it was dark due to the heavy dark cloud cover. My dad said I shot it too late. I told him the deer and he didn't have a watch or look at the time tables. I did and was checking my watch every 5 minutes that last half hour. Ended up shooting it at 12 yd. and wished I had the LB with me, but I don't know I could have picked that spot very well in the low light. It was nice and clear with a good scope.
I have the times table page of my hunting booklet open and in the door of the truck. I check it each time I get out to hunt. As a water fowler often hunting public waters, I have the times table in that booklet in a waterproof flap on my blind bag so I can check it at a glance and I set a watch or phone alarm. Often the best shooting is very close to the legal time, and it is real easy to get busted for shooting off a gun on public waters if you don't watch time close. The CO's really prowl waterfowl areas. Waterfowl hunting has really made me a stickler for watching the time.
When deer or turkey hunting I set the end time on one of my watch alarms, but turn the alarm off. That way I can check later in the day if I forget. I have also e-mailed myself the times for a few days to cover the time I will hunt so I can look it up on my phone if needed. I never hunt without a watch and phone.
I have passed on many deer and turkey when I could easily have shot them, but looked at my watch to see I was a few minted before or after legal time and had to let them pass.
Officers have a lot of room for discretion. An officer who sees someone walking in or out with a bow (or firearm) could, if he thought he could make it stick, cite a person for hunting before or after hours. However, such cases, if contested could be thrown out of court and the officer's reputation with the court degraded. Officers need to maintain very credible relations with the county prosecutors and judges in order to get their important cases taken seriously so most wont' abuse their powers of discretion.
I would hope, as long as my arrow is quivered whether before or after legal hours, the officer wouldn't consider me in violation. If I was super concerned, I might find a way to disble my bow (cable and lock-unstringing wouldn't be a good option because of the risk of limb twist even with stringers on uneven terrain) until legal hours but that would be WAY beyond reasonable I'd think.
Frankly, if I heard of someone who was cited for hunting after hours I would tend to believe the officer was correct and the hunter wasn't just waiting for some deer to leave the area.
I don't like messing with a watch, either. Generally it is too dark to shoot in the woods outside of the half hour, but snow really brightens things up. Best is to just carry a watch or be pretty generous in when you choose nock and quiver.
Illinois regs require that the arrow not be nocked outside legal shooting hours, half hour before and after the sun. Quivered arrow would probably work for most wardens.
Here's what I go by if I don't have a time piece on me.
I find a few pencil sized dead twiggs on limbs at 15 yards away....and I know exactly where to look for them at. When I cant see them, its time to get down.......
I look at my surroundings and pick a few objects that I can reference. I usually have mixed fletching in my quiver, when the color is hard to determine get out. I had a last minute shot a few years ago that has made me get out alot earlier now if nothing is around and I am hunting open country. I shot a doe that was following a nice wide 8pt (so sad I didn't have a buck tag left) I hit her a little back and she bedded down about 40yds away. I sat until nearly 9pm watching her lay there under an apple tree. I was glad I had my phone so I could let my wife know I was ok. Text is great in that circumstance. The deer finally moved 10yds and laid back down facing away allowing me to sneak out. I found her still in her bed in the morning but will not push the light again. A few days later I fell on the ice and was out for the season, I think it was a reminder of what I had done.
NY is prescribed "sunrise to sunset" local time. It's a real temptation to stretch that either way when pursuing crepuscular animals like deer.
It is amazing how many gun hunters put off a "fouling shot" 30 or even 45 minutes before legal sunrise or discharge long past sunset.
The time tables of sunrises and sunsets are listed on just about ever piece of literature they print.
Plus I think most experienced hunters know when they are trying to push the envelope.
Respect for the critters we hunt helps us make those determinations.
God bless,Mudd
Terry beat me to it. That is exactly when I quit.
To me you have missed the point here. When I am elk hunting, I quit about 7:00pm. You say, but there is still shooting light. True, but if I shoot an elk, I still have to give it time before looking for it. Sure, you can use a flashlight, and I have. However, if I can find the blood trail and the animal before total darkness it is a real blessing. I don't mind dressing it in the dark. I have seen many people loose the blood trail and maybe have it rain during the night. Now you have lost and wasted an animal.
Personally I will limit my shooting time and not loose an animal, or find it the next day and the meat has spoiled or preditors have already been on it. This is more ethical on my part - personal opinion here.
Small limbs and twigs will dissapear when it starts getting late. I know I can still see a deer well enough to shoot but cant see those small twigs...something to think about,especially if you dont have a cleared shooting lane.
Vermonster put is best.
If an officer is a stickler for times, in some states it is legal to hunt for predators at night.
So if you are walking out of the woods an hour after sunset (due to a longer walk or deer in the area) and an officer is on your case, simply state you were hunting for coyotes or fox.
It doesn't mean take an unethical shots at a deer after legal shooting but does give you a scapegoat from any jerk officers breathing down your neck.
Seems like that law is best interpreted as the Spirit of the law, not the Letter of the law. Obviously, nobody should poach a deer at night, but who's to say a person's watch is set the same as somebody else's. Conversely, what if it's an overcast day, and legally you have another 15 minutes to shoot, but in reality it's too dark.
Frankly, it's one of those things that each person has to figure out in the heat of the moment. I certainly wouldn't be calling anyone a poacher....I'd be high fiving someone who comes into camp with a nice deer.
A previous poster mentioned it but in Ohio, we can legally hunt until 30 minutes past sunset. That said, I tend to bail about 30 minutes til sunset or earlier.
Trying to recover and clean and transport and check a deer after dark. Bleah - honestly, what a pain. I'd rather go home and say howdy to the wife, etc. and try again later.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
Here's what I go by if I don't have a time piece on me.
I find a few pencil sized dead twiggs on limbs at 15 yards away....and I know exactly where to look for them at. When I cant see them, its time to get down.......
You just nailed it Terry, I was thinking that very thing. I hunt where there's lots of brush and only a few places for an open clean shot. When everything around me looks like an open clean shot because I can't see the brush in the way......it's time to head for the truck.
Staying any later than that and hoping for a clean shot at the last minute is just unethical.
I am a little different in my clue to when it is time to leave. I shoot yellow fletching. When the yellow fletching looks gray, it is time to get down and head home. For me that is around 30 minutes after sunset. Sometimes I still have light to shoot, but I know it is to late, and i don't.
Down here in SC it is 1hr before sunrise and 1 hr after sunset.
QuoteOriginally posted by vermonster13:
It's pretty clear, up until 1/2 hour after sunset you're a hunter, after that you are a poacher. Law is law.
Yep, says it all right there. Better get a watch or a lawyer. You figure out which one is cheaper.
sunset is the only predictable time they can set the rules by because of weather the light changes every day due to overcast and reflection off of clouds, and it takes time to get in the woods and back out, darkness comes aproximatly 30 min. after sunset , and aproximatly 30 min. before it rises. my mere .2 cents
the rules are the rules...
So what sunset are they going by, the printed sunset on a booklet or internet or actual sunset based on current conditions and location?
Not trying to start a fight, just trying to avoid a fine.
Right in the New York Guide
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/2010guidesun.pdf
QuoteOriginally posted by Grapes:
QuoteOriginally posted by vermonster13:
It's pretty clear, up until 1/2 hour after sunset you're a hunter, after that you are a poacher. Law is law.
Yep, says it all right there. Better get a watch or a lawyer. You figure out which one is cheaper. [/b]
Wow. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Printed based on a level horizon and dependant on your longitude.
QuoteOriginally posted by Cyclic-Rivers:
So what sunset are they going by, the printed sunset on a booklet or internet or actual sunset based on current conditions and location?
Not trying to start a fight, just trying to avoid a fine.
Missouri posts the times (Central) for each day when the sunrises and sets, we just add or subtract 1/2hr for either morning or evening. The times listed are for Jefferson City which is where the headquarters is, and then depending on where you live and how far away from Jeff City you are, it also gives instructions on how to calculate the approximate time for your area, and then of course do the math for morning or evening........and well you get the idea.
Just get out of your stand at dark.
I don't know anybody who ever got a ticket for sitting in the treestand 5 min. longer than the calculated time from Jeff City, then add 30min. to that time and oh crap forgot to carry the 1, so I must have missed by a few minutes.....oh what should I do officer? Whatever.
Hunt ethical and do your best to be legal with the shooting time, and all will work itself out.
Any reasonable hunter knows when it's time to get down and head back to the truck, we shouldn't need a calculator or a watch to tell us that. :deadhorse:
Didn't mean for that to sound nasty or hateful at you Cyclic Rivers, just trying to make a point on the discussion. The chart that MDC goes by is printed in every Hunting/Fishing Regulation Flyer that can be picked up just about anywhere in the state of Missouri.
If your state has a sunset table for hunting, it does not matter how good your eye site is "at sunset". Be a responsible and fair hunter- carry a watch.
Published times. Most agencies print these in their guides or on-line.
The times posted are purely astronomical and have nothing to do with local conditions such as overcast, wooded vs. open, etc. From about Sept. 21-Dec. 21 these hours get about a minute shorter on each end of the day.
Of course if shooting light goes before the clock says so, I too would get down. My effective range shrinks as light wanes. As the last minutes of shooting light tick off my shot distance will go from 25, 20, 15. Even if the clock says I'm legal I get down (if no deer around) when my 15-yard shot disappears.
I don't get down more than a couple minutes before I can't see though. That last 30-60 minutes is often a great time for action. Most of the deer hunters I know focus on the evening hunt more than the AM hunt (but not me--75%+ of my hunts are AM). Since, in 45 years, whether with compound or recurve, my deer have gone down in less than 70 yards, usually in sight, I have no concern about fading light and losing a double-lung-shot deer.
However, if one is concerned about this, by all means follow the umpire on your shoulder, not mine.
I've downloaded the "Daylight Calculator" AP (I-Phone) from the "Bureau of Visual Affairs" (I know, who would have thunk such a bureau existed?).
In my bowhunting life, while hunting I've been officer-checked: 3 times in IN, 1 in Ontario, 1 in Wyoming. All were routine and of course no problems. The IN episode was interesting. It was in October, 1977. I had just returned home from my first job (temp) after college conducting timber inventory in Colorado. I had CO tags on my truck thus the interest from consevation law enforcement -- not too many Colorado folks hunting in Hoosierland. They checked me 3 times in 24 hours -- finally I thought to show them my NONRESIDENT Colorado elk tag. That ended the stake-out on yours truly.
I'm with TG on this one.. When twigs start looking blurry and not clearly defined, it's time to pack it . I've checked this with a watch and sun set table, and it is very reliable
1/2 hour after sunset law - I really do not carry a time piece at all -- but I figure I am about right when I come out. 1/2 hour after I gotta use a flashlight.
J
I hunt as long as I can see the color on my arrows. In my State you are hunting if you have a nocked arrow or loaded gun. I keep it legal and safe.
My cell phone, with all sound turned off. When the time from my states table comes up, my arrow goes in my quiver. If I stay later thats fine, but I'm no longer going to shoot, even though there actually IS enough light to for another ten minutes or so.
My watch, GPS and Cell all have time for sun rise/set. I am not going to chance loosing my hunting priveledges, gear and money by being mistaken about the time to shut it down.
Telling a judge that you are using eyesight and twigs, or color of the arrow and that should be sufficent to determining legal defined times is probably not going to get you very far in the direction you hope to go.
A cheap watch in your pocket solves any possible conflicts.
I hang a watch in my blinds so there is no doubt about when "legal" starts and stops.
Not having a time piece is about as good an excuse as not having a speedometer.
Pete
I have stayed until the last minute and taken one shot that late at 10yds in the timber. Had to locate my arrow to see if it had any blood on it, thats how dark it was...PR
I would expect that more deer are wounded, and more mistakes are made in low light conditions then at any other time when bowhunting. Knowing that, I am constantly aware of my surroundings. Like Terry said, when I can't make out that pencil size twig at 15 yards, its time to go. :nono:
I too go by Terrys guide. I know too many guys that filled their "buck" tag shooting at last minute "does".
1/2 hour past sunset seems pretty clearly defined from a legal standpoint. I'm sure your state has a chart to reference or you can look on the weatherchannel.com for your location to get the times. If there's not enough light before that then put your arrows away :)
When the snow covers the ground, and the moon comes up, put the grunt call away and get out the distressed rodent, or fawn bleat. Teach a coyote a lesson!!!
(Just make sure you have a fur harvesters license)
I call it too late, when it is too hard to see the arrow flight. Our end of legal time comes after it is usually too dark for my tastes.
Furthermore, Officials dont give people a hard time entering the woods before legal hunting hours, why would they give people a hard time leaving the woods after legal Hunting hours.
DNR and DEC officials have larger fish to fry. If you are a whale, sorry, stinks to be you!
QuoteOriginally posted by Cyclic-Rivers:
Quote
Didn't mean for that to sound nasty or hateful at you Cyclic Rivers, just trying to make a point on the discussion. The chart that MDC goes by is printed in every Hunting/Fishing Regulation Flyer that can be picked up just about anywhere in the state of Missouri. [/b]
No Offense taken,
I guess its hard to sense sarcasm when you are simply reading my typing.
I was trying to be stupid, Basically quoting "It all depends on what the definition of Is, Is"!
I feel the same way and have never heard of anyone actually getting a fine for getting out of stand within reason. Sometimes people get way to caught up with rules that they are willing to throw judgment out the window. I have an entire department full of those guys. People should get so caught up in specifics, that's why I love the simplicity of Stick and string.
Ethical is ethical and lawful is lawful, There is no reason why people cant strive to be both. I have a stand that gets dark a 1/2 hour before printed sunset. If I have a problem getting out of the stand before legal sunset, I wouldn't hunt it.
Same is true for stands in dense pines. It gets darker much earlier and hunters should follow Terry's advice and know when to leave regardless of legal time. [/QB]
58 in a 55 hardly makes one a "criminal." Until we all set our watches continually (including wildlife officers)to Greenwich Mean Time, knowing the approximate time in the current time tables and using good judgment for safety is good.
Dan in KS
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
Here's what I go by if I don't have a time piece on me.
I find a few pencil sized dead twiggs on limbs at 15 yards away....and I know exactly where to look for them at. When I cant see them, its time to get down.......
I like this responce because I too do a similar thing while in the woods, I carry my phone but hardly ever cary a watch so looking for something that in low light conditions I may not see is a sure bet that I'm coming out of the woods within the Regulated time alotted.
I've also had my Cell vibrate when the time is up for that just in case moment I'm simply asleep.
Sometimes, when someone is cited for violating shooting hours the officer believes they have broken other laws and this is the only one they can document at the time. During an "interview" with the cited hunter, if they've done other things wrong they often fess up. I definitely wouldn't live in fear of being cited walking to and from or even being in the stand before or after legal shooting times.
The main point I'm making in my posts is we (bowhunters) have a bit of a reputation (with some officers) for ignoring shooting time rules because it is so much easier for us to do so stealthily. When that duck hunter unloads a volley 10 minutes early - everyone in the marsh knows. Same for the public land firearms deer hunter.
I would rather we were the group, as many of the posts above point out, with a reputation of following the letter of the law because we know it and choose to. We claim (and I believe rightly so)to be very ethical hunters, part of that ethic is to know and obey game laws. There are other parts of our ethic that go above and beyond the law -- for example, those above who aren't comfortable shooting even close to sundown for fear of losing an animal -- that is an ethic above and beyond and is to be commended.
By the way, according to my daylight calculator it will be daylight here in Lawrenceburg, Ky at 7:39am this morning. I'm 800 yards from my tree stand .... got a get going.
I also go by being able to see color. On my arrows as well as the surrounding leaves (in Oct). I've tested this method for years now off and on, and it's pretty accurate to hunting times. In the afternoon, i generally quit earlier anyways.
Seems like an easy question to answer.
Here in Oklahoma the law says shooting hours are over one-half hour after legal sunset. Look up when sunset is and quit a half hour later.
Shooting hours start one-half hour before legal sunrise as well.
OkKeith
When I can't feel my bow hand!!!
In MD it is 1/2 hours after sunset and our guide posts legal sunset for everyday in the season. It happens to coincide when I can't see well enough to pick a spot so it's a good time to quiver the arrow and walk home.
Well Put Roy! :thumbsup:
Here in Alaska there is no such law. You can not use artificial light only natural light. If you can see it you can shoot it. On a well lit full moon when you can see very well you can actually hunt through out the night. Of course the further north you go it stays light out most of 24 hour period during early season. This is a good thing for me because I hate wearing a watch. I'm not out there to keep track of time.
I'm with OkKeith and Vermonster on this one. Pretty simple, look at your states sunrise/sunset tables, make the appropriate add or subtract of time and that's what you go by, its not brain surgery.
I don't want to track in the dark. For me, the day ends well before it's legal when hunting with bow. Depending on the weather it could be well before sunset.
Here in NC you can go up to 1/2 hour before/after sunrise/sunset.
If it going to be after hours by the time I get out of the woods i attach two platic fasteners around my string and the grip. Makes it unshootable and in the eyes of the law, here in NS, legal to carry out.
The twig concept is a good idea. I passed on a shot at a great buck this year because the light was fading even though I would have still been legal. The next day I sat in the same stand and when it got light I could see some twigs that could have easily deflected my shot. I was sure glad I passed. Game laws are there for a good reason, I guess, not just some arbitrary idea. We have a half hour before and after sunrise/sunset here but that's pretty liberal. Last year, I shot my buck at 7:30 a.m. Sunrise was at 7:15 a.m. I was 45 minutes into legal shooting hours, but it was still pretty dim. I sure wouldn't have attempted the same shot 45 minutes earlier.
I like to get to my stand well before daylight, and if there are deer around, I stay until well after dark. I still won't shoot until there is plenty of light. I find the older I get, the more light I need.
Another issue with pushing sunset is finding shot game, especially if the animal goes a great distance. A shot taken in the 1/2 hour after sunset can mean a lost animal.