After reading a thread about shooting lite arrows I became extremely concerned when I read about the effects a lite arrow can have on a bow. So I went out and bought a scale. I'm around 400 grains. I'm 55 lbs at full draw. I understand I need about 10 grains/lb = 550 grains. Does anyone have some good ideas to gain some weight quickly so I can hunt this weekend and not have to squint my eyes everytime I loose an arrow? Thanks!
What kind of arrow are you shooting? For synthetics you can add heavier inserts and heads. For wood you can only change the head unless you can interally foot them.
Gold tip 55/75. 28.5" long. 125 grain muzzy. Good question. I should have mentioned that the first time.
you can get some wieght tubes to put in your shafts!
I thought about ordering some from 3R but I don't think they'll make it here by this weekend so i'm looking for something quicker.
Weight tubes might be your best bet if your inserts are epoxied in. If not you could remove them and add brass inserts.
Dripper tube from garden watering systems will do as a weight tube in a pinch, I found commercial weight tubes belted nocks out a bit on me.
Cheers
Good tips. I thought I read somewhere about running weed wacker string into the shaft, sound reasonable.
If the inserts are expoxied in, you might be able to cut them off since going with more weight up front will mean you probably need a shorter arrow anyway.
Try a heavier point, you're at the bottom end of of a 55/75 spine wise, you should be ok adding another 100gr. Just remember, whatever you end up doing, your arrow will drop quicker past 20yds or so.
don't use weight tubes, just add the weight up front. a side benefit will be increased foc for a better tracking arrow. replace the aluminum adapter with a 125gr steel one, glue on yer broadhead or field point or judo, and yer good to go. no worries over spine/stiffness - it'll be just fine.
Thanks guys. Next year my dad and I are switching back to woodies so I don't have to deal with the weight issue as much.
imho, carbons and alums are the absolute easiest shafts/arrows to tweak and tune because of inserts, adapters and push-in nocks. woodies are tougher to tweak and more affected by spine issues.
Wiehgt tubes. Weight up front is ideal, but you will be tuning different arrows if you add 100 grains up front.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
Wiehgt tubes. Weight up front is ideal, but you will be tuning different arrows if you add 100 grains up front.
maybe, maybe not. carbons have a very different
dynamic spine range than other shaft materials. there's a reason why carbons are spined in 15# ranges, and for sure the carbon shafting spine charts are just not at all accurate. add into the equation how you aim and shoot an arrow, and you could easily find that any given carbon can span a large range of foc without the need for tweaking.
as a real world example, i shoot 29.25" beman ics 500's with weight ranges between 455 and 615 grains (the weight differences are all up front via the inserts, adapters and points) and all fly dart-like out to 35 yards from a 55# longbow. carbons are just different animals than alums and woodies. took me too long and too much dinero to figure that sucker out. :rolleyes: ;) :cool:
You could take out the inserts get some pink or blue foam insulation , run the shaft through it a time or 2 and keep weighing until desired wt.
I have put 1/4" rope inside the shaft before on my heavier bows. Works well.
God Bless,
Nathan
Different strokes I guess, Rob. I can't get away with a 50 grain change without going to a different shaft or cutting them to bump my knuckle up front.
I have a buddy who can shoot literally any arrow out of his sub-50 pound longbow. Guy drives me crazy. ;)
I`ve used weedeater lines. 4 I think to make it snug. Also the tubing you buy at walmart for fish tanks works but the best thing to do is get about a 225-300 grain broadhead.If its a bit weak you would be surprised at how little it takes to shorten a carbon to stiffen it up.RC
QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
Wiehgt tubes. Weight up front is ideal, but you will be tuning different arrows if you add 100 grains up front.
That is absolutely correct. You can't take a well tuned arrow, add 100 grains up front, and expect it to still be properly tuned. It's no wonder so many people think they need heavy arrows with EFOC and narrow single bevel heads to shoot through a whitetail. :saywhat:
QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
[QB... You can't take a well tuned arrow, add 100 grains up front, and expect it to still be properly tuned. ... [/QB]
no jason, that is not an absolute fact. i can disprove that personally and easily. there's nothing about archer/bow/arrow tuning that's written in stone and must be adhered to or the world will end.
just as not everyone can shoot longbows as easily as recurves, or vice-versa, so it is that not everyone can make a 450 and a 600 grain arrow fly well outta the same bow.
Sorry Rob, but physics is physics. And anyone can make a 450-grain and 600-grain arrow fly well out of the same bow, but not by taking a well tuned 450-grain arrow and simply adding 150 more grains up front (which is what this discussion is about)...unless we have very different definitions of the word "well."
I can take my gold tips 35/55 I think they are and shoot them with a 160 grain head or 225 and they shoot perfectly. No fishtailing at all.Bareshaft at 15 yards the 225 grain heads do shoot about 4-6 inches right.I`m right handed.
I have a few dozen carbonwood vapor 4000 shafts, half with weight tubes half with 50 grain inserts and half with 100 grain inserts....all shoot great. oh, looks like 3 halves don't make a whole but you get my meaning...
HOWEVER...i do change broadhead weight with the different inserts etc. all equal about 200...
with the heavy wieght tubes I shoot a 200 grain BH,
with the 50 grain insert and lighter weight tubes I shoot a 145gr BH. with the 100 grain insert and no weight tubes I shoot a 145 gr BH. All arrows weigh w/i 25 grains of each other.
I see no marked difference in arrow flight between the 3 differently weighed shafts, I have not bareshafted this combination however.
I had some AD Hammer heads that I left almost full lenght with a 200 grain head, bareshafted and they were dead on spine (very slightly week w/o feathers and wrap). I bent a couple inserts (epoxied in) on hogs and decided to cut them down and bareshaft them with the 100gr inserts and 200 gr broadheads. This DID significanlty weeken the shaft and I had to cut them down to bare minimum (29 1/4) for my 29" draw length.
Aquarium pump hose from wallyword works great and is cheap!
QuoteOriginally posted by RC:
I can take my gold tips 35/55 I think they are and shoot them with a 160 grain head or 225 and they shoot perfectly. No fishtailing at all.Bareshaft at 15 yards the 225 grain heads do shoot about 4-6 inches right.I`m right handed.
That's an excellent example. You and the original poster are both shooting Gold Tips. By adding just 65 grains to the tip it weakened your dynamic spine enough to move your point of impact for bare shafts 4-6 inches right at 15 yards. Can you imagine what 150 grains would do?
QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
Sorry Rob, but physics is physics. And anyone can make a 450-grain and 600-grain arrow fly well out of the same bow, but not by taking a well tuned 450-grain arrow and simply adding 150 more grains up front (which is what this discussion is about)...unless we have very different definitions of the word "well."
carbon shafting has a different, very wide range dynamic spine than static spine. this allows a wide range of mass weight and foc placement. the end result, for me, are like carbon arrows, but of different mass weights and foc's, that track straight and true to a mark out to 35 yards - that's my definition of "well" and all that matters to me.
I'm shooting 55/75 goldtips to out of my 55lb palmer, they are cut to 28" with 50gr brass inserts and 200gr muzzy phantoms up front. They weigh in at 540 grs i believe. I would use stu millers dynamic spine calculator to see if your arrows would fly well withthe extra weight up front. The calculator has been great for me.
Might want to consider GT brass screw in weights.
Rob,
I've been shooting carbons since '93. They're nice, but they don't defy the laws of physics or the rules of tuning. I know how simply adding 150 grains to the front of a well tuned arrow will make it fly, and it's no where near my definition of "well." But to each his own, I suppose.
jason, to each their own - my findings ring true to me and obviously not you, and for that i could care less. i'm not defying the laws of physics, i'm working with them. i think the difference is in what constitutes a "well flying arrow". to me, that's a complete arrow, including fletching. all that matters to me is that the arrow's flight, after it clears the riser, is straight and true. i can easily do that with a mixed bag of front end weights on the same carbon shaft - they all "fly well" for me, probably not you. this different foc on the same shaft/arrow stuff is not new to me, been doing this since the early 60's with 24srt-x alums, 'cept that shaft material is junk compared to the cheapest of carbons, nor does it have a wide dynamic spine range. hey, whatever - you enjoy your holidays and good luck hunting.
Stuff them with foam. Adds weight and is deadly silent.
My thoughts were to add the point weight and if the arrow is long enough to trim it back some to stiffen it back up to hitting where you were to begin with. Crazy I guess but would work for me.RC
I also have added a toothpick behind the side plate on my longbow to do the same thing.RC
QuoteOriginally posted by RC:
My thoughts were to add the point weight and if the arrow is long enough to trim it back some to stiffen it back up to hitting where you were to begin with. Crazy I guess but would work for me.RC
Not crazy; dead on. Adding tip weight decreases dynamic spine, which is offset by shortening the shaft to increase dynamic spine. One step takes it out of tune. The other brings it back.
Thanks for all the pointers guys. And the debating was entertaining as well, even though you're not really speaking my language (over my head). Anyways, i'm going to shoot for around 550 grains with the several different ideas and see which one works best.