I have a close friend that I hunt a fair amount with every year. He and his family own a substantial amount of property in his home town, and we hunt that property a lot. His properties are not posted, in fact they are in conservation easment and are open to all to hunt. Two weeks ago he went went to one of his stands only to find it and his climbing sticks stolen.
Yesterday, being Thanksgiving, I was at his house at 5 am for our 19th consecutive Thanksgiving morning hunt. We were hunting his mother's property this time, and he gave me specific directions to a stand so he wouldn't have to walk me in. I followed the directions as he instructed, right to the end of a stone wall, looked up and saw nothing but tree.......another stand and sticks stolen. I'm glad his 7 year old daughter was with him because I'm sure his reaction would have been a lot different.....
I don't understand people some times, I mean, his family has opened thousands of acres of land to the public, and this happens......
David
One word, "public". Its too bad. Hopefully they mysteriously show up, I have seen that happen before.
Here is how to think about dishonesty. If you are trying to protect your property or understand why we/they do things, consider these situations and he "honest" with yourself when you answer.
I use to do some training on this topic.
Everyone has a point to give into temptation.
1. You are walking out of Walmart at high noon on a Saturday. There are people everywhere, you see a young girl with her mother stepping off the sidewalk in front of you. The girl is about 5, she holding a kids purse. You see a quarter fall from her purse. Would you pick up the quarter and return it or keep it for your self? Experts will say that there are a few who will keep the child's quarter.
2. This time it is about 9pm on a Tuesday as you leave Walmart, it is dark, not many people around.
A man in front of you wearing a suit steps off the curb and his wallet falls to the ground. You pick up the wallet and there is $2500 cash in it. No one sees you pick it up. Would you keep it? Experts will say that a lot more of us would give into the temptation. There is less risk, and more reward this time. An adult should know better, it is dark so the risk of being caught is low, and we could use the $2500.
3. Now it is about 3am on a Thursday as you leave Walmart. There is no one around. As you drive away from the door a Brinks truck is leaving the lot. Somehow, the back door of the truck opens and a bag of cash falls to the ground. You stop and pick it up, the Brinks truck drives on. The bag contains about $250,000 cash.
Are you more tempted this time? Would you take it?
If you keep it, your life could change.
The point being, even honest people can give into temptation. If we want to protect our stuff, we have to make the theft of it hard, the risk high and the reward low.
If we make it easy and fast, with low risk, someone give into the temptation and steal it.
Put locks on your stands, enscribe your name on them, maybe even a small sign that your name is on the stand and you have game cameras in the area so the bad guy will think he could be caught. Then, if you ever catch someone stealing, PROSECUTE them.
"NO" to 1,2&3
pinko, commi, bed wetting, thumb suckers.!!!!
Sorry to hear that. Happens on public and private land.
Has been happening for years ever since I can remember.
I am like you, I don't understand why either, trash littering and all.
But thats why there is less and less land to get permission to hunt.
I bet if his family can, may even stop it from being opened to the public. Don't know how that works.
it allways make me shake my head. i leave my stands out all year long and everyone that hunts with me or even knows me are welcome to use them, i have not had one taken yet. why people do the things they do baffles me. i have a few extra stands if your buddy needs one or you would like one.
Saddly, I'd like to add to the 'list" of "reasons."
I've had the displeasure of having to abide by people in college and urban environments: a hotbed often for pockets of bunny huggers.
I know for a fact that a number of people who detest hunting, love the outdoors and hike religiously all over, wherever they please 'because they're not doing anything to harm anyone's property" they figure "NO TRESPASS" doesn't include them.
To the point: I've known them to brag, not realizing I, a hunter, overheard them, that they've marked stand sites on their GPS and come back and stolen them and threw then in the garbage, landfills, broken them to pieces, etc ad naseum.
Trouble with narrow minded people who don't like us is that they're pretty narrow minded about the fact THEY ARE narrow-minded!
the old saw, "the end, justifies the means" seems to give permission for much errant behavior these days! :(
And they LOVE to believe we then blame all such thievery on our own.
I had a stand stolen one year in Washington when I was running bear baits. I thought I had a pretty good idea of who did it because a dog hunter had run off of that site a couple of times in the past. I gave a call to the game warden in the area and told him what happened. Never had another stand touched. Did hear that the individual got caught in a sting and lost his truck, dogs, gun and spent some time in jail.
Mike
That is a great story Mike. I have had a lot of good responses from our game wardens here in Washington. They take the law seriously and prosecute it fully.
I hate thieves! I wish it was legal to hunt them. Since it isn't and thievery is common, I gotta say your gonna have to lug those stands in and out every day or loose some.
I can relate...years ago I had 2 hang-ons stolen from my family's property...which means they were tresspassing also.A couple years later I had another one taken from another property I had permission to hunt...thieves are scum. :mad:This was one of the reasons I got a climber I could take with me and not leave for the lowlifes.
I have had stands on public land for years. Last year I had a hang on and a ladder stand stolen. A fellow bow hunter was rabbit hunting and found them, they were hidden in some brush. I was contacted and the stands returned. There are good sportsman out there. My stands were always locked, but this year I bought better locks and did not leave them out till the end of the second season.
QuoteOriginally posted by Cherokee Scout:
Here is how to think about dishonesty. If you are trying to protect your property or understand why we/they do things, consider these situations and he "honest" with yourself when you answer.
I use to do some training on this topic.
Everyone has a point to give into temptation.
1. You are walking out of Walmart at high noon on a Saturday. There are people everywhere, you see a young girl with her mother stepping off the sidewalk in front of you. The girl is about 5, she holding a kids purse. You see a quarter fall from her purse. Would you pick up the quarter and return it or keep it for your self? Experts will say that there are a few who will keep the child's quarter.
2. This time it is about 9pm on a Tuesday as you leave Walmart, it is dark, not many people around.
A man in front of you wearing a suit steps off the curb and his wallet falls to the ground. You pick up the wallet and there is $2500 cash in it. No one sees you pick it up. Would you keep it? Experts will say that a lot more of us would give into the temptation. There is less risk, and more reward this time. An adult should know better, it is dark so the risk of being caught is low, and we could use the $2500.
3. Now it is about 3am on a Thursday as you leave Walmart. There is no one around. As you drive away from the door a Brinks truck is leaving the lot. Somehow, the back door of the truck opens and a bag of cash falls to the ground. You stop and pick it up, the Brinks truck drives on. The bag contains about $250,000 cash.
Are you more tempted this time? Would you take it?
If you keep it, your life could change.
The point being, even honest people can give into temptation. If we want to protect our stuff, we have to make the theft of it hard, the risk high and the reward low.
If we make it easy and fast, with low risk, someone give into the temptation and steal it.
Put locks on your stands, enscribe your name on them, maybe even a small sign that your name is on the stand and you have game cameras in the area so the bad guy will think he could be caught. Then, if you ever catch someone stealing, PROSECUTE them.
I couldn't answer any of your questions, because I will never be in a Walmart to have that happen to me. I just refuse to shop there.
I understand your point, and I can honestly say that I have seen people drop money, to which I return it to the promptly. If I find money, and it happens more than you think, if I don't see it's rightful owner, it then just found a new home. As for the Bank, I can say I would return it, but it is a retorical question that until it actually happens, I cannot answer that question. All I can say is I see what the banks are doing to us, so...??? You can fill in the blank.
Zero tolerance.
Cherokee Scout, you are wiser than I, or at least better at reasoning in a heated moment. Whether I lock my stand or not, does not excuse the one who would steal it. I don't push in my chairs so that my dog doesn't jump on the table. I teach the dog not to jump on the table, period. I've caught people stealing from me before and "taught" them not to do it again.
I wish I had your calmness and reasoning, but for some things I just don't. Many may frown on my attitude about this, but it is how I am.
If someone was stealing food, I'd give it to them. Maybe even money depending on the situation. But stealing a stand or anything like it ( a non life saving item) is just a flat out disregard and disrespect for others that should not be tolerated for any reason.
I am the trusting kind but I no longer leave my stuff out for grabs. If they're going to get it, they'll have to break into my house where it is legal for me to hunt.
The day someone stole the outboard off my boat was the end of leaving my "stuff" out.
I have had 4 stands stolen over time. I knew when I put them up the odds were likely they would get taken. I knew I was taking a chance, two even had chains locked to tree.
Above reasoning comes from my training I gave in past teaching managers the importance of removing opportunity for theft.
I hear you, I am being honest when I say I wish I had your knowledge about this.
I detest thieves. That is the nicest way I could put it I guess.
QuoteOriginally posted by YORNOC:
I hear you, I am being honest when I say I wish I had your knowledge about this.
I detest thieves. That is the nicest way I could put it I guess.
I think you speak for the most of us. To me the only thing worse than a thief is a liar.
I completely understand where you are coming from John, I have seen my share in my 31 years of law enforcement, but I have also seen my share of good in people. Opportunity still doesn't excuse the act, and if we knew who did it you can bet there would be a prosecution.
I just don't get people that do this, though I see theft every day at work. I think the difference is that the theft I see as part of my job is usually related to some sort of addiction. I doubt that is the case here.
Ken, thanks for the generous offer, but we will be ok with stands, it is just very frustrating to see this.
David
Character matters when it comes to dealing with people.
Is your friend's property in your "jurisdiction"..... ;)
My neighbor had a stand stolen only to see it at a garage sale, police were called stand returned. I really cant tolerate thieves, I work for my gear they should work for theirs.
thats why ground hunting is less expensive.put out a decoy stand an camo a game cam up in a tree maybe youll catch them on cam
my little fantasy has always been catching a thief in the act. they would have to first deal with me then the police. i would think anyone that would steal would also lie. i've never been able to understand the "ability" to steal. it would seem once you stole something you would never be able to use it out of fear of getting caught, making the whole process useless. i sure hope your able to nab them.
matt
I have had several stands stolen on posted private land. I always remove the bottom 5 steps and the stands are locked to make it harder to steal. Some thieves are determined.
On one early morning hunt I went to install the 5 steps and noticed all the other steps were gone. I went back to the truck and got enough steps to climb the tree. Not thinking real straight because I was mad as Hell, I stepped up on the stand. They had also kicked the stand out and it slid down the tree about 6 inches before it bit in again. Just about took a nose dive from 18ft.
The real topper was 4 days later the morons came back with an ax and chopped about a 5 inch deep slot in the tree before they finally chopped through the chain and stole the stand. This was a homemade stand not worth $20.00 for the material. Just shows we have some stupid thieves that will steal anything at any cost or risk.
I put cable locks on all my stands. They are impossible to cut with bolt cutters, but if a guy wants it bad enough he will go home and get a cordless grinder with a cut off wheel and come back to cut the cable, so basically it just keeps an otherwise honest man.....honest.
The 3 main reasons why people don't allow anyone to tresspass or hunt on their land is Theft, Vandalism, and Littering.
Then of course the 4th biggest reason is Liability for someone getting hurt and suing them.
If people would just treat others with respect as they expect from others......everything would be fine. Sadly though, there are more than enough scum bags to go around and they seem to be everywhere.
A guy I hunted with years back had gotten drawn for a hunt at Bush Wildlife Area near St. Louis and spent a few weeks scouting up till the opener. He went in that morning and someone had stolen his climber. He was PO'd to say the least, so what's he do? He wandered around the woods most of the morning and came across some other guy's climber and stole it!
I lectured him for at least an hour about how he just made someone else feel the same loss and dispair that he experienced that morning and how 2 wrongs don't make a right. He didn't seem impressed with my lecturing, so I then explained why we couldn't hunt together anymore. He understood that part clearly. I won't be a part of anything like that, nor will I be friends or even aquaintences with someone who would do something like that.
Sorry to hear about your friend's misfortune, and you can consol him by telling him that we arent' All that way, there are some good guys left.
That does suck David. I would be tempted to set up another, and hook a car battery to the lowest climbing stick. Of course, the battery would have to be camo'd. And a game camera in a good, unreachable spot would make me smile even more. :jumper:
Of course I would never actually do that....but thieves make me think of all sorts of diabolical things.
Tell ya a little story. That happened to a local guy here. So he put an add in the local paper. ( IF THE PERSON THAT STOLD MY TREE STAND ON PETERSON RD. WOULD RETURN IT BY 6:00 AM SUNDAY NIGHT. TO THE TWON HALL. I WILL NOT TAKE THE PICTURES I HAVE ON MY TRAIL CAMERA TO THE POLICE DEPT ON MONDAY. ) He got three for one. Thats right he had one stolen. By Monday there where three stands and two sets of climbing sticks at the town hall. Heres the great part. Has never owned a trail camera in his live. BAD GUYS - 0 GOOD GUYS - 1
I have stands out at my own property that have never been touched for years. I do my best to lock them all! I have had fruit trees pulled out of the ground that had been planted for a few years. I have had my posted signs shot off the trees. Its all part of owning/ maintaining your property. I don't see things changing into the future. Sorry to hear about your luck. I make a point of replacing everything that is lost with
at least 4 replacements. :)
That's a good one Joe!!
Jamie, what we have thought about doing is setting up dummie stands........you know, the ones where the straps on the top steps aren't really that good......like you, we could never do it, but things like this get the devious sides of our brains working.
Steve, that's what wrong, having to replace one with four is an indictment of the hunting community.........
I will say that both thefts and one other incident I haven't mentioned have all happened since rifle season opened.......
David
If you can identify the guilty party, file every charge against them that applies such as therft by taking, criminal trespass, hunting without permission, etc. If you have a camera focused on the stand, try to have a very well concealed one focused on the first camera.
There was a time, if I knew who wronged me, I would simply deck the SOB, but as I have "mellowed" (become more aware of the legal problems it can cause me), I try to let law enforcement handle the issue.
Keep your land prominently posted and all gates locked. Any and all confrontations should be in court. As a probation officer, let me advise you to never take retribution into your own hands. It may be justice in your eyes, but something very different to a prosecutor.
I took a hit for 5 stands and sticks (Lonewolf and Gorilla) on one prop and a Cudi back and stand and sticks on another the second my own!! It's this world of pecker heads we live in!!!
I'm sorry for your loss! And have friends who have lost stands and property due to people jealous of what we have.But! I am proud to belong on this site with Honest,Caring people(hunters). I moved my tree stand this afternoon to a location deeper inside the bush and not so easy to take.Yes it secured to the tree (locked). Because I don't think my local hunter belong to this site. Good Luck with your season.Ken
I put cable locks on my stands and sticks. That way if the really want them at least they will have to work for it.
found one of mine stolen a couple weeks ago but I'm blaming the firemen that put out the brush fires in this area,,, my stand was fine for years and well hidden in this private piece until a brush fire came through and theres a little field where the fire was on one side and the stand was on the other looking into the field and the tire tracks from the woods buggy that the firemen drive through the woods tell me thay sat right there and turned around a couple times and blah blah blah the stand that was locked with a lock on its chain and ladder are gone now and where cut with bolt cutters which they carry in the truck to cut locks on gates ,,,, so even some firemen out there are thieves.
earl I had one stolen that had a cable lock on it and the guy shot the cable with a slug,,, not much effort,,,some of our stands we use stainless deck screws and then galvy wire clips and use a couple of those on the chain where it leaves the stand and touches the tree and then comes backl to the stand---> unscrewing these takes too long especially if you don't have a #3 screw driver and they usually don't take the stand,,,, but for leaving the stand nothing beats the old steel chain ons!
Each season while scouting/hunting I walk by quite a few stands (the land is open to hunting). Some are so obvious/visible (to people or critters) that it's a wonder anyone would take the trouble to mount them at all. Other's are illegal (not labeled, left year-round to grow into the tree, etc.). Some are aerial fortresses made of old lumber, lashed logs, bright flappy tarps, recycled kitchen or living room chairs, even saw a fouton in a tree once. Some stands are there one week and laying in a heap the next...perhaps victims of another 'hunter' who felt 'his' spot was 'violated'?
Point is, there are all manner of people who 'hunt', all manner of folk who use stands, and all manner of dirtbags who steal or abuse them. In the end, whether legit user or dirtbag abuser, it's always the individual who makes their own call in what and how they do things. All we can do is follow what we know is right, protect what we can and let fate, faith and a higher justice deal the final hand. That's the world in a nutshell.
QuoteOriginally posted by Burnsie:
"NO" to 1,2&3
Thats funny and a little bit sad.
The question was....
"Would you pick up the quarter and return it or keep it for your self? "
If you read the question you can see that there are two separate questions in question 1.
So, which one are you saying "no" to?
"No, (I)you would return it."
OR
"No, (I)you would keep it."
Or maybe you meant,
"no, (I)you would leave it on the ground and walk away without a second thought."
i hate thieves