I was in a local pro shop the other day, everyone was complaining, and gripiing about how hard a season it has been, and I agreed. Too many acorns, hot weather, huge number of does, deer just not moving. I had harvested a doe and 9 pt, 2 turkeys, wife a spike, lots of hunters had seen little, shot nothing with wheelie bows or firearms. The wife had went hunting 24 times, and I had went 34 to get 3 shots at deer for the two of us combined, but we connected on all three. Another trad buddy had went 53 times to get a shot on a buck, and connected, nearly a twin to mine. Last few years I averaged 8-11 hunts to get a shot, wife also about the same according to the journals I keep. I continued to listen to the conversation, and asked how many times they had went hunting so far. Between 8-12 times, total for the season was what I heard, again and again! I couldnt beleive it, and this was about 20 guys. Most of these guys were in there mid 20's to mid 30's, I am knocking on 50! And we have a ton of deer, compared to when I was hunting, first killed deer in the late 70's. I guess we as a hunting race are evolving to a if it is too hard, I cant be bothered to do it. None of these guys were trad hunters either, most were Matthews or PSE guru's. I remember hunting all season, seeing 6 deer, killing a small 3pt and being fired up! I cant help but think alot of this is a result of our great tv hunting shows, high fives, and "I smoked Him" attitude. I just couldnt say much, felt exasperated, when one of the smart mouths says, "Koger is just lucky, must have some easy honey hole to hunt". I had to bite my tongue, but told them, "If you guys would get off the couch, and into the woods half as much as I have, with a bad back, prosthetic brace on my leg, and rebult shoulder,you might make some luck of your own, and you wont do that watchin Buckmasters, or Lee and Tiffany. If being succesful was easy,everyone would do it." I just needed to vent guys, any of you have similar experiences?
Not necessarily lazy and not necessarily the new generation.
The new Generation does what they are taught!
I tend to believe the new generation has not been taught to think for themselves and have not had much instruction therefore they replicate what they see on tv.
BTW I would fit into the category of the new generation.
I ran into an "old fart" last night who looked down on me for shooting a doe. He said "I only shoots bucks" matter of factually. When I told him I have passed on 8 spike bucks this year he looked at me like I was crazy.
Old farts like us have been complaining about lazy youths ever since there have been old farts and youths. Aristotle even wrote about that in his day! LOL!
Bjorn you nailed it!
I can't really speak for anyone else, but I'm 33 & go at it hard. Not for deer but for waterfowl in the fall, crows in winter & bears in the spring & summer.
I do think kids today are just lazy in general though, not just in hunting.
Born got it, been the same for centuries, we were the lazy youth a few decades ago. They will come around, just give some time to ripen.
This sounds like the start of a pleasant thread.
ChuckC
Sam,
Its been the opposite for me actually. For the time I have spent in the woods(think how many times you've called the house here and I was either gone or just got back)I have seen very little but I have had some shot opportunities.
What kills me more than anything is that I put in so much effort just to get a shot and then all the "gun season hunters" just drive up and there the damn thing stands in the wide open for them to shoot. Then they all go back and talk about what great hunters they are, while I am still in the woods making like a tree and seeing nothing! I wish they had to actually earn their kill with just a little effort.
But you know what? I wouldn't trade my time and experience that I am being rewarded with for every one of their kills. Like today, I actually managed to call in a hen but she busted me before I could blink an eye. But, I learned that I could actually manage to call one in. I'm starting to pick up on little subtle things in the woods that I would've have missed before. I have also noticed that my sense of smell has even improved since living in the woods this past month.
This morning I drew on a beautiful little doe and held right on the spot while she just stood there watching me and I simply couldn't kill her. I was easing along the ridge and I walked right up on her and she just stood there. I could have taken her but it just wasn't right for me. It just didn't seen fair chase and I wouldn't have been satisfied with myself if I would have shot her.
gee I have mumbled on from one thing to another.
Guys I am talking about the people locally, a lot of hunters get into it, and 3 years later out of it, too busy playing X Box on line with buddies. There are some great guys the same age I mentioned that have a passion for hunting, and hunt hard. But these guys were caught up in talking about this show and that, and the latest equipment that would seal the deal. You have to learn that the euipment does not a shooter make, with anything, and you get the reward out of anything, relative to the effort you put into it. And Jeff, hope you didnt take offense buddy, but you have transformed into a true trad hunter this fall, your post says it all for me. I was talking about the local guys that I see regularly, just wondering if anyone else felt the sam.e
automatic feeders and camtrackers have really changed things, but the #1 negative thing IMO?
ATV's
I can list dozens of negatives about them - very very few positives. The worst thing about them is people ride instead of walk - bad, bad, bad
I do agree that it seems that each generation complains about the youth. But I do think that we, as a people, want things to be easier, not just hunting but in everything we do.
I'm amazed at the younger people that I've worked and work with. Very few have any desire to accomplish much and become offended when asked to do the job they where hired for.
But it seems that I remember the old hands saying something like this when I was young too!
im 26 years old and spend between 60-90 days in the woods a year hunting,not including scouting and trapping!i work 60-70 hour weeks in the summer to be able to hunt this much in the fall and spring. i do agree with our generation being a little lazy!(thinking of a few friends lol) i have friends every year saying that i just have luck,i agree i do have luck but as koger says you have to get off the couch and go to the woods and make your own luck. it might not be a giant, but if the deer i shot got my heart pumping and it got to my nerves then that is the measure of my trophys!!! i do not put nobody down for what they shot or how they hunt unless i have a confrence like kroger did,then thats where me and him is a little different but maybe im still young and hot headed! im sorry but this subject is one that i talk alot about. :knothead:
How is this post trad bow hunting related? I don't usually ever post on here but just come to read and learn. I don't see how this post benefits anyone.
Hello shaanar, perhaps if you go back and read the first post you will see the context and join in?
I am still fairly young at 42 do I hunt lazy Bjorn? I think it depends on the person not the age.
I remember 40 some odd years ago one of my Mentors said " you kids today don't have what takes to be good hunters" some things never change but just come back around!
ya its not the age its the person..im 34 and hunt my butt off.i could be like my neighbors and bait and poach and such,but the path i have chosen doesnt allow me to be lazy.
Hi Clay you are in kind of a tweener age; too old to be a youth......and having hunted with you I know you are the opposite of lazy, I guess that would be 'industrious'.
I hope to have the honor to hunt with you again soon my friend.
How is the shoulder and arm doing from that nasty fall?
I work at a Public University, and I can honestly say that the youth of today are more self centered than I have seen in the last 20 years. It has been a slow, but steady, progression, but it I don't see it getting better any time soon. The youth, 25 and under, for the most part (from what I see) want instant results. They all have their noses burried in their phones or laptops. Very few of them know how to hold a conversation, and the ones who do also listen to talk radio. Just about everyone of them can tell you what Paris Hilton or Justin Beber just did because of Facebook or Twitter, but if you ask them why are we in a war right now, and they will say "What war?"
I really hate to think this is our future, and they are also the ones who are going to make the decisions on what effect my kids and even myself in the future. I don't want to go as far a calling them brainwashed, but I don't know what other word to call it. Just look at the last election to see what I'm saying. Everyone jumped on the bandwagon, because the mainstream media told them that is what they needed to do.
I could go on for a while, but I'm going to stop for the safety of my blood pressure.
Now don't get me wrong, there are some very intelligent and selfless people out there, but I just wish there were a whole lot more of them.
Lowell you are exactly right, and as hunters and we age, we are naturally not as gungho, as when we are younger. But every year, we as hunters of all age, are dwindling numbers, the numbers of tags sold in each state tell the tales, hunters are on the decline, period. And I agree that technology helps, along with learning your game and its habits, hunt smarter not harder. I have been very succesful as a hunter, but have earned every big game animal I have taken, hunting on small strips of property, public property, and respecting other folks while having trestands destroyed and stolen from me myself. I guess I just got too worked up, should have said more, but didnt trust myself. Wildgame,several of the local Mennonite community do the same thing you do, and are extrodinary hunters, have a lot of them into trad hunting now.
I don't think they are lazy. I think they just don't know or haven't been taught properly. I know several men 20 to 30 years old who afraid of being in the woods after dark and Others with no sense of direction.I would like to see how they would handle being stuck in the woods overnight with out all their toys.
+1 What Grapes said. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
in my opinion, life is just too convenient for youth and its gonna get worse. i live in nw.montana and hunt wilderness on foot mostly. very few guys my age(29) or younger will hunt this country with me even though the animals are huge and the views cant be beat. todays apathetic society is numbing the senses of youth, but if young hunters are lazy maybe there dad should have spent more time on the trail and less in the bottle at hunting camp? just a thought.
Another thought, in comparing the number of hunts. The younger crowd you mentioned had far less time afield than you.
Why is that? Jobs? Family commitments? Hangin out with the girls? Face it, hunting may not be as huge a priority as it is for some of us seasoned bowhunters.
Sure ,there is an element that has too much of the instant gratification bug, or lack the paitence. Some of that is a simple result of inexperience. As they gain more experience, their opportunities will increase.
Their lack of success has nothing to so with whether they shoot wheels or a stick. Its clear that the more time you spend afield, the more chances you will have.
My 18 yr old is out hunting every chance he gets. Hes tagged 2 does so far, one with his recurve, one with a muzzleloader. Hes had lots of close encounters with his bow, missed a couple shots, and made good on one. Id guess hes logged about 20 sits or so. Not too shabby for a youngster.
I don't know that its an age issue - I think more of a culture issue. More and more hunters get sucked into the easy is better culture. And the commericialism of the sport as well. I have friends that pull a four wheeler behind a four wheel drive truck to the parking spot, to ride for 5 minutes and walk for 2 minutes to a fully enclosed shooting house loaded down with heaters and radios, etc, etc,...and to them thats "normal" hunting. Its crazy!
I think its about what it means to you to hunt. More woods time is for the guy who likes the woods(thats me).less woods time is for the guy with unrealistic expectations brought on by over rated TV hunts.JMHO
Lazy? no just miss informed of how it works. Look out for drive through deer hunting windows next.
It's just a matter of time before we all (as hunters) come full circle and back to the way it was in the '60's or early '70's. Most people live in a city now and "hunt" via catalogs that should be used as fish wrap!
I'd like to believe most hunters are not lazy but for the lack of a better term... misdirected.
... mike ...
PS... And YES! If you read just a few pages of Aristotles' writings it will set you straight. Right On Bjorn!
Funny, I was called lazy by my grandfather and father when I started hunting back in 1958.
I believe today weather young or old commercialization has influenced a lot of hunters from the TV shows and video's/DVD's. They make it look like you just walk out there and bam instant success. You know buy this and use this and you will be successful.
Back in the old days ha! ha! I left a lot of boot leather on the ground. Did not have access to computer, Google Earth, GPS with topo, etc. And a lot of good information that is out there today.
But with that said, I am seeing a younger generation of some fine hunters that get it done. But those are the ones, women and men that are putting some time in the woods year round.
I have to agree and also disagree. I'm 28 and have put more hours in than most. I see alot of what your talking about, but mostly @ pro shops, that's why I don't go there. This year I hunted hard... As much as time allowed with a job and three young kids; also made my own bow from osage, my own hand turned arrow, string, food plots, deer stands ect. I don't think I'm lazy and don't think we are all like them. Having said that, don't let it bother you, just do what you do and smile inside.
I'm 34 and the only time I'm not lazy is when I'm huntin or fishin.
I ain't gonna sit here and lie about it, either! Unless it involves building blinds, bloodtrailing, building arrows, cutting shooting lanes, catchin monster bass or catfish, scouting for hogs or planning a huntin trip, I'm lazy as all hell.
Getting a phone that has the internet made the laziness worse too. Now I'm lazy at work reading about huntin and fishin online!
A lot going on in this thread. I'm 56 and my son is 31. My boy has two bachelors, a Doctorate, and is attending seminary for a Masters in Divinity. He is the worship leader at our church, has a wife, and 7-year old son, and is director of a science and nutrition program at a state university. Oh, and guitar and piano playing pull at him for his leisure time. However, he is still my best hunting buddy. He has hunted about 1/3rd as much as me this year but I'm retired from one profession and my new position allows me to work at home when I'm not traveling -- I live just several hundred yards from 7 of my tree stands.
My boy has tagged two deer this year as have I -- he is more efficient, apparently than yours truly?
I think some folks (regardless of age) have different priorities, some want quick success, and yep, some pay too much attention to the self-promoting celebs on TV. I remind my son that some of these TV folks get calls from people about a big deer and are invited to go hunt it to bring attention/$ to the caller. There is very little real about reality tv, including hunting shows.
An irritant to me are the young hunters (mostly) who start telling me (I'm a retired wildlife biologist-but I've learned more about woodland critters bowhunting than in school) about pre-rut, rut, post-rut, pseudo rut, core area, management bucks, cull bucks, bait pile, bait spread, grunt, whine, snort-wheeze, G2, G3, ....G-whiz!
Some folks do really get down when they aren't seeing deer or getting shots. They look at me like...well old...when I tell them of the day when 1 bow range opportunity (not necessarily a shot) per season was almost too much to expect. They can't imagine a deer herd 1/20th the size of today.
By the way, my even younger nephew got the "doe lectue" when he disdainfully asked me once, why I'm happy to shoot Does. Shoot anytyhing you want as long as it is legal, but don't try to convince me the basket-rack 1.5 year old buck is tougher to bag than the old Doe who got him and his twin through their first hunting season.
I don't think today's youth are any lazier than other generations...past or yet to come. I think they have more choices and distractions. I think they have fewer opportunities for mentorship because dear old dad isn't around or doesn't share their passion for the outdoors (or doesn't have any time either). They have the conflicting messages seen on hunting tv and magazines where some of the "celebs" try to create their market niche by recomminding things contrary to the norm (ham shots, moving shots, long shots,).
However, the saving grace to all of this and these is that they support, like, and participate in hunting. I'd rather have them tweeting in favor of us than against us.
Finally, I am very surprised and impressed there are so many young folks on this site that shoot traditional. Shoot, I'm a little embarrassed it took me so many years to come back! The best thing we can do when around the young know-it-all, compound user, etc. is not to make a big deal of our hunting choices. Our actions will speak volumes more than our words.
I can't wait to get my two little ones started! I have my little girl that will be 5 next month and my son who is 16 months old a present from 3 Rivers Archery just waiting for them to tear open on Christmas morning!
We are going to get off on the right foot around the Roark residence!
I'm 46 and still hit it hard every year. I've slowed down a little, but I'm still addicted to it, and love being in the woods with my bow.
Not my boys. They are both fledgling woodsman. It may sound crazy, but I LIMIT the amount of hunting commercials.....I mean shows they can watch. The shows teach them "zero". We go on winter/spring walks to identify tracks, sign, beds, tree types and whatever else we see. Maybe even catch a bunny or squirrel out and about. I wont let tv teach them hunting/woodsman skills. Thats my responsibility. If we want un-lazy youths, we need to change that and not wait for somebody else to do it. We made 'em after all!
Not all of them. My son has a BA degree in Mechanical Engineering, working full time and tryng to get his Masters Degree at night. It was a sacrifice for him to decide not to come back to ND and hunt with me this year. It is about priorities at times. His time for more hunting will come.
But your post was really about guys not willing to put the effort and time in to be successful, and then whining/complaining about it. I think the TV shows are a factor.
The last few years I have been able to spend as much time as I want in the field. When I am not seeing the numbers of deer that I have in the past, I do start to get a little negative in my thinking. Then after one Friday when I ran over my relative's dog, fell in the creek and froze my butt off sitting in a treestand, I had to remind myself that this is supposed to be fun! It takes me a little while to get my head screwed on straight again and realize that I am blessed in being able to live the life I have and spend time doing what I love-most of the time.
Some just want the success without the effort, and don't really like the sport enough to want to spend the time required to be successful. I think that has always been true.
Just about same for all things in life - YOU GET OUT OF IT WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT. Luck will not get you shot opportunities and big bucks every year. Young or old if you put effort and time into it you will reap the benefits. As mentioned, many of todays youth are winging it as best they can as they have not had the benefit of experienced help.
Even old pharts can learn new tricks.I recently had a landowner that has been letting me hunt some of his farms ask me for my opinions on what he was doing. I was happy to spend an entire day in the field with him and looked at all his farms. He ran out and bought two pop up blinds and I loaned him another. This young fellow is 72 yrs old and we'll see how he makes out next week during the landowner season. After hunting deer for 50+ years I was quite amused at his interest and willingness to change his hunting strategy.
Bowwild,
Well said.
I have hunted hard for 35 plus years and still have no idea what a G2 is. Could care less about all the stuff talked about by the TV shows Hunters. We work hard for whatever game we harvest down where I hunt. I hope to pass that hunt hard ethic and be proud of whatever game you harvest along to my Grandson.
There are alot of opinions on here. You know what they say about that: "Opinion are like...." You know the rest. There has been none of "the rest" here on TradGang. If you're on this site at all it speaks to some aspects of your character, for 99% of members. Maybe 100%.
But if you look at this site and the contributors, some in their early teens, I think it goes to the mindset of the individual and the influences on their own individual lives. My father was a heavy influence on me growing up. He built character in me that helped me get into my profession. He was a major reason I joined the military as a 17 year old.
Age may have a part in it, but there are exceptions to every rule.
I think holding a longbow or recurve in your hand helps you and me be one of those exceptions. It does not automatically exclude you if you don't.
It's up to us to be an influence on others just as my Dad was to me.
I spoke to a complete stranger the other night and told him of me passing on several shots recently. I had six deer under my stand all within my range less than a week ago. Two doe with their sets of twins each. Having watched the doe interact with their young I couldn't shoot at any of them. The older fellow looked at me kinda surprised but echoed his passing of similar shots with a gun.
There are hunters in their 60s that "smoke'em."
There are hunters in their teens that exercise wise discretion.
Youth? Maybe. Huntin' DVDs? Maybe.
Past influences and mentors, or lack thereof? Definitely.
I am 68 and have spent my time in the woods but I am lucky too. Killed a few deer over the past 50 years of bowhunting. I hunt with traditional equipment from the ground because I am lazy, don't have to deal with dead deer very often. A perfect season for me is if my wife kills a deer.
I'm 35 and have been hunting since I was 10 with a wheelie bow. My desire has always remained to be in the woods doing something.
There are alot guys my age and younger that just don't want it. I work underground in a coal mine and some of the younger guys that get hired in won't work near as hard as others and you have to babysit them and carry their load. I tell them all the time "You got to want it"
I don't think it's really a generation thing as much as a how you where raised and your what your values are.
My values in life are pretty much the same as they where when I was a kid as far as being in the woods. I just want to be there and if I have to walk alot further t ofind better game and get away from others then that is what I do.
As far as the comments about ATV's... Mine has sat in the garage for 3 years and not a thing wrong with it. I just prefer to slow down and enjoy whatever I may come across.
Guess I need to sell it and buy more bows and hunting camping gear LOL
Happy Thanksgiving, Stiks
Guys thanks for all the feedback. Bowwild you are spot on. Stiks and Strings, I agree with it is how we are raised. I work for Dept of Juvenile Justice here in KY, at a facility with youth who have substance addictions, and most have been raised by the TV, usually dad isnt in the picture, and mom tries hard. And this goes back 1 or 2 generations to the 70's it seems.
I think there are a few other factors that you have to take into account. I rarely see guys hunting small game anymore. It is harder to find places to hunt as well. When I was a kid, my beagle and I roamed from place to place. There were no property lines. Everyone knew you and you knew them and they were happy to see you. Now, most of that land is leased up for guys to kill BIG BUCKS.
I learned the woods, the trees and the animals roaming. I am afraid that the TV shows and videos has ruined much of that.
Merf
Well, this is a can of worms...
Bjorn nailed it hard as regards the history. Bowwild has two very neat perspectives from which to draw and likely could quote liscense sales and hunter safety participation to demonstrate decline in new hunters.
As a professional educator teaching in the wildlife and resource field I see some of this from a different view.
My students are dedicated to what it is theu do. They do it differently then we do/did but they are doing it. I have several students that have spent the better part of this Illinois bow season doing grunt work for some local outfitters just to get some on ground experience in the hunting industry.
Most of them have watched the vids and laugh at them. They do not seem to be "sold" by all the hype on equipment and in fact several have asked me to help them get set up with trad stuff because they think its cool to hunt that way.
OK, now here is the educator thing.... We are dealing at the college entry level with Generation Y. They are a different kind of duck compared to the Baby Boomers (Bjorn, me Charlie Lamb, etc born post WWII) or generation X (born starting in the 60's) Generation Y are the true "Latch Key kids. Ed psychologists have found it very difficult to "breakdown" the identification of this group. They would just as soon send a text to someone standing next to them as talk. In fact, out side their closest peer group, they have very little conversation.
I guess its just "goes around come around." Those of us who are older will always think the younger group is "slacking" a bit.
Huntschool,
That texting thing is amazing to me! A high school archery student sent me a text as I drove home from the World NASP tournament this past October 9th (I was resting in a hotel-I can barely drive when I drive let alone deal with a phone). I have no idea how the young fellow got my number and that such a kid would text someone my age. We had an interesting and positive exchange but I sure don't want many of those young'ns getting my number -- my phone plan doesn't cover the amount of texting they do!
Pre- season scouting, shooting your bows often as possible will reward the hunter with good luck.IMO.
Bowwild...
Oh, hell yeah... I sent a text to a student because I had no other way of contact and their opening reply was OMG You Text!!!
I have had my text plan increased twice due to it. We only really use it when we are working shoots or in the field so its not so bad...
But man you are right.....
Just a note: I have had 22 texts today from student and former students wishing my wife and I Happy Thanksgiving... Not all bad
I am not sure if it is lazy. I do know that a lot of things I endured growing up are now considered abuse by many. I can't believe how things have changed in a fairly short period of time. We got our knowledge with hands on experience. Today it is gained with the tool I am using in writing this post. Any subject is at your hands but you still have to put in the time to learn the skills needed to be succcessful.
I can let someone read about tracking or shooting until they are blue in the face. But until they try the real thing it is just stored information. Hard work and common sense can't be beat. I have seen people who were so smart with knowledge and couldn't get out of a shower of rain. That was what my grandfather would say to me and my brother.
I can't say that they weren't hunting because of being lazy, but it does seem that the younger people get (or the older I get) the lazier they are. I'm only 32 and I can notice how lazy the younger generation is.
As far as that being the reason for not hunting, I've only been a dozen or so times myself, but it is for exactly the opposite reason. I've been soaking up every bit of overtime that I can get so I can pay my home off and provide a good Christmas for my wife and 4 year old son.