Trad Gang

I have never shot a custom arrow in my life. Been trad. target shooting off and on for over 15yrs. I've always made my own and I'd like to stay with wood. I order bare POC that are matched to my 55# bow, stain, seal and RW helical fletch. My arrows hit the plate 80% of the time @ 20yds. but I'm wondering about the other 20% that miss. Seems I'm not getting really any better and wondering if the inconsistancies are more a result of the arrow and not shooting technique. Would it pay me to spend some big money(relatively speaking) for a dozen custom arrows just to maybe see? I don't have a $1000 allowance  :D   , Thanks.... Phil

One word for you. CARBON.

I would suggest you try either Surewood Douglas Fir shafts or Hildebrandt Sitka Spruce shafts.

These fir and spruce shafts seem to be of a higher quality than most of the POC available these days.

Charles.

Also,I've culled the arrows that aren't hitting the plate and have found that those arrows will maybe hit next go around. Wondering if its still a "bad arrow" but just got lucky shooting it again?....Phil

Carbon is good but good arrow is a good arrow regardless of material, and a crappy arrow........well you can guess the rest.
Do you bareshaft or paper tune to check?? Fletching hides a multitude of sins.

Bareshaft and paper who??? ...Phil

Do a couple of searches here arrows need to be tuned to the bow whther they are carbon, alu or wood.

If y ou are hitting a paper plate at 20 yards 80% of th time you are scoring at minimum a 252 on the NFA standard 20 yard target.  the 5 ring is 3" in diameter.  The 4 ring is 9" in diameter. I am giving you 24 arrows in the 5, 24 arrows in the 4 ring and 12 arrows in the 3 ring.  That is some pretty salty shooting.  What you need to do is carefully mark and then start culling arrows that don't hit 4 ring or better.  Just note which arrows miss and if you atart to see a pattern after 10 misses with the same arrow it is safe to determine that the arrow for some reason is not a match.  I did this back when i was shooting alot of woodies and even though they claim to all be the same spine and the same weight, there can still be differneces in the shafts.  When you do get your 12 arrows all shooting 4's or better your confidence level will go up dramatically.  And confidence is the biggest single factor to good shooting.

Sounds like my arrow making knowledge (especialy the nomenclature) needs to expand a bit. A bit more time at the bale would'nt hurt either    ....Phil

This may sound bad, But not intended to, how big is the plate?
If shooting a 9" plate at 20 yards and only hitting 80% then I would call it more form error than faulty arrow.
Try this, when you release arrow "do not" move your bow arm until after the arrow strikes the target.
I'll bet even those bad arrows will drastically improve.
Unless an arrow is way under or over spine, or your nock point is not right, I just can't see the arrow missing a 9" target 20% of the time without human error involved. Not at 20 yards.
Do yourself a favor check out this link to OL Adcocks bow tuning guide.
 http://bowmaker.net/index2.htm

Bjorn, sorry if I came across as curt and smart alecky. I thought at first when you asked, papertuning and bareshafting was a way to check for straightness and was too embarrassed to ask. So my next question is, whats a good spine tolerance(?) +/- pds. on a batch of woodshafts? Phil

Short answer is "yes", custom arrows vs. what we used to call "barrel arrows" (as in, "arrers are over there in thet barrel fer 69¢ each") will be noticably better.  BUT, a bad bow set-up will throw good and bad arrow poorly.

I enjoy making up cedar arrows and am willing to sacrifice some accuracy because I like everything about cedar arrows.  Just my odd tastes.  

By shooting bare shafts (points, but no fletch) at a piece of paper hung in a frame and observing the shape of the tears you can tune the bow.  You can do the same, mostly, shooting at a target from a short distance and seeing how the nocks align with eth tips.

It looks like a great link bawana bowman. I'll definately give it a good read.... Phil

Just want to reiterate,"I target shot off and on". Mainly off. Just getting back into it after laying off for several years. I know my technique needs work. Joining this forum I'm realizing I was developing some bad shooting habits. But I also realize my equipment needs tuning also. Just kinda wanting to start getting into it a little more seriously this time. Thanks all.....Phil

JMHO, but until you know your form is good and consistently so, I would not worry about your arrows any more than making sure spine is right.  Work on one thing at a time and get it right, then move to the next.

Or just shoot and have fun, that's what I do.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
Do a couple of searches here arrows need to be tuned to the bow whther they are carbon, alu or wood.

DITTO

I would say check your form and tuning set up first. And if those 20% are the bad hits after you shot the 80% first ,it's you and loos of focus after many shots.Any arrow(mostly) can be tuned with the bow to hit a pie plate.$120.00 carbons or aluminum will not make you shoot any better(maybe if you use wheels) I shoot wood only and I make my own and as long as I focus and make them tuned to the bow I hit the mark.In trad it's you almost always then the gear.JMHO

Some real good info for you here.I've shot cedars for 45 years and even though you think they're matched there could be alot of variances.Do you have a spine tester and grain scale ? and do you make sure they are dead straight? Plus what others have said the actual shooting process.Overall arrow weight plus added FOC weight can make a huge differance.
After so many years of shooting I make my arrows for me amd MY set-up and know what works for me.You'll get it ! besides this is what all the funs about.LOL

Threrea a differance between Custom arrows and Matched arrows....
   Make sure your Arrows are Matched Spine and weight....A Custom fancy paint job will not make them shoot any better.
   Work on your form and follow thru....
Then again, there nothing wrong with having a nice set of Custom Arrows they make ya feel better....
   Besides form, there is confidence, if you think your the best shot, you will be....If you think miss, you will....

Bad Arrow:

Where are you in KY?

Bad Arrow - Just a suggestion you may want to check. Even though your shafts are correctly spined, make sure that the grain is horizontal to the bow when on the string. If the shaft grain is vetical it will lead to inconsistant arrow flight.

LD

If you want to determine if it's you or the arrows, number the arrows and track which arrows miss the plate. If it's the same arrows every time, cull them out. make flu-flu's out of them or something and then build more arrows to fill the void. I find that 90% of my issues have to do with me. On occasion I find bad arrows buy the majority of the time they are already suspect during the arrow building process.

There is also the option of carbon. Generally speaking, if they are all built the same and you have the same results it's pretty much a guarantee that it's you.

archery is a free form aiming game, and consistency is the key word.  

imo, the overall most consistent arrow material uses some form of carbon/graphite shaft material.  

imo, the inherent problem with all wood shafting (and to some lesser degree, aluminum shafting) are both the stress and durability factors.  it's way too easy for woodies to lose any semblance of straightness during the process of shooting, and pulling from targets.  not to mention the extreme difficulty in matching a set of six woodies for weight, spine and straightness.  

and, no matter how well you think you've sealed wood shafting, it will be affected by temperature and humidity way far more than carbon or aluminum.

don't get me wrong - i *love* woodies and make them up by the dozens.  but for the right application and in the right manner.  

now, when working on form, and honing yer accuracy, you want to make sure those misses are due to *you* and not bum arrows.  it's a crap shoot of sorts if ya use woodies for that kinda shooting.

Hey Bruce, I'm in Ohio Co.(20 miles south of Owensboro) Thanks all for the great advice. I'm trying to take it all in.....Phil

I found out when buying cedar shafts by the dozen,your lucky if you can match 6 of them with the grain scale. I try if possible getting them within 10 grains, that improved my shooting a lot. When I get them they are raw cedar, release and form is also big to.

I found out when buying cedar shafts by the dozen,your lucky if you can match 6 of them with the grain scale. I try if possible getting them within 10 grains, that improved my shooting a lot. When I get them they are raw cedar, release and form is also big to.

If you think you need "custom" arrows and are already making your own cedars, why not make your own "custom" arrows?  The principles are pretty much the same---although the shaft material may be different.

I make my own "custom" arrows---and although I see some arrowmakers who are better at painting than I happen to be---none of them can make a better arrow for me than I can make for myself when it comes to performance.   Of course, they all could make one "as good"---and on the other side of the coin I haven't the expertise or interest in making custom arrows for anyone else the way they do.  Those custom arrowmakers are very good, but if you already have the tools etc.--why not give it a try?

i am with jarhead.sitka spruce tapered shafts from hildebrand worked for me.very high quality and straight.i can't say that about alot of the cedars i have bought,steve

I have noticed that I am more consistent with broadheads when I shoot aluminum rather than the wooden arrows I make.  Don't really know why, but it is there.  I have checked and rechecked my tuning, arrow construction, shaft straightness, etc,etc,etc but it is what it is.  So, I use aluminum for deer and turkey hunting and I use wood for everything else. I would suggest you try some aluminum or carbon arrows and see for yourself.

It is not the material it is the technique that counts-you can make crap out of any material. I only shoot wood now; but have tried the rest enough to know that when I miss it is me.

BA, when it comes to shooting well, arrows are way more important than the bow, altho good arrows will not make up for poor or inconsistent form.  The shaft is the heart and soul of the arrow.  There is nothing you can do to a crappy shaft to make a good arrow out of it.  It is great to make your own arrow, but be sure you start out with good matched shafts.  There are a few suppliers on here who can provide them; I'm one and there are others, too.  

Having the correct spine is important.  Weight is too, but not nearly so much.  Work with your supplier to get the right spine.  The formulas usually work well, but test arrows will tell you for sure what spine you need.  A five pound spine range, ie 55-59, is the standard.  55-60 is six pounds.  With paper tuning, I can get a 3 pound range that will shoot bullet holes, beyond that I can start to see some tear.  Fletching will make up for the pound or two, tho.  If you want to talk about arrows, give me a call.

my thinking is that most shafts are sold by spine but not by weight some places sell by spine and +-10 grains of weight you might try that

Call the gentleman at ELITE ARROWS (Jon Paul I think).He has a SPONSOR page.This man has forgotten more about arrosmithing than most of us know.He builds increditbly accrurate arrows.

Contact Derek Herring at Bounty Hunter Traditional Arrows.He makes some great arrows both POC and the new Ironwoods carbons. Your scores  will jump.

Bad Arrow,
I sent you a PM regarding the bow arm and follow-through -- keeping the bow arm active throughout the shot is important but very difficult to do.

The only arrow that will help you is the correct arrow. Custom or from walmart, doesn't matterwhich.