Does anyone have any experience with using primitive broadheads? I want to make my own obsidian or glass points through flintknapping, but know almost nothing about how reliable they are for hunting. What precautions need to be taken with using one of them, and what testing would need to be done to ensure they're hunting worthy?
Well...I saw Tred Barta kill two Caribou with them.
They are deadly sharp, and it shouldn't be an issue.
i just had some obsidian heads made for me by Ryan Gill{twistedlimbs}.they are very sharp and fly great.they are fragile though.they are pretty tough,but you have to put covers on them while they are in your quiver so they don't get chipped hitting each other.his website is www.gillsprimitivearchery.com.check (http://www.gillsprimitivearchery.com.check) out his site.you can at least get design ideas from him.he makes some 135gr diamond heads that are a thing of beauty.hope this helps you.if you have anymore questions,feel free to shoot me a pm.good luck,steve
They are extremely sharp! You should check your game laws for some states do not allow you to hunt with them.Mine is one of them.
ipcjon2 is right.you have to check the laws.here in ohio,some stone points with shoulders for tieing on the heads is considered a barbed point.thats why i was telling you about Ryan Gills diamond points.they are not barbed and may be legal in your state,steve
You bet they work, A good, sharp stone point will kill them ever bit as well as a metal point will.
Design of the head makes a big difference in performance, sometime you can be limited to state laws as others have said.
Took this doe on National forest earlier this year.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/selfbow1/100_1208-1.jpg)
and the point I used on her
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/selfbow1/100_1202-1-1.jpg)
Glass and obsidion are what I used when I first started knapping and they work fine. I have switched to chert, it is a little tougher. The design of the point is very important, the shape of choice for modern points is a side notched point like the one in the picture. Bill
Obsidian and dacite are both a volcanic rock. Fairly easy to work with, make a sharp but not very durable point. The point above was made of raw Reed Springs flint from northwest Arkansas. Tough stuff, and holds an edge well. In fact that point broke ribs on both sides and was still sharp. I touched up the edge a little, re-halfted it and hunting with it again.
I've killed deer with obsidian, dacite, keokuck, Reed Springs, and Texas flint. All of them worked, but the raw, tough flint out performed the obsidian and cooked rock hands down.
In Kansas it is now legal. I would strongly suggest that you DO NOT use obsidian. it is way to fragile. get some flint or chert. I shoot heavy shafts in the 700 grain area. Our heads have to be a minimum of 7/8" wide and i would reccomend that you do not go any wider than this. I shoot 63# in the 160-170 FPS range and have never had a pass through even with these small heads. If given a chance wait for a 1/4ering away shot and enter through the stomach. I have had good luck when i hit ribs but it really limits penetration. Where as i normally wait 30 minutes before i go after a bow shot deer, i wait a minimum of 45 on flint shot deer. reason is the smaller wound channel. There are many good nappers in most all areas of the country. I paid 3-5 buck a piece for the heads that i use. but i bought a coupe dozen at a time. don't get too concerned about the wieght, if it varies 30 grains you will never know the difference. Water proof your sinew with deer kidney fat and still be prepared to hunt for the head in the lungs of the animal. No matter how much you want too DO NOT use the same head twice. i lost a 12 yard turkey this spring with a succesfully used flint head on a deer last year. the point broke when i made a direct hit on the wing butt joint. I don't normally hit that exactly where i am looking. for the life of me couldnn't figure out what had happened until i got the arrow back, saw the point and remembered the prior use. i had hit a rib on the deer going in, but the point appeared to be okay.
Stone points worked fine for 25,000 years, give or take a few centuries, until metal broadheads were developed. Don't see why you couldn't use them effectivly, providing legality.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Osagetree/TwoSnakes13.jpg)
Thanks for all the replies! Looks like I'll be shopping for some professionally made ones as I found out it's much harder than it looks!
Bondo and Osagetree, thank you for the awesome pictures! Hopefully next fall I'll be able to be practiced enough to take a deer with one. Speaking of practice, what's the best way to practice with them?
Batty, I shoot mine into a styrofoam target some guys shoot them into a sand pile. I was also told that foam for funiture made good stone head targets.
Stiks
I make all my own points, so I actually make a set at the same grain I plan on hunting with and shoot them into anything from a two inch piece of foam taken from a broadhead target, to an actual 3d target. After I am satisfied with the result, I put on some new ones, and I'm ready to go.
The practice heads
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/selfbow1/100_1127.jpg)
The replacements
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/selfbow1/003-1.jpg)
If you have access to a small pond with a mucky bottom, you can try out your arrows there. Float a leaf or aim at a piece of algae about 3 feet off shore. Go down along the shore until you are 10 -15 yds. away and let them fly. The points will probably stick in the mud a couple of inches but will not be damaged. Retrieve the arrows with a leaf rake. Paticularly with self arrows, you will find that a few will not fly well at all.
I have shot mine into the big generick styrofoam archery target Wal-mart sells. I used artificial sinew for the lashing and it started to frey some after the 4th or 5th shot.
I just shot mine enough to make sure they flew true.
Well, once I get a few points made, I'll post pictures. Is there any interest in me posting pictures of my failures :banghead: along the way?
I killed a deer this year with a keokuk point that I knapped. I had a real steep angle on this deer an only got one lung, Found my deer about 150 yds away, I used a cane arrow an it never broke until deer fell over on it, hafted with pine pitch glue an sinew, point is stiil tight as when I hafted it. Knapping is highly addictive an yea it's not easy but real rewarding. Take your time an have fun. Later Bob
The Cahokia point style that Bondo has photos of, I feel are about the most efficient style for shear penetration. There are other styles such as a St. Charles Dove Tail that are stronger but they do not penetrate as well. Once again Bondo is right about flint over Obsidian. Obsidian is easier to chip but it is also much more brittle thus making it more prone to breakage. The better flints are those that are raw with a high silica content. Some examples would be Flint Ridge Chalcedony, Knife River, many of the Texas flints, Burlington, Indiana Hornestone, Carter Cave, ect.
As far as practicing with them I feel that blue board insulation layered up is about the best. It will not even dull you point.
Lastly, The point is only as good as the arrow. It must be hafted in a strong fashion, either in a primitive manner or modern with epoxy. To add to this when hafting it must be hafted in a manner that when you spin the arrow it must spin true.