I see guys with two string silencers on each end and a couple of those limbsaver thingys stuck on the limbs trying to make their 'curve quiet.
Speed be damned, who makes a naturally quiet recurve?
Too Many Variables, String Strand, Composition and Tuning have ALOT to do with it...
Assenheimer...as quiet as it gets.
My GN Ghost is pretty quiet with a D-97 string and one set of Woolie Whispers.
dunno who makes one, but Terry Green's BowHush and HushPuppys work on my Red Wing 58",50# @28, with a 12 strand string.You can see both on the bow (21st shot/powwow)
Good Luck with the search though!
Assenheimer is known for a quiet curve. Then again, I have owned two of the same model, set up the exact same, shooting the same arrow and one is noticebly quietier then the other. I have come to accept the fact that some particular bows are just louder then others. And then there is that moving target question; exactly what is considered loud :rolleyes:
JL
I have shot a number of really good recurves over the last ten years. The quietest have always been B50 dacron string bows. An older Border in particular. Of the newer FF models I once had a Horne Ridgerunner that was very quiet, but again the quietest ones have been the two new Borders with HEX4 and XP30 limbs. Both are 62" take down recurves and probably the fastest bows I have ever owned. They both have one set of woolie silencers installed and that is all. I believe the strings are currently D97's. I am sure there may be others just as quiet but probably not as fast. As BigRonHuntAlot said, there are many variables.
Louis
I have a Sovereign Ballistick with static limbs and it is extremely quiet with just beaver balls.
Zipper
I agree with rbhunt, I had a Ballistik for awhile and it was the quietest recurve I've seen. It's not a slow bow either.
I second on the Borders. I haven't had a critter duck one yet.
Assenheimer Quiet and smoooth!
Two ballistiks and both are very quiet, even with no silencers.
I have 2, 40 year old Shakesepare Kaibabs that are very quiet with very little silencing.
John,
Kahauna hunter is a very quiet recurve. If you want to shoot it let me know and I'll bring it to the next Itba shoot
Heavy silencers have a negative effect on speed. so here are a few tips to silence bows without the added weight.
Most bows are draw length sensitive quieter at one drawlength than another. Straight'ish sections just prior to the nock create what I call pre-slap and this bit is more particular to draw length the longer the draw the greater is the pre-slap of string on limb as the styring angle is increased and the Flatish section exagerated. The flat needs to be rounded so the string can wrap insetad of slap. Here, a bit of soft Sticky backed Velcro at the strategic location can fix it. It takes some of the thump but also helps to create or improve the radius that the string wraps around. You don't need more than an inch of material and often less.
After slap occurs when the string moves past brace height on the follow through during the after-shot (as the string finsihes wraping the recurve). This is often brace height adjustable. Here again again Soft Velco can be used just under the string to take the thump of the string but more importantly create the space for the string to come to rest without catching the string on the limb. The Velcro is placed just as the string leaves the limb at brace height.
Result minimal materail used and minimal weight to reduce the negative reduction in arrow velocity.
No need at all to put soft material in the recurve groove. Once the string is wraping then there is no noise.
String silencers are there to remove string hum as the string vibrates to rest.
Almost always pre-slap or after-slap is the cultrit of sharp noise.
Later XP30,HEX4 and HEX5 limbs have been designed to significantly reduce Pre and After string slap.
The higher energy the bow obviously the greater the noise.
Hope this helps, spent many, many hours finding this out. with the HEXIII and HEXIV designs.
You can use this to reduce Brace height and gain some speed. We developed 3/8" dia foam sticky backed buttons to hold the string from the limb in the after-slap location they also act in a limited way as brush bottons or more like grass buttons.
Weight on the limb has about half the effect on arrow speed as the same weight on the string.
Sid
Sid,Thanks for that very concise explanation.I believe that the semi-static limb design of Mark Hornes' recurves,which promote 'wrap' & minimize 'slap' greatly contribute to the quietness of my Combo Hunter.I haven't had the opportunity to shoot one of your bows yet,but I'm certainly looking forward to it.
Sorry to get into this a little late but I too have a Sovereign Ballistick and it is very quiet without silencers. The only thing quieter that I have shot is my Sovereign Trident. It is the quietest bow going for me.
Interesting that some folks posted suggestions for making their bows quieter, but the original post was "who makes one quiet to begin with."
I'm trying to get a feel for design here. My longbows are all whisper quiet, and if I could find a recurve design that was, I'd sure consider buying one.
Thanks for the replies.
John,
The Border bows with HexIV limbs, and probably HexV, too, are very quiet. Another bow I've owned and shot is the Dale Stahl T/D recurve.
One thing I've found is the 450+ string makes for a quiet bow. Dale Stahl ships all of his bows with a 450+ string. I've also found a TS-1+ string to be even quieter still. I've shot the TS-1+ string on a variety of recurves and longbows and have found the bows to be very quiet even without silencing materials on the string.
So, there really is a two part answer to your question. Some are inherently quiet by design, the Borders and Stahl bows, for example, and nearly all can be made quiet using the proper string, properly setting brace height and using properly tuned arrows.
Bill
John,
I hope you don't think I am trying to be smart for I don't intend to be. I thought Sid's response as to why recurves make string noise and how the recurve limb tip design will help to eliminate it was in part an answer to your question. He said, and I quote, "The newer XP30, HEX4, and HEX5 limbs have been designed to significantly reduce the pre and after string slap." It makes sense since most responses to your post have been bows that have radical recurve limb tips. Sovereign bows have static limb tips that bend radically, Horne bows have semi-static limb tips that bend rather radically, and Border XP30, HEX4, and HEX5 limbs bend radically at the tips. Now that I think of it I used to shoot a Chastain take down that was really quiet and they have radical recurve limb tips. If the string has to wrap it cannot slap. I would think that would be an answer to your design question would it not? I don't know if there is a recurve that is totally quiet with bare string. Longbow strings do not touch the limbs much, if at all, when braced and therefore do not have as significant string noise problem as do recurves.
Louis
Two weeks ago at a shoot, everyone said my Arroyo was quiet. It also has static limbs.
You could always shoot a longbow? just a sugestion
I agree the Ballist and other statics like it are pretty quiet.I don't have a problem useing silencers on my bows however and the quietest I have seen or shot is my Morrison ILF with glass/foam limbs.I can get most quiet if they don't have carbon in them with a handfull of wool.I don't want any recurve with carbon if I plan on hunting with it however.
UK: I have shot a longbow for 45 years. That's why I insist on a quiet recurve.
Louis: I understand the tuning and silencing involved, I own and have shot Bear bows for many moons. Just trying to find one that doesn't need it. I understand the Physics involved.
I know everyone is trying to help. Maybe I didn't offer enough information to begin with.
James brings up a great point about Carbon in recurve limbs...and he's shot most everything out there.
You hear a ton of guys talking about how they can quiet down their ILF limbs with carbon in them...
...but the plain and simple truth is...
By the time you get those carbon limbs quiet they're slower than the maple glass ILF limbs (don't know about the glass/foam like the Sebastian Flutes). And, carbon produces a higher sound frequency that is more apt to spook game, even if you can't notice it. (Think dog whistle)
I can remember Limbwalker (John Magera) talking about his preference for glass/maple ILF limbs on his "Frankenbows" years ago.
Now, the glass/maple ILF longbow limbs that Lancaster is coming out with as part of their "Tradtech" line should be very easy to quiet down.
My RER Arroyo is very quiet without any type of silencers on it.
My Zipper's are "naturally" quiet but my Thermal is hands down the quietest recurve I've ever shot. It's longbow quiet.
I like the Great northern Curves for quiet shooting.I think the narrow, deep cored limbs dampen out noise and vibration pretty effectivly.I had 2 of them.1 was particularly quiet..Its also a nice recurve for a guy who shoots longbows as well.Has a longbow feel to it.
The quietest recurve I ever owned without a doubt was my Kohannah 58" Kurve. The quietest recurve I ever shot was a Robertson Peregrine. This being said I only shoot hybrid longbows now.
An old Zipper (non fastflight), is my quietest.
My W. Wallaces, Robertson Visions, a Morrison and some Foxes I used to own were all very quiet recurves. That said, I don't think any true recurve would be quiet enough for hunting without some kind of silencers on the string, as I've heard some longbows are. I only use the mini woolie whisper silencers on mine, plus some moleskin in the string grooves.
RER Arroyo gets my vote. I have shot lots of bows as most of ya know and with its static limb design it is very quiet and smokin' quick. I actuall put two sets of silencers on it to slow it down some to get the arrow flight I wanted with the carbons I shoot and braced it a tad higher as well. It is a whisper now. Shawn
My Morrison's are the quietest I've shot, especially Bob's newest limb design. I do wrap the contact point of my string with bowhush to help minimize the slap. Coupled with a TS+ string, I think it's about as quiet as a recurve can get..so far.
As for fita limbs being noisey, I've shot a bit with a warfed W&W carbon limbed recurve and didn't find it hard to quiet at all. I've also shot around some fita limbed fellers and properly tuned, I think they are as quiet as most conventional limbed recurves.
I'm not quite as extreme as James...but no carbon for me in hunting 'curves...
I've got a Turkey Creek Lb that double carbon, though, and EASILY among the top five quietest bows I've owned...and that includes a number of Hill's and Hill Style bows...
...and I really do think there's something to the higher frequency theory...
Though the day after I put one of those gimmick "deer whistles" that are supposed to protect your truck from collisions, I had a doe leap out in front of me. Scientifically inconclusive, though, lol...'cause maybe the whistle just caused her to panic...
As for the quietest wood recurve I've ever shot...I'd say the Dale Dye Trail's End 'curves get the nod. Pretty darn easy on the eyes too.
I know Dale shoots his own bow with just one set of those 'widder spiders...
I had Tippit and 4runr here last week shooting the new Swan Hybrid(I know not a recurve) with nothing on the string but a nock. Adjusted to 7.5" brace and they were amazed at how quiet that carbon bow was.
My Horne Mountain bow is whisper quiet. DF97 string with beaver fur silencers. I could have almost shot it without silencers.
My Marriah Thermal is the quietest bow that I have ever shot.
BD
Just one other academic crack at this.
Pre-slap occurs as the string meets the limb just at and under the nock. The part of the limb with the least curve. The arrow is on the string and accelerating. No noise from vibration is possible at this stage.
Post-Slap occurs as the string is going past brace height and decelerating and the arrow is only now just leaving the string. No noise from vibration possible at this stage.
String starts to rerurn from it's over-travel and heading back to Brace height and goes beyond like a pendulum. No vibrational noise at this stage either but oscillation has already began.
While the string movement in distance is great then little or no noise is generatied. As the amplitude of back and forward movement of the string reduces the frequency increases and noise from oscillation begins and noise is produced.
String silencers break up this oscillating system lowering and dampening the string movement and hence kills the noise as it is reducing the time that oscilation takes place.
A lightweight string and limbs will oscillate naturally at a higher resonance and will stop quicker due to the lack of weight/momentum in the oscillating system. In theory it will take less of an interference from silencing systems to slow the system and stop it as there are less forces involved in the lightweight vibrating structure to keep it going. This means a higher output in arrow performance as silencing systems are smaller. (From another argument normally associated with arrow weight but the same issue really KE can be high but momentum is low and it's the momentum that takes the stopping)
The heavier limb and string set-up does the oposite.
Since the frequency of oscilation (not related to noise levels that being a volume issue) is what dictates the frequency and silencers either due to wind resitsance, light weight puff-balls, or vibrating interference such as cats whiskers will slow the speed of oscilation then the frequency can be controled to any level and the amount of silencing material/influence is often less for the lightweight system.
The greatest noise problems with recurves is pre and post slap. Both longbows and recurves suffer equally fron frequency noise as the string comes to rest. As testified by quite a few owners, many bowyers have already adjusted their recurve designs to substancially resolve the noise issue. Some bowyers have not. Some archers have a technique and bow tune that creates more noise than others. The greater the energy in the sytem draw weight or draw length the greater the residual energy that is left in the system and the greater the noise level.
All can be noise reduced but at what cost? Good bows are good bows and the others?
Done my bit and I'm sure that some of the generalisations use will be misquoted.
Sid
The quietest recurve today is a Black Sheep. A well known shooter just tested one with a 12 strand 8125 string, put the brace height all over the place and could not get it to make noise.
Last weekend at the Iowa Trad shoot, I let my friend shoot it for a round and not only did he say it was THE most impressive bow he had ever shot, he couldn't believe how quiet it was, even with 330 gr arrows!
The first comment I always get is how quiet it is.
Limbsavers at the fadeouts (they were on the limbs when I got them), maple/glass limbs and nothing on the string.
black sheep? where is that made?
Bear's Paw classic recurve and Hummingbirds . Both have been very quite for me and I shoot 3 under . I do think the Bear's Paw may have been a little more quite that the hummingbird but both were good.
Mike
If you haven't try a Border bow you can't imagine what a trad bow can be
John --
They are made in the land of cheese and I think a run of them is about to be made.
CNC'd 21" Riser that takes ILF limbs.
Comes with a grip like the modern compounds....no torque. It has been out on a limited scale for quite awhile now. The guy who makes them was just getting a little feed back, before he started making more.
No special fittings or bushings, just click and go and scary quiet.
Hank can you tell us why that riser would be quieter with ilf limbs than all the others out there?Since it is useing the same limbs as others how can it be quieter than all the others? :confused:
I'll get the popcorn.
super shrew scout very quiet
Assenhiemer, are not the fastest bows but both of mine are dead quiet, One is a 64" hunter and the other is 62", Don's bows are nice to look at an shoot really well for me and are reasonably priced. They work for me.
A static recurved selfbow....end of story, end of report. :readit: