I use a Summit SOP harness. I only hunt out of ladder stands and every time I get to the platform I have to wrap the tree rope around the tree before I hook up to the Prusik knot. I don't know much about rope or knots, just fishing knots, so I need advice. I want to be able to have the tree hookup rope already on the tree. I'd also like to forego the Prusik and just attach to a loop.
Could I just use some 7/16 Kernmantle with loops at both ends. I'd put the rope around the tree and feed one loop through the other (like the Summit system uses) and then attach my carabiner to the dangling loop when I get to the platform. If I position it correctly I won't need the Prusik.
Two questions. Will this be strong and safe enough? If it will, what kind of knots for the loops?
The rope would work as you describe as long as there was always tension on it but I doubt that will be the case, especially when you leave it in the tree when your not there. I would have a length with one loop and put the tag end through and cinch it up and tie it off with a couple of half hitches. You could then hook your carabiner directly to the rope.
tie a figure 8 knot in your rope 4-6 from the end depending on the diameter of the tree you are in. Wrap the tree twice and then retrace the knot backwards. That will keep the rope at the correct height. Make a prussik knot on a loop of seperate rope, smaller than your main one, and leave it on the main rope. Tie off the bottom of your rope. When you get to your stand, slip your carabiner into the loop and climb up, slipping the prussik knot up with you. You can only fall the distance of your loop if you slip and have protection from the time you leave the grond. Go to www.animatedknots.com (http://www.animatedknots.com) and watch how to tie the knots. It is easy and will not seize up on you. If you live near a climbing store, they will be able to whip up a couple of the loops for you. Tell them the diameter of the main rope and they will make them correctly for you. It is not a bad idea to have another with you just in case, you can use it to climb up or down the rope if the stand collapses on you. A little more elaborate than what you asked, a bunch safer. I had a stand break and was doing some scrambling before I got down, used some of the rescue knowledge from a couple of courses and use this system everytime now. Cost is about $25.00 per stand. I use 25-30 ft of rope and 2 loops made out of 4 and 6 ft lengths per set up.
Terry
VTer, if I understand correctly, wouldn't the rope be tight to the tree and difficult to get the carabiner hooked to?
Bowshot, I understand your concern and have thought about a full length safety rope, however, with my ladder stands I'm too far from the tree most of the way up to be able to reach a safety rope and slide a Prusik. I actually have the AnimatedKnots App on my iphone which is a great help.
As long as the cinched up part of the rope is to the stand side you will be able to get your carabiner on the rope where the tag end of the rope is holding the loop away from the tree equal to the thickness of your rope.
On those type of stands, I anchor the bottom to something near the base of the stand so the rope is beside the ladder, just a suggestion. I never thought about the app, thanks, its on my nerd phone now too!
Terry
VTer, I got it.
Bowshot, I'll see what is available at my stands. That would mean no more going up with one hand with my bow in my other hand!
I use that system and I don't understand your problem, I hook the rope above my stand, tie the bottom of the rope to the bottom of the stand, and just hook to the prussic knot and go, I see no issue in using the prussic and do not know how it could be any easier.
I agree--Prussic knots are super easy and a great knot to learn--right up there with the sheep shank!
Why are you climbing with a bow in one hand?
I've had a few close calls with climbing stands beginning with the old Bakers and fixed stands and tree steps. I am fortunate to be able to use ladder stands now since I am hunting my own land. Climbing a ladder is not much more difficult then climbing stairs. I usually climb up with one hand (I could climb the ladder with no hands easily) and when I get up a few rungs from the platform I reach up and hang my bow on it's hook. Then I have to stand on the platform and reach up and wrap the Summit line around the tree and get it positioned before I hook up to it. So, getting the tree line wrapped above my head is the most dangerous part of the process. Also, a Prusik does not appear to me to be as solid as a good loop would be. After all, it is meant to slide and if I fall that is the last thing I want. I'm just wondering about a system where I can rich up with one hand and hook up to a rope already there and secure.
I know how to tie a Prusik. Maybe I'll tie a line off high and bring it straight down and tie it off right above my seat with the Prusik at the seat. I ca then hook up before climbing the rest of the way up.
The summit instructions say to tie a knot below the Prusik so it can't slip past it. That is in addition to the knot at the end of the safety rope. Doesn't inspire confidence.
Climbing a ladder stand (or any stand) using one hand is kind of tempting fate. Climbing a ladder stand using no hands would be worse than that. Why take a chance? A pull up rope is quick and easy to use for your bow and frees up one more hand to climb safely. Do it for your family if not for yourself. We would prefer for you to be around this site for a long, long time! :) :wavey:
QuoteOriginally posted by J-KID:
The summit instructions say to tie a knot below the Prusik so it can't slip past it. That is in addition to the knot at the end of the safety rope. Doesn't inspire confidence.
The prusik grabs the bigger rope almost instantly so in a fall you wouldn't even notice it. Especially since the tethers are designed to break away to lessen the shock on your body. I'm sure the knot below the prusik per Summits instructions are to keep the prusik from coming off the rope while not in use.
I tie my main line off to base of ladder.
add a couple of drop lines from your seat platform. for the bow line tie a 5"loop at the end of one of your lines. Pass line and loop between bow and string and put loop over bow tip and snug down. I have mine set so bow hangs above the ground.
I also tie the bottom of my safety rope to the ladder of ladder stands. Usually to the side rail about 5 feet from the ground. Hook the harness to the prussic while standing on the ground and then climb and slide the prussic every couple of rungs. The bottom tie off serves only to keep the rope taught enough to facilitate sliding the prussic. It does not even need to be tied to anything to stop your fall. Also guilty of climbing with gear and bows sometimes instead of using a haul rope - but love having a safety line at all times from the ground to the ground again. No chance of falling - or at least of falling to the ground. Climbing and transitioning from the stand to climbing are the two most dangerous times for falls. Be safe, install and use the full system.
QuoteOriginally posted by Shaun:
Climbing and transitioning from the stand to climbing are the two most dangerous times for falls. Be safe, install and use the full system.
Think about all the ladders we climb without safety ropes and harnesses. We carry up stuff to clean gutters, gallons of paint and bundles of shingles!
I agree that the dangerous part is the last few steps and transitioning to the platform. I'll rig up so I can tie off before the transition. Believe me, I know I am as vulnerable as the next guy to a fall and that is why I wear a full body harness and am questioning a static connection over the Prusik. I don't want to fall someday and discover the Prusik sliiiiiips.....................!
good info. here especially the how to tie knots web site. Thanks Bowshot.
Anyone recommend what size millmeter rope to use for the stands??
Maxwell
From what I can tell arounnd 11mm for main line and 8mm for Prusik knot.
I use 7mm prussik cord on 11mm line
8mm prussik cord on 12.5mm line
the larger the difference in line sizes is what makes the prussik more effective in gripping
Terry
Be careful not to tie your line too tight while tieing it to the base of the tree or your ladder. The prussic works because the line the knot is on must be loose.
QuoteOriginally posted by J-KID:
I know how to tie a Prusik. Maybe I'll tie a line off high and bring it straight down and tie it off right above my seat with the Prusik at the seat. I ca then hook up before climbing the rest of the way up.
The summit instructions say to tie a knot below the Prusik so it can't slip past it. That is in addition to the knot at the end of the safety rope. Doesn't inspire confidence.
no knot up high it is on the end to keep the prussic from slipping off, the system is to keep you hooked from the ground up and back. tie at the bottom of ladder and hook to it while on the ground and don't take it loose until you are back on the ground.
i also use a SOP but changed to using 2 ropes so I am always attatched to the tree ,when i get to a limb or the stand i swap ropes, i use tree gaffs quite a bit when not using ladders, and that keeps me with a rope on the tree even going around the stand going in or out of it, i chunked the sop rope and am using a smaller diamater climbing rope and a prusik also out of a smaller diamater but higher capacity, with aluminumn lockable carabiners, i saved weight and have a stronger safer set up. a few years ago I fell 18 feet and take every precaution i can now. i was lucky to walk away from that fall.
QuoteOriginally posted by Dave Lay:
i chunked the sop rope and am using a smaller diamater climbing rope and a prusik also out of a smaller diamater but higher capacity, with aluminumn lockable carabiners, i saved weight and have a stronger safer set up. a few years ago I fell 18 feet and take every precaution i can now. i was lucky to walk away from that fall.
Dave,
Where is the best place online to purchase the aluminum lockable carabiners and smaller diameter rope. Also, what diameter/type rope did you get for mainline and Prusik?
another option is HSS sells extra either ropes or belts that you leave in your trees so no matter wat stand (if u have multiple) you go to there is a place to clip in dont need to bring it with you all the time. The strap model gets strapped to the tree and has the caribiner on it already so you would just hook up very easy and really nice to not have to brin gin and out every time
If you guys with these setups to stay hooked up from the ground all the way to your seat could post a few pics of your setup, that would be VERY helpful :thumbsup:
i bought the rope and carabiners at a outdoor speciality shop that handles climbing,and hiking gear, not sure of the diamiater but i told the fellow in the store what i was doing, he had all the rope specs and i am way below the rated capacity and am using quite a bit smaller rope than SOP uses, i will try to edit in pics of the rope.. i use two of these and stay connected at all times.. you will notice i have the open end of the carabiner painted yellow, that is just to be sure i have it turned correctly when opening it..
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj94/stykbow1/100_36841.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj94/stykbow1/100_36831.jpg)
I am not sure about the prussic knot, it wants to slip on a already rigged safety rope I bought. I started using a Petzel Tibloc on my harness, simple piece of equipment climbers use with no moving parts, really works well. I tie my rope to the bottom of the tree or ladder stand and the top, then I am hooked in all the way.
QuoteOriginally posted by J-KID:
QuoteOriginally posted by Shaun:
Climbing and transitioning from the stand to climbing are the two most dangerous times for falls. Be safe, install and use the full system.
Think about all the ladders we climb without safety ropes and harnesses. We carry up stuff to clean gutters, gallons of paint and bundles of shingles!
I agree that the dangerous part is the last few steps and transitioning to the platform. I'll rig up so I can tie off before the transition. Believe me, I know I am as vulnerable as the next guy to a fall and that is why I wear a full body harness and am questioning a static connection over the Prusik. I don't want to fall someday and discover the Prusik sliiiiiips.....................! [/b]
I use the line all the way to the ground on all of my stands. Most of them are ladder stands, and yes, at first it did seems like overkill. But no matter how safe it might seem, stuff happens when climbing ladders in the dark, sometimes while the steps are wet or even ice covered. Heck, all it takes is one slip and you are on the ground wondering what happened.
I decided that the cost of a rope all the way to the ground was cheap insurance for that one time I might end up as a clutz. Why take a chance when it is so easy to be safe.
Good point about the dark and ice Whip. I'm going to give the full length rope a try on one of my stands. I wish someone would give specifics on type and diameter of ropes (mainline and Prusik) to buy as I can't find a local store that carries climbing equipment.
j-KID Try rei.com expert advice section. Spec sheets are on the site also. Specific climbing gear is much higher grade than hardware stuff as a rule.DO NOT reduce your rope diameter without KNOWING the specs and weight ratings. Also there are lots of climbing magazines at the stores with useful articles that can apply to hunting. You tube has how to videos for most knots ever thought of that you can find in their search.
I'll check out REI. I have some rope that "appears" to be similar, however, I don't want to use anything that is not specifically made for the purpose (that includes hardware store varieties). I got the knot app mentioned earlier so knots will be easy.
I've been researching the Prusik knot on the Internet and reading actual scientific research articles written on the characteristics of the Prusik. There appear to be many conditions which can cause the Prusik to fail including rope material, rope stiffness, ropes that are exposed to below freezing temps, rope diameter ratio of main line to Prusik, etc. I'll ask the experts at REI and also ask about alternatives.
I found some specifics for main line and Pursik cord diameters.
I ordered my supplies through Eastern Mountain Sports as they had the best prices with everything in the store at 20% off.
Sterling Static Line, Black, 7/16 (11mm), 8,000 lb., $.76 per foot
Sterling Accessory Cord, Red, 8mm, 3,300 lb., $.48 per foot
Petzel am'D Triact Lock Carabiner (2.6 oz., fast auto lock), Black with gold coupler, $13.56
(much lighter than one supplied with SOP harness and fast secure lockup)
Hope this helps someone looking to set up their own safety ropes at multiple locations.