Trad Gang

I know we all love the 17yd broadside double lung right in the 12ring. I love it too. how about when the deer is almost under the stand. Do you have the confidence to make the shot? Started practicing this shot out of a stand in my yard awhile back. Weird at first, but after some time working on it. I feel just as good at hitting my mark as I do at 20yds, and I feel real good at 20. I guess what i'm trying to say is that a spine shot deer is just as good as a double lunger. I'm 6 for 6 with this method and only one ran and then only 25yds. that one was one lung and liver with super sharp 2blade. I saw him stop and crash. Not trying to start a war about shot placement, just saying that if you practice this shot and know your limitations, it will work and give you more shot opportunities. DB

Poor shot selection in my book.  If you miss the spine they can travel a loooooong ways with one lung.  It's low percentage any way you look at it.

There was a thread discussing this same thing about a week ago.

I tried it once .....my stand height was at 10 feet...... so bending over for the shot literally right under me......I had a toal pass through .....missed the spine.......maybe 1 lung........ Deer traveled at least 300yds - with very little blood on the ground . I don't recommend it ....doesn't mean I wouldn't try it again .

I practice every possible shot I can in my yard out of a tree.I know if you hit that spine they stop drop and you drag-em out.I don't see a problem if you are confident in the shot.Accuracy is the key and if you have it then do it.I'm sure people lost deer to bad shots at perfect ranges and no angles involved.its what you practice for that makes the decision in my book.

No thank you, Not worth the risk in my book. Did it once on a doe 65# bow no blood trail and didn't find the doe for a couple of days.

I'm glad it worked for you and everything came out ok but I will pass and wait on a better shot.

Tracy

DON'T DO IT. It only leads to self regret. I hate looking for deer that I knew better than to take that shot! Only my opinion. I don't think most of us can make that shot consistantly enough to risk wounding an animal know matter how big it is!
GLENN

Here's the link below to the story and pics of a buck I killed on Oct. 4 of this year. He was 6 yards from the base of my tree to my right and I was 15 feet up. I hit him right where I was aiming just to the left of his spine. My two blade Magnus went all the way to his heart and was sticking out of his chest right behind his right front leg. He went 40 yards and stopped and then staggered and fell.

I never doubted taking the shot for a minute. Just try and stay away from the shoulder area towards the front part of the deer at that much of an angle.

The arrow penetrated all the way to the fletching but the arrow was very loose in the deer and backed out some after the deer went down. I easily pulled the arrow on through before I moved the deer.

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=094630

Not for me I don't like the angle.

no

killed a buck that way one year w/ the wheelie bow 3 yards from the base of the tree or less and he ran 20 yards and fell over

shot another w/ wheelie and 3 yards from the base of tree and he only went 75 yards

i wouldnt even hesitate to take that shot

i think the key is super sharp broadheads

QuoteOriginally posted by Apex Predator:
Poor shot selection in my book.  If you miss the spine they can travel a loooooong ways with one lung.  It's low percentage any way you look at it.

I agree with Apex.

I've killed 3 deer and a real big boar hog with the straight down shot. All were hit in the spine between the shoulders. So far I've never missed the spine, but I try to angle shot to have a chance at the heart if I miss the spine.

Nope not for me.... too small a target.  Double lungs is the high % shot...

       $.02...

Joe

I have no problem with the shot if you feel you can make it.  What I wonder though when ever I hear guys talking about this shot is why did you wait until you got your self into this predicament any way?  
Which always leads to the second question which is, "If you waited this long to shoot, why not wait a few seconds more and take the really high percentage shot?"  
I am a very consistent 50 plus out of 60 in the 5 ring archer, but those few in the 4 ring are always in the back of my mind when I am about to take the life of a living creature.
When we give up the training wheels we also must accept a higher degree of personal responsibility to the animals we hunt.

Let your concience be your guide, but we traditional archers set ourselves up as the  elite epitomy of our sport. We individualy repesent all of us with each shot and every action that we take.  Keep this in mind "In every thing that you do so do we all".

Kip

Poor shot selection, and to great a chance for a "Oh Sh!7"  If you are doing this I hope that you are in an area that the nonhunting public can't see if there is a oops...........

Sorry for the double post. It's not a shot I would take. I've had plenty of opportunities, but I'm just not comfortable with this shot.

I agree with those who have said that it's a low percentage shot.
I look at it this way.....if the deer is that close to the base of your tree........why not wait till it steps out another 5-10 yards and then drill it dead center? If it's that close straight under you, then it's not going to smell you until it gets further out away from the tree, and as long as your not doing anything but waiting for it to ease out away from the tree....all you have to do is get ready to take the shot when it reaches your zone.

I've always been more comfortable with a 15-20 yard shot anyway, that's what I practice and that's my dead zone.
So, I'm going to wait till it moves out a bit, and if not then I'll get em' next time cause it aint' worth an all night tracking job....or worse.

I like them close, but not too close to get both lungs.  When they are straight down, I wait for a better shot to develop.

When I shot more lbs I would do it knowing I would probably get out the bottom for blood. Now at 47 lbs ...no.RC

I would try it but I can't jump that high and my hang time sucks.

Taken that shot twice.  Missed the spine once, got one lung. Couldn't admin a finisher due to deer position and lack of cover (she bedded uphill along the steep slope, right at eye level). Got up and walked over and bedded again for a couple of mins (right in a bush- no shot). Got up and walked off, fell over on Jeep trail- 75 yards away- no bloodtrail from last bed to drop-arrow blew through but hole plugged up-two blade head from a compound).

Took it again with stickbow, centered the spine.

It anchors them, but with no lungs hit ya gotta give em a second shot. That might offer more excitement than some would like.

On the "why"...........first one, stand along trail coming to me, sidecutting steep slope. Deer's head was in the way until she got under me.

Other one- late season, deer was injured (knee fused, lost a lot of weight) so I felt the Snuffer would be more kind than the yotes.......and he simply didn't come in from the right direction   ;)

Oh yeah, on deer #1- from shot to expire, with one lung hit (arrow blew through top to bottom) was 18 mins.

As for the "oops" comments, there seem to be enough bad BT and lost deer threads that didn't come from such shots.

Deer move, so even the best shooter can have "bad luck". Less distance would offer less time of flight though (for the sake of no- or lesser argument- we'll say the shot is at an unalarmed deer).

My data set sucks, as it is only two points. My stickbow was trucking 200 FPS, 18% FOC 480gr arrows, from a 55# FF strung BW. It had the Snuffer's point sticking out of the other side of the vert quite a bit, dead center- of course it was so cool looking somebody at the processor's took it   :mad:  

The other was from a 73# compound running an overdraw, 2315's with NAP Spitifre 2 blades- they were new then).

If ya got the horsepower and can visualize the X and nail it at such a distance, I say go for it.

However, such a shot may require another- which could be a shocker for some folks, depending on prior hunting experience.

I'll take that shot with a 55# rig, but not my current set up which is at 48#.

It is by far the hardest easy shot there is. It is easy to say No I wouldn't take the shot until it is presented. It looks like such a chipshot that you can talk yourself into it. I have done it once with success but it was a heck of tough  blood trail. Didn't get complete penetration and felt very fortunate to find him. I have since passed on the shot until a better shot presented itself and so far every deer has presented a BETTER shot after passing the straight down shot!

In my instances, if the deer got past me, there was no shot to be had.

Will say i had a doe flip around on me at 19 yrs. The hit in the ham (flipped while arrow was in flight- no more shooting at spooked deer for me!). Found her (no BT) and snuck in. She moved off a bit, into a thicket, along slope, I spotted her at around 10 yards-she at eyeball level in that mess, bedded butt toward me. I aimed at a vert in her back and super slowly drew, and hit right on that spot.

That anchored her for a finisher that ended things suprisingly fast.


Not a straight down shot, but an aiming for the spine close, that nailed it.

Straight down shooting is awkward, should be practiced if one is going to take it. My compound shot had me all twisted up and I remember keeping tension in my wrist (using release) to keep some sort of followthrough- as my elbow couldn't go any more).

Chipmunks and squirrels can offer in season practice. And a chippy is about the size of the vert   ;)

Keep in mind that the spine is only 2" wide and the actual spinal cord is between 1/2" to 3/4" wide. Just not a high percentage shot. You are better off going for the liver or diaphram and aiming back behind the shoulder blades a little ways! We also have to ask ourselves is every deer worth shooting? I might be in the minority here but I actually enjoy watching them more than eating them! Don't get me wrong b/c if they give me a high percentage shot I am gonna be eating them but if not I am just happy to have had the rush of "almost" getting a shot!

Nope....I've done it before but won't do it again.

I'd say bad to worse seen it done this and other seasons with poor results.

QuoteOriginally posted by Hookeye:
As for the "oops" comments, there seem to be enough bad BT and lost deer threads that didn't come from such shots.

Deer move, so even the best shooter can have "bad luck". Less distance would offer less time of flight though (for the sake of no- or lesser argument- we'll say the shot is at an unalarmed deer).

You're right, everyone can miss or have a deer move which results in a poor hit or lost deer but do we really need to increase the chance of this happening by taking low percentage shots?  

I've done it twice before...once deer was dead in under 10 yards and the other took me 8 hours to find...hit one lung and nothing else.

After those experiences, even though I recovered both deer, I will now wait for a more high percentage shot.

QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
Here's the link below to the story and pics of a buck I killed on Oct. 4 of this year. He was 6 yards from the base of my tree to my right and I was 15 feet up. I hit him right where I was aiming just to the left of his spine. My two blade Magnus went all the way to his heart and was sticking out of his chest right behind his right front leg. He went 40 yards and stopped and then staggered and fell.

I never doubted taking the shot for a minute. Just try and stay away from the shoulder area towards the front part of the deer at that much of an angle.

The arrow penetrated all the way to the fletching but the arrow was very loose in the deer and backed out some after the deer went down. I easily pulled the arrow on through before I moved the deer.

  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=094630  

"6 yards" isn't straight down man. I'd say it's a very common distance that a lot of deer are killed at. To me, there's a big difference between 6 yds. and straight down....

What Biggie said.
Jack

Thanks Curt. I don't feel so bad now after reading all of the posts on this now. It was my first shot on a deer at that angle anyway and, after a couple more short steps, the deer wouldn't have offered any shot at all. After reading all of the negative responses on this, I will most likely pass on such a shot in the future.

i havent been lucky enough to have deer that close to my stand.ive had them close ,but not that close.this is the first year in over 9 yrs hunting in a stand with a bow, i would have to sit and watch the deer around my stand, i just dont feel comfertable taking a shot like that ruddy

I wouldn't consider are comments negative just a concern for the shot selection.

I don't consider the intentional spine shot to be a humane shot, It always requires a second or third shot to finish the animal and that isn't very humane for us as bow hunters.

It's are responsibility to take the highest percentage quickest killing humane shot that we can take on a given animal. Yes, Spine shots do happen because of animals abilities and speed to react to the sound of the shot and it will "Put them down" but why take the chance.

We owe the animals that we hunt more than that!!

Shoot strait everybody and good luck this season   :archer2:  

Tracy

Never

I've killed several deer with that shot in my wheelie bow days, don't care for it now. Don, I have no doubt you can make that shot consistently(I've seen you shoot).  I don't have that much faith in my shooting without sights.  There was an interesting perspective in a blood trailing article in a recent Deer&Deer Hunting mag. Their conclusion was that they'd rather trail a gut shot deer than a single lung hit and felt the recovery percentage would be higher. The reason was that the gut shot deer would bed very quickly and usually die there if left alone long enough.  A deer with one good lung will likely try and leave the county and unfortunately will make it much of the time.

I have taken a few like that before I used a recurve. Awsome shot then, but wouldn't take it now.  I'm not as precise now.

I think too that the visual looking straight down is very deceiving and that may be why I hear so many are lost with this shot.

When looking down on a deer the lung /heart area is more towards the rear end of the dear than most would feel comfortable shooting...the proper placement just doesn't look right. Put it just in front of the last "bulge"(stomach) and your in there.

I would guess, and it's just a presumption, that alot of people aim for what they think is behind the shoulder when it's really between or a little forward of the shoulder.

But like I said I won't take it now ....I think.

never again

QuoteOriginally posted by Coonbait:
DON'T DO IT. It only leads to self regret. I hate looking for deer that I knew better than to take that shot! Only my opinion. I don't think most of us can make that shot consistantly enough to risk wounding an animal know matter how big it is!
GLENN

I think its all about your own confidence in your ability, I don't really think that "most" of us will try to take that shot all the time, but there will come a time when it does present itself and our confidence in our selves will allow us to make a good shot.

I won't do it. Low percentage shot. Personally, I don't believe that aiming for the spine is ethical. IMO, you'd be better off aiming for the liver then the spine or one lung which I personally wouldn't do.

Don't need a deer that badly.

Ive done it twice on does with a compound. Both deer were recovered. One punched the heart, exited low, and left a great trail that was only 60 or so yards long that anyone could follow. The 2nd only got one lung. I jumped her 1/2 hour after the hit, and backed out till morning as it was nearly dark now anyway. She didnt go 100 yards past where i jumped her the 1st time and blood was easy to follow, but I lost a 1/4 to a coyote durring the night. Probably wont do it again

Tried it once--did not work out so well

Here's mine from a couple of weeks ago ....

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n217/dave27615/find2.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n217/dave27615/exit.jpg)

He was maybe 4-7 yards out and walking away, the arrow hit just behind the shoulder blades and exited between the front legs.  He ran for a few seconds and was down (finding him was tougher, I posted the story here.)

This is where a fairly heavy arrow (680gr.) and a 2 blade are your friend.

Seems to me I saw Paul Brunner take this exact same shot on a DVD (maybe Street Smart Bucks).

Anyhow, everyone has their own opinion.

I have shot a number of them like that & never had a problem,  Mike

very low percentage shot as far as I am concerned. no reason to take it.

I've taken only once such shot and it was with a compund around 1988.  I actually wanted the the shot to see what would happen so I waited. It was an average doe. I thought I dead-centered here right between the shoulder blades (Bear Razorhead without bleeder). She didn't drop with a spine shot. She rang less than 50 yards and the tracking was extremely easy because the arrow completely penetrated the heart and out the bottom.

I consider the shot too much risk, especially with the much lighter tackle (46# recurve) I use now. The arrow can miss the spinal cord and if spine is shot you might break the back but you also might deflect. I would expect on such a shot to spine the deer (good)or slide by the cord and into the heart but I wouldn't expect an exit wound with that shot and my tackle. I'd be very concerned about not having a blood trail in such a case.

There are definitely situations where a deer can get under you with no shot coming in or leaving. I'll just wait for another day if that happens.

I know it works sometimes, but I don't take it.

Nope - can not recommend it. Wait for broadside or quartering away.

I have to say I enjoyed reading all the responses to this topic.  I personally would have to say Elknutz hit it on the head for me..."can't jump that high and my hangtime sucks".  I've never hunted out of a tree, so have never been presented with the decision.

Good luck to all....whatever your shot selection, make it with confidence.

Travis

Lots of interesting comments. I guess my post was alittle misleading. When I said straight down, I was thinking, 5 yds and in. The ones Ive shot have never been at 6 oclock under the stand. Hell, I don't think I could bend at the waist far enough to make the 6 pm shot. Thanks for all the response. It is a great time just getting to see them doing their thing. Gonna head back to my special place tomarrow. Hopefully I'll get a good shot at a deer that I'm 99 percent sure , I'm gonna see. Good hunting all. Don

Like others have said, 4-7 yards is NOT straight down.  Big difference.  I once tried it and hit my armguard and arrow deflected.  Never will try that again.  And I mean it was straight down under my stand.

Good comments from all. Glad you cleared up your post Don - I had a feeling you didn't mean straight down.

I like my deer 5 - 15 yards out. I've shot many, many deer at 5 or 6 yards. One thing that comes to my mind is how high your stand is will, for me, determine how effective this shot is. There's a good difference between shooting a deer at 5 yards from a 15 foot stand versus a 25 foot stand.

Also, the steeper the shot angle the more bone you have to go through. I know I've heard internet hunters talk about how they always blow through deer. Well, my arrows blow through a lot of my deer, but shooting a deer at 5 or 6 yards requires a lot more penetration to exit if you're hunting high. Thats why I'm hunting lower this year.

I pass on the straight down shots.... KYArcher

I didn't even bother reading the posts before mine.

I had a whole lot written here. .  and deleted it.  Very few care to listen anyway.  

Shoot em up

ChuckC

QuoteOriginally posted by ChuckC:
I didn't even bother reading the posts before mine.

I had a whole lot written here. .  and deleted it.  Very few care to listen anyway.  

Shoot em up

ChuckC

:confused:        :dunno:  

"Very few care to listen anyway", including yourself, since you "didn't even bother reading the posts"........

QuoteOriginally posted by no:
I have shot a number of them like that & never had a problem,  Mike

me neither. it's my favorite shot in bowhunting. i have shot dozens of deer straight down and never lost one.

fredhill............dozens? Straight down? With a tradbow?

yes dozens. i do alot of suburban hunting with liberal bag limits. as in as many antlerless deer as you can shoot. Montana longbow, Kodiak Magnum, my Pop's old Super Kodiak. some of the areas i hunt have 50-75 deer per square mile.  trad equipment is no handicap under these conditions.

I passed on this shot yesterday, really thought I could do it, was not straight down, a little off to the front side. Waited thinking she'd move around - she didn't, she hated my decoy and would not go accross it, she would not go closer than 15 yards to it. I think it's a bad shot - you may kill one but high risk

Don I have done it dozens of times w/compound but always wait til they are facing away. It just seem to work better that way. If the arrow angles forward they seem to die faster. If it angles back they seem to run farther. I would rather let them get about 7-8 yards from the tree.LCH

Yeah, if 6 yards is straight down I shoot all my treestand deer straight down, lol! I don't shot 17 yarders out of a treetand, I wait for the 4-8 yarders cause its just how I like to do it! I have shot at one deer straight down, his shoulder inches from the tree I was in and slipped the arrow past the spine into his heart.  He only went 30 yards, back peddled, and crashed.  I probably would do it again real soon.

I take this shot ocassionally and have never lost a deer shot straight down - little nerve rattling - but I like it.
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