I want to know if you guys think baiting should be legal and why?
Sorry about the bad wording
I think that baiting deer should not be legal because I think it could possibly make the big boys go nocturnal, it messes up the feeding pattern and also the countless hrs done while scouting year round and puts other hunters at a great disadvantage. And last but not least I think it is very unethical. Just my opinion and will not judge those who do I hunt private property and don't have to deal with that any more
I don't think baiting shpuld be legal because I think it is unethical! :archer:
This should get interesting.
Brian
I think debate is good as long as it doesn't get out of line
I thought you said you didn't like de bait.
Personally I think Polish baiters are unethical too.
Is a baiting pole a new product? Got a link? I'm always looking for the latest contraption.
I'm dunn now.
Baiting gives deer a reasn to only move at night. They are more prone to move during daylight hours if they must Forage for food.
Once they outlawed baiting in WI hunters saw more deer which could have lead to the state overestimating the population of deer.
Hunters were mad about the ban until they found the positive effects of the ban.
Then Hunters were happy until they hunted out their own herd to near extinction due to the increase in deer tags.
Personally, I rather not see baiting. If we must have baiting, it should be illegal to dump food in a pile, it should be spread out. This way deer wont share diseases as much.
"Is a baiting pole a new product? Got a link? I'm always looking for the latest contraption."
John, I was thinking the same thing that's why I looked it up. LOL
Yes it should be allowed. if it is not allowed then quit hunting over fallen acorns cause they are bait(opinion). I say use whatever you want as long as it is legal and just enjoy hunting. This is supposed to be a free country. Why would we ask someone to govern the way we do things anymore? My name is Jarred Tyree and I bait! But maybe I am wrong cause so far I am outnumbered!!! Fun topic poll is 12 to 2 as of so far!
Baiting might be alright in some places, but when it gets to level it has gotten to here in Wisconsin it creates more problems than it solves. In many areas it has turned into a baiting war among neighbors. That is on private property. Now add pulic property to that the posseive behavior goes where it shouldn't. Legal means are ignored and law enforcement can't keep up. Wisconsin would be better off without any of it.
I injoy scouting i like to read the woods and lern what the deer are doing from the sighn.
I think people who bait are missing out on a big part of hunting.
I live in Texas where it is allowed. Do I have a problem with it? No!
I see no difference in what we do in Tx vs. hunters in the areas hunting over cut ag fields. Still hunting over a baited area, regardless of how you look at it.
That's good stuff
hah :)
Now crossbows,lets not open that can hah!
Here are some questions I have.
Is a white oak tree dropping a ton of acorns bait?
What about hunting the edge of a corn or soybean field?
How about hunting over an apple or persimmon tree?
I have hunted places where baiting is legal and places where it is illegal, and have killed deer and other critters under both circumstances. I am certain that all of this "my way is better than yours" attitude is detrimental to our passion of hunting. If it is legal and it suits you I have no problem with how or with what you kill them; like I said as long as it is legal. I don't have to agree with you to be friends with you; that is my take on a lot of the ethics hogwash. I feel we need to band together as hunters regardless of the way we hunt or even with what weapon we use to hunt. The liberals are trying to end hunting by pricing us avg-Joes out of the game. All I am saying is let's stick together and support one another even if their way is not our way.
I am for any kind of hunting under any circumstances as long as it is legal, even though that are some things I would not do myself.
yes hunting over bait gives us texas boys way too unfair of an advantage. That must be why we are 3 weeks into season and no one on our lease has taken a deer yet! We are in high deer density county. :)
Personally, I can't afford to bait, and don't think I would enjoy it as much as trying to hunt more natural food sources and travel routes.
Also, I was curious of everybody's opinions on the definition of bait. Should a high nutrient food plot be considered bait? How about a mineral lick? What about an apple tree planted for hunting?
QuoteOriginally posted by Gen273:
Here are some questions I have.
Is a white oak tree dropping a ton of acorns bait?
What about hunting the edge of a corn or soybean field?
How about hunting over an apple or persimmon tree?
I have hunted places where baiting is legal and places where it is illegal, and have killed deer and other critters under both circumstances. I am certain that all of this "my way is better than yours" attitude is detrimental to our passion of hunting. If it is legal and it suits you I have no problem with how or with what you kill them; like I said as long as it is legal. I don't have to agree with you to be friends with you; that is my take on a lot of the ethics hogwash. I feel we need to band together as hunters regardless of the way we hunt or even with what weapon we use to hunt. The liberals are trying to end hunting by pricing us avg-Joes out of the game. All I am saying is let's stick together and support one another even if their way is not our way.
I am for any kind of hunting under any circumstances as long as it is legal, even though that are some things I would not do myself.
You are absolutely correct we need to stick together as hunters. I'm not looking to say my way is better than yours or start trouble I just want to know peoples thoughts behind their reasoning.
And by the way the answer to you question is no acorns are a natural food source that deer have to forage for. Oaks are a dime a dozen in my neck of the woods.
Baiting for what? Deer, bears, hogs, birds?
I have seen that after feeders with corn for deer were put on the land I hunt a lot of animals have taken advantage of, javelinas, coyotes, doves, quail, racoons, and I like to see a lot of animals while hunting.
now I dont like to "guard" the feeder and prefer to hunt on their travel routes.
Don't see why it should not be legal
QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
Baiting for what? Deer, bears, hogs, birds?
Deer
i love to bait deer for my 2 boys to hunt. I gives them an opportunity to see deer everytime they go out and usually see alot of deer. It keeps them interisted.
I like hunting the lay of the land myself, I seem to kill more bucks that way, but I would be disappointed if I could not bait deer for my boys to hunt.
God Bless,
Nathan
Baiting deer is not a slam dunk, as many seem to think or imply. If you screw up the first time you may not see a second time.
Baiting in my state of NH is legal and we do it on the land we own. We do it for several reasons. Not too many years ago it was logged and there are currently no mast or apple trees or even grapes growing on it. We are trying to change that. There is a fellow on the adjacent property to our NW that bait's like crazy even though he is set up in a stand of oaks. To our SE we have a fellow who has a food plot as well as feeders set out. So, if we are to see deer, and even have a hope of shooting one, we feed them. We start in the Spring with Trophy Rocks (they just finished the third one on my wife's stand). Then towards the middle of the summer we add a bit of corn and do so throughout the season and supplement with apples when we can get them. The deer typically come in to the bait areas much more cautiously than they do to other more natural food sources and they seem to be adept at picking out tree stands as there are any number of t hem in the area from which they are shot at from.
Once you get busted at a bait site, those particular deer become very skittish and either go nocturnal, early morning or take anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour once you see them coming before they commit to the site. Even then, as many of you know, getting the deer you want to pose in the perfect position for a shot may never happen even when they do come in. My wife and i have a meeting spot. If one of us is late getting there we will work our way over to the other's stand because being late or not being at the meeting spot means one of us is "trapped" in our stand by deer we can't shoot for one reason or the other. That way, the person on the ground gets the attention and the deer are none the wiser for the person being in a tree stand. Baiting is not for everyone nor is it my preference. But for us to have a place to ourselves to hunt without pressure from others, and the fact that we have no reasonable natural food supplies to set up on or trails to and from, we find baiting to be a reasonable thing to do.
Never thought about it since up here it isn't leagal to bait, you are not even alowed to hunt bear on your own kill site, moose gut pile for example!!
Tought question, I guess if it is leagal go for it, as long as you feel good about it.
My dad put mineral licks on his hunting ground for moose and he doesn't get more mooses than me!!
Cheers
Bill Carlsen explained my situation perfectly. We have few deer and baiting is legal. Adjoining land owners bait, so if I don't I won't see much and will likely have another year of a freezer with a loud echo. The only thing I can do other than bait myself is attempt to intercept them on their way to the other guy's bait....which amounts to the same thing.
I prefer to hunt trails leading to my own bait site if possible.
Legal for Deer and Elk here in WA. Illegal for Bear and Birds. I have never "baited" deer or elk, but I love people who do. It tells me where not to hunt ( on the bait ) and where to hunt, around the baits. I hunt travel trails to and from the baiting area early and late. I use others baits along with terrain, and everything else I know to get on animals without messing up others hunts or baiting area.
I used to bait, but that was too much work, then I went to just shooting deer targets, still too much work, then I went to shooting little pictures of deer with a gun. so much to do reload gun, hang pictures etc. etc. Then I found this computer game, but it is too hard. It is a nice day for hunting, so I think I will open the shades and watch TV.
Just kidding, I think it takes away from the challenge of hunting, too much and can create unnatural patterns for the baited animal. It goes against my leave no trace outdoors ethic.
I prefer to learn the animals habits and read sign, then set up on them. Spot and stalk is my favorite way of hunting.
Baiting is illegal in Wyoming, and I'm glad. :)
LOL Pavan, too funny! I agreewith your line of thinking
"another world" "the young and restless" "the edge of night" don't want to miss my stories, but oh oh what if I miss opra and ellen and dr. Phlipped in the head, must take a nap and think about it. No wait, I know where the turkeys are roosting, gotta go, take care guys.
I do not mind baiting at all. What gigs me is when people who tote "I oppose baiting deer because I do not approve of it" or "it is beneath my ethics" ideas - pooching their chests out telling me this are the same folks who will go sit over a 55 gallon drum for a bear or a feeder for hogs and have no issue shooting that bear or hog over the feeder/drum? baiting is baiting - for a proper poll, or ethics for that matter, you cannot distinguish game animal. Your poll do as you wish. But what I mean is - if you are against baiting a deer please do not rationalize the bear or hog shot over bait.
I think if you make it illegal, or personally ban yourself from the practice then do it for all game animals you will hunt as they deserve the same effort put forth in a hunt to be killed or yourself sent home empty handed.
-------
On the next note this is the first yr I have personally put forth an effort to bait - I have an area where it is legal. Deer do not move to it in daylight hours just as they do not move once the dogs start pushing them.
I am finding that I like to hunt to many different areas and I like to move too much! So baiting really is not my personal style though I have nothing against its proper use.
My .02
Jason
QuoteOriginally posted by J-dog:
I do not mind baiting at all. What gigs me is when people who tote "I oppose baiting deer because I do not approve of it" or "it is beneath my ethics" ideas - pooching their chests out telling me this are the same folks who will go sit over a 55 gallon drum for a bear or a feeder for hogs and have no issue shooting that bear or hog over the feeder/drum? baiting is baiting - for a proper poll, or ethics for that matter, you cannot distinguish game animal. Your poll do as you wish. But what I mean is - if you are against baiting a deer please do not rationalize the bear or hog shot over bait.
I think if you make it illegal, or personally ban yourself from the practice then do it for all game animals you will hunt as they deserve the same effort put forth in a hunt to be killed or yourself sent home empty handed.
-------
On the next note this is the first yr I have personally put forth an effort to bait - I have an area where it is legal. Deer do not move to it in daylight hours just as they do not move once the dogs start pushing them.
I am finding that I like to hunt to many different areas and I like to move too much! So baiting really is not my personal style though I have nothing against its proper use.
My .02
Jason
Sorry I was not thinking bear and hog I live in south jersey no bear or hogs here. Just 500 lb piles of corn on state land.
I also live in SJ and to be honest if you hunt any public land in SJ your chances of harvesting a deer are very low due to the number of people hunting public land and lack of public land.I plant small food plots on public land (20ftX20ft) and have used corn before. I feel that just because you use bait doesn't mean it changes the feeding pattern( they eat that corn after dark most times) at all and it barely raises the success rate. bait is food that was placed there or planted,does corn,soy bean,ect. grow wild in any part of the country? Heck doe pee or any product placed in an area to attract an animal is the same as baiting.JMHO :goldtooth:
Oddly worded poll question but I figured it out.
I don't think baiting should be legal. But, I don't make a big deal out it and I certainly don't bash hunters who do it where legal.
You asked our opinion. The "why" for me is very simple. The "hunt" is very important to me and involves much more than stealth and shooting.
Baiters love to throw up the oak trees, persimmons, apples, and even crop fields. Why leave out wild forbs, woody browse, and fescue fields -- the entire list of things deer eat? I guess if one put out 40-50 piles of bait to simulate the widespread availability of natural and planted deer foods the baiter could return more of the hunt to the adventure. Then the baiter would have to use other information (woodsmanship) to determine which pile to sit over and when.
Unethical...yes guys, just like the camo, range finders, scent blokers, blinds etc. If you hunt traditional you should be a traditionlist..
Hunt on a level playing field with the animal you are hunting. Get out of the stands and stalk..Thats real hunting.
QuoteOriginally posted by Wolfie2nd:
[]Sorry I was not thinking bear and hog I live in south jersey no bear or hogs here. Just 500 lb piles of corn on state land. [/QB]
Sitting over someone Else's bait :rolleyes: now there's a thought :readit:
Does public land constitute hunting where you like where legal? I guess that would be equivalent to hunting from the same tree some guy left his tree stand in on public ground. Not that I would but it's kinda funny to think about! :laughing:
baiting should be illegal, hunting over acorns,scents, artificial scrapes, hunting near orchards, foodplots, farmers fields should also be illegal. The use of treestands, ladders and ground blinds should also be banned. No camo clothing of any type should also be banned, not because it works, but I believe it to be unethical.
:deadhorse:
:banghead:
I'm thinking that the Liberals, many of whom get to voice their opinions in the voting box, may find "baiting" as one more reason not to support us. I know here in WA when our "game department" has lost some "Management" to the "Popular Vote" Bear baiting was gone in a heart beat. :readit:
I try very hard to set a good example for others, hunters and non-hunters alike...I don't want the non-hunters to get the idea that I'm too lazy to get off of my A$$ and go do it in a bit harder manner... I took up and enjoy "traditional archery hunting" for the added demand it places on me to be sucessful.... and Success is not always measured by a dead animal on the ground...
If my being able to continue to hunt is subject to some "Liberals" vote??? I, in no way want to give them any ammo to fight me with...
So, no baiting for me... that's my $02 for what it's worth.
I must admit however, that we in the West are in most cases very lucky in the fact that thousands of acres are open to the public both thru State, BLM and National Forrest land, along with the millions of Private logging acres open to the public.... If I lived back East, I may in deed be on the other side of the fence on this issue.
Gene :wavey: :coffee:
BTW this debate will never end...that is, until we loose it completely.
Baiting is what it is.
Acorns, alfalfa fields, corn fields, soybeans, apple trees, ect.
How someone can plant a food plot, and call it anything but baiting is beyone me.
Try baiting in a three yr old Michigan swamp donkey on public land, and then tell me you STILL think it is unethical.
Some times I wonder how many people on this site even hunt.
I don't believe it is unethical but it is unnatural. To each his own but I would not do it. Shawn
Also a food plot or acorns under an oak is totally different than trucking in loads of turnips or corn and placing them there several times a year or season. That is why the law does not considering them baiting because look at the definition of what baiting is. Shawn
It is not a fair chase practice, is unethical and is a major causative factor for diseases such as Chronic Wasting Disease in cervids, like deer.
I trad hunt because it is more important to me how I kill a deer, than how many deer I kill.
Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing those who do. My beliefs are personal and for myself only. If it is a legal practice in your state, it is your choice. I have never killed a bear or a hog but if I did attempt to do so, I wouldn't want to do it over bait.
QuoteOriginally posted by droptine82:
Yes it should be allowed. if it is not allowed then quit hunting over fallen acorns cause they are bait(opinion). I say use whatever you want as long as it is legal and just enjoy hunting. This is supposed to be a free country. Why would we ask someone to govern the way we do things anymore? My name is Jarred Tyree and I bait! But maybe I am wrong cause so far I am outnumbered!!! Fun topic poll is 12 to 2 as of so far!
I have killed deer over bait before and quite a few without bait. I have not killed a deer with my bow yet. And so far when I have bow hunted for them it wasn't over bait. I usually don't bait but sometimes I do. Just depends...it is leagal in the lowcountry of our state so I have no problem with it.
:deadhorse:
Who cares. If you want to know the answer to this do what so many others on this site need to do, use the freakin' search engine! It's been brought up a billion times and all it ever does is cause trouble because for some reason everyone needs to worry about how everyone else is hunting or what they're using. You don't want to do it, then don't, but leave the people who do alone. They're not telling you that you have to so don't tell them they can't.
I should add you can only bait on private land in the lowcountry of South Carolina....No baiting on public land at all.....unless you count all the planted fields as bait..... LOL which is the same to me.
wow
In case someone misunderstood my post i was being sarcastic
Like everything else we as humans ruin I think it isn't truly hunting. Someone wrote it isn't as easy as one would think but having done it, it surely increases your odds. The family who graciously invites me to hunt their property baits my stand for me every time. I havent the heart to ask them to stop because I am a guest. There have been soooo many times I have sat and watched deer walk up and eat the corn left by my stand and I can't shoot them. I get more of a thrill studying their movements and habits while eating. By the way, there is a corn field on the other side of the woods from me and acorns are plentiful but htey still seem to migrate to the corn left piled on the ground.
I watch those shows on tv where the bear is walking up to a barrel of food and looking straight up at the bowhunter wondering ... seems a bit unfair. Sorry I am truly not for baiting but it doesnt bother me cause I dont have to shoot them .
We bait, but we also hunt food plots, fields edges, trails, and funnels. Honestly, the hardest hunting is over bait...I might see more game, but they are never "at ease."
Anyhow..it's all relative...just depends on where you are in the country and how you like to hunt. Personally, I'd rather see a guy kill a deer with a bow over bait, than with a gun spot and stalk style. We each have our biases and preconceived notions. Oh well, just one more reason I like to "expand my mind" once in a while.
This thread reminds me of a post last year when I asked about hunting Africa. I caught hell since I'd be hunting water holes...which is "bait" if you ask me. I was ok with this form of bait and I had a lot of success. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
So what's the deal when grain is on the ground. I was told of a case where a farm worker had a near roll over in the dark backing up a wagon full of soybeans, he spilled part of his load. The next day, two bucks, one huge one that no one had seen before, were feeding on the spilled bushels; later there were geese on it.
Saying that a pile of corn (bait) is the same as a cornfeild, is like saying venison backstraps is the same as a Big Mac. SHEESH.
I can't believe anyone would want any hunting method banned..........sad
I just think when you live in a state as small as NJ with little woods for all the hunters we have and people are baiting it will put the others at a disadvantage that don't bait and chose to scout.
I also think that you should not be able to brag about a big ole nasty buck that you killed while he had his head in a feed
bag. Just my opinion once again. Not tryin to push my thoughts and ways on anyone by no means.
:knothead: :banghead:
:deadhorse:
QuoteOriginally posted by onewhohasfun:
Saying that a pile of corn (bait) is the same as a cornfeild, is like saying venison backstraps is the same as a Big Mac. SHEESH.
Could not have said it better myself.
I could dump corn in my back yard and kill them from the deck. Do I? No. I scout and hunt the woods and natural funnels. I am a Hunter, not a Killer.
QuoteOriginally posted by onewhohasfun:
Saying that a pile of corn (bait) is the same as a cornfeild, is like saying venison backstraps is the same as a Big Mac. SHEESH.
Just a thought does the cornfield give you an advantage? and does a pile of corn give you that same advantage? I think yes. And when they come out with the McBackstrap value meal I will order it for sure. :goldtooth:
The only difference is one is still on the stalk.They were both added by man.I'm waiting on the deerfinder (like a fishfinder) just drop it from your stand and wait for the blip and you have'em. :laughing: :laughing:
QuoteOriginally posted by lpcjon2:
quote:
Originally posted by onewhohasfun:
Saying that a pile of corn (bait) is the same as a cornfeild, is like saying venison backstraps is the same as a Big Mac. SHEESH.
Just a thought does the cornfield give you an advantage? and does a pile of corn give you that same advantage? I think yes. And when they come out with the McBackstrap value meal I will order it for sure. :bigsmyl:
QuoteOriginally posted by Wolfie2nd:
I just think when you live in a state as small as NJ with little woods for all the hunters we have and people are baiting it will put the others at a disadvantage that don't bait and chose to scout.
:knothead: :banghead:
:deadhorse:
All depends on how you look at it I guess. "Scouting" involves finding the food sources, bedding areas, and the travel routes between them. Unless the deer are bedding ON the corn piles, I'd say that puts YOU at an advantage. If someone decides to create a food source, why don't you hunt smart and intercept the deer before they get there? No different than intercepting them before they get to a corn field, and oak grove, or a bean field.
A pile of corn and a 100 acre cornfield are the same only to someone who has never seen either and can't picture it in their mind. They might also be the same to someone who simply wants to be contrary.
I go back to my litmus test (same one I use on high fences). Kill over bait. Set up the picture. Is the bait pile in the picture or not? Your answer reveals your most honest opinion of a deer killed over bait. By the way, this is very concrete for me regarding deer but I admit to being torn about bears. Also, because I consider exotic hogs a blight on the natural landscape I'd support any (legal) method of getting them dead.
Last year when hunting with my best friend in Indiana I hunted stands bordering a picked cornfield that was about 160 acres. I saw three of the largest bucks I've ever seen during a few of those days - the closest @ 38 yards. I was hunting with a compound. This year I won't hunt the edges of this corn field because the trails are so profuse one can't predict where the deer will enter and then move away from predator(Me)- hiding cover. So, becaue I'm using a recurve and have knocked 10 yards off my effective range I will hunt the woods for closer-funneled-shots.
There seems to be nothing new under the sun when it comes to defending, offending or letting live opinions on baiting. The only thing I see that comes from these threads is that they bring out the worst behavior among many of us. None of us like to be attacked for our hunting choices and I understand that. Even though many of these posts don't directly aim to cricize or judge another hunter's methods, that's how these questions usually come across and end up. I definitely think it is improper to get all puffed up and "demand" others make the same choices (to bait or not, recurve/longbow, far/close, heavy/light, camo/goodwill, etc.) that you make.
It would be recreation for me to read a post that pits recurve shooters vs. longbow shooters. But, I'm sure not going to start one just for fun because my mind is made up on that personal decision and I don't need any back-up for the choice.
I'm a retired wildlife biologist (KY Wildlife Director) but I started as a bowhunter and, God-willing, I'll end as one. I know the hazards to the resource (many are unproven by the way)and that matters to me. Some of these diseases that can be transmitted nose to nose, etc. are nearly impossible to get rid of once in the population. Baiting doesn't cause any of these diseases -- but the pile technique of attracting many animals to the same few square feet may sure help them spread if an infected animal is around. We don't want these diseases. If you don't live in WI or MI or haven't read about the impacts (CWD in WI and TB in MI), you should. The most common reaction of a wildlife agency to do battle with these diseases is to hammer the deer herd -- to as close to zero as possible and start over.
For me, the only scenario I could see myself using bait would be if I hunted small tracts surrounded by small tracts and the neighbors were baiting. In such a case, no matter the quality of your small acreage one might have to join the fray in order to share the fun. I know some of you deal with exactly this situation and I feel for you. I'm not saying I would and I'll do everything I can to keep my options (and mind) more open.
When I watch outdoor tv the only thing that will cause me to turn the channel quicker than evidence of tightly scattered bait is a high fence. The film directors are masters at hiding the fences in these shows but they don't mind pouring a bag of C'mere Deer on the ground for all to see -- especially as the sponsor shells out the motivativion. I even saw in a commercial the other day (because I'd never watch their show)a self-promoting celebrity eating the stuff.
Personally I do not believe there is anything wrong with baiting. Can't do it here in NY though.
Reasons: For one there is an aweful lot of natural food here including apple, oaks, beech, crops, etc. Deer forage, so what difference does it actually make? These foods sources are provided all the time so the nocturnal agruement does not apply as I see it. I would be against bringing in literal tons of bait and leaving it in a pile. But for the the few pounds a feeder provides a day, I don't see the arguement. Personally I hunt apple trees which are a source of food (leaves included) to increase my chances, so I don't see the problem hunting over some other type of food.
JMHO.
I respect the right of anyone who chooses to bait as long as it's legal in their state. I grew up in a state where it was taboo, and when I moved to where it was legal, it just felt wrong to me. To each his own, but it's not for me.
Why do I care what someone else does on their land? I make my own choices. If we don't stop these silly and petty disagreements we will wind up like Europe.
In my parents home country you are not allowed to hunt your own land if it is not designated as a hunting area by the government. Landowners there have no rights. In fact you can't even own a cow for milk. You either have to be a farmer and have a minimum number of animals or you can have nothing.
I prefer having choice and I certainly feel like I should be allowed to do what is deemed legal on my own property.
We keep making up rules for others to follow we will soon all be faced with rules no one wants.
Sorry to rant, but we have to protect our liberties even if we don't like them all. Just make your own choice and let others make their own.
Many things one does in life, like hunting are "personal"-we do it for ourselves and only that.
As long as it is legal, PLEASE DON'T TELL OTHERS WHAT THEY SHOULD DO BASED UPON YOUR OPINIONS OF WHAT IS ETHICAL OR NOT! Frankly, it is none of your business.
Likewise, I could care less how you want to do "personal" things.
Bowwild, good points. You never see a corn pile in the hero shot. A bait pile concentrates the area a deer uses much more than a field or a stand of oaks. I will support those rights to bait it, if its legal, I just hope it will not become legal in my state.
I try to live by this rule: If I were embarrassed to see it on the front page of the paper, or a billboard in town, then i don't do it.
I can see it now... local man kills fawn over bait pile.. way to go!!
It's not for me.
I will hunt over corn, beans, acorns etc., but I don't bait. Why? Because I don't have to pay for corn, beans or acorns.
To me, that's the difference.
That said, I did hunt deer in San Angelo once and the guy who had the lease did have a feeder. And I setup between the bedding area and the feeder. Does that make me a hypocrite? I don't think so. I didn't put out the feeder and I didn't hunt over it. But I did use it to my advantage. BTW - I didn't get a deer on that trip but I did get two turkeys.
I was not aware of the scientific issues with baiting.
Its illegal here in pa, and im glad. I dont hold anything against anyone who wants to bait where it legal its just not for me.Theres room for all of us out there. compounds rifles etc. (even crossbows i just wish they werent legal archery gear for everyone like they are now in Pa). I think the issue should be watched and studied where disease has been detected. I think Bowwild's Lithmus test is really, really acurate too for judging how one feels about bait.
The thing that really truly annoys me is when baiters get defensive and say things like "you're hunting a cornfeild? you too are hunting over bait!! You hunting an orchard? your hunting bait! Oak ridge? bait!!" COME ON!! APPLES AND ORANGES!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by Wolfie2nd:
I want to know if you guys think baiting should be legal and why?
Sorry about the bad wording
QuoteOriginally posted by RAU:
COME ON!! APPLES AND ORANGES!!!
Those are bait too, along with pears, grapes, peaches, and...
;)
I live in the south, and practically 100% of the private land within driving distance of me is covered up with feeders and each feeder has a trail camera aimed at it, and everyone of these trail cameras is busy snapping pictures of deer every night. That is a lot of $$ invested in what?
I personally would rather quit hunting than hunt over bait. Having done it without bait all my life, I just have no desire to. I have been invited to S. Texas several times, and am not interested.
I wish it were illegal here, as we have tons of hunters who know no other way. They spill over onto public land where baiting is illegal, and bring liquid attractants, salt blocks, cans of aerosol stuff, and even corn. If you had the money that is blown on attracting deer in the south, you could buy an island. I firmly believe that if baiting were outlawed here, practically everyone would see more deer per day's hunt.
However, I am pretty sure that I am the only deer hunter in Mississippi or Texas who feels the way I do, so I'm used to being the minority.
If you are sitting over a bait poured on the ground in front of your stand....it can in no way be equated as to trying to figure out how that big buck is entering and leaving that "darn big corn or bean field"... I have also never seen a bunch of tree's that dropped all of their mast in one hat sized pile in front of a tree stand... How can anyone not consider this "Apples and Oranges"...
IMO, if the circumstance permit, a good spot and stalk or fall "buck rub line" of trees during the rut [ a natural thing like apples naturally falling from trees], would be the way I would attempt my hunt.. sitting over a bait I would consider more "Killing than Hunting".
Again, I'm glad I live in the West and don't have to make the choice....
Gene :wavey: :coffee:
I just voted and was surprised how close the race was!
Interesting thread. If it is legal for hogs why not deer? Now baiting elk seems just wierd though.
I dont hunt deer over bait, never have never will.... but if someone wants to bait so be it...dosent bother me.
Just for the fun of it there is approx.200 kernels of corn to an ear,5 ears to a stalk. So if we dropped 1000 kernels of corn in a small pile every 18" in a row to cover a acre. Would that be the equivalent of mass product produced by an acre of standing corn? So would that be baiting if it equals the same amount spread over the same area as whats there? :jumper: :D
In the area I hunt...all the deer are in the neighborhoods since people put corn out for the deer. I am thinking about counter measures....... :readit: :saywhat:
lpcjon2 do you bait deer? I see no problem with you baiting deer if its legal in jersey I'm just curious. You hunt however you want to. As been said before hunting is a personal thing and its none of my buisness how you go about it. If baiting was legal in pa I wouldnt take part in it because to me (TO ME) its not interacting with the woods or the way things are working before i get there. Hunting agricullture, or oak ridges etc still requires reading sign and some woodsmanship. By dumping bait and sitting it you are MANIPULATING deer behavior. You control it. You are making it happen where you want it to. You could always find a side on a bait pile to sit no matter what the wind is doing.
I said before if its legal and you like it bait away! You could have a sugar beet pile i could see from space on google map and I dont care! Its none of my buisness!! I just get annoyed when people say that hunting a pre existing food or other attractant is baiting!! Ive said all im going to on this topic. I get myself drawn into it every time it comes up and Im not going to again, I just wanted to say a few things before this thread gets yanked (and it will). I'm done now. Goodnight.
QuoteOriginally posted by RAU:
lpcjon2 do you bait deer? I see no problem with you baiting deer if its legal in jersey I'm just curious. You hunt however you want to. As been said before hunting is a personal thing and its none of my buisness how you go about it. If baiting was legal in pa I wouldnt take part in it because to me (TO ME) its not interacting with the woods or the way things are working before i get there. Hunting agricullture, or oak ridges etc still requires reading sign and some woodsmanship. By dumping bait and sitting it you are MANIPULATING deer behavior. You control it. You are making it happen where you want it to. You could always find a side on a bait pile to sit no matter what the wind is doing.
I said before if its legal and you like it bait away! You could have a sugar beet pile i could see from space on google map and I dont care! Its none of my buisness!! I just get annoyed when people say that hunting a pre existing food or other attractant is baiting!! Ive said all im going to on this topic. I get myself drawn into it every time it comes up and Im not going to again, I just wanted to say a few things before this thread gets yanked (and it will). I'm done now. Goodnight.
Well spoken brother could not have said it better myself!
Not legal here, but if it was..I would sho be truckin the corn in. I would have no problem killin deer over corn or any of the other baits mentioned.
I hope nobody gets a nose bleed from riding on those high horses.
I have baited and I have baited in the off season to keep deer in an area.I do plant food plots and I don't have a problem hunting near a bait pile,and in my opinion(which Is what I have stated ) anything you use can be looked at as bait.To bait is to lure.
Technically, deer are "attracted" to something everywhere they go. Using some of your arguments, you may be able to prove that hunting in a particularly thick or isolated bedding area is "baiting" because the deer are attracted to it. That is semantics.
On the lands where I hunt, whether I show up there or not, the deer are going to do the same thing. I'm not going to go out there and work all summer to change their habits a little so that they will suit how I want to hunt. Personally I want to adjust my hunting strategy to the deer's existing habits because THAT is the part of hunting I enjoy. I could make a phone call and for the price of my license I could go to S. Texas next month if I want, and have someone show me where to sit, and have a feeder out in front of me to bring deer in so I can shoot them, but I have honestly never been able to figure out what would be fun about it. If that were the only way to hunt, I would be a fisherman.
Baiting should be illegal.
Baiting defined as the placing of food stuff in a pile with the purpose to draw deer.
Anything that grows or is part of nature, ie; foodplots, acorns, apples from apple trees, etc are not bait. That's just proper hunting if you find that stuff in the woods on a
Scouting trip.
When I have used corn I still go out and scout and look for sign of deer(rubs,trails,bedding area's,funnels,and cover)just like you do before you set a blind or stand. If you see a corn field off the road and go in the woods around it and find the trail they use and hunt that trail. That is no different than finding a trail in the woods that is a main travel corridor and putting corn near it and hunting that trail.does it matter if a farmer placed it there or you did? it still serves the same purpose.
And IMHO if a deer in your area didn't pee in that scrape and you added pee from a bottle(which the pee probably came from a penned up deer,can't imagine trying to milk the bladder of a wild deer)Then it aint natural and it's baiting.
And I spend a lot of time in the woods scouting and planning(land is limited around me as are the deer).I hope all that say they don't use anything to attract,lure deer,or alter the terrain to funnel them in(adding cut brush ect. to change the way they travel past your stand).Are truly hunting by the standards they type. Unless you wear buckskins and hunt like the indians did,all the tools we have give us an advantage when we hunt. :campfire:
anyone for the razor sharp vs sharp debate...LOL :laughing:
Yeah sounds like fun. Just remember I don't like da bait. :banghead: lol.
I'm a file Sharp kinda guy.
I don't know why I'm adding fuel to the fire, but...
I believe the no-bait state of PA recently allowed baiting in certain regions where they haven't been able to acheive the herd-reduction goals they wanted (current residents correct me if I'm wrong). Since most of us are proud of our role as a wildlife management tool, would this reason (assuming you agree with the herd reduction goal) change your opinion of hunting over bait?
While I previously stated I'm not comfortable hunting over bait, if I found myself with the opportunity to help out a farmer with crop damage permits, I think I would take that opportunity and use the extra advantage. But then, if I were already doing that ("killing" instead of "hunting"), I'd probably just go ahead and use a gun to be more efficient.
QuoteOriginally posted by trapperzeke:
I don't know why I'm adding fuel to the fire, but...
I believe the no-bait state of PA recently allowed baiting in certain regions where they haven't been able to acheive the herd-reduction goals they wanted (current residents correct me if I'm wrong). Since most of us are proud of our role as a wildlife management tool, would this reason (assuming you agree with the herd reduction goal) change your opinion of hunting over bait?
While I previously stated I'm not comfortable hunting over bait, if I found myself with the opportunity to help out a farmer with crop damage permits, I think I would take that opportunity and use the extra advantage. But then, if I were already doing that ("killing" instead of "hunting"), I'd probably just go ahead and use a gun to be more efficient.
Not to brag or anything but I have done my fair share of culling the herd by me. I've got 5 already and am waiting for the big nasty buck with the pot belly and a big birds nest on his head that I've been on. He just won't present me a good shot. And all this was done with no bait lures just good scouting and woodsman skills. I'm even beating my friend that baits and shoots wheels.
QuoteOriginally posted by gvdocholiday:
Baiting should be illegal.
Baiting defined as the placing of food stuff in a pile with the purpose to draw deer.
Anything that grows or is part of nature, ie; foodplots, acorns, apples from apple trees, etc are not bait. That's just proper hunting if you find that stuff in the woods on a
Scouting trip.
I highly doubt that you are just going to conveniently "find" a food plot on a scouting trip. If there's a foodplot, it was put there by a hunter. Foodplots are bait just the same as corn piles.
Well, since Europeans and South American brought seeds to the USA many years ago to plant for food ( Corn, soy beans, apples, sugar beets , etc: ) it is all bait. The only true native plant food for deer is honeysuckle and brows, grasses and brush. Everything that Man plants come from somewhere else.
Hell the Caveman used bait to get some game, Like the Giant Small face Bear. The American Indians used bait to get their game animals ( scents, calls, decoys,etc: )
I have 1 question, How in the hell can anyone say using bait is unethical?
Well first of all its not fair chase, next it spreads disease
And I feel its just straight up lazy and not wanting to do any of their homework.
Just my opinion once again.
If you want to kill deer that have their head buried in a feed bag have at it.
QuoteOriginally posted by mysticguido:
Well, since Europeans and South American brought seeds to the USA many years ago to plant for food ( Corn, soy beans, apples, sugar beets , etc: ) it is all bait. The only true native plant food for deer is honeysuckle and brows, grasses and brush. Everything that Man plants come from somewhere else.
Hell the Caveman used bait to get some game, Like the Giant Small face Bear. The American Indians used bait to get their game animals ( scents, calls, decoys,etc: )
I have 1 question, How in the hell can anyone say using bait is unethical?
Hey mystic,
I took my girlfriend to dinner every Friday night when we dated,Now she's my wife. To me that was baiting and ethical cause she's a Hottie!! :laughing: :laughing:
That's funee
QuoteOriginally posted by Wolfie2nd:
Well first of all its not fair chase, next it spreads disease
And I feel its just straight up lazy and not wanting to do any of their homework.
Just my opinion once again.
If you want to kill deer that have their head buried in a feed bag have at it.
Just because some club ( P&Y or B&C ) said it's not fair chase that makes it Not fair.. Lets talk about fair then... Next time You go hunting, Do it fair.. just Your hands, No weapons of any kind that is man Made.. Bows/Arrows, Hand guns, rifles, shotguns, xbows, spears, M1A1 tanks, hand grenades, Etc: Once You can kill a deer with Your bare hands then talk about fair..
I started hunting with a rifle (centerfire) I moved over to a smoke pole to make it more fair, Then After Heart surgery I started hunting with wheely bow, Then went to trad bow to make it more fair. If I could run down a deer and brake it's neck I would.. That is truly fair chase.
QuoteI have 1 question, How in the hell can anyone say using bait is unethical?
I don't think that is the issue. You sig says that hunting is your heart and soul. Well it is mine too, only I happen to live in an area of the country where it is impossible to hunt on private lands, as do you. Once baiting is the norm, hunting can no longer be what it was, because it is no longer possible to hunt the way one did before baiting.
I grew up hunting on public land where there is no baiting, and I love that. But, it cannot be done on private land in Louisiana. Once you go to private land, you are restricted to certain stands that sit there overlooking plots or feeders, and what I used to call hunting is reduced to sitting and waiting for a nibble. Like fishing with a bobber - it's a waiting game.
As a person that loves to hunt, but lives in a state where it has been rendered obsolete on private land by technology and deer farming, not only my state, but the states on either side of me as well, I feel a little like the indian in the old commercial who has a tear in his eye when he looks at how things have been trashed up.
Once the majority of people hunt with bait as they do here, they are the first ones to stand up for outlawing any and all other forms of hunting that might interfere with their method. Since sitting in the same couple of stands all year gazing at a feeder became the norm around here, all forms of hunting with dogs are on the way out. Small game hunting - pushed aside. Anything that disturbs the feeder gazers is on the way out. This even spills over onto the public lands, because so many people learn to gaze at feeders first, when they go onto public land they feel the same things are needed - they must have attractants, and they must not be disturbed by other (lesser) users of public land.
So I am not against baiting because it's unethical - that is debatable. I am against it because it changes everything about every kind of hunting everywhere it is practiced. Leaving those of us who prefer not to hunt over bait with little choice but to stay home.
In the area where I live, I must go somewhere and camp overnight to be able to hunt in a wilderness area without bait. There are dozens of leases around here that are always looking for members, but you are not allowed to hunt on those leases except by the approved deer farming/feeder gazing method. Those lands are out for me, so I hunt far less often than I would like to. I love bow hunting deer as much as anyone here, and I would love to have more options.
I found a few interesting links:
Georgia baiting controversy (http://www.scilowcountry.org/georgia_wildlife_baiting_controversy.htm)
Kill them with kindness (http://www.examiner.com/country-living-in-detroit/why-not-feed-and-bait-deer-kill-them-with-kindness)
Virginia (http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/news/release.asp?id=240)
I voted yes, even though I live in a state where it is not legal and I lived 6 years in a state where it was legal and did not bait. I only voted yes because the difference in my opinion between a small food plot and a corn pile is very small.
Thats just my opinion and you know about opinions, they are like A------S everyone has one.
Baiting women is legal cause its the only way us ugly guys can catch one. Luckily deer don't care if I'm ugly.
VOTE TO KEEP YOUR FREEDOM...
NOVEMBER IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER..
THE RUT IS COMING, ARE YOU READY?
A question for those who bait...
If you were up in your tree, over a bait, or food plot on public land, and someone unfamiliar with the fact that it and you were there... Came near your stand while carrying a bow and hunting in a "spot and stalk" manner.. As that particular area may have become precieved by him to be the place with the most deer sign. Would you consider him as ruining your hunt?? :coffee:
One more question... Are we trying to domesticate these deer, so that they in essance come to the food dish to eat just as cats & Dogs do? Or possibly, to the manger to eat as Beef or sheep? They too have become dependant on humans for "easy food".. That's why they come running when you rattle the food bucket or shake the food bag..
Of Course...thats just one opinion.. :scared: .
I'm not simply a person who lives thru the tales of others, with nothing better to do than start posts that get people bickering as this post is doing.. I'm going to move on from this topic now, and leave it too the "experts" to figure out..
BTW Timothy, I have a son who was born in 69 too and he's definately not of "my generation".. He's lazy, and can always find an excuse for doing it the "easy way" :coffee:
QuoteOriginally posted by L. E. Carroll:
A question for those who bait...
If you were up in your tree, over a bait, or food plot on public land, and someone unfamiliar with the fact that it and you were there... Came near your stand while carrying a bow and hunting in a "spot and stalk" manner.. As that particular area may have become precieved by him to be the place with the most deer sign. Would you consider him as ruining your hunt?? :coffee:
Had this happen a few times. I just make a low sound to get them to look at Me a wave them off. I have even pointed to a spot where I saw a deer.
To Me ( And this is only Me )99% of the time when on stand I just like being there. 1% of the time I want to kill/shoot/harvest/take which ever way You want to call it, get a animal down.
Hunting isn't about the kill or the size of the rack, it's just a piece of Mind. Those other things are a plus.. I hunt for food, So to Me a love DOE's better then Buck's.. I'm happy if a hunter stalks past me and gets a deer, Hell I'll even help them drag it out..
QuoteOriginally posted by L. E. Carroll:
One more question... Are we trying to domesticate these deer, so that they in essance come to the food dish to eat just as cats & Dogs do? Or possibly, to the manger to eat as Beef or sheep? They too have become dependant on humans for "easy food".. That's why they come running when you rattle the food bucket or shake the food bag..
Of Course...thats just one opinion.. :scared: .
I'm not simply a person who lives thru the tales of others, with nothing better to do than start posts that get people bickering as this post is doing.. I'm going to move on from this topic now, and leave it too the "experts" to figure out..
BTW Timothy, I have a son who was born in 69 too and he's definately not of "my generation".. He's lazy, and can always find an excuse for doing it the "easy way" :coffee:
As far as them coming in to a rattling food dish ,No but thats what we use antlers for.
An as far as generation goes at the age of 17 I was the youngest man in the Marine Corps,and I have worked 2-3 jobs all my life.I go to the woods and do the same as you,and maybe a little more.It has nothing to do with generation's. I don't think it's justification any more than an opinion.And you just posted your opinion on a thread that was asking opinions on a subject.And your post that you have better things to do than post on a thread for bickering purposes,thats what you just did! Twice!! is that a "generation thing"
I know i said i was done last night but I cant help it. Mystiguido and lpcjon2, if either of you shot a nice buck that died in the corn pile would you take a pic of said buck in the corn pile or drag him out a bit to more natural surroundings? I know, I know, we're all baiting. Corn piles are no different than ag fields or oak ridges. Pope and young, Boone and Crockets, SCI, any number of wildlif biologiust's stances on the subject dont matter but your's do, unless we run em down and break their necks we're not fair chase either, 200 kernels of corn to the square foot per acre is baiting, imported crops all the way back to the Mayflower are most definitely BAIT!!!! etc. etc.
These baiting threads would never get so long winded, atleast in my opinion, if you pro bait guys would stop saying baiting is no different than anyone elses chosen method. Its your right where legal and none of my buisness. But when you say that we're all baiting, and its all the same, etc. etc. it is my buisness and is real, real annoying!!
As for work ethics and how they pertain to hunting practices, I cant see any relevance at all. My neighbor whos a pretty good friend of mine works twice as hard, atleast physically, as me. He works 2 jobs and is never home. He bowhunts with a crossbow.
This thread is pointless. Unless the point is to argue amongst ourselves.
RAU
Well I dont put a pile(I spread it out) of corn down ,nor do I hunt over top of it.
As far as BC,SCI,PY and biologist and there stances dont mean a darn thing to me,they don't put food on my table.
And as far as the work thing that was a reply to the claim/insult that" my generation "(guys in there 40's) are lazy and take the easy way out and find excuses to justify it.
And re-read the post above yours and you will understand my response. I could care less that people may look at it different than me,But it's my time in the woods not yours. I hunt the way I need to as do you. And it was all in good debating and it is what it is. :thumbsup: :campfire:
And I'm done I have to get up early and go Bait! :goldtooth: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
quote:
Originally posted by lpcjon2:
And I'm done I have to get up early and go Bait! :knothead:
Good luck to all and shoot straight!
Your right, it is what it is. Goodnight.
I hope you all kill a big buck. No kidding.
Make sure you drag him or her back to the bait pile for a picture to post :laughing:
I prefer a 9 1/2' graphite or an 8'ultralite for my baiting pole. And I don't care what anyone else does as long as they don't hunt with a XXX.
OK
what about using doe in heat during the rut? Is it bait?hmmmmm
SL
I should put some feeders on my land, I hate lugging that clumsy Barnett compound crossbow around looking for deer, disability crossbow permit, anyone with a limp or sore shoulder can get one. On top of that I got sun burned today and it is going to rain tomorrow, I should put a rain proof and heated stand by the feeder, then I can get that big boy that has been running the area for sure while everyone else is indoors hiding from the weather.
I don't allow tree stands, carbon arrows, canpounds, baiting, guns, deer scents, or anyone with a Chevy pickup on my land. So tough, it is mine as long as the check clears, and I can do what I please with it. If I were to catch anyone baiting I would turn them in a minute. I did not kick the guy off with an osage selfbow, but did let him know he was pushing his luck with his doe pee in a bottle. Just kidding about the xbow.
QuoteOriginally posted by RAU:
These baiting threads would never get so long winded, atleast in my opinion, if you pro bait guys would stop saying baiting is no different than anyone elses chosen method. Its your right where legal and none of my buisness. But when you say that we're all baiting, and its all the same, etc. etc. it is my buisness and is real, real annoying!!
You're definitly right, if the pro bait guys stayed out of it the posts wouldn't be so long winded, because then it would be a one sided bashing of guys who bait and after three or four posts you'd run out of things to say. I mean after all there are only so many ways you can call someone lazy or say that your better than them. I got news for you, if you're hunting then in one way or another you are baiting the deer into the area you want them to be in. Unless, you go to an area that you have never hunted and wonder aimlessly about the woods until you see a deer at which point you atempt to spot and stalk said deer with no scents or calls. Just you and the deer with the wind in your face. That is the only way you can truly hunt without baiting.
Saying corn is baiting and fallen acorns aren't is like saying that artificial fishing lures are bait and worms aren't.
"Unless, you go to an area that you have never hunted and wonder aimlessly about the woods until you see a deer at which point you atempt to spot and stalk said deer with no scents or calls. Just you and the deer with the wind in your face. That is the only way you can truly hunt without baiting."
:thumbsup: I agree...I must actually be doing something right!!
That's about the exact way I hunt Mule Deer after driving 6 hours to the East Side of the State. I primarily hunt BLM grass and brush land along with a 1 sq. mile "School Section"... That section is a very broken up place with lots of old lava ridges, some pines growing and plenty of brush and "wild" pasture grass... You'll never find an apple tree, acorn or kernel of corn there. Not even a spring or pond[ so waterhole sitting is out]
This "School Section" is publically owned. If you check a map in WA state, you will find two school sections in each "Township". The revenue brought in thru the use of these sections, is "earmarked" for the Schools within that township. This one is of no particular commercial value. However, some years you may see that one of the local ranchers is leasing it to pasture his cattle on it. However, the rancher must "haul" in water for his cows.
BTW, the Little "Mulie" in my avatar used to call that particular area "Home". ;)
Gene
And yes, I had to come back and check this post "one more time" :goldtooth:
Same arguments as always:
Baitings no different than an oak tree,apple tree, cornfield.
I say "Bull" ! Theres plenty of oak trees,cornfields are MUCH bigger even if just a half acre, and why would anyone cut down an apple tree or any other food source for wildlife? It produces naturally just like the oaks.
Then theres always the argument "Its not easier"
I say " Bull" again. I've hunted both ways, and can tell you, it is. I'm sure these guys are spending all this money and time putting out hundreds of pounds of corn just to make it harder.
To top it off, its just another means of spreading disease.my $.02
Baiting is, and should be, legal here in Texas.
The great singer, Ethel Merman, said,"I've been rich and I've been poor. Being rich is better."
That's the way I feel about baiting.
Bill
QuoteOriginally posted by RAU:
I know i said i was done last night but I cant help it. Mystiguido and lpcjon2, if either of you shot a nice buck that died in the corn pile would you take a pic of said buck in the corn pile or drag him out a bit to more natural surroundings? I know, I know, we're all baiting. Corn piles are no different than ag fields or oak ridges. Pope and young, Boone and Crockets, SCI, any number of wildlif biologiust's stances on the subject dont matter but your's do, unless we run em down and break their necks we're not fair chase either, 200 kernels of corn to the square foot per acre is baiting, imported crops all the way back to the Mayflower are most definitely BAIT!!!! etc. etc.
These baiting threads would never get so long winded, atleast in my opinion, if you pro bait guys would stop saying baiting is no different than anyone elses chosen method. Its your right where legal and none of my buisness. But when you say that we're all baiting, and its all the same, etc. etc. it is my buisness and is real, real annoying!!
As for work ethics and how they pertain to hunting practices, I cant see any relevance at all. My neighbor whos a pretty good friend of mine works twice as hard, atleast physically, as me. He works 2 jobs and is never home. He bowhunts with a crossbow.
YES, I would... are You so scared not to? Does it really matter? I mean a Quick Clean Kill is what we are all after Right? So I can't see the big deal where it is when the Game falls.. Only chicken poop people would hide something like that, Not Me.. It doesn't bother Me so why would I care if it bothers You. I don't hunt just to make others feel better. I Hunt for Food for Me and My Family..
SCARED!?!?! Chicken poop people!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! I got nothing for ya mysticguido............. anyways im at work now but only til noon. At 12 look out!! Ive got a stand sitting about 50 yards off the back edge of a 100 acre clover field that the wind should work for, and im gonna bait them silly tonight!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!! Im really, really, most sincerely done now!!
This thread is still around? OMG! :smileystooges: :readit: :knothead: :help:
QuoteOriginally posted by SL:
OK
what about using doe in heat during the rut? Is it bait?hmmmmm
SL
:knothead: yes
anybody who uses any type of call,rattles horns,hunts over water and a ton of other methods is baiting plain and simple.its not how you draw the animal to you but simply the fact that you indeed are drawing the animal to you for a shot at it.i call elk,thats baiting them in,just like using a predator call a grunt call a bleat can a mouth reed a turkey call and on and on.you hunt over "ANY" food source you are using bait to get closer to them.i think the success ratio for hunters in general would decrease greatly if no baiting was used at all.i for one would quit hunting elk and take up fishing again (thats baiting to)if i could not use calls to bait them in.all you anti baiters must not be fisherman.
I'd like to vote but I'm not sure if yes means no and if no means yes.
I'm not crazy about baiting for deer, but anyhow...where do we draw the line?
At least the poll on this site is close to half and half. I created this same poll on a state hunting site that was to all methods including gun, it resulted in 80% being baiters.This tells me A little stronger ethics here.
:deadhorse: :deadhorse:
Stated and voted what I thought but man this is still here?
Is a water hole considered baiting? What if it's water in or from a man-made contraption...windmill for example?
papa bear there is no way I can agree with any of what you just said. Conditioning an animal with food repeatedly over and over is nothing close to to other things you describe. Baiting should be outlawed plain and simple
QuoteOriginally posted by LITTLEBIGMAN:
Baiting should be outlawed plain and simple
Why is That?
very confusing the way the answers are given.I think the No,baiting should be legal, means that I agree with baiting.Or did it mean "No baiting should be legal"Anyways I dont see it any different than baiting fish and getting them to hit a lure.Most people are ok with that.
Baiting and hunting other food sources, two totally different methods period.
Baiting= Placing a food product in a specific spot, only purpose is to draw in an animal to kill it.
All other food sources= Provide a food source and in some cases shelter (corn field ect.) for a long period of time and benifits many types of wildlife.
Earlier in this thread someone stated they needed to use bait to compete with the neighbors and there large bait piles. To me that is a great reason to ban baiting and level the playing field. Maybe then land owners would be more motivated to do some improvements to there property that would benifit ALL wildlife.
Just my thoughts.
I don't understand how people can be so confused about what is or ain't baiting. There's two ways to stand hunt, if you choose to think of it that way
Either:
A: You set up where you want to and use some artificial means to attract deer to your spot.
B: You spend some time in the woods, and figure out where the deer want to be, you go there (or anywhere between where they are and where they want to be) and set up.
You do not have to try to attract a deer by any means to have success, but I find that many people who primarily hunt over bait do not grasp that attracting deer to your stand is not strictly necessary. Maybe they assume that people who don't bait use some other means of attracting deer to them. If so, then I understand the "everything you do is baiting" argument. Otherwise it makes no sense.
I don't hunt over bait because it just doesn't sound like fun. I'm sure if I decided to take up baiting, there would be plenty of people in my state who could do it much better than me. Wealthier people, for example, do a heck of a job of it. I personally know a good many people who would not begin to know how to hunt without some strategy for attracting deer to them. Different strokes I suppose.
So with baiting you have a truck come and fill the feeder or spread grain on the ground and then you sit there in your hut, tree hut or dog house and wait for something to come and eat it. you don't work a field for pheasants do an end run on a traveling flock of turkeys, you don't jump a cottontail and take a quick lead and snap shot, you don't ever gasp for breath before you peak over the ridge to see if the elk are still there, you just sit and watch a pile of grain. Wow some people have all the fun. I would rather go bullhead fishing.
For those of you that consider any form of calling bait. I do not think there is anywhere in the U.S. that it is legal to hunt migratory birds over bait. According to the Michigan DNR baiting is defined as putting out food materials, salt or minerals for to attract, lure, or entice an animal as an aid in hunting. You may use a call for geese and ducks. So according to every state and federal law enforcement agency, there is a difference. I will notify them all on Monday of their grave mistake so that we may change all of the laws across the U. S. to coincide with what many of you consider bait. Wish me luck.
QuoteOriginally posted by randy grider:
At least the poll on this site is close to half and half. I created this same poll on a state hunting site that was to all methods including gun, it resulted in 80% being baiters.This tells me A little stronger ethics here.
Randy, I disagree. Just because someone chooses a different, but perfectly legal way of doing things than me, doesn't make him more or less ethical than me. I doubt you'd find too many people, especially here on TradGang, that don't consider themselves an ethical hunter. We just all have differing definitions of what that means TO OURSELVES.
If you choose to bait just man up and say so. But do not try to justify it by saying that calling, scents, cornfeilds, and apple trees are bait just to make yourself feel better about it . Next thing I'm gonna hear is that treestands and double bull blinds are bait. As I'm pretty sure that scrapes and rubs are bait also.
QuoteOriginally posted by onewhohasfun:
If you choose to bait just man up and say so. But do not try to justify it by saying that calling, scents, cornfeilds, and apple trees are bait just to make yourself feel better about it . Next thing I'm gonna hear is that treestands and double bull blinds are bait. As I'm pretty sure that scrapes and rubs are bait also.
Believe what You want to believe, it's all baiting.
Now there is some that call other HUNTERS unethical, Lazy, Not knowing how to hunt.. Give Me a Brake... Just because others Don't hunt the sameway as You, You have the nerve to call them Names... That's sad.
Is seems like those hunters are only Your friend when You stop being Yourself, and Being more like someone else.. The only time I down talk another hunter is when That A/H talks down to Me.. I'm for all types of hunting as long as it is legal.. Again "AS LONG AS IT IS LEGAL"
If You don't want to use any kind of bait, that's find Hunt Safely... If You do Use any kind of Bait, That's fine Hunt Safely..
Why does everyone need to fight with Other Hunters? I'll tell You why, But I'll be banned for Life because I'll tell it like it is...
All animals have different laws to help protect them from over hunting. Ducks( I am a former DU committee member) are protected locally and federally do to massive over hunting back in the day. Pheasants in many states(I know Jersey for sure)are placed/added into the field due to the lack of them.and most fields they live in are grown by man/farmers. Rabbits outside of residential areas are but extinct in Jersey :goldtooth: :goldtooth:
We've had feeders set up for 30 years in SC
Big bucks visit them all day and all night - baiting doesnt make animals nocturnal
Hunting them with guns over bait might. If you shoot everything that comes in the daylight aren't you then performing unnatural selection for nocturnal feeding?
If baiting is legal do it. If it isn't them don't
I'd be only concerned where CWD might be present
If you want to kill big bucks you won't do it with bait!
It's POLL by the way
No it's pole...and this one has been run up it enough.
Yea lpcjon2 I agree with that. We dont agree and nothings gonna change it. I'd still hunt with you. Your a traditional bowhunter you cant be that bad!
I would also hunt with you RAU, It gave us something to do. :campfire:
48% for baiting to 52% against
With many nuetral opinions tossed in.
I guess my liberal leave no trace ethic for wild land use has no place here.
I have baited before, and killed deer over bait.
I thought it was useful in getting my sons a slam dunk shot when they were just starting out.
I have never killed a mature buck over bait, never seen one come into it.
Now that we cannot bait in southern Michigan, my succes and sighting on big deer has gone up. It is my observation that deer move more during the day foraging for food when there is no bait around.
I think that there is an obvious difference between hunting over oaks or a corn field, and sitting over a pile of carrots. Going back to what I said about using bait when my sons were young...we used it to make the deer stand "right there"....a stand of oaks has deer feeding in every direction, upwind, downwind.....it's different.
I voted that I think baiting should be illegal. If given different options, I would have said large scale baiting should be outlawed....a guy throwing out a galon of corn isn't going to hurt anything.
When I go to the UP next week, I will set up 3 stands. One will be "enhanced"...I will take a dozen apples or so, and sliver them up and spread them around over a living room size area.I may never get to this stand, because odds are I will kill a deer or 2 elsewhere. But if I don't, and I REALLY feel the need to kill a deer, I will go there and shoot one.
One thing I can't stand is when guys will run down others techniques on hunting. I hate when guys say it's not "ethical" to use bait??? WHY, because your "tricking" the deer? Where do we draw the line? Is scentlock camo clothing unethical because it tricks the deer from seeing or smelling us? Are treestands unethical because the deer don't expect us to be hiding in the trees? What about grunt calls, scents, and decoys since they "trick" a deer, are these unethical?
How is sitting along a corridor to a food source a farmer planted, any different than a food source someone threw down in a pile? So what your saying is if God made an oak tree grow and drop acorns you can hunt over it, but if you threw down a bucket of acorns you can't? Where do you draw the line, and who decides?
Let's take 50 crossbow shooters and 50 recurve shooters and have an accuracy contest. It's fairly likely the crossbow shooters will have better accuracy. So couldn't you pose the argument that recurves would be "unethical" to hunt deer because it's more likely you could wound one? Everyone should obviously be shooting crossbows, so we should outlaw recurves for hunting!
My point is just because you think someone else's way of hunting is "easier" doesn't make it "unethical". I'm not about to limit someone else's hunting opportunities because I find them too easy, there's already a ton of anti-hunters out doing that for us! I believe it's a slippery slope when we start pointing fingers at each other. Ok off my soapbox :knothead:
upnorth,
Its all about perspective. There are some on here who live in states with one or two deer tags a year, or out West- trying to say baiting should be outlawed- and they're sounding like they believe themselves to be better hunters than guys who bait.
In the Southeast and in TX its thicker than anything most people can imagine. In South Carolina as well as GA, AL, MS, and other states deer rarely use the same trail EVER.
We get 100+ doe tags on our property of 6k acres we never fill- but try to fill- because our property is overrun with deer and we're trying to follow QDMA.
Everyone in southern SC baits- if you do NOT you get major recruitment of your wildlife OFF YOUR LANDS- especially deer, turkey, and hogs- in January February and March- when there's nothing else to be eaten.
Ethics are personal- legal is black and white- if its legal to bait, and you want to bait- don't let the members of the Trad Police make up your mind about what to do - do what meets your personal ethic and to heck with what other people think.
I live in GA and hunt whitetails here- baiting is not legal. I have no trouble killing game without baiting. That's not, or shouldn't be- the point of this discussion.
If you don't like baiting- don't bait- but don't run down others who do. There's quite a few people on here who like to hunt lions with dogs- why don't you start a poll and go after them too-let's get those guys...they're not REAL trad guys because if they were real hunters they'd do it the hard way- barefoot, in a loin cloth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YEA!!!
Then there's the issue of bears- in GA, you can't bait bears. It's one of the toughest hunts on the planet. You have to catch them in an oak tree feeding on acorns.... or raiding someone's back yard corn patch.
In Saskatchewan, its thick, you have a tough time sexing bears- its a bad idea to kill sows with cubs and I think illegal.
This seems to have transformed into something akin to political correctness- kind of like "you have freedom to hunt trad as you do it the way I do it" or you're a trad-woosie- that's horse puckey.
Ray - My perspective (in short, it is that small time baiting is no big deal, truck loads of beets and carrots are bad)is based entirely on my experience here in Michigan. I don't have a clue what deer hunting in Texas is like. I would suppose that a thick Michigan swamp is at least as thick as what you describe in Texas.
For the record, I don't think that small time baiting is ethically wrong. I've done it.
Here in Michigan, large scale baiting has been associated with bovine TB, and some of the big deer hunting clubs in northern Michigan have baited so much as to actually change the feeding patterns of deer for several square miles. The affect is drawing all of the deer off of public land onto a few hundred acres of private land.
For the most part, I have enjoyed my baitless hunts more, now that nobody can bait. I see more deer.
I'm interested in your observation that in that some of those southern states deer rarely use the same trail...what do you attribute that to?
I think we have different opinions here, but they are based on different parts of the country. I THINK that we have more public land to hunt here...4.5 MILLION acres of huntable state land. Drawing animals from that land onto private land with bait is a sticky subject. Here, where I live, I think that baiting of a sclae large enough to "recruit" animals is wrong.
It's interesting how things are different based on geography, public land vs private, etc....
QuoteOriginally posted by Gen273:
Here are some questions I have.
Is a white oak tree dropping a ton of acorns bait?
What about hunting the edge of a corn or soybean field?
How about hunting over an apple or persimmon tree?
I have hunted places where baiting is legal and places where it is illegal, and have killed deer and other critters under both circumstances. I am certain that all of this "my way is better than yours" attitude is detrimental to our passion of hunting. If it is legal and it suits you I have no problem with how or with what you kill them; like I said as long as it is legal. I don't have to agree with you to be friends with you; that is my take on a lot of the ethics hogwash. I feel we need to band together as hunters regardless of the way we hunt or even with what weapon we use to hunt. The liberals are trying to end hunting by pricing us avg-Joes out of the game. All I am saying is let's stick together and support one another even if their way is not our way.
I am for any kind of hunting under any circumstances as long as it is legal, even though that are some things I would not do myself.
Thank you and I totally agree with this theory. My best friend and I are both disabled vetrans and he can not physicaly hunt with a trad bow or compound any more and uses a crossbow legally. I personally would not hunt with one unless it was because it was all I had left to be able to get out into the woods with. But if anyone was to tell me that I should not hunt with him because he uses a crossbow and it would open a can or worms that would not be pretty. That is just my take on it anyways. But on the subject of baiting I feel that if that is how you want to do it then that is the way you should be able to do it.