Ok I see a lot of people with BW bows, espacialy recurves, are they realy great bows? are they worth the $$? they seem to be so many other bows out there, but so many BW, just curius!
Cheers
Their success says that many do believe their products to be worthy of such expense.
There may be some name recognition, and with the cost some non informed folks may purchase such a high end item and blab to others about how great it is, being pretty much clueless about it (simple snobbery).
And with longevity, brand recognition, you'll see more of their stuff used (again often by folks who were uninformed).
Critics of BW bows often point such things out.
And more than once such criticism, from my experience, was basef on simple jealousy.
Blackwidow bows are nice. Are they the best? Too subjective to be called that, people come in all shapes/sizes/preferences.
A well tuned Widow is a nice machine, but even then, it might not be right for some folks.
I happen to favor them, and think they to be worth the cost. Even on my crappy budget.
Oh sure, I'd love for them to cost less new, but the market says they are priced where they need to be. Having had 3 built over the last 20 yrs, it's really quite simple:
If ya want one, ya gotta pay for one.
Just the way it is.
I've shot other bows, some pretty nice ones, but for me, my favorite is a BW (SA2 actually).
IMHO try one out first (they have such a program). If ya like it, get one. Time on this rock is short, enjoy it, get what you want, don't settle.
The name is the big thing ,,there are plenty of good recurves out there ,many made in Canada that are just as nice and shoot just as good its like cars you want an exotic name you pay more !
I broke my left wrist 4 times, so the added mass weight and shock free shot were biggies for me.
I think there to be some subtle and not so subtle differences in BW recurves worthy of the cost. Some folks might not need, or can even distringuish, such differences. Lucky for them, they can shoot different and maybe cheaper bows and be just as happy.
I let a lot of people shoot my BW's over the years, some critics and cheapskates too. Many ordered their own after shooting mine, some never did but have been justifying not getting one with all sorts of rationalizations.
My old hunting bud, who has enough $ and always did have, said after all these years, that when I order my next one, he might too.
Might.
I drive a beater Jeep and shoot nice stuff.
I don't get a new truck every 2 yrs, of go to the Bahamas..... but some of my BW wannabes do.
They've spent a lot of money trying to find something comparable, and while that may be fun, think of the expense in time and $.
Again, if ya try one and like it, get it. They just keep getting more expensive and who knows how much tiem or $ you'll have down the road.
I remember getting my first BW, back in college. I didn't go out on weekends, walked to school, let my car sit, ate PB&J sandwiches for way too long and sold my other bow, to get it.
Was worth it too :)
Thank you guys, I kind of knew what I woud get as answers... I'm just looking for a great recurve to hunt, around 55# at 29+( I draw 29" on my long bows..) And I want something light and "fast"that can shoot heavy arrows, I hunt on the ground, a lot of the time from canoes and mainly Mr moose(Yukon moose)! Lets hear what you have to suggest!
Yes for me they r worth it I shoot them better than any other bow for some they may not be. I can pic my widows up and they r there right where I'm looking time after time no matter what other bow I'm shooting just pic one up and I'm on. I like trying other bows because its fun but they r not a widow its just not the same. Widow
They're nice, but may not be what you like.
I'd definately try before buying.
A bow is just part of a shooting system, and the whole system needs to be in tune.
Unfortunately, lots of people dis an item when it is they who have incorporated it into a less than ideal system.
Blaming the product when the user is at fault is a major peeve of mine.
One of the reasons I love not working in a bow/gun shop anymore, the urge to shoot such stupid people was getting too strong ;)
Do not have one but shot one . Yes they are worth it.
Ooooh, I get to use this one:
:goldtooth:
A few points to consider:
- There are many other brands just as expensive if not more so.
- There are precious few bow brands that have been around for as long as Black Widow, and as a result, precious few that have killed as much or more game than Black Widow.
- They really are "that" good; heaps of high-tech research and design goes into them.
- I like and support one-man-band bowyers, but it is comforting to know that when I'm much older, Black Widow have better odds of still being around.
- I believe I can bash them around without as much concern as with other bows; they are almost bomb-proof.
- Because of their CNC machine, I know that if ever I need another set of limbs for whatever reason, I don't need to send the riser over to them; the new limbs will automatically fit perfectly.
- I hear they're expensive... Man, you should compare them to nice rifles, or a fishing boat, or a motorbike, or even a tricked-out latest compound bow! They're pretty cheap, compared to those!
If you make a search on PowWowyou'll see a lot of threads about them and a lot of guys will jump in.The reason is that a lot of people have tryed them and they are a reference point in judging bows.I have several different customs to compare:they are among the best,not my prefered but I wouldn't like to stay without.
i like my widow longbow.i wouldn't say it was the best.i think they are worth the cost.i shoot home made selfbows now.this thread is making me want to get the widow out again.you can pick up a used widow cheaper and without the long wait.good luck to you,steve
I owned a used black Black Widow (MAB model) years ago. Killed my first two deer with trad with it. They are very good bows. Buy used and save some money doing that. I wish I still had mine but I absolutely love my Pittsley Predator Custom Classic.
Also, the waiting time for a new Black Widow is one of the best (shortest) times in the industry.
They are a high quality well made bow,and they do cost alittle more then most but they are not the most expensive bows out there.They have a higher resale value then most other bows.
Hey Ben, I get to use this one. First time!
QuoteOriginally posted by Ben Kleinig:
Ooooh, I get to use this one:
:goldtooth:
A few points to consider:
- There are many other brands just as expensive if not more so.
- There are precious few bow brands that have been around for as long as Black Widow, and as a result, precious few that have killed as much or more game than Black Widow.
- They really are "that" good; heaps of high-tech research and design goes into them.
- I like and support one-man-band bowyers, but it is comforting to know that when I'm much older, Black Widow have better odds of still being around.
- I believe I can bash them around without as much concern as with other bows; they are almost bomb-proof.
- Because of their CNC machine, I know that if ever I need another set of limbs for whatever reason, I don't need to send the riser over to them; the new limbs will automatically fit perfectly.
- I hear they're expensive... Man, you should compare them to nice rifles, or a fishing boat, or a motorbike, or even a tricked-out latest compound bow! They're pretty cheap, compared to those!
I'm with Ben. Well said.
BW also has customer service second to none, and a great "try before you buy" program that is worth utilizing if you are seriously interested in a Widow.
Try one for yourself. I am shooting them because I like them. You may not. Test drive one it cost the shipping and will give you your answer. Plus mine is the prettiest bow in my eyes. Big Ed
NO....you are not just paying for the name as Gordon posted.
I don't own one, but this spring I spent 4 days at thier plant with Fred Asbell for the shooting clinic. I shot every BW availble, more than once. I spent time with Roger and the boys going through the build and finish process. Wonderful quality, outstanding service, and so many models no doubt they have something that will fit you.
I have so many Shrew bows hanging on my wall it would be kind of silly to buy a new bow right now, but when I get the itch for a full sized recurve, it will absolutely be a Black Widow.
Wait until spring and then go to one of the big ronda's and you can shoot them all day long. I did when I was looking for a new custom bow. I tried one but it wasn't for me, different strokes for different folks. I ended up with a Leon Stewart 3 pc. R/D LB.
I have an older BW MAII built back in '92 I think it was. It has served me beautifully for nearly 20 years and is as smooth, fast, and quiet as any other recurve out there. In most respects I find it superior to most others out there.
When I bought my bow I was still working and doing alright financially. Health issues forced me into early retirement and a very limited income. I am so grateful that I bought a BW bow for I know it will serve me well for another 20 or 30 years with a little care on my part. And when I am done with it, one of my grandsons will likley enjoy it.
If you can get one, my advice is get it!
There are many bows out there that will out perform and may be less costly.....In most cases you love them or hate them. I have one, an old MA Graybark I got used for $375. It's a great bow that I will keep for ever. You have to try a BlackWidow to make up your own mind. And when you do make sure you try several models.......you may be surprised!
I have been shooting trad stuff since the mid 60's. I started with a Bear. Over the years went through several and for a time shot "wheels". Came back and decided to "shop around" for a curve. Got a used PA after shooting it for a week. I loved the bow. Other posters are correct. The bow needs to fit you. This PA fit me. I now have three Widows.
Bottom line.... you need to try one or two.
Some excellent advice has been given.
What you do with that advice is totally up to you.
Back in 07 i crushed the limb tip on my Widow.When i got home i gave them a call to see if they could cut the limb off and repair it.I spoke to Toby.He explained to me that shouldnt be done.But he did offer to ship me a set of limbs to use until i could afford to buy another set.I told him i didnt know when that would be.He said thats fine just keep them as long as i needed.I explaind that i had another bow to hunt with and wasnt really comfortable takeing their limbs like that.Then he told me to hang on while he talked to the other guys.When he came back to the phone he offerd me a set of demo limbs exact same specs as mine for haif price.Thankfully i have a understanding wife.I have never heard of that kind of service from anyother bowyer out there.Are they worth i absoloutly.Jim
Their quality and customer service has proven itself time and time again over many years, and I'm sure they will be around for while.
Try one, if it works for you I would go for it. I dont own one but would like to try a PTF or PA one day if I'm in the market for a recurve.
Their rack of demo bows they haul around is surely impressive. They realize someone is contemplating spending alot of money and want to give them the opportunity to make sure they make the proper decision.
Eric
Many Moons ago, I posted a thread - "For the love of a Black Widow" It had many pages of responses. You may wish to look at this thread.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=083682
I cant keep my hands off mine.
I had hurt my left arm skiing Christmas Eve 3 years ago. To make it worse, I had a hog hunt set in late winter of that year. I ran into the Widow boys at the Missouri Bowhunters a couple months later, and they offered to loan me a set of light limbs so I could go. I did not ask, they just offered. They sent me a set of light limbs, I went on the hunt thanks to the guys at the Widow Works. Sometimes just saying thank you is not enough. They will always have my business. 4 Widows hanging on the rack right now, and my PCHX will be heading to the woods in a few hours with me.
QuoteOriginally posted by David Yukon:
Ok I see a lot of people with BW bows, espacialy recurves, are they realy great bows? are they worth the $$? they seem to be so many other bows out there, but so many BW, just curius!
Cheers
There is as much reason to get one than not to:
-if you want a CNC crafted bow with better performance level and lower price go for Pittsley's predator or Belcher recurve bow or lot of others
- if you are in the search for a 1000$ or + bow: you will find a lot of fine bowyer in north america capable to fulfill your dreams, some of them close to you in Canada like Abe Penner @ Cari bow.
- if finally you want to join the BW shooters tribe, indeed, you will own a good, very reliable, long lasting, average performer hunting bow.
Anyway before buying a BW or another priced bow, you should try it. :dunno:
I'm with Ben
David, your question about Widows is just one of many, but I must say these are the most sensible and real responses a fellow can get. You have to try one. Good luck.
Shick
Irish, I don't own a BW bow...at least not yet. I've often heard that BW customer service is second to none. But I have to say that your experience has to be the best of example of that I've yet heard. Thanks for sharing.
I was bowfishing with my SA2 at a reservoir, saw a decent carp scoobying away along the spillway, ran down the embankment to circle around.....
got too much speed and my sneakers were already wet.........no brakes!!!!!!!!
Of course directly ahead (yet at some distance below) there were some huge boulders.
I tried compression braking (clamping off my nose and another orifice in preparation for a nasty contact). Tried to save the bow by crashing myself.
Partner said it was a horrific smack sound. I took 90% of the crash, didn't steer around the rock was gashed and bleeding all over (pouring out in some places).
The bow spun in my hand and tinged the rock as I went partially over it. Bow held together, didn't even come unstrung, but received a nasty gash in front limb glass.
Called BW, they repaired it for free, fast too, and the repair looked darn good. It cracked later in deer season, after smoking a doe, buck and two 'possums.
Called them again, sent it in, they deemed it unsafe and the bow was 4 yrs old. They offered to make me a new one just like it for $134.
Got me a copy in short order, shot just as good as the one before (took a few deer with it before I had shoulder/back probs that forced going back to compound for a few yrs).
BW customer service is FANTASTIC.
Now here's a little more for ya...........I like nice stuff, but only buy from good guys. I'll buy nice but lesser stuff from a great person, rather than buy the best from a jerk.
Blackwidow is nice stuff from nice people.
That is why I buy them (well I can actually hit stuff with them too) ;)
Met Ken back in '88, shot along side him at the practice bales with my MA2 at Cloverdale.
Gentleman through and through.
New gang is just as honorable.
Thank you guys for all the info on the bow and service. As for trying before buying, it is not realy possible for me, since I live in the middle of no where and that BW try out program is only for the US... I understand...
I have 2 bows from Canadien bowyer, one that doesn't make bows any more and the other is from Cari-Bow. I like the bows, but would love to have a recurve in the 55# range...
That said, maybe one day I will be able to try one out!!
Thank you again!
Can't go wrong with a Cari-bow, from what I have heard, as they are one swet looking unit
Your decision appears to be quite sound.
BW offers both compendable bows and service.
In no way does that translate into taking a chance on an untried bow unless you can afford the gamble. We are all indivuals and have our own particular needs. This the same recommendation I would offer for any other higher priced bow.
I often find may self in the same predicament on most of the bows I find interesting. Gambled once on a much more expensive bow and got bitten badly. Yes, the bow was wonderful but we were an absolute mismatch. I also had shot a buddy's bow over the past sevweral years, that was 7#'s heavier than what I was accustomed to, yet it always felt more comfortable to me than the bows I had shot 1000's of times. I relented and unfortunately paid the price but fortunatley have been utterly satisfied. And yes I would do again.
Finding the right bow that is individually right for you is the prise.
Remain patient and the fact that there are so many BW's significantly increases your chances of running across one.
The are a few good archers that can pick up any bow and shoot it well. However, they would prefer a bow that fits them naturally.
I shot a CAri-Bow recurve, and was very impressed. I also own a widow, and don't plan on selling it.
You might pick up a used one, and if it's not for you, or you decide you want a new one. Then you should have no problem selling the widow. That's just another reason to buy one, they hold their value better than any bow I know.
The origional post is "Why a BW"?
My answer.. I don't know !!! :knothead: In my case, I have found bows I like better made by other very good craftsmen.. My favorites being Morrison, Schafer, Jack Kemp's Qwyk Styk, and John Mc Colough's Griffins [ in no particular order]. No one can tell me these bows do not hold their value..When was the last time you saw a K.S. in the classiifeds?
Most of my problem with the BW's was the noise and the overkill I felt necessary to make them quiet, and the fact that I never saw the "speed" others always refered too.
I must admit they are "pretty," and and I shoot well with them, However, I shoot as good or better with my choices and consider them by my defination, to be "customs" as they are in most cases built by one guy. Not by an assembly line as some factory bows seem to be.
I'm sorry,but you asked why, and I guess I answered why IMO. "Why Not" somethimg else.
Gene
My first BW was not fastflite strung. My other two were. None of them seemed noisy to me, and other folks told me they were surprisingly quiet.
I shot 2216's and carbons to 480 grains, on bows 55-62#@28". All three were takedowns.
So the noisy BW thing, I'm just not getting.
I have no problem with the "assembly line". Heck, I'd like a Ferrari and they're built on such evil production things.
Trying to see if your statement about used bows was just a stand alone on thos models you listed or if you are hinting at something else.
I have shot a couple and while I liked them I was not overly impressed. They were not a good fit for me.
Everything I have ever heard about them is that BW is top in customer service, they are great at making bows ( they make a lot of them ), and have a huge following of BW lovers. For me the customer service is a huge part in this. You can't go wrong when you buy american and get top notch customer service. I would take the advice here and try one out for the cost of shipping. You may just find out they are the bow for you.
I've always thought of Black Widow Bows as being the Harley-Davidson of the trad world. Customers tend to be fiecely loyal to the Black Widow brand, just as Harley owners are. Nothing whatsoever wrong with that. In fact it's undoubtedly a good thing.
But when push comes to shove, you'll probably have just as much luck convincing a Harley rider to buy a Honda or Yamaha as you will in convincing a Black Widow devotee to part with his bow. It is my opinion Black Widow has managed to create an aura about them, either by design or by accident, that somehow seems to capture the essence of what it means to be a traditional bowhunter. Whether one shoots a Black Widow or not, I believe this is something that should be appreciated by the entire traditional bowhunting community.
Hookeye,
I'm not sure what your refering to in the second sentence in your last post. :wavey:
I have had BW take downs and target bows. They shoot great, but for me, I prefer the agile handling of Hill style and Robertson longbows.
QuoteOriginally posted by David Yukon:
Thank you guys for all the info on the bow and service. As for trying before buying, it is not realy possible for me, since I live in the middle of no where and that BW try out program is only for the US... I understand...
I have 2 bows from Canadien bowyer, one that doesn't make bows any more and the other is from Cari-Bow. I like the bows, but would love to have a recurve in the 55# range...
That said, maybe one day I will be able to try one out!!
Thank you again!
Abe Penner can craft you a heck of recurve bow as well. check out on his web site.
Deer don't care how much you spend :)
I doubt any deer I shoot is gonna feel slighted in the afterlife because I shot it with a Tradtech and not a Blackwidow.
What I like about BW's is that they shoot very well for me and I don't have to modify them to do so (SA2's).
FWIW a bud has a Chastain that fits me really well too.
I've tried a lot of other bows, factory and custom, and those two fit me best.
My Pinnacle 2 Tradtech is pretty decent for the money..........but I spent 5 hrs modifying it with a Dremel.
Had to do the same to a Samick Phantom.
Figuring in my time, skills, risk of damage etc........it's a lot better IMHO to just buy a rig that you can shoot well without modification.
I have been eyeing them for a while and last week I tried my friends. I believe was a PSA and all I can say is Ive been on there website most of the day today at work. Im just trying to figure out which bows to sell to get the funds. LOL
I've been shooting a well designed longbow made by a seasoned boyer for the past 6 years. I ordered a new BW PLX this summer and received it six weeks ago. Both bows are #55 and the BW is 2" longer. The BW has proven to be a more stable bow that has tightened my groups and added 10 yards to my effective range. A bad day with the BW is about like a good day with my previous bow.
That being said, I believe that there has to be a psychological symbiosis that forms between you and your bow. Whether or not you experience that symbiosis depends on how a bow looks, feels in your hand and shoots for you. BW makes an excellent bow. Only you can decide if it's the bow for you. Take a test drive.
If I was in the position to order a new bow tomorrow it would be another Black Widow. They have gone way out of their way for me over the years and have earned my business and loyalty.
Lots of cheap, pretty and fast bows out there and most any will shoot for you under normal situations. But if you hunt in weather or places where your hunt (or perhaps even your life) may ride on the dependability/durability of your bow, you'll appreciate a Widow. It is one tough SOB.
Phantom double post!
I own a BW PSA III and love it better than a longbow I bought years ago. My wife said to me last week, "sometimes I think you love that bow, more than me!" I just laughed it off, but I really do love shootin', messin' with my bow!
Try one, you might just like it! good luck.
Kennyb
i purchased a new one a few years back and its a good bow. i have had several custom bows thru the years,and I think that its all in what you like. There are many other good bowyers out there. Shoot as many as you can before making a purchase. Most trad archers are good people who will let you shoot their bows. I killed a deer with mine last Sunday morning, and ordered a new RER bow on monday. The only draw back to my widow is that it is a take down PMA. They are kinda heavy. The guys at BW are terrific to deal with and very helpful. I'm not an expert by far. I do as you have done and ask a lot of questions. Good luck, and I agree buy used. There are many good people on this site that have bows for sale. Honestly used bows are not bringing much right now so its the time to buy.
You can find faster, prettier, quieter, cheaper, more expensive, etc. But I am not sure you can find a more dependable bow. Maybe some other match it but I don't know of one that beats it. That's the bottom line with me.
I have shot hundreds of bows over the last 50 yrs and the best bow was a widow a guy had at the indoor range. I shot it with my arrows and the first 5 shots was a 25 4X. The guy that owned the bow turned down every attempt I made to buy that bow over the next two years but I did get to shoot it a lot. Finally did buy another used widow in perfect condition but I never shot good with it, (poundage a bit too high).
Kenny B I thought i was the only one who had a wife say that.
Would an engagment ring fit on a BW limb. :biglaugh:
I have to echo a couple others with customer service comments, There is not a boywer or bow company with better customer service. period, one of my best friends builds a great longbow, but BW has him beat in the CS dept. LOL..
I also had a pretty bad injury a few years ago breaking a bicep tendon on my left arm (i shoot lefty) and had a big hunt coming up, i decieded to forgo surgery and the guys at black widow loaned me a set of lighter limbs at no charge. they have time and again proven them selves.
thier bows fit me well and all have a very solid feel at the shot, speed is average to me, but the bow is as bullet proof as one can be I believe, they are designed as a hunting bow and excel in that
I have several, an SA111 with three sets of limbs and a 07 PL11 longbow. Some of the things that I've seen said about BWs as drawbacks are not necessarily true in my opinion. If you get the heavy string off them and shoot with half a cat whisker at each end and no tip protector, they are in fact very quick and quiet. I've checked them on the chrono's with heavy arrows and they keep right up or out shoot a lot of brands. I've seen it. But there really isn't a bunch of difference in speed with the top brands, just a click here and there. Sometimes you will see bows that are fast with light arrows and becoming much more mundane with really heavy arrows and so on. Not with the better bows for sure. And then there's the BW service......
:biglaugh: my wife has said exactly the same thing :i mean exactly,my bw is my ,almost daily stress relief , and sometimes im sure she wonders; great post. chuck
Black Widow Bows are just freakin awesome. Test drive one and find out for yourself.
Scott
good luck
I always found them to be heavy,and overpriced.Just my opinion. I bought a JD Berry longbow and didn't need any customer service.I paid half the price of a Widow and the Berry is waaay nicer. It was there when he said it would be and now its the only bow I have. To each his own. :archer2: