I talked to my son tonight who'd just come in from bowhunting near Black River Falls, WI. Coming back to his cabin after dusk he'd stopped on a hill for a few seconds when he heard a sound behind him. He swung his flashlight to his back trail and was shocked to see a pack of 7 or 8 timberwolves just 10-15 yards away. They looked at him for a few seconds until he yelled at them, and then they ran down the hill to his side. He quickly finished the hike to the cabin but they continued to shadow him all the way back, staying about 30 yards off to one side. My thoughts are they were either curious about what he was doing or they were being territorial to an intruder in "their" territory. Either way this experience really got to him. His voice still had some alarm in it when he was telling me the story an hour later.
Can only imagine what was going through your son's head. Must have been quite erie. Just glad he made it back to safety.
I would not wish that experience on anyone.
I have been hearing about wolves in WI. My Brother has told me several Bar stories that were not credible and a bit over the top. I have heard them as far south as Richland center and know one was shot near our family farm.
Wolves are big and if I was your son, I would be a little unnerved also.
It is rumored wolves in Wi are almost to hunt able levels and they may start having a lottery and season of them.
Id imagine if you placed the meanest, baddest,tatooed, mixed martial artist, cage fighter up against a pack of hungry timber wolves the said fighter would be transformed into wolf food in a hurry! Id be rattled too!! Glad your sons ok!
Wolves in Wisconsin are way past huntable numbers. The reestablishment goal set several years ago was 300 animals. Now, most estimates place the population at a thousand or more. U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is trying to delist them, but anti-hunting groups keep tying up the action in the courts. In addition to farm livestock, they're killing a fair number of hunting dogs and pets. Can follow their activities on the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources Web site. I hunt in the far northern part of the state, and it's not that unusual there to be escorted out of the woods by a wolf or wolves.
When I am bowhunting down in the desert at a dam or trough on my own, I like to have the little Winny (.30/30) with me just in case the dingoes get a bit friendly like that. It hasn't happened to me yet, but I have heard stories, so the little rifle makes me feel better.
I am starting to hear too many stories about wolf and not that many pics of them down.
Wolves will generally avoid humans, however one should never underestimate what a pack of wolves will do. Remeber, these are natures greatest predators. Right off there is no question that these wolves would have circled enough to get your son's scent and they still followed him. Once he confronted them they chose to still pursue. A good friend of mine had a single wolf follow him and his daughter for over two hours. My friend kept a very close eye on the wolf and did not tell his daughter (10yrs at time) what was happening. The wolf attacked in the end and was headed for his daughter, he shot it with at savage .22/.410 combo he was carrying for grouse.
I have had wolves follow me while fishing rivers in the north. It is not a very fuzzy feeling at the best. I'd recommend your son carry big cannister of pepper spray at minimum and perhaps a small calibre pistol if law permits. With some luck hopefully the pack will move on out of your area. If they don't the deer hunting will not be very good.
I heard on some program that there aren't any credible reports of wolf attacks on humans in the entire history of record keeping.
Having said that, I would worry that I could be the 1st if I found myself in your son's shoes.
I seriously doubt that remembering that good news wouldn't have meant very much to me had I been in his situation..lol
God bless,Mudd
Want to see what wolfs are doing to hunting dogs in wisconsin? Go to www.dnr.state.wi.us (http://www.dnr.state.wi.us)
There are maps that show how many hunting dogs have been maled or killed by wolfs.That is the ones that have been reported. They are however neet to heare at night. Sure will make the coyotes shut up fast. But when you hear a wolf 20 min. before dark, and you have a mile hike to camp. All your senses are working over time on the 2 min. mile you are about to do.
In March of this year a teacher in a remote village in my home state of Alaska was killed by wolves while jogging a few miles out of the village.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/13/nation/la-na-wolf-attack13-2010mar13
I've almost always carred a handgun when out and about in AK, but for bears, not wolves. Never ever seen a wolf in the wild.
Mudd,
Maybe not in Missouri, but there are lots of them up here. Last year, wolves attacked and killed a guy in Alberta. In Ontario last year a wolf attacked five people on a beach on Lake Superior before wardens shot and killed it. We had a girl (jogger)killed by a pack of coyotes in Nova Scotia earlier this year. Our Ministry of Natural Resources has lots of these stories, they just choose not to say too much.
Just about any of my buddies that have spent enough time in the bush in Northern Ontario can tell a story similar to this one here. It is not all that rare. One of my moose hunting buds had a pack suround him in a marsh last year. They circled him all the way back to the cabin. All he had was his compound and he said he has never been that scared in his life. After shouting at them they closed in even closer and he feels he was damm lucky to make the cabin. He'd had enough after that and trapped 8 of them on his place last winter.
What we must realize is that game numbers in North America are higher at present than ever in most cases. As most game flourishes the predators will flourish even more due to good food supply.
Then you have the wonderful folks that think they should reintroduce predators to keep game numbers down. This of course does exactly what they intended but only in much bigger numbers than they figured. Thus causing the predators to flourish at higher rate and expand their territory. If not stopped you will see wolves in Missouri in the next 50yrs.
I stand corrected.
I guess that just because the Animal Planet program has been telling us something as fact doesn't make it "a true fact".
Now at least I feel better about why I would be uneasy even when "armed" with Animal Planet "truths"....lol
God bless,Mudd
Just watched a TV show on Wolf and Coyote attacks. They are on the rise big time. Wolf's kill and attack more people then you'd think. To many wolf's living to close to humans.
If it were me I wouldn't waist any money going to Alaska for a Wolf!!
I was moose hunting a few weeks ago and we had some wolves come into our calls just before dark. We never saw them but when they howled it sounded like they were right next to us. This is the second time I have had them come in to moose calls.
I'm waiting anxiously to hear from him this morning as he said he was still going out again today in spite of his experience last night, but he was taking a hand gun. I think it's all territorial, but I don't know for sure. A few years ago I had two wolves cross my trail in the snow and urinate on either side of my tracks. There's a pack of 13 wolves on our family property according to our local Dept of Natural Resources, and talking to one of them about this incident they said the wolves were telling me this was their territory but I could cross it. Interesting stuff, although 8 wolves that close to you in the dark is more excitement than I'd want.
Stories like this have become more and more common. The U.P. of Michigan has many stories very similar to the one described. Too many! Imagine how many people have stories to tell who have`nt told them.
It is the wolves checking for weakness. It is what they do. If it was a territory dispute, your friend would have been in real trouble. Ask any hunter who has lost a dog due to territory disputes. There is no warning...it begins and it`s over.
Imagine a couple young girls out hiking. Six or seven wolves appear within fifteen yards. They panic, scream, and run. One is faster than the other, or one falls down. With wolves behaving like this, it is only a matter of time.
Wolves should be absolutely terrified to be anywhere NEAR a human. We should see only tracks and scat. A wolf...ANY wolf, that is unafraid of humans is a bad wolf, and they will teach other wolves to be bad wolves. A wolf should tremble in fear of the slightest whiff of a little girl.
Wolves behaving like this is OUR fault. "We the people" have allowed it.
Fifteen yards?!!!?...In the dark?!...Following me after I yelled at them!?! My .40 Smith would have been speaking loud and proud. Some folks might not like that statement...but it`s the truth. I was attacked by ONE Rotwieller that was just coming on 1 year old, and I had my hands full. Rotwiellers do not have to rip out throats for a living, so I`m sure wolves are better at it.
Instinctive shooting works great for more than just bows.
Y'all need to handle that situation. If you killed one would the others eat it? Just a thought.LCH
I'm glad we don't have wolves in Texas.
My close friend has land in Black River Falls. You are right, there are ALOT of wolves there. He has caught them on his camera and they are reaking havoc on the fawn population..IMO, they are out of control
Amen to Night Wing's post. Coyotes are bad enough in parts of Texas. If legal it would be nice to carry a sidearm when tracking down game in wolf country.
Get a pistol and carry it.
Glad they are not down here. That is spooky.
You don't need a permit to carry a handgun openly. It's a Freedom Guaranteed By The Constitution of the United States.........The Right To Bear Arms...period.
Get a side arm at least .40 cal or larger, get a nice holster for it, and carry it!
If I were hunting in wolf country, I would not leave home without it. Even though most states regs say you cannot carry a bow and a firearm at the same time, there's still a matter of protecting yourself, and the point is......how much is that regulation going to mean to you if your ripped to shreds? I'll take my chances carrying a sidearm and then fight it in court if they want to push the issue with a fine or otherwise.
And just for the record....I'm a Legal Beagle, but I won't take chances with my life if there's a way to even the odds.
I carry my 10mm from time to time around here, not because of wolves (cause we don't have any) or even coyotes, but stray dogs that are now wild. People dump them out and they revert back to their wild instincts, then have pups that are wild, and you know where I'm going with this.
I've seen them, my neighbor has seen them, and I've had a big white one up close and personal to my blind numerous times. I just haven't got a chance to put that one down yet, but he's at the top of my To Do List.
I've also had them stand just far enough away to be out of range, and bark and growl at me while I'm leaving my hunting spot and headed back home. That's an eerie feeling when it's nearly complete dark, no flashlight, and no firearm....only a bow that won't do you any good if you can't see.
BTW Precurve- I'm glad your boy is ok, and very happy that he didn't let it deter him from doing what he loves to do, and also the decision to go afield this time a little more protected. That experience would have made most guys quit the sport for good. :scared:
I have a home in Oneida county and a cottage on a lake in Vilas county.
A few years back when I first saw a wolf in the woods and I heard them howl during the night, it was a cool experience. But now their population has exploded. Sadly they seeem to have lost their natural fear of human beings and that's what makes them dangerous. Right now it's the loss of horses cows sheep pets etc. I don't want to get into the depredation of the deer. But I'm afraid it's only inevitable that something much worse will happen.
Now there is a common saying around here, 'shoot shovel and shutup'.
LP
Building the mythology one brick at a time
This reminds me of the fear around killer bees.
Something to be aware of and watch out for certainly.
But the sky is not falling and the world is not flat. Wolves are what they are. But you have a better chance of getting hit by lightening than being attacked by them. Mtn lions, moose. wild dogs, falling through the ice. These will get you before a wolf ever does.
I agree that a season on them is becoming necessary. But I don't plan on wearing a bite proof ballistic vest any time soon.
Things change. Change with it or grind your teeth into powder stressing about what you can't change back. Thats life. Bend with it or break.
I'm not directing this at anyone but at the idea we need to fear wolves or hate them. Understand them and act accordingly, yes, Be smart in the woods, yes. Take management into our own hands? No. Ignore the laws that manage game for all of us to enjoy? No.
This issue will work itself out within the rules we all live within. We are, after all, a nation of laws.
Joshua, aware, but not buying into the fear/hatred.
All it will take is for a pack of wolves to eat an anti hunting activists child and then you will be able to hunt them all you want.
I'm not saying its funny someone should get attacked but It's funny how people will change their perspective after an extreme event. The truth is We live in a reactionary world. Nothing will happen until something happens. (dogs dont count)
I once met an extremist anti-hunter who changed her tone when $10,000 worth of shrubbery was eaten. Be patient and smart, you'll get your season.
I agree 100% with Joshua!
Joshua, please don't take this the wrong way because I'm not being hateful or disrespectful toward you or anybody else.
I just want to reply to your statements for the sake of clarity.....I don't hate wolves at all.
I think they are beautiful animals, but so are bears, and so are alligators and sharks. All magnificent creatures and at the top of their predatory food chain....I simply have to admire that and respect that, but on the other hand it still doesn't change the fact that you don't turn your back on them because they aren't your local bully Rottweiler down at the end of the street.
Respect them....absolutely....fear them...depends on how close.....hate them...absolutely not.
But I dang sure wouldn't go wading around in the bayous of Louisiana armed only with a stick, or into bear country with a switch, nor swim in shark infested waters wearing a suit that mimics a seal either. There's a reason why you often see guides with rifles backing up a bowhunter in the Yukon who has set out to kill a bear with bow and arrow.
There's also a fine line between fear, respect, and downright stupidity that I don't intend to cross.
And about the 3 S's statement, I don't agree that is the answer. I wouldn't set out to kill a wolf just out of hatred or malice. Only if I was confronted and had no choice or thought I was about to be attacked would I kill one unless I had a tag to legally take one. Otherwise it would just be a few warning shots in the general direction of the pack to send them running in the opposite direction away from me, but I would always be packing heat just in case.
I'm glad we don't have them in Missouri because I rather enjoy being the largest predator in my neck of the woods, and I'll save the wolf viewing with remote in hand and animal planet or Discovery Channel on the boob tube. :coffee:
The odds of getting struck by lightning ARE much greater than being attacked by wolves...unless you happen to be hiking back to your cabin in the dark, and find yourself within fifteen yards of a group of them.(commonly known as a pack) With a pack of eight wolves, 15 yards away, I`m betting your odds of getting attacked are much greater than getting struck by lightning. At a point somewhere along the way, these wolves have LEARNED that humans are not a threat. They have become BAD wolves, because good wolves would change their course for the evening, just by crossing a human beings scent.
I have never seen a wild wolf. I HAVE seen their tracks, and heard them howl.
I want wolves to thrive in healthy numbers wherever there is enough ground to support them without their presence causing problems. The fact is, they ARE causing problems, and it is getting worse quickly...because the LAW is protecting them to the point of them BECOMING a problem. {The LAW has allowed them to become a problem.} My tax dollars pay for their protection, and my tax dollars sometimes pay for damage they cause. I guess thats the law.
Just because something is LEGAL, it does not mean it is right...and vice-versa.
thank God he's ok.i don't know what i would do in that situation.that would rattle anyone i know.good luck to you fellas,steve :scared:
That's pretty wild. Most of the stories I hear are about the comeback of the Mountain Lion.
I hunt Upstate NY and Northern VA. I hear rumors about Moutian Lions caught on trail cams. Seen the photos even. I believe they are true.
I have come across wolves in the wild many times in the lower 48. I have been lucky to see these animals.
My first wild wolf sighting was in 1988. When this wolf saw me it took off so fast I never even saw its face. This was a true wild wolf. Not one that was re-introduced into the wild. I then saw one again in '95 and again as soon as it knew what I was it took off.
Shortly after this the first wolves were let loose in Yellowstone. Now, one can watch them from the road and their cars.
Of all wolf encounters I have had in MN the wolves don't leave or have fear of man. I think that all of the handling done by men and women eradicated this fear.
If you truly want to have the wolf wild and back to the original creature then it needs to be hunted in support of conservation.
This will alone give it back to it's true nature of canis lupis and thus achieving the ultimate success story in animal management.
Ask those who want to protect the wolf if they want a wolf as a true wolf in the wild or merely a shadow of itself who sees man as a creature that will enable. If they want the true wolf back then they need to allow hunting of this animal so that it can achieve its complete freedom. A freedom were there is no connection to man for support.
That gave me chills just reading it. There's really not much you could do in a situation like that. Glad to hear of the outcome.
I lived in Eagle River for 3 years and never saw a wolf while hunting in that area. In 04 while hunting turkeys in the Black River area I saw a set running deer. While leaving in Wausau and fising the Rib River on the west side of town ther was sign of them all over the sand bars on the river. I geuss WI DNR is lucky they don't need alot of hunter success to manage the deer herd.
Ron told me the other day that a pack has moved into an old bear den at ShewHaven. 400 yards from my stand in the pines.....yippee.
I have hunted in the western part of the UP a couple of times and have heard wolves howling at night and in the first hour of day light. It is an awesome and yet intimidating sound. My uncle has seen wolves on his property in the UP and knows of atleast three packs in the area. It makes you a "little" jumpy walking to your stand in the morning and leaving your stand at night knowing they are out and about.
There is nothing good about wolves in your hunting area period. Beautiful creatures they are, but they will eat/kill everything in sight given time and numbers if not controlled. Only good wolf is a .... ....
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g56/huntit/unsorted112.jpg)
Well done,hunt it.
Not trying to turn this into a legislative post but....
This is an exact example why I think anyone should be able to carry a side arm while bow hunting.
In my state, Michigan, you can't unless you have a concealed weapon permit.
I could carry a handgun in the woods any other time of year..just not bow hunting..go figure.
Glad your Son is ok.
Actually there is a pack in Black River Falls area, the bear bluff pack, that they have been worried about because it has become to cozy with humans and there are plans by the Feds to trap them as I just read in "Wisconsin Outdoor News."
To be more accurate, the DNR has requested the USDA, Wildlife Services to trap them. I think they're sending them up to you Orion.
I do a lot of grouse hunting with my brittany's in the Nicolet National Forest in Oconto and Forest Counties. I always have a sidearm with me. I have encoutered them both grouse hunting and bowhunting. Nothing happened but in my mind why take the chance and not be prepared. I also carry one with me when I am bowhunting area's that I know a wolf pack is in. As it was stated you can look at the DNR website for their locations but I doubt they have them all tracked.
There are more laws to protect animals than there are to protect honest humans. I am all for conservation, but not at the expense of me or my family's safety. Most of the laws made to protect animals should be viewed as protecting the fat cats wallets. :readit:
I want my son to be able to hunt and fish like me. We are still the APEX PREDATOR. Other animals were put here for our use. We mess up when we try to control what God has put in place.
If I ever had a pack of wolves follow me I would set out to kill them all by whatever means necessary. I bet a hundred dollars to a donut those wolves were looking for a meal and not just "being curious".
I hope your son is safe hunting.
Doesn't surprise many of us that live in areas where the wolves have been present,what do you expect when the DNR handles the pups in their dens and gives them shots to protect them from disease etc,ha and gives pet like names to them, result: an OVERPROTECTED wild animal that has little or no fear of man.Things are going to messy unless immediate changes are implemented in the management of wolves.
if you live in wolf country and make calls mimicking the wolves prey you can pretty much expect to be checked out.just like cougars do here.you need to be prepared to kill if needed.dont wait for them to leave,make them leave by shooting them.you have the right to protect yourself from any threat be it a burglar or a wolf.any wolf i see checking me out is getting the air let out of him period.
Statistics say anything you want them to! It's all about the population and sample size you elect to compare. As stated above, if you live in wolf country you have a much greater probability of being attacked by a wolf. If we group all the sample populations together and normalize to all of us then you are right the odds are slim at best. That just doesn't apply to the guy being followed by a pack of wolves.
I've been attacked by wild dogs 4 times, trailed out by a pack of coyotes just last weekend, and shoot any canine that so much as snarls at me. The neighbor's dog bit my daughter ONCE in our yard! I love all animals and respect them as much or more than most. As soon as they disrespect me or my family, they get to find out who is really at the top of the food chain!
the anti's have us right where they want us,they know they cannot stop hunting in its entirity so they approached it in a different manner.they get the wolf reintroduced into areas of heavy human presence and game rich areas.the wolf population will explode then the game we hunt will be depleted down to a meager few of what it was,that in turn will inspire less and less people to hunt which is exactly what they have been trying to accomplish the entire time.i'll say this and i dont care one bit who i piss off...I SEE A WOLF IT DIES. :readit:
Larry,to me you speak like a printed book.LOL.
theres wolves in the eaglecaps felix.i am sure we will see some next september.
Thats crazy!! If your son can't carry a firearm in bow season,then he should get that bear spray or a can air horn just in case it happens again.Maybe it will scare them off.
you have the right to protect yourself from all percieved threats.excersize your right to bear arms.the so called laws that prohibit you from carrying a sidearm during bow season are in fact not even a law.challenge it in a court of law and you will prevail.happened here in oregon then washington shortly after that.your fish and game officials cannot make a law they only make up rules that are not a law at all.i am not against laws just getting sick of seeing peoples rights get trampled on at every whim by some government employee who thinks they have the last word.
I have seen wolves 3 years ago Est of the Yellowstone,they where chasing elk then.A herd of 15 cows took my trail and passed by at 10 yards very scared,never seen the bull and this is strange in September,the wolves were some 300 yards,maybe they already had what they were looking for.
I wonder if there was deer lure scent involved with this. It could be that these wolves may have learned that bowhunters can equal dead deer and gut piles. There was a large coyote where we used to hunt. One day I shot a large buck with my Super K, when we were dragging out the deer, the coyote met us in the field. We passed 30 yards, stopped and stared at each other, I told him "go ahead the gut pile is yours" and he trotted to our back trail and headed for the gut pile.
I do not think you would need to pack a side arm because of the wolves. You could shoot one with your bow that would pretty much get them off your back. Now if it was animals that actually have a history of attacking humans like cougars or grizzlies, I would feel better with a ten gauge pump shotgun. Wolf numbers need to be managed in the unnatural balance that occurs because of parks and agriculture, but they are not a man eating crazed preditor that we need to get all mystical about. They will certainly do a number on any local deer population, mostly just because they will chase the deer out of the area.
The game laws ARE laws, and require a trip to the courthouse to rectify any infractions. That being said, the right to keep and bear, permitted (yeesh! :rolleyes: ) through a concealed carry permit, trump the game laws.
I will not use the CCW permit to poach, but only for its intended use.
Killdeer
I had a pack of 11 come to my elk calls a few years back. I shot the 1st one but didn't recover it...kinda rushed the shot as I was prepared to climb a tree.
My buddy was rifle hunting for moose this fall and heard a snap behind him.....turned to see 2 wolves coming at him. He killed the 1st one...(a small white one)
They definitely are up in numbers here to the point that the elk won't call when stationary (only on the move) and all species run for the water when you jump them. Points to a wolf issue if you ask me!
oregons game law for carrying a firearm during archery season was not a law thats why it was overturned.this was done by one person who challenged its merit.a game law that has no merit other than some fish and game officials saying it should be a law is in my opinion stepping on my right to bear arms.my right to bear arms trumps any game law.imho that is. :archer2:
Michigan is a "Shall Issue" state....get a concealed carry permit, and carry always. I have for years. There are a heck of a lot worse things in the woods than wolves....2 legged animals scare me more....It is the rare moment when I'm not armed.
here ya go:
"[T]he people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and their own state, or the United States, or the purpose of killing game; and no law shall be passed for disarming the people or any of them, unless for crimes committed..."[30]
In commentary written by Justice Cummings in United States v. Emerson, the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit concluded in 2001 that:[31]
there are numerous instances of the phrase 'bear arms' being used to describe a civilian's carrying of arms. Early constitutional provisions or declarations of rights in at least some ten different states speak of the right of the 'people' [or 'citizen' or 'citizens'] "to bear arms in defense of themselves [or 'himself'] and the state,' or equivalent words, thus indisputably reflecting that under common usage 'bear arms' was in no sense restricted to bearing arms in military service. See Bliss v. Commonwealth, 13 Am. Dec. 251, 12 Ky. 90 (Ky. 1822).[32]
Similarly, in a released Senate report on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, Senator Orrin Hatch, chairman, U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, Subcommittee on the Constitution, states:
They argue that the Second Amendment's words "right of the people" mean "a right of the state" — apparently overlooking the impact of those same words when used in the First and Fourth Amendments. The "right of the people" to assemble or to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures is not contested as an individual guarantee. Still they ignore consistency and claim that the right to "bear arms" relates only to military uses. This not only violates a consistent constitutional reading of "right of the people" but also ignores that the second amendment protects a right to "keep" arms. "When our ancestors forged a land "conceived in liberty", they did so with musket and rifle. When they reacted to attempts to dissolve their free institutions, and established their identity as a free nation, they did so as a nation of armed freemen. When they sought to record forever a guarantee of their rights, they devoted one full amendment out of ten to nothing but the protection of their right to keep and bear arms against governmental interference. Under my chairmanship the Subcommittee on the Constitution will concern itself with a proper recognition of, and respect for, this right most of all.
I do most of my bowhunting in the public lands around the Willow Flowage in northern Wisconsin and anyone familiar with that area knows just how many wolves there are. I'm not anti-wolf, however I do spend alot of time with my three young daughters (7, 4 and 16mo.) scouting and hiking the area. The odds of a wolf attacking us? Maybe one in a million. The odds of any wolf actually getting close enough to them... my 10mm Glock 20 on my hip is my answer to that. The girls call it "dad's little gun". Hearing a wolf howl at dusk as your climbing down from your tree and a mile from the truck is an interesting feeling. On one hand you can't help but whisper "brother I know how you feel", and on the other hand you're wondering if you have any fresh undies back at camp!
Within the past couple of years, the Idaho pack has spread into eastern Oregon, and Washington. They spread quickly, and I feel they will eventually be found in most of the Western USA. It won't be necessary to introduce them by planting, because the packs in ID, Montana and Wyo are well established, the number of breeding pairs is multiplying, and they are looking for new territory and travel great distances in search of a mate and territory. They have no natural enemies, and the only control is hunting, where it is allowed.
The ban on using dogs to hunt Cougar and Bear in some states, has resulted in more encounters in populated areas, because they are loosing their fear of man. It is only a matter of time before it happens with Wolves, in the lower 48, given the fact that Wolves are responsible for the death of a jogger in Alaska, and a surveyor in Canada.
I recently read an article about elk moving into towns in the panhandle of ID., and the game dept. said, it was the result of wolf pressure on the herds.
Obviously, if you are a bowhunter and you have an animal down, and the Wolves beat you to it, there isn't much you can do, because they are under Federal Protection. But if you become the prey, you will need something stronger than pepper spray.
The RMEF (Feb. 2010) recently took isssue with the facts and figures being presented by the Defenders of Wildlife, and others, as proof that Wolves are good for elk herds, because Elk are expanding into new areas of the Rocky Mountains. In stead it looks as though Elk are being driven into areas they would not normally be found, and it may not be good for the Elk, or other species.
So, in my mind to say the Wolves are good for Elk herds, deer or other animals just can not be supported.
Obviously, Wolves are here and there are going to be a lot more of them in the comming years and it is important to get behind groups like RMEF, because they have the resources to represent sportsman, and that means us.
Someone took exception to Wolves killing livestock in Eastern OR and killed a Wolf with a collar. They quickly offered a reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the parties responsible. Unfortunately, the reimbursement for the loss of livestock, isn't very much and people are unhappy with the way the Feds are handling the situation. Regardless of the reason, killing them is not legal in most areas.
WOLF????? ......WHAT WOLF?????? :dunno:
Might not be a big deal at all. I know several guys who have had coyotes do the same thing. My brother had a pack of coyotes around 20 yards from him for an entire walk back to the truck one time. He shot like 7 arrows without touching one before he just decided to walk to the truck.
Not that coyotes and wolves are the same...but animals are just funny sometimes. Kinda spooky but not necessarily threatening.
In Northern MN, there are loads of them.
I was rifle hunting a couple seasons ago and witnessed a pack running a doe. To be honest, it was one of the most spectacularly wild things I've ever seen. I heard them first (this was broad daylight mind you- midafternoon), then a doe came racing by followed by a formation of wolves.
Of course, I was sitting in a tree stand at the time and holding my 30/.06, so I felt pretty safe. One of the "wing" wolves passed right under my stand.
I thought about taking a shot, and it's a good thing I didn't! Later that evening, a couple DNR guys came into our camp and asked if we'd seen any wolves? As it turned out, they were tracking this pack and had radio tracking equipment in their van.
I'm no expert, and I don't have supporting facts, but judging by the lack of Deer seen so far this season, I would have to say that the wolves must be having an impact. Normally, I would have seen many more does and yearlings by now. They just aren't there.
I'm not in favor of eradicating them altogether, but I don't have an issue with thinning the herd as it were.
QuoteOriginally posted by Zradix:
Not trying to turn this into a legislative post but....
This is an exact example why I think anyone should be able to carry a side arm while bow hunting.
In my state, Michigan, you can't unless you have a concealed weapon permit.
I could carry a handgun in the woods any other time of year..just not bow hunting..go figure.
Glad your Son is ok.
If that's the case, then can't you go get one?
That's what's wrong with legislators these days, absolutely Nobody has the right to tell you that you can't protect yourself....Nobody!
That is a God given, basic human right to protection and I'll be **** if any man is going to tell me I can't.
Sorry for the rant, but that issue always gets under my skin.
If it's possible Zradix, I'd say go get the permit and start carrying concealed, or open either way your protected.
QuoteOriginally posted by PAPA BEAR:
you have the right to protect yourself from all percieved threats.excersize your right to bear arms.the so called laws that prohibit you from carrying a sidearm during bow season are in fact not even a law.challenge it in a court of law and you will prevail.happened here in oregon then washington shortly after that.your fish and game officials cannot make a law they only make up rules that are not a law at all.i am not against laws just getting sick of seeing peoples rights get trampled on at every whim by some government employee who thinks they have the last word.
Agreed...100%....Preach On Brotha!! :clapper:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/39723578#39723578?from=en-us_msnhp>1=43001
Thought yall might like this
j-dog.......thats insane...those wolves are not afraid of cars or anything.this is what happens when animals lose fear of man,they will start stalking people like rabbits.lets face it folks,without our weapons humans are a sitting duck for large carnivores.we need to push back,we have the power to vote people out of office.we have the power to change any law in the land.all it takes is an effort by a group of people.
Interesting video. I wish the quality were better. Those looked more like wild dogs to me than wolves.
definately not wild domestic dogs.wolves all the way.
QuoteOriginally posted by jhg:
Building the mythology one brick at a time
This reminds me of the fear around killer bees.
Something to be aware of and watch out for certainly.
But the sky is not falling and the world is not flat. Wolves are what they are. But you have a better chance of getting hit by lightening than being attacked by them. Mtn lions, moose. wild dogs, falling through the ice. These will get you before a wolf ever does.
I agree that a season on them is becoming necessary. But I don't plan on wearing a bite proof ballistic vest any time soon.
Things change. Change with it or grind your teeth into powder stressing about what you can't change back. Thats life. Bend with it or break.
I'm not directing this at anyone but at the idea we need to fear wolves or hate them. Understand them and act accordingly, yes, Be smart in the woods, yes. Take management into our own hands? No. Ignore the laws that manage game for all of us to enjoy? No.
This issue will work itself out within the rules we all live within. We are, after all, a nation of laws.
Joshua, aware, but not buying into the fear/hatred.
Oh? Go get a house in central Idaho and live in it. Go afield and try to hunt elk there. Then tell me if you are comfortable with letting your child outside to play.
Its a serious problem brought upon us by a special interest group that the majority of its members don't even live in the country---let alone go out in it. We are a country run by the minority. I see a wolf in the wild, and its the 3 "S" rule for me.
Edited to add that I'm a native Idahoan displaced to Virginia.
QuoteOriginally posted by PAPA BEAR:
j-dog.......thats insane...those wolves are not afraid of cars or anything.this is what happens when animals lose fear of man,they will start stalking people like rabbits.lets face it folks,without our weapons humans are a sitting duck for large carnivores.we need to push back,we have the power to vote people out of office.we have the power to change any law in the land.all it takes is an effort by a group of people.
Humans are awfully easy to catch. Without weapons, we are easier to kill and eat than rabbits.
It's a non-issue AFA I'm concerned. I open carry, and will deal with the fine or the warden when it becomes an issue.
I spend a lot of my work time dealing with invasive species for the fed. Now they put one into the environment ( Canadian Grey Wolves ) and call it good? They violated their own rules and laws.
Lots of laws are overturned by courts every year. Just because a law exists doesn't mean you have to choose to obey it. You just have to be willing to fight the law in court to prove your right or the law is unconstitutional. You just better be prepared to pay the consequences if you choose to play that game and loose.
Semo have ou been to the Yukon??And I'm with Joshua!
I'd be creeped out if several wolves were following me. Especially if they were the larger Arctic wolf. They may not normally consider us food, but then again...
Cool to see them, not so cool to have a pack following you. :scared:
Hope you have plenty of arrows... :archer2:
todd
I live in the bush, In my town, we have wolves, bears and coyotes, and yes i go outside and my kid play outside. We do pass more than 40 days a year in the bushas a family and we will keep doing so with out killing wolves, or coyotes. I would kill a bear for food but not for funn!
I think that most of you guys don't even have to deal with wolves, never even seen a wild wolve, so your comments on controling them, or knowing about them is at best futil!
Amen Mr. Yukon! Besides this thread has nothing to do with traditional bowhunting other then it was a second hand bowhunter story.
Animal Planet is an "agenda driven" channel- you can guess what that agenda usually is.
Their contributors, sponsors in some cases, and the producers of the shows have a bent to their stories usually and I find it offensive enough that I choose not to spend much time there.
This economy is even hitting the wolves hard if they start hunting us. Human is a weird meat.
Besides, wolves are pack animals. Just dominate the Alpha and then you have a pack of wolves to do your hunting. Now THATS animal control. :biglaugh:
I think wolves would find me stringy, of high cholesterol, and with an Irish whiskey aftertaste.
Thought we weren't allowed to talk wolves because it ain't traditional, just ask Guru...
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=095225;p=1#000000
Good one Roger! They'd need peirogi and fresh ground horseradish to choke me down.
david yukon.....you're assuming i take it that we must be a bunch of idiots or misinformed buffoons that add to threads just for the hell of it.this thread started because a trad hunter was followed by wolves and was in fear of his safety.just because you have never had a problem with wolves does not mean it does'nt happen.a person does not have to live in a wolf den to know about wolves.i am glad you have never had a wolf encounter go bad and hope it stays that way.google wolf attacks on people and see for yourself.the encounters are getting more frequent.what about the special education teacher in alaska that was killed and eaten by a pack of wolves? what about the guy who was treed in his stand by 13 wolves?ya think they just wanted a pat on the head? :readit:
I follow the laws but I guess I'd have a hard time not carrying some type of gun with me for protection. I'd rather pay a fine and live. We don't have wolves here but we do have some bold coyotes that make me wonder sometimes. I've had them downwind from me at 30 yds and they just sat there yipping. Kinda had a primal feel to it. Glad your son made out ok.
QuoteOriginally posted by AustinCQC:
This economy is even hitting the wolves hard if they start hunting us. Human is a weird meat.
Besides, wolves are pack animals. Just dominate the Alpha and then you have a pack of wolves to do your hunting. Now THATS animal control. :biglaugh:
No thats bestiality. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
Ghost Rob, I can relate, had the same thing happen to me once here in Southern Lower Michigan. Area is near Grand Valley State Univ.
I have never hunted in an area with wolves, so I can only imagine the nervousness and perhaps fear that a pack of wolves at close proximity will evoke. However, I was shadowed and, I believe, stalked by a pack of wild dogs here in GA. That was pretty scary, and I was carrying a shotgun at the time. No, I don't think one should non-chalantly start shooting wolves, but if you are truly fearful for your safety, then shoot fast, shoot straight. If you get ticketed by DNR then take it all the way to a jury trial.
Really do nto have to worry with em as none here but I figure I wouldn't fear for myself even with them close. What I would fear for is my dog who if I am hunting he is there too.
A cop once taught me to say these words "I was in fear for my life" to the judge. No matter what I am going to protect mine, and then gladly turn myself in - and My Father a career Marine with much combat experience taught me "shoot first".
I have been stalked by Black Bears and followed in and outta stand locations on several occasions before or after sunset. Still only once thought I was in danger.
Bottom line after reading these pages is that they need control. I think if yall in wolf states put as much effort to the people that matter as yall have on this forum yall could get the laws changed. Not being sarcastic but look at the pages saying the same thing?
I have said before though it will take a child being injured or killed to get change.
Jason
QuoteOriginally posted by SEMO_HUNTER:
If it's possible Zradix, I'd say go get the permit and start carrying concealed, or open either way your protected.
Open carry is legal in Michigan.
However, doing so does cause problem with Police.
Whether it should cause problems is beside the point. It just plain does. I've read about it in the paper many times.
Anyway, the concealed permit cost quite a bit of money to get. Classes and the permit itself.
Why should I have to pay for this is also another whole story....
It should just be legal to open carry a sidearm while bowhunting.
I've talked with the authorities on this point and was told the reason for this is that people were using their handguns to kill deer during bow season. So they made it illegal to take one with you.....
UUmmmm... SSSOooo another redundant law?? I mean it wasn't legal to shoot pistols at em to begin with. Now the lawbreakers are going to liten to a new law???!!!
AAAAAaaa don't get me started..lol
:knothead:
i'll say this much,if i am hunting in an area infested with anything big enough to kill me and eat me you can bet the house on it that i'll be packin my 500 on my hip legal or not.i'll challenge it to the top if i have to.i cannot imagine what was going through this dudes mind knowing that he was being followed by a pack of wolves.i was stalked by a cougar once and chased for a little ways by a blackbear when i was a kid.not happening again period.
PAPA BEAR, I'm sorry if I made you feel or think that I was assuming yo were an idiot. But I never thought so, I don't know any of you guys and realy try hard to not make assumption on any thing! My apology to any one who felt "atacked" from my coments.
cheers
Here is a link to a Sports Illustrated article about the decline of hunting and consequences but has a story of a documented wolf pack kill of a human.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1148866/1/index.htm
no offense taken yukon...we are all brothers in the forest.
I was hunting in Upper Ontario in 1989 . Archery hunt for Bear in mid Sept . It was my first trip there . The guy I was with had hunted there for years and was used to seeing wolves comming in to check the baits we had out for Bear . We could not LEGALY shoot them then but we all carried HTM rubber blunts to keep them away from the baits when they showed up, AND THEY DID !!.
We took turns picking each other up at night on the road with one car .
One evening ( it was pitch black dark) I was waiting just off the road ,about 5 miles from the other guy I was hunting with ( three of us all together ) I had something stalking me comming up from my right and down wind of me . I could tell from the sounds and movement it was pretty big at least small deer size I guessed and could have been a bear ,I thought at the time.
Well I was scared enough to nock and arrow and turn in that direction . It was certainly trying to sneak up on me very slowly . I was readdy to shoot if I saw something threatening .
It closed to about 10 yards , thick cover and I could not actualy see it in the dark . At about this time I saw the headlights of the car comming to pick me up . I did not deter the comming of this thing at all . When my buddy approached and got to about 20 yards away he suddenly slammed on the brakes and came rushing out of the car with the high beams on and bagan to shout to me . " DID YOU SEE THAT WOLF CLOSE TO YOU ?" he was shouting . "Looked like it was comming for you!" I had not actually seen it but he had caught it in the head lights and saw it stalking me .
I was again down wind and he must have known I was not a deer or any thing else.
We talked about that for years I have no idea what would have happened if he had not come along then or in the next minute or two .
But since it was CAnada I did NOT have my handgun with me like I normaly do I will admit it scared me plenty and I did have a few more beers than usual that night back at camp .
NOw that was a little over 20 years ago I hate to think how much worse it may be with the wolf increase since then.
I grouse hunt with a friend who has a cabin near Black River Falls, WI. We always see plenty of wolf sign up that way.
Thats crazy, I wish I wouldn't of read this as I'm leaving for a hunt in Black River Falls later tonight..........
:scared:
Texas doesn't have wolves, but we do have wild dogs. Wolves are a bit more leery of humans than dogs though. I've scared wild dogs off with black cat fireworks before. Although it won't hurt them, they're loud and could scare 'em off.
In Texas, you're allowed to carry a folded blade knife under 5" in public. When hunting or fishing, you're allowed to carry whatever knife you are using that day to and from your trip. A big fat bowie knife or machete would work for about 4 wolves if you're really worried about gun laws. Read up on some Kali techniques. :)
Any 9mm will work for wolves, but if you're in wolf territory, you might be in bear territory too. So you might want to bump up to a .45 or .50 cal just in case. I know some guys that hunt in Canada and Alaska and never leave without a .50 cal. My girlfriend used to live in Alaska and her dad told me everybody he knew had a .44 Mag revolver or some other high power round in their vehicle glove box.
I'm not afraid of kanines. They only have one way hurting you, so you just have to stay away from that one part or make their snout go one way so you can attack. From experience, an unarmed grown man that faces a kanine will easily win if they keep their head and are smart about it. Two to One will be a dead even fight IMO. Three or more and you'll be kibbles 'n bits without a weapon.
I'm terrified of mountain lions and bears. There's just no way of winning without a gun.
I wish we could pack a little extra protection up here in Canada Eh.
I had a similar situation with coyotes in the early 2000s in central Va. We had off from school because of snow, so I was out roaming the woods. I had my .17 HMR, just in case I saw something to shoot, like a rabbit, squirrel or crow. Something spooked some deer, and they came running toward me. I thought it was weird that they ran towards me, since I thought I had jumped them up. I didn't think much about it.
A while later, I thought I saw deer running on either side of me, just flashes of grey and no sound what so ever. But they were really grey, more so than a winter deer, but I didnt put 2 and 2 together. After a few minutes I crossed some dog tracks, which I followed. The tracks circled where I was, about 30 yards from my tracks, then I could see where they turned off and when elsewhere.
I can't imagine coyotes would attack a person when theres plenty of game and the winter isnt so bad, but it is still a pretty creepy feeling.
Now that I have seen wolves at zoos and a big black one in the wild in Alaska, I can only guess how much of a difference it would have been to have wolves circling.
Wolves were running these woods long before a human ever hunted them with a bow, or grazed his cattle and sheep there.
Ranching in wolf country needs a pro active approach with smaller herds and flocks in pens and sheds - like the days of old.
Just because they acted like wolves - scenting, scouting, stalking, doesn't mean they intended to attack.
I think there are a lot more BAD people that I come in to contact with than BAD wolves.
I hunt, fish, camp climb and ski in wolf country and don't carry a firearm unless I'm hunting with it.
I value not being top predator and to be humbled in the mountains. Otherwise nature will become a controlled environment. And I'll shoot myself at that point.
I respect and admire the wolf as much the deer and elk I hunt. If you've ever had a northern bread dog (husky, malamute, etc) you'd revere the wolf too. They are highly intelligent and the "pack" is actually a family.
Would I defend myself or another if attacked? Absolutely, to the death.
Glock, don't leave home without it.
The more I read this thread the more convinced I am that you should carry a gun whenever in the woods. Unfortunately, the law in some areas won't allow it. I humbly disagree with some who think the average guy can take on a wolf or large dog successfully. I am a 2nd degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and I don't want anything to do with participating in a dog fight. As a kid, I was twice attacked by dogs. Both were German Shepherds, and they put me on the ground real quick. They might well do the same to an adult.
This is an old thread. There has been a confirmed attack in WI in the last years.
That young man was able to shoot at least one of the attacking animals but not kill it as far as they could find.
We have a pack of twelve wolves that in the last three years have all but decimated our deer population. Our land is just east of the Willow flowage in northern Wisconsin. Their den is about 300 yards north of our NW forty. They have about a two week routine in that they'll be in our area for about four or five days, then gone for a couple of weeks before they return. You know they're around because they'll light up howling about 15 minutes of last shooting light then go quiet at dark.
This past November I hunted nine days straight and the wolves howled seven of the nine. Lucky me.
One morning I was getting geared up in the shack and could hear two of them howling from inside the bathroom. One to the NW and one to the SE. I have a pistol but don't carry it. I'm not foolhardy, I just don't get freaked out by them. Anyways, I had a three forty walk to the morning stand and those two kept howling for a full fifty minutes of daylight. Never heard them howl in the morning like that. Gotta admit it was pretty cool.
What sucks is that there is a definite effect on the deer in that they become even more skittish, if that's possible.
I've also noticed a trend when it comes to deer behavior and it's made me adjust my hunting strategy. Usually I get as deep into the woods as possible and look for remote islands of higher ground in spruce swamps as I've seen more mature bucks in these places during daylight. Now however, there is very little sign in my usual spots and the more remote I get it becomes a veritable no mans land for deer. I see way more beds and activity close to the paved roads. I believe that the deer feel safer closer to the roads. Whereas in the past the main evening movement usually came from the north (swamps), this season we're all shaking our heads as the main movement comes from behind us to the south where the county highway is. Post season scouting confirmed the vast majority of beds were all within 100 yards of the road! Definitely food for thought.
To wrap this up, I wish that we could hunt them again while simultaneously enjoying knowing they're out there and hearing their howls. The population is growing faster than most people realize and unfortunately I don't allow my kids the same freedom to roam as I enjoyed as a young boy. I don't believe that wolves would actively "hunt" them but I'm not gonna let them be the "first" casualty. That "first" is inevitable.
At Shrew Haven in the U P we sometimes hear wolves at night and occasionally someone is lucky enough to catch a glimpse of one. To me wolves are a natural part of the wilderness and I like knowing that they are there.
We've had two harsh winters in a row in the U P and the deer herd is way down because of the winter kill. When the deer are down so is the wolf population. When the deer numbers are up so is the wolf population, that's Natures balance. The only thing that screws up that balance is man
Wolves are highly intelligent animals that have a family structure that you might say is not unlike ours. They have the propensity, though rare, to be dangerous to humans, but so do bears, cougars and other animals in the wild. I respect wolves and acknowledge their right to exist.
I hunt northern MN. Fairly regular, the wolves are expanding at an alarming rate. My neighbor just a few weeks ago while out ice fishing captured 3 wolves with his camera out on the lake,broad daylight, mind you.
I too respect the wolf as a integral part of nature, but man has upset natures balance by encroaching on every inch of wild land. I believe we need to harvest/manage wolf just like any other big game animal.
Here's an article about several attacks.
https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2013/11/29/wolf-attacks-on-humans-in-north-america/
QuoteOriginally posted by Mudd:
I heard on some program that there aren't any credible reports of wolf attacks on humans in the entire history of record keeping.
Having said that, I would worry that I could be the 1st if I found myself in your son's shoes.
I seriously doubt that remembering that good news wouldn't have meant very much to me had I been in his situation..lol
God bless,Mudd
That sounds like something you would hear on a pro-wolf natgeo show propagated by people that are in love with the idea of wolves, not the wolves themselves. The idea that they have never attacked a person is absurd. Mountain lion and bear attacks are very uncommon, but they do happen.
It has to be unnerving, to be shadowed by a wolf weighing 120# or more, much less a pack of wolves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_America
QuoteOriginally posted by Hud:
It has to be unnerving, to be shadowed by a wolf weighing 120# or more, much less a pack of wolves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_America
Interesting stuff. I had no idea there were that many attacks. I'm glad we don't have wolves here!!
I am from lodi, 20 miles from Madison, and my neighbor has a picture of a timber in his corn field, and my daughter who lives there for college nearly hit a couger with my truck last spring