I know this has been beaten to death.
I know any sharp head will kill if put in the right spot.
I know sharpening your broad head either of the 2 ways I'll be speaking about kills.
This is more of a food for thought post really.
I have come to realize this site has a GREAT wealth of information offered up by its members.
I have also noticed quite a bit of the info is repeated as gospel without any real thought on the subject.
I've been guilty of this too.
So here goes....
Special filed edge vs Hair-popping shaving sharp....
I've read and understand the Ashby reports.
I'm sure smooth edges are the way to go on buffalo with their "stringy" hide.
I'm thinking about deer.
I did a little test on this a while back. http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=087371;p=1#000000
The more I think about the shaving edge the more I doubt it is the BEST way to sharpen a head. I know it works..and works well.
My thoughts are this.. When we shoot a head through an animal we are using the cutting edges to slice.
When we check our heads for sharpness by shaving hair we are not using the blade as it will be used on the animal. The shaving test simulates a "scraping" motion rather than a slicing motion.
I know when I sharpen my head with an 8" double cut bastard flat file I do NOT get a shaving sharp edge.
I also know when I run my shaving sharp edge slicing ( pushing straight )over the edge of a piece of paper or rubber or meat with just the weight of a few inches of shaft pressing down it cuts the stuff a little.
However, when I use my filed edge it slices 2-4 times deeper.
It does take some more force to slide the blade over though.
That's the kicker....
There is a technique and a certain type of file needed to get this good cutting filed edge as I mentioned in the linked post above.
Not trying to start an argument.
Not saying a filed is the best.
I am searching for the best.
I know both ideas work.
Just food for thought.
Good luck in the woods Gangers!
that makes good sense, sir.
Ok John, I'll chime in. Ive been huntin with stick bows since 89. up until last year, I thought same as you. I think it's because I never could get a head scaple sharp. Last year I talked to a guy from Mississippi and he got me to rethinking what sharp is. Since then, Ive shot 6 deer and one 204lb boar hog. All with bows under 50lbs, but with edges that are unreal when talking sharp. None of these animals ran more than 60 yards and all but one ran only 30yds. I can only attribute this to the edge of the head, as Ive shot a bunch before with file shapened heads , with good hits , that ran alot farther before expireing. I actually heard 5 of the deer and the hog crash and die and I can't hear for nothing anymore. Just my thoughts, but they do come from real life stuff. Don
John I got to agree with you. I just bought a KME sharpening system. I can get my Stingers VERY sharp, they will pop hair off my arm but they have no "drag" across my fingernail at all. I get them as sharp as I can with the KME (great tool) and then touch them on VERY fine crock sticks just a few passes. They still pop hair but also have a little drag and grab to them. So I would say you have a good point.
"The shaving test simulates a "scraping" motion rather than a slicing motion....."
Not actually. The shaving test just tests to see the progress you are making while sharpening and tests to see how sharp the head is. It's not testing the scraping motion but it's testing the cutting edge to determine the sharpness of it. A sharp edge will shave hairs off of your skin, just like a razor will, if it's sharp. If it ain't sharp, it ain't gonna shave you.
Chef's use knives to cut meat. They don't use files to sharpen em.
:deadhorse: This ground has been plowed so much it won't even grow weeds anymore.
I believe the biggest problem, is that the greatest majority of people don't know what a really sharp edge is. It's something most can't do. There is a world of difference between a head that will hack thru a hair or two & one that will shave hair from your elbow to your wrist & you can't hardly feel it. Take a razor blade & carefully run your thumb down it. It doesn't feel sharp but, it surely is. A file sharpened edge will certainly get the job done. For most, it's probably the best.
The metal purity of the tool also is of huge importance.Lower grade metal that most stamped heads are made from have a higher grade of impurities therefore the cutting edge has lessor life. When the 440 stainless broad heads hit the market in last couple of years like Silver Flames, Bowhunters really got their first hands on what SHARP quality metal can be. The sharpest knives in the world are not made of the same metal most of you shoot as broad heads. i was fortunate to train for 6 months as butcher in a large meat dept. basically I sharpened knives for 5 of those months. I know serrated and I know razor sharp. IMO a buffing wheel sharpened 440 stainless broad head ,is without a doubt the sharpest broadhead out there now and past. I roll my eyes and grin when I read an old timer scarf at the sharpness of the new 440 heads and refer his readers back to how he can get his " stamped" head to scary sharpness. Flip Flop Gadgets, wheels or free hand ,it doesn't matter but what does matter is flipping that burr back and forth to microscopic flaking and your higher quality metals will do that. .......your lower grade metal are BETTER off serrated file sharpened because of their properties. So quality of metal is number 1 importance in determination of sharpness.
but both WILL shoot through 20" of deer tissue hide and
cartilage from a hunting weight arrow properly tuned........
one of the sharpest knives in the world is the Japaneese Single Bevel knives............OK that's another thread!
Good post I like and can use this help
QuoteOriginally posted by joebuck:
.....So quality of metal is number 1 importance in determination of sharpness.
That is a good point.
I've only compared Grizzlies, Zephyrs, and MagnusII,
broadheads in this fashion.
zradix, As you well know those are great choices for heads you use. I also use a single cut mill bastard file to sharpen my Grizzlys and Magnus. touched up with light leather stropping with compound. they quickly transform into scary serrated sharp. It's no telling how much game has been taken by a file sharpen head over the century. THEY work. Great thread and really like the way you laid it out....good hunting
Bolong made a good statement - I laughed when I read that.
But I like threads like this as they are very informative.
I use all kinds of methods to sharpen from paperwheels (my favorite = easy) to files and stones. Where I hunt I come home every evening so if I thought a head dulled I can pop in the shop hit it on the wheels and it is super shavin sharp for the next outing.
I know at hog killins we use knives made of junk pot metal, you buy them at the hardware store for 5 bucks. They get a file edge but man they come out SHARP with only a couple licks on the file.
One other question what edge holds up better in the quiver?? filed or smooth. Again I shoot my actual hunting heads in regular practice on a regular basis. I know what my hunting arrows will do as well as I can just hit the wheels again quickly and have them back SHARP.
J
Let's look at this from another angle. it take less energy to push a Razor Scary Sharp broad head through a water fiberous mass ( deer body) than a Serrated Sharp head. Example would be your common steak knives at home. You can basically slice that ribeye in one whack with a razor sharp knife but have to saw 2 to 3 passes with the serrated steak knife. With more and more bowhunters dropping in bow weight, Switching to a Razor Scary sharp edge should be considered if total penetration becomes an issue with their serrated edge.
QuoteOriginally posted by joebuck:
With more and more bowhunters dropping in bow weight, Switching to a Razor Scary sharp edge should be considered if total penetration becomes an issue with their serrated edge.
A well tuned arrow, file sharpened, stamped steel broadhead will penetrate just fine from a light bow. I shot my 46# Kanati last season and blew an arrow through my buck so fast I thought I'd missed. It was 22 yards and I was using a file sharpened Zwickey Delta on a Beman ICS Bowhunter. Zwickeys may not be high tech stainless steel, but they've killed every critter on the planet. And I can buy six of them for about the price of ONE of the new ones.
I check the for sharpness by sliding a rubber band (not stretched tight) along the blade. It's pretty similar to what I'm trying to cut (blood vessels) so it's a good test.
Nothing against these new broadheads, but for whitetails, a Zwickey or Wensel Woodsman will do the trick without breaking the bank.
Zradix
I really don't have anything to add here regarding your thread except that I think you have stated some good points, but I also agree with the idea that the properties of the steel play a big role.
Actually I wanted to comment on the fact that I very much like the quotes in your signature, some fine words spoken right there!
There is an absence of dissenting opinions here so I'll offer this and then back off and go away! :knothead:
First, logic is such a great tool, and logically, I can't argue with all the comments made in favor of file sharpened (which I assume to mean they're not smooth edged but have that raggedy edge to them?).
If slicing through a deer was the process by which archery-shot deer were killed, then this is a sound arguement.
I believe we're missing an important part here in that assumption. Broad heads kill by hemmorage. Bleeding is desireable and anythinjg that impedes clotting is also desireable.
Everything that science has taught me is that a clean cut clots slower. The more ragged tissue edges that exist in a tear/cut, the quicker it will clot and stop bleeding.
Given equal sharpness of 2 edges, one ragged and one polished. Polished blade cuts clot less, ragged cuts from serrated or rough edges, clot quicker.
Not opinion, but what has existed in medical and biology literature just shy of forever.
For your consideration... :)
Thanks!
Doc Nock,
I've heard this point before and of course it's true.
I'm not a proponent for sharpening either way.
I'm just looking for the BEST way whatever it is.
The way I'm sharpening isn't a normal serrated edge. It ends up looking like a very very fine hacksaw blade with the teeth pointing forward.
The size of the teeth is very important on flesh.
Too small seems dull...too big doesn't cut either.
I think the clotting issue is moot when considering where the cut is supposed to be on the deer...through the heart and or lungs.
You cut an artery with a scalpel or a bucksaw it's going to bleed till there isn't anymore blood or the heart stops.
But please operate on me with a finely edged scalpel.
QuoteOriginally posted by Doc Nock:
I believe we're missing an important part here in that assumption. Broad heads kill by hemmorage. Bleeding is desireable and anythinjg that impedes clotting is also desireable.
Everything that science has taught me is that a clean cut clots slower. The more ragged tissue edges that exist in a tear/cut, the quicker it will clot and stop bleeding.
I agree with this 100%. I believe a lot of folks try to rationalize that broadheads don't have to be razor sharp rather than spending time learning to how to sharpen. I'm not taking a shot at anyone because I used to be one of those folks myself. Bottom line IMO.......learn how to sharpen them razorsharp. It's something anyone can do and you will not regret it. You will only learn how much bigger the hole and blood trail will be with a razor sharp broadhead.
Fred Bear used a file and it works for me. My huntin pard can't get the edge so he uses a Lanskey. What ever works cause its respect for the animal that matters!
I like this thread. I am a shapening NUT with stuff. I can take a VERY dull kitchen knife and get it to "grab" your nail and cut some hair off. Sharp enough for our family use. I have had Magnus heads that dont "feel" that sharp but will shave hair ALL day long. One interesting thing I just came across was I was sharpening some simmons with my diamond stick like I do my knives. They would EASILY catch on your nail with a pull stroke but didn't seem to as well with a push stroke(the way the arrow is obviously flying) Any thoughts on this one? BILL
Being a chef and owning a quality set of knives (Wusthofs) I can add that all my sharpening is done with a carbide sharpener and finished on a DMT steel. That being said I just ordered a KME for my broadheads...PR also the knives we consider to be the best production knives available are Global's, made in Japan and they are stamped
QuoteOriginally posted by Zradix:
Doc Nock,
I think the clotting issue is mute when considering where the cut is supposed to be on the deer...through the heart and or lungs.
Excellent point. And again, NOT trying to open a can of worms cause I've seen near wars started over this topic... but "IF" we put all our shots through the boiler room and double-lunged all our critters, this conversation WOULD be totally moot.
Reality is that we DON'T. And as such, we need to be truly open-minded, challenge our own perceptions and prepare for the worst-case scenarios and then smile when they "go through like butter."
Good stuff and fun to banter differing views! :)
That's an ole shaving trick I'm glad you brought it up Bill. It is Harder to shave hair by pushing a head straight down your arm versus sliding across your arm. The degree of sharpness a few of us are talking about and can achieve will shave hair effortlessly straight down. It is hard for a serrated file sharpened head to do this UNLESS it has been polish stropped by compound or leather etc. That stropping last leg is the key to file sharpening.Your knowledgable ole timers know this well. A broad head is a tool. It uses cross direction to cut. Serrated edges needs cross direction to cut or saw. Good Match. Razor Scary sharp heads just need direction.
Bill,
The only thought (you posted while I was trying to organize my thoughts) :) is that in conference with KME Ron and then with Ed Ashby, I learned that the sharpener I used made my blades "scary sharp" but they came out very dull... too fine an edge bevel.
They'd get dull one day in my quiver! The product I used put a 19* bevel on the edge and that fine edge was very prone to being dulled quickly.
NOw using a harder bh and a 25* angle, my blades, once sharp, STAY sharp way longer and only take a quick touch-up to return to desired level!
I like that! I'm honorary chair and founder of "ICSS" (or I can't Sharpen Shxx)... so where I am now, I am happy and saw the results on 2 deer last year that were like they were hit with my 7mm w/ ballistic tip bullets. IN sharp- OUT sharp. Much better.
Ok..help an ole man off his soap box afore I break a hip! :knothead:
Just wanted to say I appreciate the types of responses here.
No "my way or the highway"
Lots of good and very reasonable thoughts here.
:thumbsup:
My experience is this. I shot a doe last year at 12 yards with a Magnus Snuffer sharpened on a file. I had to put another arrow in her as the first on did not exit and it was in the liver. Two weeks later I shot a doe that was standing in the same tracks as the first nearly. I used a 2 blade stinger that was razor sharp. Shot placement nearly identical. The arrow passed through like hot butter and she went down in sight and was recovered in 5 minutes. I say being razor sharp worked better in this instance. Put both arrows in the bread basket and I would not have seen a difference though. I only know how to sharpen the snuffer with a file though so that is how i will continue. I will just try to place it in a better location next time. I wish KME had a 3 blade system! I am in the "ICSS" club too. Should be a board member! I think it is best to do what works best for you though to be as ethical as possible. I am going to try to test both heads and techniques on hogs next week so hopefully if they cooperate I will have more feedback.
That's a good point Doc. I watched a knife cutting competition once. These guys had a super fine edge ground. They could cut a hanging jut 1.5" rope with one swipe. But as a usable edge over and over they were not.
Snag touches on a point that is so misunderstood IMO. Some argue Razor Scary sharp heads do not "hold" up that level of sharpness through an animal. Absolutely un true especially if the head is of higher quality steel. I have a video I need to dig up where I shot a knurly 220 # boar in the shield for a liver kill and then pull the head out of the body cavity and it pops hair all the way down my arm. head was a 440 stainless razor sharp polished double bevel. Now at a given point of length, a serrated teeth tool will cut longer than the polished edge but there is not a bow in the world that can drive a tool that far or mammal big enough to show it. But in theory it would happen.
Here is a different point. Two deer back my wife shot a deer that was angling away from her. The deer jumped ahead, the arrow hit the back right ham, skidded off the hip bone and angled forward through the deer and stopped in the front left shoulder and buried half way up the head into the scapula right next to the front edge. The bow was a Darton recurve 38 pounds at 26.5" draw with a tapered cedar shaft left wing with a right wing grizzly 125 broadhead, that was first filed, then hit with a diamond hone and then lightly serrated with a grizzly file corner. A one hundred yard blood trail. While following that blood trail I found a doe that was hit with a large three blade razor sharp carbon arrow right through the lungs that was lost by other hunters two weeks before. They claimed they had no blood trail. I found the arrow arrow near the doe, the broadhead was still shaving sharp and the doe had pieces of the carbon arrow still stuck in its mouth. From this I can easily decide three things. 1. I will never use a carbon shaft, period. 2. Mixing left to right wing does not make as much difference on deer as people may think. 3. The actual edge does not matter that much as long as it is keen and sharp when it hits the vitals. What I can assume from this is that large shaving sharp three blade lung hits do not guarantee easy to follow blood trails, that a straight flying arrow with a serrated broadhead will get good penetration and bleeding from a 420 grain arrow shot from a light bow, and that the results are similar to last 30 odd deer we have have taken, some with my single bevel Hills and some with Grizzly broadheads some were matching wings others were not, and some with zwickees, with nearly identical results on deer.
File sharpened? ... what grade/courseness file? What angle? How to know its not just a wire-edge rather than a rugged true-edge?
FWIW, I judge the sharpening technique on the exit side of the hole. If the broadhead maintains the edge and is still relatively sharp, then its a good technique. If it shaves hair going in, but is a dull butter-knife edge coming out, its a poor technique.
Over many years of experience, some bad, I no longer depend on drawn or filed edges unless stropped on leather and polishing compound to remove any 'false' edge.
My preferred edge is the convex edge (hamaguri-ba) found on Samurai swords. It is strong, durable, and holds the edge amazingly well.
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/ward.htm
I took a cow elk at 25 yds with a convex edge on a German Kinetics Silver Flame that was a pass through, and the edge would still shave hair when pulled out of the dirt.
Your wife 's deer had more tissue and vessels cut because of length of cut to produce byways of blood. basically she shot it length ways. by gosh it should bleed. On the other hand the basic double lung deer classic shot that is not a complete pass through is not a great bleeder. Especially out of a tree stand with an elevated entrance wound. This wound kills by collapsing the lung pressure at least and hemorrhaging some vessels if hit. Some lung hits bleed better than others. IMO the bh edge has little or nothing to do with those two recoveries.
I shot a 105# doe last year that jumped at my string noise, kept her head up, looked around for seconds. Walked around the tree ,stopped and stomped her foot. And then leaned over and fell dead with in 2 minutes from the time I shot her with a Razor polished single bevel stainless head angled through her liver and one lung. 5 yard recovery and that was no spine shot.
QuoteOriginally posted by joebuck:
Snag touches on a point that is so misunderstood IMO. Some argue Razor Scary sharp heads do not "hold" up that level of sharpness through an animal. Absolutely un true especially if the head is of higher quality steel. I have a video I need to dig up where I shot a knurly 220 # boar in the shield for a liver kill and then pull the head out of the body cavity and it pops hair all the way down my arm. head was a 440 stainless razor sharp polished double bevel. Now at a given point of length, a serrated teeth tool will cut longer than the polished edge but there is not a bow in the world that can drive a tool that far or mammal big enough to show it. But in theory it would happen.
I didn't mean that it wouldn't hold up going through the animal. I meant, and thought I had said, that a low angled edge is not as durable with use. In other words if you are shooting your broadheads into a target once in awhile it will need much more touch up than one that is 25 deg. They both should be resharpened. One will need more attention and will dull easier in your quiver.
Home made tru-angle file set and a home made tru-angle leather strop with buffing compound, and you can get those heads shaving scary sharpe in no time, if i can't shave hair,i won't use it.
Joey, bet that would not have happened with a snuffer. One thing about them I have found is the derr defintely know they have been shot. BILL
Bill, thats a great point and suprised no one has mentioned it yet. If you get cut while shaveing, you don't even notice it but the bleeding is hard to stop. If you cut yourself on a jagged tin can, it hurts like hell and you can't wait to get some pressure on it and the bleeding most time, will ease up fairly quick. I think game animals feel the same tramaua and are running scared, where as the super sharp razor hit just makes them jump a bit and bleed out quickly. Everyone has a story that would make a case for both sides of this discussion. I wish all of you good luck, and good hunting. For me, it's gonna be the wheel sharpend single bevel until I find something better. DB
Good point there Joebuck on metal type and hardness.
I've shot deer with both filed and polished/smooth "razoredge". I'm sorry but I haven't been able to tell any difference in blood trails or quickness of death. I don't know which type edge is "best" but it sure is nice to be able to whip out a 6 inch file from your pack and touch up a broadhead that just got muddy instead of bloody. I found that out the hard way during turkey season after I had dulled my arrows shooting at a 'yote. On the way back to the truck, guess what happened? Yup, you guessed it. A big ole tom just a gobbling his head off. If you had asked me that day which edge was "best", I know what I would have said.
Another thing I have noticed whicj=h is weird. If I am sharpening my simmons in a gatco jig with a diamond rod thye seem to get sharper if I go front to back on one and and back to front on the other side when I flip it over?? Told you guys I was a sharpening NUT. Also, angle is a whole different animal(pun intended). I used to take A LOT of metal off to use a LOW angle but I think now that a higher(even up to 25 degree) seems to be MORe durable and stay sharp longer. BILL
Sorry for all the typos. Quick on the trigger tonight. BILL
We have kicked this around a good bit but i would like to discuss " edge angle" and it's dynamics as it relates to durablility,sharpness and function.
Heres my beliefs...For the most part we are talking whitetails with what 18" to 24" of water based fibrous tissue, cartilage and possibly bone we have to shoot through broadside or slight angle.. The broadhead as a tool only has to cut that lenght, period then it's in the dirt.IMO ,it only has to be durable for 18". I like a Low angle edge from a proper tempered steel. I have never experienced any rollover after my blades passed through the animal. Now these are Double Bevel heads i'm talking about. Then when i started using Single Bevel, i assumed, "well certainly i will see rollover now since a single bevel has HALF the bevel support of a double bevel".....Didn't happen.. still now rollover....Reason being..i only assume the quality tempered metal edge is still harder and SHARPER not to be dull by an occasional rib bone. Again Metal properties in a BH are of huge importance
I shot Snuffers and WW forever. LOVE'em...Also i love the Truangle system with leather strop....BUT.....i added a tweak to this system. I took my Truangle block and lowered the angles of the wood base with my tablesaw and reattached the files to produce lowered angled edge 20-24... ...........SHAZAMMMMM!! made huge difference in penetration for me especially on hogs. As i type this ,i'm looking at a full body mount of "Rooty" a 340# boar i shot coast to coast through the shield with a 160 snuffer ground level..shot was 20 feet but that Head will cut... and it was Razor Sharp ( not Scary) nor serrated sharp ( stropped polished it) due to the fact i lowered it's shoulder edges.
Given the right temper, quality of metal, one can go LOWER on bevel edges and still have an extremely durable edge especially on a 440 Stainless head.
It's extremely hard or impossible to flip a burr to get it Razor Scary sharp on a 34 degree bevel from a lower quality metal head because of the crumble effect. For this reason i took my 3 blade heads from a 45 degree flat to a 24- 20
I haven't read all the posts but just want to say...What are we wanting to cut? Not so much hair or muscle, but vital organs that are soft and mushy and can move out of the way of a less sharp broadhead. I feel like that means a shaving sharp head is best.
Joey, I still have the article you wrote about sharpening in "longbows and recurves". MAN, that is a blast from the past huh. BILL
BUllfrog!!!!!!!! that was 15 years ago!.........time flys.......
Whew, man you ain't kidding. I have probably spent a grand since then just on sharpening stuff!! BILL
I'm no expert on this as I used broadheads for 40 plus years that were sharpened with a file or drag sharpener.They killed and I knew all the rationale for using that type of edge.The real reason I used them was,I didn't know how to get a polished,true razor sharp edge.That's a fact.
After all these years,and with the help of KME and a little diligence on my part,I have been using honed,polished edge,razor sharp broadheads-2 seasons now.
I have only taken two antelope with them so don't maybe have enough data to call this a "study".But the difference has been dramatic,so far.
For those who haven't hunted antelope,they run at twice the speed of deer,are very high strung and with the best hits,can easily cover 75-100 yds or more and usually do.
Last year's antelope went down in 40 yds.I had never had that happen before.that means he was on his feet for an estimated 1.5 seconds before being completely incapacitated.
This year's antelope was quartering away and though it looked good,the arrow went under the lungs and only hit liver.The antelope moved off 35 yds,laid it's head down and never raised it back up.She went to sleep.She reacted as if she didn't know she was hit.The group of antelope with her were on high alert before the shot and they didn't even get spooked from her reaction.
Again,I had never seen an antelope react like this.They usually run much farther after a clean miss.I had never seen any animal expire so quickly from a liver hit.Blood clotting is a very important factor as we don't always make perfect double lung hits.
Go back and read Batman's last post.I think he hit a very important point.When i cut myself on a wire edged shop knife,sharpened on a drag sharpener,it hurts like crazy but I can cut myself on a scalpel and don't realise it till I see blood.
The game we hunt are by nature,nervous and high strung.I believe that a finely honed razor edge combined with a pass through,may reduce the length of a blood trail by half or more.
In the case of these two antelope,distance traveled was way less than half what I normally see.I only ever liver shot one other antelope.It was with a file sharpened broadhead,also a quartering away hit.It traveled 250 yds and it took 30-45 minutes to expire,vs 35 yds on the most recent.
Still need to use these a lot more but I'm sure I won't go back.I did a post recently on exactly how I shapened these heads called "Sharpening Grizzlies and Other Stuff" It works on double bevels as well.I was sharpening challenge as well but not anymore.
Thanks Jim,
I was hoping you would share your experience with us. Here's another set of photos I recieved from a guy who shot this buck in Iowa last week. The broadhead is a honed and stropped Grizzly 190 (and I know how sharp it was because I sharpened it for him). The shot took out the top of both lungs but didn't hit the spine or the artery below it. The broadhead didn't penetrate the off side so there is no exit wound and all this blood came from the entrance wound which as you can see was still "plugged" with the arrow. The deer only went 15 yrds.
(http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo352/KMEsharp/TomsPics004.jpg)
(http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo352/KMEsharp/TomsPics006.jpg)
(http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo352/KMEsharp/TomsPics005.jpg)
Ron
JeeEEeezz
Put some red on the ground
Sharp, they were lucky enough to get that main artery. If not that deer would never have been found. I know it happened to me before. BILL
Bill As I posted on the other thread, I don't believe the main artery under the spine could have been hit in this case because the deer took 15 minutes to expire. In my experience (and I've hit that artery a few times over the years) whenever that artery is severed the animal never lives more than a few seconds. That spinal artery is probably the most leathal hit that can be made but it's also far too small a target to intentionally aim for. The other reason I don't think the artery was hit is that whenever the artery is cut, the majority of the bleeding is internal whereas this deer was obviously pumping it out through the entrance wound. Also, note the bright red frothy blood on the body. That looks an aweful lot like lung blood to me? A wierd one for sure, but we all know wierd things happen from time to time.
Ron
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jmb1221/deercirculatory-1.jpg)