Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: nc recurveman on September 29, 2010, 02:18:00 AM

Title: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: nc recurveman on September 29, 2010, 02:18:00 AM
My nephew was VERY upset when he ask, "So how much gun huntin we doin this year". I told him not a whole lot other then freezer stocking, in light of sunday bowhunting. I'm trying to make him understand that trad hunting is much more of a achievement then blasting away at anything within 200 yards. I remember the days when hunting succes was measured in body count and I am past that. Any advice as to how to get that across to a teen hunter?
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: broketooth on September 29, 2010, 05:25:00 AM
well this is what im attempting to do. stock the freezer with venison. if your nephew wants to see a body count, there is plenty other game to hunt , during regular gun seasonsquirrels, coons, rabbits, bear,fox,coyotes,bobcat.all can be done with tradgear.all the smaller game will give him great practise. last year all i took was a squirrel. this year im not eatin tag soup, and i plan on shootin anything else legal to take with my bow wether you can eat it or not.lots of game to hunt and the season is still young. good luck ruddy
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: bucksdown on September 29, 2010, 06:03:00 AM
brother you said a mouth full when you said teenager. my wife and i have been married about 4 years. she has a son that's now 14, when we first married he was really gung-ho about hunting, he has killed three bucks and two does in the past three years. i thought he was really hooked. well he's hooked alright, a cute little 14 year old doe, plus video war games. this day and time kids won't instant gradification. for most of us we just enjoy sitting in a stand or blind. it's my peacefull time to spend with GOD, giving him thanks for everything, no phones, no kids fighting, and no wife yapping and waving that honey do list. GOD knows i love them, but i'm like that old jerry clower "just shoot in here a mungust us, one of us has got to have some relief." you've showed him the ropes, and some day he to will look for that peacefull time. well it seems i've just rattled on, if you figure out your teen, let me know. my step-son has grown another two inches since i started typing this, and i find it hard to go buy him all new larger size gear just to gun hunt one week.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: ishoot4thrills on September 29, 2010, 06:15:00 AM
Let the boy gun hunt. He's young and if you want to keep his attention, let him kill some deer. Otherwise, he may grow weary because of the lack of the excitement of harvesting a deer. You said you remember the days of taking deer in numbers but you're past that. Well, maybe he isn't if he hasn't taken many deer. Maybe it's something he must experience himself at his age, just like most of us here did when we first started out deer hunting. With the distractions and competition teens have today from other things in life pulling them away from the outdoors, it's important to keep their attention even if it means letting them gun hunt. Otherwise, you may just lose him to other things. Besides, maybe trad hunting is just a tad too tough for a teen. It depends on the boy, I guess. I know it can be very frustrating for us adults so I know it must be the same for youngsters.

Just keep it fun, or you just might be going hunting by yourself.   ;)  Heck, I still drag out my shotgun loaded with slugs when gun season comes in and hunt deer with it. Does that mean I don't enjoy hunting with my recurve? NO! It's just something different and, yeah, it's also exciting, just in a different way. There's nothing wrong with letting a teen use a gun to kill a deer.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Mudd on September 29, 2010, 06:25:00 AM
I got absolutely "nuthin" for you on this one!!

Sorry!!

I still see myself as a miserable failure in this area but my situation was compounded by the fact the teenager I was trying to deal with was also of the female gender.

After her filling my freezer, me giving deer to anybody who would take it I finally told her she had to stop... or at least stop calling me.

I was tired of dragging out deer, cutting up deer, packaging deer. I think she was just killing them because she could, 7 of them in a 2 week time period.(all archery kills with her techno bow)

Like I said.. "I got zip, Nada, nothing!!" for you except prayer and lots of it.

God bless,Mudd

God bless,Mudd

God bless,Mudd
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: ckanous on September 29, 2010, 07:13:00 AM
I'm with Ishoot4thrills on this one. I think if he is pumped to go hunting is a positive thing even if its with a gun. Keeping them interested in it is the name of the game. Oh by the way I prefer taking my bow myself but on occasion I take the muzzleloader because it does have a different excitment. I would just try and let him take a couple deer with the gun and go out with your bows and take a deer, mix it up a little. Good luck.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: mscampbell75 on September 29, 2010, 07:56:00 AM
I agree!  Let him gun hunt.  As a teen, there are alot of distractions for a young man.  Some good some not so good.  If a gun will help his desire to be in the outdoors. Then so be it.  It's NOT a bad thing to hunt with a gun.  Just not as challanging and thats a personal preferance.  Bow hunting is not erveryones cup of tea. And thats ok. The important part is your time spent together, it doesn't matter what is in your hands.(gun/bow)  I'm sure latter in life he will remember who was with him during this time in his life rather that a deer he killed.

Good luck to you both.  Happy Hunting!!
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Kip on September 29, 2010, 08:44:00 AM
Great post I shoot4 thrills my thoughts exactly.It is his turn I bowhunt only now and my sons-in-laws hunt with a rifle and will show their kids in the future.Kip
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: bornagainbowhunter on September 29, 2010, 08:50:00 AM
I let my boys gun hunt.  They are too  young to hunt with a bow, they are 6 and 4.  I have got a fire started in that boy that would rival most anyone's desire to hunt.  Not with a bow, but they are still sittin' beside me in the blind any morning that is available.  It DON'T have to be trad or bows ro whatever, just quality time and a love for the outdoors.  The Bible tells us that God's work can be see and made evident just by the things we see around us in nature.  We all need to see that.

I take my wife and sons gun hunting whenever season is open and they want to go.  I don't even carry a gun or bow, its all about them.  If your nephew wants to hunt and you don't want to gun hunt, make it about him, or just take your bow.  Who knows maybe he will wnat to take his bow to follow in your steps.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Greyfox54 on September 29, 2010, 09:00:00 AM
Don't forget a lot of bowhunters started out as gun hunters . Whatever keeps him in the woods will keep him out of trouble . When I started bowhunting it was all about how many I could take , then how many bucks , then quality bucks , now I'm picky and try to take a few eating does and a good buck . We all evolve with our hunting and sometimes try to get beginners to start where we are , not where we started .
My son started bowhunting with a compound . Made me very uneasy but I encouraged him all the same , after two years and seeing the fun I have he switched to a longbow and has taken some nice deer and even pheasants on the wing . Just be glad he's hunting and spend some time with him . My thoughts , Fred
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: HATCHCHASER on September 29, 2010, 09:06:00 AM
Good advice here.  I'm a fly fisherman and not much on fishing with worms but my little boy sure likes it.  Whatever keeps them youngsters in the woods and is legal and fun is A OK.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: John Scifres on September 29, 2010, 09:13:00 AM
It bugs me a bit when we, as hunters, say we are past some aspect of hunting.  It is way too multidimensional to feel like we have somehow evolved because our priorities have changed.  The "Stages of a Hunter" BS that's taught as fact when it is nothing more than philosophy is to blame in a large way.  But to think that selective hunting is better than taking your limit, or bowhunting is more evolved than gunhunting is arrogant and proud.

Let the boy hunt.  Take him hunting.  Let him kill his limit as long as he is using the animal.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Bowwild on September 29, 2010, 10:02:00 AM
I agree very strongly with the posts that recommend encouraging the youngster to hunt by any legal means he finds interesting.

I've been taking my son hunting with me since he was 4 years old. He started squirrel hunting at 9 and deer hunting at 13. We lived in KS when he was 10-12 and when we lived there you had to be 14 to deer hunt - dumb, but changed now. He's 31 years old now and my best hunting buddy. He has always been on a little different rung on the hunter evolution ladder because I had a 20-year head start on him.

I won't shoot bucks that he considers nice ones, again because I've gone through that. He is shooting traditional with me this year but so far hasn't left the compound home. I'm sure he was surprised how excited I was to kill a doe with the recurve two Saturdays ago. He knows it doesn't matter at all to me how he hunts as long as he hunts and does so legally.

I'm always very careful not to push my motives and goals on my son. He sees enough of what and why I hunt (and other of life's lessons) to get the message in his own time. His son (my grandson)just turned 7 and he's next on "our" list. I have to be careful in a different way with the grandson because my son deserves the opportunity to be the "lead" hunter for his boy.

My best friend (other than my son and daughter)of 35 years has one son. His son, now in his mid-30's, almost never bowhunts.  He and his dad get along great but I think Dad is such a bowhunting nut (as am I so I'm not being critical)that his son was sort of repelled by it.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: RC on September 29, 2010, 10:55:00 AM
Let him hunt. As someone said if its fun he will keep at it. As he matures as an adult he will mature as a hunter.RC
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: kbetts on September 29, 2010, 11:49:00 AM
I'm with shoot4thrills.  Or buy him a compound.  The instant gratification comment was spot on.

Dear Mudd, my Dad told me very early that if you killed it, you clean it.  That didn't mean there wasn't plenty of help.......it was just of the spoken type.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on September 29, 2010, 12:10:00 PM
I say let him count bodies as you did until he finds out for himself the real meaning of hunting.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: SteveB on September 29, 2010, 02:13:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by John Scifres:
It bugs me a bit when we, as hunters, say we are past some aspect of hunting.  It is way too multidimensional to feel like we have somehow evolved because our priorities have changed.  The "Stages of a Hunter" BS that's taught as fact when it is nothing more than philosophy is to blame in a large way.  But to think that selective hunting is better than taking your limit, or bowhunting is more evolved than gunhunting is arrogant and proud.

Let the boy hunt.  Take him hunting.  Let him kill his limit as long as he is using the animal.
Great post John. Too many believe in this hunter evolution stuff.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: longbowman on September 29, 2010, 02:31:00 PM
First of all I don't believe you "train" sombody to be a bowhunter that uses traditional equipment but rather it's a process.  Encourage him to hunt, encourage him to explore different styles of hunting but lead by example.  I used to tell my son that I'd rather shoot a doe with my bow than a buck with a rifle.  As he progressed in his hunting he saw my enjoyment, and success, with my recirves and eventually that's how he wanted to do it.  On the other side of the coin I started another one out the same way and now he uses trail cameras, GPS, 4 wheelers and crossbows!  Be a good example and maybe he'll come around but if he doesn't I'm not sure that's a bad thing.  At least he's hunting and not doing drugs etc...
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Burnsie on September 29, 2010, 02:53:00 PM
It's certainly not a perfect model and I'm sure most can point out exceptions,  but I don't think the "hunter evolution" idea is all that far fetched.
I know I've went thru most of the phases over my 48 years.  When I was a teen and early twentys it was all about getting that nice buck (does were for wusses who couldn't do any better),  now its about time spent in the woods enjoying some peaceful time. Don't get me wrong, the excitement is still there when I have the chance at a deer,  but if it doesn't happen I could care less,  one more dead deer isn't going to make or break love for hunting.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: BUFF on September 29, 2010, 04:42:00 PM
I'm with the "Let him Kill um crowd
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: on September 29, 2010, 04:51:00 PM
It is very hard for some to be committed to the trad bow when there is a gun handy.  The mentality is different.  I have seen young folks that are accustomed to chasing game around with guns, think that they can do the same with bows, they just cannot slow themselves down enough to settle into the right frame of mind to hunt close and quiet.  Patience is more than a virtue, it is a skill.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: dave19113 on September 29, 2010, 05:45:00 PM
I hear what ppl are saying about let him get out there... I think we were all like that at one time or another.... The big thing is keep him interested.... WE as hunters have a responsibility to keep young hunters in the game.....

And lets face it... in most areas of the country we dont shoot enough doe's....There is a time when his views on this change... its not a bad thing....just a different view...

Have at it and pack that freezer....
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: smokin feathers on September 29, 2010, 06:05:00 PM
its a stage, let him hunt!! my daughter started killin deer at 4 years old, she has used rifle shotgun muzzle loader and bow. She thinks bow is the fun way to go, but she takes both gun and bow to the stand lots of times and if she cant get them close enough with the bow she will use the gun.

Ive killed deer with just about every gun and bow out there. I used 62 calibers and gauges, I used to kill 20 deer a year even after 20years  still enjoy using any legal weapon and support anybody who does so they will stay in the woods. Kids like action let them get have it!!
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Flesner on September 29, 2010, 06:14:00 PM
Tell the little snot that you'r not gonna let him use a bow this year! Tell him he HAS to gun hunt. Tell him only real hunters can bowhunt with traditional equipment and you forbid him from using it.

If he's a normal teen, buddy he will want it more than ever. Little punk will probably sneak around behind your back to do it!

  :biglaugh:
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: stickhead on September 29, 2010, 06:21:00 PM
Like you said you remember the old days let him have his.Just because you have found your peace you can't teach that to a kid he has to figure it out in his on time.Just be glad he wants to hunt.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: kill shot on September 29, 2010, 06:33:00 PM
I was very much like your nephew. He will grow out of that.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: SELFBOW19953 on September 29, 2010, 08:45:00 PM
I seem to remember something some pundit wrote years ago, about the phases a hunter goes through.  The first phase is to kill something-anything!! The second phase is to kill lots of whatever.  The next phase is to kill lots of specific things-bucks, drakes, toms, cock birds, etc.  Then, to become selective what you kill-mature bucks, toms with 12+ beards, drakes with bands, the lone blue goose in the flock of 50 white birds.  The next phase is how you kill them, increasing the level of difficulty-a recurve, longbow, selfbow, single shot, etc.  The final phase is to "count coupe"-passing on the shot at a trophy, comfortable in the knowledge that you could have made the shot if you chose to.  Few people progress through to the final phase. Most of us get stuck somewhere along the way.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Greyfox54 on September 29, 2010, 09:18:00 PM
John don't be bugged when someone says they have moved onto another level of hunting . I came from a poor family and killed every critter allowed by law for many years to help feed the family . When I got married in the early 70's we went through a gas crisis and construction jobs dried up so with raising 4 kids I took full advantage of every opertunity to take a deer . Now my kids are grown and me and the Goodwife can only eat so much venison that if I take 2-4 deer a year thats fine . I don't have to shoot every chance I get even though I hunt as much now if not more . I've been blessed to be able to go on a lot of out of state hunts and I can honestly say I put forth a lot of effort to bag game . The desire hasn't changed , if anything it's gotten stronger , but I am past the part of my hunting life where I have to kill everything . Every hunter matures whether he admits it or not . My thoughts , hope I'm not rubbing anyone the wrong way . Fred
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: gregg dudley on September 29, 2010, 10:06:00 PM
Not much to add except my agreement.  In my opinion, it is a huge mistake to force our personal restrictions on kids. I am all for teaching them about ethical behavior and the "right" way to do things, but I have seen a boatload of kids turned off by trophy restrictions and method ideology.  

The "kill" is much more important to the youth or novice hunter and that is a honest and natural fact that far too many people try to apologize for.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Ybuck on September 29, 2010, 10:08:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
Let the boy gun hunt. He's young and if you want to keep his attention, let him kill some deer. Otherwise, he may grow weary because of the lack of the excitement of harvesting a deer. You said you remember the days of taking deer in numbers but you're past that. Well, maybe he isn't if he hasn't taken many deer. Maybe it's something he must experience himself at his age, just like most of us here did when we first started out deer hunting. With the distractions and competition teens have today from other things in life pulling them away from the outdoors, it's important to keep their attention even if it means letting them gun hunt. Otherwise, you may just lose him to other things. Besides, maybe trad hunting is just a tad too tough for a teen. It depends on the boy, I guess. I know it can be very frustrating for us adults so I know it must be the same for youngsters.

Just keep it fun, or you just might be going hunting by yourself.    ;)   Heck, I still drag out my shotgun loaded with slugs when gun season comes in and hunt deer with it. Does that mean I don't enjoy hunting with my recurve? NO! It's just something different and, yeah, it's also exciting, just in a different way. There's nothing wrong with letting a teen use a gun to kill a deer.
right on
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Mack Marine on September 29, 2010, 10:48:00 PM
Let the young man learn to hunt an get a few memories under his belt with any legal weapon. You being the potter have got good clay. Just have to shape it after that. We've all had to go full circle in life to get to a recurve/longbow.

I took my son hunting in a back pack at 11 months old, 30 years ago to get him started. My grandson 8 years old just got his first buck with a crossbow. Well if you could see the smiles.... Take them hunting, shoot often, an enjoy the smiles from everyone at the supper table!!
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Longbow Jake on September 29, 2010, 11:05:00 PM
I don't know what to tell ya man I'm 17 now and when I was 15 I took a doe with my compound and a doe with my muzzleloader late in feb I think it was and felt it was to easy and felt it just wasent fair to the animal and I just wasent satisfied.So I got into traditional archery by myself no one pushin me or teachin me and I ate tag soup last year and couldnt be happier with my choice I do wish I coulda got somthin but thats how it goes somtimes.
I now hunt trad only and guns are for fun and protection now and thats with my dads buddies raggin me everytime I see'em to be a real man and hunt with a gun   :rolleyes:  and call me a punk kid for not listenin to to them but I dont let them get to me I know what makes me happy and thats that.
Ive put the turkey feathers from the turkey I got this spring and now thats going to make it all the more satisfying to me when I hopefully take my first trad deer with them this season   :archer: .
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: nc recurveman on September 29, 2010, 11:13:00 PM
I just know what it was like when no hunt was a success without blood. Now that I feel beyond that and take enjoyment from each trip in the woods. I guess what I'm saying is simply this, its easy to get disappointed when the only thing that matters is body count. Trust me the boy will hunt ALOT and he will kill a couple with the rifle as I let him do the shooting. I just dont know how to get the point across that the hunt is in the chase.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Tyler2045 on September 29, 2010, 11:26:00 PM
I dont know about hunter evolution, but I am 22, I hunt with a gun to put meat in the freezer, my wife and I eat alot of it. But I enjoy hunting with my trad bow, I say let him hunt he will make his own way and own choices and if you teach him well all will be good. But I have never worried about body count just body size for meat, and I will take a doe in a heart beat.             Tyler
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Brian Krebs on September 29, 2010, 11:30:00 PM
You can take a horse to water- and if he doesn't drink :    :deadhorse:
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Brian Krebs on September 29, 2010, 11:31:00 PM
OK that was a joke.   :bigsmyl:  


Where I live its one deer a year; and I really like venison in my freezer too: I use a bow.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Txnrog on September 30, 2010, 12:05:00 AM
Good posts on here. 'Instant gratification' when it comes to hunting is not a new thing for youngsters. Just think about it, you get a kid into fishing by going for panfish because it's high-action - you don't (typically) start em out flyfishing for pacific steelhead where you count # of fish per season, not per day.

Same with hunting - take the kid hunting. Let him shoot within reason - if you think he's indiscriminantly killing - set some size limits for him (or no does with fawns, etc). I got a ton of experience culling as a kid with a rifle shooting double digit animals every season and that got me excited and the 'buck fever' was still there, grew out of that, migrated to pistols, then compounds, and now to trad. I don't think it's a 'evolution' as mentioned above, but it is a matter of keeping the excitement - when we're young we get excited about anything, as we age, we start looking for something special (applies to women too!!)
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Bowhunter4life on September 30, 2010, 12:08:00 AM
It's all a passage, he is just at an earlier part of his passage than you are.  You were there once as we all were, probably different equipment for each of us.

Let him hunt with whatever he wants to, where legal... you can still carry your bow.  It may help him see "down the road" a bit quicker.  Plus you being there can point out the errors that will be made both in his hunting tactics and safety...  

No matter what you do you can't push him down the path... although you can lead him down it.  Show him by example, and be supportive along his journey.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Thumper Dunker on September 30, 2010, 12:44:00 AM
What John Scifres said. Take him hunting.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Roy Steele on September 30, 2010, 12:44:00 PM
Let him gun hunt.We all had to go through the numbers thing.As long as he's interested let him do his own thing.Don't try to put your way of thinking into his head.We all want our son to follow in our foot steps.Let him deside.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: eagle24 on September 30, 2010, 12:57:00 PM
I agree with John and others.  Let him hunt.  I don't care anything about shooting deer with a rifle any more, but if I take my 12 yr old nephew hunting and he can bust one with a rifle, I'm gonna be dragging and dressing.  The smile on his face is worth it though.
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: John Scifres on September 30, 2010, 02:35:00 PM
Fred,

Whether you realize it or not, to say that you have moved on to another level of hunting implies some progression.  As if we all "mature" through some predestined series of stages.  It also implies that the levels build on one another and that to "mature" through the kill-your-limit stage is an accomplishment.

John
Title: Re: when it was a numbers game.
Post by: Greyfox54 on September 30, 2010, 09:47:00 PM
Sorry to disagree with you John , but life is a long (hopefully) journey which doesn't always move forward . I don't think about things the same now as when I was a kid or even a young man . Have I matured ? , that's debateable . I don't think I'm climbing some hypothetical ladder to become the ultimate hunter . It's just that my goals have changed over the years as circumstances change .

Fred