Trad Gang

I am just curious as to how you all feel about these composite bows that seem to be more and more popular these days.  I am not sure what is going on; we all claim to be traditional enthusiasts but still have a desire to look for the latest and greatest in new age materials.  What ever happened to the old stick and string mentality?  Everytime I see a new high speed 'traditional bow' I want to go make an osage orange self bow, get some multifloral rose arrows, tie on some turkey feathers from a bird that I harvested, make an obsidian head and go into the woods.  Maybe its just me but as far as I am concerned you might as well grab a compound and take the sights off.

    :rolleyes:        :rolleyes:

Getting a definition of what is or isn't traditional is a hard thing to do these days. But in defense of the the modern ILF LB or Recurve there is nothing about them that aids the archer over a wood bow. You shoot them the same way, use the same technique, form. You are limited in the same way. And more than likely you probably shoot the same. For me there is not difference in shooting my BW PSR and my Morrison metal ILF with Ilf recurve limbs or shooting my Hill Halfbreed and my Sky ILf longbow. It's too the point that I feel comfortable shooting any of them and would hunt with either.
I had someone comment to me that my ILF rig wasn't traditional, I laughed becuase he was using a takedown recurve, so whats the difference between and ILF bushing vs a limb bolt.
The real issue is not the equipment we use, it's how well we use them. Don't forget that or we will lose the ability and the privilege to hunt. I bet the anti hunters would love for us to all return to true primitive gear. In this way, less animals killed, more wounded and then they win. I'm not against primitive gear but I know that most of us would be very handicapped. Maybe that's our future, but for right now I'm going to shoot the best with the equipment that works with me the best.

QuoteOriginally posted by LongStick64:
Getting a definition of what is or isn't traditional is a hard thing to do these days. But in defense of the the modern ILF LB or Recurve there is nothing about them that aids the archer over a wood bow. You shoot them the same way, use the same technique, form. You are limited in the same way. And more than likely you probably shoot the same. For me there is not difference in shooting my BW PSR and my Morrison metal ILF with Ilf recurve limbs or shooting my Hill Halfbreed and my Sky ILf longbow. It's too the point that I feel comfortable shooting any of them and would hunt with either.
I had someone comment to me that my ILF rig wasn't traditional, I laughed becuase he was using a takedown recurve, so whats the difference between and ILF bushing vs a limb bolt.
The real issue is not the equipment we use, it's how well we use them. Don't forget that or we will lose the ability and the privilege to hunt. I bet the anti hunters would love for us to all return to true primitive gear. In this way, less animals killed, more wounded and then they win. I'm not against primitive gear but I know that most of us would be very handicapped. Maybe that's our future, but for right now I'm going to shoot the best with the equipment that works with me the best.

I agree 100%

The way I look at it is that both are equally difficult to become efficent with.  If I am able to shoot a newer/faster longbow with less poundage compared to a self-bow with higher poundage I know that I will be more effective with the lighter poundage because I know I can handle the lighter poundage easier.  Yes I could just shoot a lighter slower bow (and i have some slow bows) but I have too much respect for the game I go after.

I'm an archer. I'm a bowhunter. I'm not a reenactor.

QuoteWhat ever happened to the old stick and string mentality?  

What year was that?

..I'm primitive ..I'll keep to wood and stone ! The rest is for you guys ! Just have fun with whatever you use..and teach our young !!!

I'm apparently not as "traditional" as you nor as talented as you sir.  Regardless, elitism does not appeal to me.

QuoteOriginally posted by rastaman:
I'm apparently not as "traditional" as you nor as talented as you sir.  Regardless, elitism does not appeal to me.

+1   :rolleyes:

QuoteOriginally posted by getstonedprimitivebowhunt:
Just have fun with whatever you use..and teach our young !!!

Best way to say it.  

What is with this all of a sudden.  everyone feeling that they need to attack what everyone else chooses to hunt with.  No one is telling you that you have to use what they do.  Grab a compound with the sights who cares, just enjoy how YOU hunt.

I used to shoot the compounds without sights, barebow class.  I have won tons of tournaments that way.  I dropped the wheels and went strictly 1pc longbow because I like it, not to be a part of some elite group.  I like this forum, not because I am better than wheel bow guys, but because I can learn from and meet other folks with simular interests.  

Wheel bows are where I started, honestly, that is where most started.  There are a few who have never shot a compound, but they are few.  I do not shoot or hunt with a compound, but if trad was banned, i would have wheels the next day and continue hunting.

I think it is wrong to draw the line in the sand as to what's acceptable to be called traditional. I shoot an A&H 3 piece longbow but plan to switch to my MOAB longbow. I have a self bow that I'll also shoot at some point. All of these bows are traditional. I personally don't care what you shoot, be it a self bow or a compound, just do what you enjoy most. The only time I think it matters is when competing at a shoot. The winners should be determined by ability not equipment.

I do have higher regard for the hunter who takes game with a self bow while ground hunting over the hunter taking game over bait, from a tree stand with a high tech bow.  Both methods are acceptable but I think one is more difficult.

One thing I do find interesting is how some people chase technology instead of putting in the effort required to become a more proficient hunter and archer.

I do not have a need to define who is 'traditional' and who is not or place value judgement upon them. The composite bow is well over a thousand years old. Besides, I didn't ride a mule to get into the woods so I guess whatever I do just ain't trad. oh well.

I am a funny fool, I even respect compound shooters.

Obsidian point????? Not a very "Traditional" material in Pennsylvania. Stick with flint and chert or the "Real" traditionalists will toss you out of there inner circle.  :knothead:

:deadhorse:     :deadhorse:    :deadhorse:    :deadhorse:    :deadhorse:    :deadhorse:    :deadhorse:

QuoteOriginally posted by whitetail_downer100:
I am just curious as to how you all feel about these composite bows that seem to be more and more popular these days.  I am not sure what is going on; we all claim to be traditional enthusiasts but still have a desire to look for the latest and greatest in new age materials.  What ever happened to the old stick and string mentality?  Everytime I see a new high speed 'traditional bow' I want to go make an osage orange self bow, get some multifloral rose arrows, tie on some turkey feathers from a bird that I harvested, make an obsidian head and go into the woods.  Maybe its just me but as far as I am concerned you might as well grab a compound and take the sights off.

OMG, here we go again!    :rolleyes:    :deadhorse:    :deadhorse:

I see the "more traditional than thou" people are still around.

Man, this form of posting sure gets old.

QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
I'm an archer. I'm a bowhunter. I'm not a reenactor.

Well said, Jason.

yes it does, hope it don't rain, someone will get water in their nose because it's up to high

I admit I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to build my own bow, points, arrows, string everything.

Sounds romantic as heck.

I just don't want to put in the time really.
I have other things in my life that I'd rather spend time doing.

composite bows are as old as the hills. Just like me LOL. A bow is a bow is a bow. As a bowyer here is how I see it. If I can build a bow that will shoot and arrow as hard at 45 lbs compared to another bow that uses 55 lbs to pull then I have enables many people to be able to hunt with a more efficeint hunting tool than they could before. A lot of people have problems handling a 55 to 80 lb bow and shooting it accurately. If they can get a bow that will do that at 45 lb then why should they have to pull the extra weight and possibly wound an animal simply because they were overbowed.

Your arguement of elitism is divisive without reason. I admire and have used and made primitive weapons. I do not look down on other trad shooters that do not. When it comes down to it Trad shooters and hunters have a stick , a string and an arrow. To me that is traditional regardless of the material the bow is made out of or the string , or the arrow. You still have to practice like crazy to become proficient with it. God Bless you all and Peace,, Steve

I don't mean offense to those who prefer longbows and selfbows and I definitely don't think more or less of those who do.  

For me, if I couldn't hunt with my recurves, I'd go back to compounds. The aesthetics of the recurve appeal to me over the other types of non-compounds.

Having spent 30 years working (now retired) in wildlife agencies, writing, recommending, and getting approved hunting rules, I am grateful to the compound masses for making bowhunting a signficant management tool. I believe, in the eastern half of the U.S. at least, our bow seasons would be far skinnier if the compound hadn't opened the door to a lot of folks.  By the way, I don't credit the compound with the move from 3-4% success rates of the 60's and early 70's to double digits these days.  I credit rapidly expanding whitetail deer herds for most of this.

I love shooting both. I'm very accurate with my ILF and even put python skins on it to try and trad it up. Lots of fun. But then I look at a heavily grained cocobolo riser with sculpted lines and hand checkering and different woods. Oh boy!  Have to shoot that one too.
Its good to have choices fellas!!!!! Live it up!

"Elitism" and elitist attitudes can be seen on both sides of this issue--it is not restricted to those who find going modern not to their liking. As soon as someone brings up this point, somebody jumps in with the "elitist" label.  It's like the lamestream media--if you don't genuinely agree on principle with the libs you areeither a racist, a homophobe, or both.

Well I have always liked traditional bows(especially laminated recurves and longbows). I never was a big fan of the word selfbow because to me a bow is a darn bow. I will just as soon take my ILF bow out to shoot as I would my many other traditional bows. It has no sights or stabilizer just plain traditional and is a heck of alot of fun to shoot. Funny because in Howard Hill and Fred Bear's day there were only bows and no grouping going on. It all comes down to todays way of thinking. Sorry if you want to think different but I shoot traditional bows in my view no matter what they are made of.

Longstick64 nailed it as far as I am concerned. The degree to which we choose to challenge ourselves is a freedom we all enjoy  and those who wish to impose a definition of what "traditiional" is or  should be has no more right to impose that on me than if I were to,  for example, make a case that pimitive bows are less lethal than composite bows and shouldn't be allowed as hunting weapons.  The most traditional thing is that we keep our freedom to choose.

Technology will always progress forward. Improve on the old. Do you still watch a B&W T.V. or better yet ride a horse to work?

QuoteOriginally posted by rastaman:
 Regardless, elitism does not appeal to me.

this!!!!

I certainly agree that elitism is unappealing. With my return to recurves I'm being very careful not to make any kind of deal of it all around my compound pals. It's just a bow and my choice.

Now, if they will be as considerate when I come in from a hunt after having turned down a shot because it was 5 yards too far for my current skill level. My best friend is advising to bring both recurve and compound to the opening day of IN's bow season (non-urban) next Friday. I'm leaving the compound at home.

Well gentlemen I got exactly what I wanted here didn't I... lots and lots of opinions.  As it turns out I agree with most of them.  Firstly, that bowhunting is bowhunting and no matter what medium we pursue it with the goal should be a clean quick kill.  If you are more proficient with an ILF bow then shoot it.  I have shot plenty of them and I think that they are amazing pieces of gear.  The second point was that we can all choose to push ourselves to whatever level we want in OUR sport; again I agree.  That said there was no intent of elitism in my post and I feel that several of you need to re-read the opening page of tradgang which explicitly states that we should not beat each other up in here.  I was only requesting opinions not badgery.  For those of you who respond respectfully I thank you for the others of you maybe you should reevaluate your particular stance on the brotherhood that is traditional bowhunting.

QuoteOriginally posted by whitetail_downer100:
I am just curious as to how you all feel about these composite bows that seem to be more and more popular these days.  I am not sure what is going on; we all claim to be traditional enthusiasts.........Maybe its just me but as far as I am concerned you might as well grab a compound and take the sights off.

Yeah, whatever you say! You come off with a remark like this? What kind of responses do you expect after that? And you say, "there was no intent of elitism"?!?

Mr. Giger, i apologize if i misinterpreted your remarks. i saw a 22 y.o. who had exactly 7 posts in 3 years on Tradgang (4 of them in the last week)  coming on here and posting an inflammatory (in my opinion) statement that was meant to divide.
Again, i apologize for my misinterpretation of your post, and thank you for your service to our great country!

Whitetaildowner,
I don't think you could have read anything disrespectful in my responses but...  As "thrills" pointed out above, your last sentence comparing all who shoot longbows and recurves with "new age" materials to compound shooters (albeit w/o sights), is what struck the flint.

I'm amazed there are several on this site that never laid the recurve or longbow down for any appreciable time since the compound came on strong in the mid-70's.

A lot of folks here are more like me.  We started with traditional in the 1960's, switched to the compound in the 70's and have just recently returned to traditional. We know very well how much different compounds and recurves/longbows are to tune, shoot, etc. We know how much more practice and physical exertion (with some risk to our older joints)is required to shoot the traditional gear.  I don't like my effort, and yes, in terms of effective range, my sacrifice, minimalized by suggesting there is no differnce.

I've just come in from hunting this morning (3rd Sat. of our season). I saw nothing from the stand (3 deer were near the stand I killed a deer from last Saturday though!). However, at this point in my bowhunting life I would rather have a day with no deer and my recurve than tag another with my compound.

like it or not, there is a division; hence the classification, "Traditional"...
we all weigh our thoughts on what that actually means in order to arrive at our personal conclusions...so i can see how the question comes up to some, and i also see how those who have been around it since electricity was invented could be so tired of it--->but this site doesn't say anywhere (that i've seen anyway)that it is only for those who are past the point of questioning...
i would assume that all of us at some point have had this valid question in our heads...seems to me that it's just his turn, and going off on him for asking it won't really help him understand anything...

QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
I'm an archer. I'm a bowhunter. I'm not a reenactor.

I agree with Jason.

I don't waste time worrying about what kind of bow someone else is using. That is their choice and it has nothing to do with my choices. If the projectile has feathers or vanes, it is archery. I would never exclude anyone from hunting with me because of their choice of equipment.

QuoteOriginally posted by JamesV:
..... If the projectile has feathers or vanes, it is archery. ......

James.. I know and understand what you are saying.
I am not arguing with your point..(archery is archery).

My beef lately has been shooting a feathered shaft is not necessarily archery IMO.

Shooting a crossbow takes skill but I don't consider it archery.
Unfortunately my state keeps making it easier to use a crossbow during "archery" season.

Just equates to more hunters in the woods taking the "easier" way and less deer on the public land I hunt.

My 2¢ worth a penny.

QuoteOriginally posted by don kauss:
.......i would assume that all of us at some point have had this valid question in our heads...seems to me that it's just his turn, and going off on him for asking it won't really help him understand anything...

You're partly right, Don. Him asking the question wasn't the problem. It was the comment in the last line of his first post and then denying that he wanted to start anything, with that kind of statement, that I have an issue with.

And, by the way, I don't own the type of bow that is the question of debate here. But I don't see anything "non-traditional" about them.

I'm going to agree with you doug.  When the grab a compound statement was made it came off as an I'm better than you statement.  Whether it was intended that way or not that was how it came across.  Perhaps we're not the ones who need to re-read the first statement.

If it doesn't have wheels I'm cool with it.

I agree with Longstick, who cares! It was them same when Fred Bear started using fiberglass in his bows and fiberglass and aluminum arrows. It is just new not untraditional. I shoot with quite a few guys that shoot Das and Trad Tech and guess what they shoot no better than me!! Even sights have been around on bows for a hundred years and people say they are not traditional. If it dont have wheels and they  shoot with fingers, that works for me! Shawn

I wonder what was said the first time a bow was backed with sinew?

My first recurve was a hi-tec composite 67½ Super Kodiak and I sure would like to have a Rose Oak Super Wildcat built the same way.

can't we just all get along.it is not are equiptment,it is are ethics and morals.i love everyone no matter what you hunt with,as long as you do it ethicaly.i just went primitive,but i am not an elitist.i don't think Jeff(getstonedprimitivebow hunt)is one either.everyone should just be nice to one another and use what ever bow they want to.the reason i stick with this site is because everyone is nice and helpful to one another.thats what makes this a great place to be.i love everyone,steve

I thought archery was just supposed to be fun, heck if I wanted to argue I would go inside and kick the Mrs.

you said it cal bow.i still love everyone,steve

I have respect for anyway anyone chooses to implement their enjoyment of traditional bowhunting. Truthfully bowhunting in general. I would also like to say I am sorry if any comments I posted offended anyone. I just wanted to make a point that everyone takes advantage of modern technology in one form or another. Lets face it we wouldnt be chating on this site if it wasnt for modern technology.

Good points from all.  Once again I appreciate all the feedback.  After reviewing my original post I can certainly see how it came off to some and am glad to have been 'lit up' for it; it makes me think before I finish a post now.  The final comment on the original post was not at all in-line with my intent and I apologize for allowing that sentence to get through the filter.  Just so you all know I started with a compound when I was fourteen and worked my way up to a level where I was qualifying for IBO nationals before I thought it was too easy and wanted to pursue something more difficult.  When I got my first recurve, a bear kodiak, I spend hours and hours practicing and was lucky enough to harvest a deer the very first time I took the bow in the woods.  My love for the sport has only progressed and with continued success I keep looking for the next stage of my archery journey.  I am on a path back towards a self bow, wooden arrows, and a hand made arrow head; my personal choice.  Again, I apologize for any hint of elitism.  I had no idea that this was such a hot topic.  If it weren't for the people I have met in traditional archery I might still be using a compound; furthermore, I would be far less proficient with my bow.  I thank you for all that took the time to respond.  Best of luck in the woods this fall.

Good luck to you sir, and i apologize again!   :wavey:

Logan,
Thanks for clearing that up. You're right, that is a hot topic on here. I, too, apologize for being so quick to jump to conclusions.

I see in your profile that you're a trapper. I trapped many furbearers as a teen in the late '70s and early '80s just when the fur market was at it's highest. Good timing on my part, I guess. Some of the fondest memories of my younger days were spent on the trapline.

I wish you well with your journey into primitive archery.   :thumbsup:

No big deal we've all said things that came across different than what we meant.  I too apologize for jumping the gun a bit.  

Good luck and well wishes.

I also didn't mean to affend with my post but just to express that to me the new ILF bows if shot traditional are no different from my other traditional bows and that to me grouping of these bow classes is just plain silly oh by the way welcome to traditional archery and good luck this year........