Trad Gang

Yesterday at the local archery shop, I put my "new to me" 56# 60" Schafer thru the crono with my 460gn 'test arrow' [ yes I realize it's a bit light at 8.5 gpp ]

I was blown away with the following #'s 227,228 and 231 fps        :eek:       !! Can these be correct numbers? I was shooting split finger with a very slick glove and concentrating on a smooth realese with each shot and drawing a full 28 1/2" [ So figure in the neighborhood of 57 1/2# ]... Do you think these #'s are possible?

This Schafer is a bit different, in the fact that it has a very thin black layer in the limb lams just under the veneers on the Back [ non belly side ] of the limbs and another on the belly side of the limb wedges however this one stops at the fadeouts.. None of my other schafers have ever had this laminate       :confused:              :coffee:

I would check another bow to get a better idea. I know  they are fast bows, but those numbers are up there with cam compounds. I read a test of a ton of different bows one of the  bowyers did last year. Only a very few made it to 200 fps. ,with mechanical release. They actually had a machine made to draw and release. All were shooting 10 grains per pound of weight arrows.

I had a 60lb that blew my mind.  Never shot thru a chrony but it seemed to shoot as hard as my 70 lb. widows.  bryan

Absolutely Fast AWESOME BOWS !!!!!

That is amazing.

I have a 1988 original Schafer at 62", 55# @ 29 and I have shot and tested my Easton Alum 2216's with 125gr. points/zwickey's and I have a chroned speed of 188fps. I truly am on;y pulling 28 inches so I figure that my poundage is more like 52#.

unlikely.

QuoteOriginally posted by beachbowhunter:
unlikely.

I agree, but I don't know if that is carbon or if it is that it WOULD make such a difference in the speed...I guess the shop owner could have his chrono checked and re-calibrated and then let yo give it a "go" again.

I dont have that layer in my Tip limbs.


Gene, you got some other gerat performers in your staple and I know you must have chrono'd them. If your chrono is working good then I would believe those numbers.  

That is F A S T !!

Thanks guys...this is a relatively "new crono" at the shop, as someone recently destroyed their old one with a devastating shot thru the works of the previous one... I will set mine up and confirm, but just wanted to know what others thought of these numbers and to see if anyone else was familiar with Schafer bows with this thin black strip in their limb laminate arrangement.

I know that the shop owner was "blown away' by those numbers also!

Gene   :wavey:      :coffee:

Sorry bud, but it didn't happen!  :)   I would check the chrony.  I wouldn't expect over 200 fps with those parameters.

BTW, I recently got this "little screamer" in trade with a side mount Great Plains adjustable quiver, in exchange for my "Origional 64"  [checkered grip] Schafer" and a spare set of origional 62" limbs....It was a "tuff trade' to make. But, I think as the quote in Dances With Wolves.... "Good Trade" is applicable... What do you guys think?

Gene

Those numbers you tossd out indicate 8 gpp of bow and maybe just a tad less, depending on what you bow is at your draw length.  I suggest you try it with somethig 10 gpp and compare.  

I think that with 8  it is possible those numbers are right.
ChuckC

Hap; Your numbers are probably correct, But your arrows are WAY overspined and the Original Silvertips were not Fastflite compatible. These bows are crazy fast and stable!! but if you really want to compare a "Tip against other Bows,shoot for Point on Distance.
      Enjoy your'Tip , been shooting them since 1982.

I would shoot through another chrono and compare.

my griffin shot 190 through the same chrono..three arrows same speed..650 gr..62@29 1/2.i know for a fact that my arrows are going faster than anything i have ever had before,if youre shooting 8gpp then its probably correct.

correction...i had a cheyenne that shot the same arrows at 197.

I was at a shoot a couple of years ago, where the compound boys were playing around with their machines in a speed contest.  they were all claiming the chrono was off at least -30 fps. A gentleman with a short BW and alluminum 2016s shot 3 arrows, his draw varied  from 27" to 28" and so did his arrow speed, 218, 216, and 222.  The numbers may be right that you are getting.

I have gotten numbers like that with my chrono shooting my new Schafer or old ACS. It is usually the lighting that does it. Just move the chrono to another spot or put in new batteries, nothing to get too excited about.

No way its that fast IMO. I had a Schafer-nice bows for sure, but not speed demons by any means.

I think our local police dept use your chrono Gene.

Folks, these numbers cannot be true...

If you tell us 58#  bow drawn at 28,5 and a medium speed is 228fps that means your KE= 52,65

your recurve (assuming it is a top of the line one) will have a store energy per pound of draw force at that draw lenght more or less 0,9 ft-lb/lb and a dynamic efficiency for 8 gpp less than 80%

so if you draw 58# your bow will store less than 58 X 0,9=52,2 #
and give to the arrow once you release less than 52,2 X 80%= 41,76 ft-lb of KE in front of the bow.

With a 460 gr arrow , to reach a KE=41,76 ft-lb you will need 203 fps.

My numbers in SE/PDF and dynamic efficiency are on the optimistic side...

Yeah what he said   :archer2:

sounds like you got a nice bow there. the chrono is off though im guessing.

I'm a Schafer lover but those numbers are off IMO.

L.E.
If your Schafer is that fast you want to be very careful and make sure the timing is the same from limb tip to limb tip....LOL -- sorry, I couldn't resist throwing a little compound humor atcha.

Soory, but no!! I had a Schafer that I drew to 29"s and shot 9gpp. and it was a 195 fps. bow which is quick but your numbers are impossible. I have a very fast RER that even drawn to 32"s and shooting 8.5gpp. can do only in the 220 range and this is the fastest bow I have ever owned. Shawn

Those numbers are waaaayyyy off.  I used to have a Schafer 62" takedown built by Dave for fast flight.  It was a nice bow and shot well but it was not the fastest of the various bows I have shot.  I would rank the Schafer as "above average" for speed but would not put it up against ACS or Black Swan bows.

I agree with Bjorn.  The chrony is off.

'Tips are great bows, fast yes...but no way it's that fast, even with those light arrows.

Chrony needs to "dialed in" I believe    :archer2:

My Bob Lee 63lbs@30 ,W/650g arrow blows through at 192fps.---And I thought that was smokin--With your very lite arrow and all that juice behind it it must sound like an M80 going off

I have my doubts, but there are a lot of variables that you would not have in an actual test with a mec release. That just seems to be too fast to be a realistic number. I could believe 205 possibly , and that would be a super fast bow, Maybe 210. I am having a tough time with the 225. I think the bow is fast but the chrono is a bit faster. God bless you all, Steve

For those numbers to be good the draw weight,or draw length, or arrow weight or all of these are not right.
If the above are correct check your lighting.

Pete

I'll put 'my' crony up in the AM , if it's not raining, and see what mine says... Probably see something different.. I'll post my findings.

Gene  :wavey:

Hi Gene,
  I've owned two Silvertips that were nowhere near that fast. Fly in the soup there somewhere.  :bigsmyl:

Gene,

I have two Schafers. Both are fast flight bows. The newest one has the thin black lamination you are talking about and the older one does not. The older one is a 62" bow and the newer one is a 60". They are both about the same poundage. I have never had either one chronographed so I have no idea how fast they are. They do seem a bit faster than some of my bows but not as fast as others.

My understanding is that lighting can affect a chronograph's ability to read. I think I would try it again and adjust the lighting.

Louis

Is it a Schafer with wheels?lol  :D

I had a play today with some lighter arrows at 8.3 GPP and at 61 @ 28 got 210 average over 5 shots.At 10 GPP 190 FPS and even with the lighter arrows bow is quiet and smooth.Its good to see development going on with the trad bows.
Cheers KIM

Its the lighting and the crono....a few years ago a few of us were at a shoot that had a crony set up, we all shot through and got 165-190 with different bows, then one of us shot a whopping 240 and blew us all away. After passing the arrow around we found that there was something about that arrow that the crony just liked and read about 50 fps faster....how mant HH longbows do you see that shoot 205 fps.

OK, the sun came out, and here are the #'s from my crony... The light arrow I used in previous test was between 197 and 204 fps and one weighing 564.3 [ just a tad over 10gpp] is consistant at 188-189 fps... these are very realistic numbers and more of what I expected before shooting at the local shop.

I guess lighting really does do strange things to a crono.  :wavey:

I have a set of limbs built last year that have the black lamination running full length under the back veneer. Also has the black lamination on the belly side next to the fadeout only, just as you describe.

My older set of limbs (04' I think) only has the black lam running full length on the belly side under the veneer.

I only assume it's a piece of carbon. Anyone know for sure??

still great numbers and performance. also a very stable and smooth shooter..


as far as the black lamination. all my schafers have it and i don't think it's carbon. the two windauer schafers i have now are from 04 and 06. i was led to believe it is a strip of black glass that aids in stability of the limb. i believe black widow limbs have the same lamination. not 100% sure but that's what i think it is.

Gene sounds good, still very quick with the 10gpp. I get right around 192-193 with my RER at 10gpp. drawn to just shy of 29"s! I will pass on the Robertson, but if ya get rid of a Tip let me know!! Thanks bud and good shooting!! Shawn

If they are that critical to lighting, then the arbitrary taking 30 fps off of every reading when they set them up in a nice shady spot at an archery shoot is just an anybodies guess number.  Schafers are really nice bows at any speed.

I knew of a Palmer that clocked just over 230 regularly. Carbon limbs, 65#, shot with very light arrows (was willing to get new limbs every year).

QuoteOriginally posted by Hookeye:
I knew of a Palmer that clocked just over 230 regularly. Carbon limbs, 65#, shot with very light arrows (was willing to get new limbs every year).

Shoot a hundred grain arrow through just about any bow and you'll get phenomenal speeds from it, at least for one shot!

All speed tests are relative. My chronograph is accurate as has been proven to be through many years of comparing speeds from rifles, pistols, wheelie bows, and trad bows. Any comparisons made from one bow to another must be made on an even scale with the exact same draw length, arrow weight per pound of draw weight, or grains per pound(gpp), string weight, etc. or the comparison results must be rendered useless. Many wheelie bow shooters compare their speeds based on IBO test parameters: 5 gpp @ 30" draw length. Try that test with your 70 pound trad bow and a 350 grain arrow in it and pulling it back 30" and you'll be surprised at how our "primitive" equipment can hang with the latest and greatest high tech wheelie bow. But who wants to subject their prized exotic wood trad bow to such punishment just to impress people? None I hope.

My point is, trad bows can be, and most are, a lot more efficient and faster than we realize. It's just that we don't choose to subject our beloved beauties to such torture by shooting ultra light arrows through them just for the sake of showing off. Most of us realize that speed is good but we like to use that speed efficiency to launch a heavier, more stable arrow and get more penetration on game than to have a flat line trajectory with a light arrow so we can shoot squirrels out to 50 yards or hit the 12 ring on that 3D target at 60. In actuality, wheelie bows aren't really that much faster than our trad bows, when comparing apples to apples.

Sorry for rambling on, but sometimes I just can't help myself!    :o          :rolleyes:

All mine will shoot 250 fps at least once!  :)

Big Paul shot his Palmer like that a lot, was willing to get new limbs as needed.

Watching him call and hit turkey targets in the head to 30 yards over and over and over again was pretty entertaining (not that his gear had to add to any of his personal traits- the dude was/is a hoot).

My BW shooting 2216's was a dog compared to his bow. I went to carbons but stayed around 480 grains and it helped me stay a little closer to his scores.

But 30 FPS difference even then........no way.

I tried his arrows from my bow and hit 221 FPS. The shock and noise, and lack of any support in buying replacement limbs made it a chrono test only type of deal for me.

On the 3D courses, yeah the speed game to extreme can pay off.

I blew through all of my deer but one, and that a straight down spine shot, which had the tip of the Snuffer sticking out the other side of the vert.

Good enough to be 190-200 FPS I reckon.

Having broken my wrist several times, I don't like the speed game and resultant shock, even for targets.