I dont get it! Why sell a broadhead that needs to be sharpened?
Ive bought Woodsmans and snuffers. the woodsmans fly AWESOME out of both of my setups.
Now I have bought new files, stones, oil etc to try and get them sharp enough to hunt with. I have now spent twice what the dang heads cost in materials to try and get them sharp enough to hunt with!
I have watched video after video showing me how to do it. I have sat here and gone along with the videos. And nothing! Never in my life have I had an issue with sharpening anything!
Why cant they come with an edge on them like MOST OTHER BROAD HEADS OUT THERE!!!!
I live in Woodstock.
We can't be more than twenty minutes apart.
If I can help you, call me at 678.300.2883 and I'll be glad to have you over for a sharpening class!
Ray
So someone doesn't get cut during the shipping and handling part.
I would rather put the edge on myself. It is part of the hunt for me.
If the company spends the time to put the final edge on it, it is going to add cost to the purchase price. I have tried quite a few different broadheads and have never yet been satified with their "out of the box sharpness"
There are people here who would finish them up for you, I think.
thanks guys,
Ray,
Good talking to you. Looking forward to my sharpening class :)
The price of the head is the deal on this one. A really sharp head is a lot more expensive than a rough beveled one. Take Ray up on his offer to teach you the way. It is generous and will help with your frustrations.
I have the same problem with Grizzlies--just can't seem to get it right. Woodsman heads I can get scary sharp-- I have a nice little 3-blded scar on my leg to prove it!
I've had the same problem in the past,I followed the tutorial here on Tradgang and now have success. My mistake was putting to much pressure on the last few strokes,just about the weight of the head itself is all the pressure you need.I still don't understand why they don't come ground to the proper bevel.I don't think you should have to file on each head for 15 mins. before you start to sharpen them.
I enjoy sharpening my own broadheads. Like said above, it's paty of the experience. Snuffers and Woodsmen are no problem for me. Still have not found the Grizzly switch yet......Randy
QuoteOriginally posted by MnFn:
If the company spends the time to put the final edge on it, it is going to add cost to the purchase price.
then I wouldnt have to spend 50 dollars on files and oil and stones. I would gladly pay more for the heads if they were even close to sharp.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Hammond:
I live in Woodstock.
We can't be more than twenty minutes apart.
If I can help you, call me at 678.300.2883 and I'll be glad to have you over for a sharpening class!
Ray
Definitely take Ray up on his offer. while I can get blades very sharp Ray can do it in less than half the time it takes me...I know because he walked in after I was working on one for 15 minutes and 15 minutes later he had the second one done and i wasn't quite finished with mine...
Kinda understand your point, Caleb, but what are you gonna do after you shoot them? You still need the sharpening tools. I've always found the Woodsmans very easy to sharpen. All I've needed is a 6" mill file and maybe a crock stick to smooth up the edge with and they will pop hair. Both tools are less $10 total.
If you need a hunt ready sharp Woodsman, try a VPA Terminator. Abowyers are another good choice.
That is a very good question....we need to have a factory sharpened 3 blade for traditional hunters....traditional doe's not mean a dull broadhead from factory....
I enjoy sharpening my own broadheads. Like the man said, it's part of the experience....part of the journey. We all struggle when we're learning the right way to do something the first time. Get your lesson from your buddy there in Georgia and you'll get more satisfaction out of doing it yourself. Wayne
You would still need to know how to sharpen them after you practice shooting them. I won't hunt with a broadhead unless I know it'll fly good. If you shoot it, you need to sharpen it. :readit:
Elk River Shooter, do you shoot one of Keiths bows?
QuoteOriginally posted by Barney:
You would still need to know how to sharpen them after you practice shooting them. I won't hunt with a broadhead unless I know it'll fly good. If you shoot it, you need to sharpen it.
other than 2 blade heads, which I have no problem sharpening.
I have only ever shot bh's with replaceable blades. this is all new to me.
Forgive if I sound gruff. I really have a hard time understanding the "why" of a factory hunting sharp glue on broadhead. :knothead:
As many above have said, sharpening broadheads is part of the journey. Sharpening is a learned skill, just like shooting the bow and practically everything else we do. If you haven't made it to that part of the road yet, use a head that comes sharp; there are plenty of them. But don't deny yourself the satisfaction of learning the skill and putting it to use. It really isn't difficult to do. :deadhorse:
Always shoot em first anyway - so i sharpen anyway - I DO like a sharp outta the pack head so I agree with you. It is just easier to take em back to shaving when they come close to it outta the pack. backerds I guess but then I like grizzlies as well.
J
May have been said already but. . . Unless you plan on shooting it once then throwing it away. . you STILL need to learn to sharpen it even if it does come sharp.
ChuckC
Barney is right. You will still need the tools to keep them sharp
QuoteOriginally posted by ChuckC:
May have been said already but. . . Unless you plan on shooting it once then throwing it away. . you STILL need to learn to sharpen it even if it does come sharp.
ChuckC
and again this is the problem. I can get any 2 blade head sharp like a razor. but i am now at 10 tries on these 3 blade heads and might as well not even started cause the are no more sharp than when they came out of the damn package
I can understand your frustration. I watched videos and read on how to sharpen the woodmen. Then I filed, put them to a stone, used a diamond hone, etc. etc. etc. I just couldn't get them sharp. I took them to a friend's shop and he hit them a few licks with a file and they were scary sharp. There is definitely a skill to it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Hogcoots:
I can understand your frustration. I watched videos and read on how to sharpen the woodmen. Then I filed, put them to a stone, used a diamond hone, etc. etc. etc. I just couldn't get them sharp. I took them to a friend's shop and he hit them a few licks with a file and they were scary sharp. There is definitely a skill to it.
This is what I will have to do I guess. I just cant get it. Its real frustratin
Now you're gett'n it. Just slow down and take your time. It will come to you.
Both are easy to sharpen with a file and a leather strope, Ray will teach you well! Shawn
It took me awhile also. I think the most important thing I learned was after you re do the bevel, don't push real hard.
Sharp is cool, when you can do it, it is even MORE cool.
Ray offering to help the way he did, is TRUE TRADITIONAL ARCHERY!!!!!!!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :archer2: :archer2: :archer2:
wensel woodsman broadheads are pretty much all i use.
without a doubt, 3 blade heads are by far much easier to sharpen than 2 blade or 4 blade heads.
just lay the head down facing forward on a mill bastard file's front end, push down, push forward.
the 3 blade angle's already figured out for ya - not so with a 2 blade, which is easier to screw up ... unless you have a KME sharpener! :thumbsup:
as far as broadheads not "sharp from the factory" - NEVER EVER expect a broadhead to be sharp.
and what trad bowhunter doesn't have a mill bastard file, and a fine sharpening stone or diamond file and piece of thick stropping leather??? or at least a carbide or ceramic shapener??? that's as important as a bow and arrow!!! at the very least, yer gonna hafta resharpen those broadheads somewhere down the line ... geez louise!!!
watch charlie lamb show ya how easy is it to get woodsman's hair shaving sharp ....
Wensel Woodsman Sharpening the Easy Way - by Charlie Lamb (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000096)
if you are "sharpening challenged" just use thunderheads or stingers. Pay your money, change your blades, kill your critters.
I think we owe it to the game we hunt to use the sharpest head hunting,some guys just need the option of a factory sharp head...if I CAN NOT SHAVE WITH BROADHEAD I WILL NOT USE IT HUNTING.....
Whatcha gonna do, put a new BH on everytime ya stick one in the dirt and dull it?
Ya better take Ray up on his offer.
Eric
if you can't razor sharpen yer own broadheads, you shouldn't be hunting. period.
come on guyz, this isn't rocket science! :banghead:
Wait, there are heads that come "hunting sharp" from the factory? I have never seen a broadhead that was hunting sharp right out of the package.
I belly much easy for to do. Be sure and chalk your file before, though---it helps oodles and gobs.
What Rob said!!
I have always bought glue ons, but bought my first elites last weekend. Got them out of the package and noticed they were a smaler head.
Kinda bummed......
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
if you can't razor sharpen yer own broadheads, you shouldn't be hunting. period.
come on guyz, this isn't rocket science! :banghead:
thanks rob. I guess im just an idiot then huh? If you actually read my posts you would see that ive been trying (all day) to get this right. Ive watched the charlie lamb video, ive watched the 3 rivers video! I CANT GET THEM SHARP!! I have no problem with getting any 2 blade razor sharp in minutes. But I guess since I cant sharpen a 3 blade I should quit hunting!?
Thanks for building my confidence Rob! That must be what the trad community is all about huh?!
QuoteOriginally posted by caleb7mm:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
if you can't razor sharpen yer own broadheads, you shouldn't be hunting. period.
come on guyz, this isn't rocket science! :banghead:
thanks rob. I guess im just an idiot then huh? If you actually read my posts you would see that ive been trying (all day) to get this right. Ive watched the charlie lamb video, ive watched the 3 rivers video! I CANT GET THEM SHARP!! I have no problem with getting any 2 blade razor sharp in minutes. But I guess since I cant sharpen a 3 blade I should quit hunting!?
Thanks for building my confidence Rob! That must be what the trad community is all about huh?! [/b]
i absolutely can't understand how ANYONE can't sharpen a woodsman to the point of shaving hair off yer arm. really.
caleb, i'm not saying YOU should give up hunting, but YOU need some one-on-one help that hopefully ray can supply.
i'll say it again - if you trad bowhunt, then you MUST know how to sharpen yer broadheads and have proper broadhead sharpening tools. this is as important - if not more basically important - than yer bow and arras.
so caleb, if ya can't sharpen a woodsman, at least you know how to sharpen a twin blade, as you've said. guess yer still good for trad bowhunting. :)
Right on caleb7mm some of us work our butts off durning the week 70 hrs some weeks our time is very limited trying to juggle family responsibles..the 6 hr block of time I GOT LEFT DURNING THE WEEK i want to spend it hunting in the woods ...some of us got small apartments or live in mobile homes and don't have space for any thing else...we just see the need for getting value for our bowhunting money...a touch up with a small stone is one thing ,machineing a proper bevel on a broadhead is another..that we spent our hard earned money we expect more...just a sharp head..for our money I KEEP 5 VERRY SHARP READY TO HUNT HEADS IN MY QUIVER and 3 dull heads to practice with..
QuoteOriginally posted by arky714:
Right on caleb7mm some of us work our butts off durning the week 70 hrs some weeks our time is very limited trying to juggle family responsibles..the 6 hr block of time I GOT LEFT DURNING THE WEEK i want to spend it hunting in the woods ...some of us got small apartments or live in mobile homes and don't have space for any thing else...we just see the need for getting value for our bowhunting money...a touch up with a small stone is one thing ,machineing a proper bevel on a broadhead is another..that we spent our hard earned money we expect more...just a sharp head..for our money I KEEP 5 VERRY SHARP READY TO HUNT HEADS IN MY QUIVER and 3 dull heads to practice with..
help me understand what you mean, dave.
no matter what broadhead you elect to hunt with, it needs to be sharp. 99% of all 2, 3 and 4 bladed broadheads come with machine angled blades. 99% of them need sharpening and that sharpening can be done with a 'v' steel sharpener, file, stone, diamond hone, etc.
even if a broadhead came razor sharp from the factory, yer gonna need to re-sharpen it, no???
what is your point, dave?
Rob.
Sharpening is not something we instinctively know. There are little tricks involved that make it or break it. I can get any two blade head to shave, but I have problems with Woodsmans as well.
Then we have the issue. . what is sharp ?
If it shaves hair off YOUR arm is that sharp ? What if it won't shave hair off MY arm ? My arm hair may be more wirey than yours, or whatever.
Pretty subjective thing.
You are not gonna get a three blade head to be as sharp as the proverbial razor. That just won't happen, but you should be able to get them sharp. Even sharp enough to cut your hair.
I think that one factor that is not seen while viewing the videos is the need to be VERY gentle with the strokes on the file and on the stone. You do not need to press hard at all once you have achieved the right grind. I personally believe more folks screw it up by pressing too hard than for any other reason. How do you see that in a video ?
Keep trying Caleb. Once you do it right, it all falls into place.
ChuckC
The three different packs of VPA Terminators I have did not come sharp enough to hunt. Not by a long shot. They are a fine head, and the bevels were perfectly even. They were not hard to sharpen. Some of the old Woodsmans and Snuffers have plagued me though!
QuoteOriginally posted by ChuckC:
Rob.
Sharpening is not something we instinctively know. There are little tricks involved that make it or break it. I can get any two blade head to shave, but I have problems with Woodsmans as well.
Then we have the issue. . what is sharp ?
If it shaves hair off YOUR arm is that sharp ? What if it won't shave hair off MY arm ? My arm hair may be more wirey than yours, or whatever.
Pretty subjective thing.
You are not gonna get a three blade head to be as sharp as the proverbial razor. That just won't happen, but you should be able to get them sharp. Even sharp enough to cut your hair.
I think that one factor that is not seen while viewing the videos is the need to be VERY gentle with the strokes on the file and on the stone. You do not need to press hard at all once you have achieved the right grind. I personally believe more folks screw it up by pressing too hard than for any other reason. How do you see that in a video ?
Keep trying Caleb. Once you do it right, it all falls into place.
ChuckC
i hear ya, chuck. let's discuss ....
twin blade sharpening by file or stone requires some acquired skill to set and keep the proper edge angle. using a 'v' steel or carbide does not. no real skills needed with a KME sharpening system, either.
three blade heads have a larger angle to the blades since they're sharpened 2 at a time as they lay on file or stone. there is no blade angle to be concerned about. initial sharpening REQUIRES pressure of the blade to the file. honing demands little or no blade pressure.
there are steel and carbides that are meant for three blade heads - just a few whisks on each blade and it's sharp enuf to effectively kill game.
sharpness is not subjective. a blade will either shave arm hair or not. shaving hair is not the final blade intent - severing critter arteries is where it's at. you'll know when a blade is ready to sever hide, flesh and arteries.
there's another broadhead factor to consider - the point. imho, woodsman points shouldn't be left needle pointed, they should be filed to a angled pyramid point for better puncturing and bone deflection.
the point of all this (pun intended) is that a hunter needs to depend on the sharpness of his/her blades: broadhead, knife, axe, etc. bows and arrows are just the delivery tools for what matters most: a deep penetrating broadhead into the vitals of a critter.
QuoteOriginally posted by Apex Predator:
The three different packs of VPA Terminators I have did not come sharp enough to hunt. Not by a long shot. They are a fine head, and the bevels were perfectly even. They were not hard to sharpen. Some of the old Woodsmans and Snuffers have plagued me though!
yes, there were/are problems at least with the woodsman blades - there was a time when they weren't straight, they were concave and impossible to sharpen correctly unless the concaveness was ground out by either a file (slow) or a belt sander (super fast). the latest batch of woodsman heads i received are dead straight and only required a few strokes on a file and hone to make them, ahem, 'razor sharp'.
Cough! Cough! Snuffers work
Caleb... sorry you are having so much trouble with the Woodsmans. You WILL have success and then will be as good at it as you are with a two blade.
As has been mentioned, the biggest stumbling block with 3 blade heads is pressure. Establish the angle by aggressive means (grinder, file, coarse emory cloth) and keep at that until you can see or feel a burr on the edge.
At this point (and not before) switch to more subtle abrasives.
Usually the edge you get as soon as the burr goes away will be your best. To fine tune it any more risks dulling the edge by rounding it (too much pressure= uneven pressure= rounding)and should be reserved for the time when you've gotten "the touch".
Try this... when you have the head as sharp as you think you can get it, reverse the direction of strokes for one or two passes. It seems to help.
I've also found that the Simmons Wheelie sharpener works great on three blade heads, giving them the very desirable "hollow grind".
I couldn't get either the Woodsman or the Snuffer as sharp as I like em to be or think they need to be..........so I picked up a Snuffer Tamer, now they are sharp as can be!
I really think sharp from one person is totally different than another......I would love to see what some think are scary sharp...
Hey Charlie, Rob. . what do you guys think of the wheelie or other sharpeners ? I have issues. They get the heads sharp, no doubt, and are easy, no doubt. (they also have some technique involved to doing it right), but I don't think they are as sharp as doing it the file / stone / strop way. Are they OK to use ?
We talk about this a bunch over the years. . . and for good reason. It is important. But again, it is not something that is instinctive and it is sometimes not easy to see a good end point.
We all have to remember too, that we are not sending a shaft slowly thru a critters chest. That dude is moving. Take that "not so dull" broadhead and move across your skin at 150 to 190 fps and see what happens.
Rob, we did the shaving thing with a friend.. Shaved his arm hair pretty easily, really struggled with mine. That is what I was trying to point out. Yes, it is subjective after all.
We are all in agreement. . we need to get them as sharp as we can. Let's help each other out to get to that point. Sharp heads mean better blood trails. Better blood trails mean better, quicker finds.
ChuckC
Caleb I know how you feel. For 6 days I tried to get my ww sharp and it was one failure after another. To tell the truth I felt like throwing those heads in the trash. I could have easily went back to my 2 blades but now it was a matter of honor to get these dang heads sharp. Somewhere along the way I found a way that worked for me. I believe it was a matter of feel more than anything else.
Ray has offered to lend a hand showing you how to sharpen them. Go see him and if you still cannot get a good egde after that well, you have done everything you can do.
I'm with Rob on this. They are hard to beat for so many reasons, including ease of sharpening.
Give me any Woodsman, old, shot into the dirt, you name it. Then give me any old file out of a tool box, and in a few minutes it's shaving hair. If it's in good condition, we're only talking about a few licks, and we're done. If it's been abused or had the grind ruined, it could take longer depending on the condition.
The method Rob describes is the most popular but didn't work for me. Take a look at Dale Karch's method on the video site. Search "3Rivers Woodsman Sharpening".
Pay attention to the light strokes at the end and the change in file angle.
Works like a charm.
I'm following this closely. I use Razorcaps a lot and they aren't the easiest to sharpen either. I'm gettin' them plenty sharp, but not hair poppin sharp. From what I'm hearing I need to ease up a little on the pressure.
QuoteOriginally posted by kbetts:
... From what I'm hearing I need to ease up a little on the pressure.
use whatever pressure it takes to raise a burr on the blade edges, then very light to almost no pressure for honing (removes the burr and leaves a 'razor edge').
Closed at the request of the topic starter.