Trad Gang

While we are killing time waiting for the main seasons to begin, I would like to hear opinions on states that only allow one buck/bull per season (or antler restrictions) on a statewide tag/license for management purposes? Before you begin typing this isn't meant to be a "What is a trophy to you" thread. Let us know the law in your state with your reply. I'm really interested to hear opinions on this rule in improving maturity in bucks in states that have recently adopted it.

Here in Kentucky since we have had this rule, I have seen dramatic improvements in the age structure and increased numbers of bucks.

Do you like it, hate it?

  :coffee:      :coffee:      :coffee:

Indiana has a one buck rule which started in 2003 I believe.  It seems I have seen more bucks, but it also seems we have a bigger population.

I do know it saved the life of a 2yr old 110" 8 point last year in early archery.(and actually a couple smaller 2yr olds)  Had I been able to kill a 2nd buck I would have taken the shot.

Do I like it?  Not really.  Do I hate it?  Not really.  :)

In Indiana we have a one buck rule also. While I think it is good for the gun season, I think it is not for the bow season. I really like the liberal limits in Tennessee's L zone.
I think the deer herd is as good in TN as it is up here north. In fact, the biggest buck I've ever seen was down there. And the herds are growing. I think, the reason is that seperate tags for each deer are sold. If it is regulated like that it encourages very tailored hunting whith likely less time afield for most hunters. I guess a lot more bowhunters would hunt early season, if they could kill an additional buck and would kill a few more does in the process,too, especially if those would not require extra tags.
Personally I don't care much for bucks: the meat is often not as good and the hide is more difficult to tan. So the first legal thing that steps out is usually in trouble.
It is still fun to see and kill a trophy, but my freezer is more important to me than antlers.

Iowa Kill's them all, even till late Jan. on the extended doe season. I've lived in Iowa for 11 years now and have seen a change in our mature antelered bucks ( for the worse ) Their is still great bucks in iowa but sadly the DNR is not helpng.

doug77

We have a one buck rule, if you draw a tag, and antlerless, if you draw the tag. For elk it is spike/cow otc or big bull, if you draw the tag. The deer herd is not the best, but the elk is good to great depending on the unit. Can't wait to see your one buck this year TJ.

One deer, one elk, period here is Washington.  Unless you draw a second deer permit.

Arizona is one buck, but we have bull and cow elk opportunities.  Although, you are only allowed one deer and one elk per year.

Indiana's statistics show an increased age of bucks since the OBR.  There are too many variables here for a direct attribution but it can't hurt I say.  I like it I guess.

Missour has a 4 pt rule (4 points on one side) in the Northern 3/4 of the state.  I don't hunt up there, but people have told me it has helped the age structure.  I live in the southern 1/4 where any buck is legal.  We can kill 3 bucks, 2 with bow, and one gun.  In addition the entire state has an unlimited supply of doe tags for archery, and most of the state has an unlimited supply for firearms too.  

I am not a big fan of the 4 pt rule, but I guess I will have to live with it.

In CT we get 2 antlerless tags and 2 either sex tags for the regular season (mid Sept through end of Dec), then 1 antlerless and 1 either sex for the January season (private land only).

In addition, there are unlimited replacement anterless tags (private land) and one earn-a-buck tag for every 3 either sex tag filled.  Again, that's for private land, but the check stations don't check and I have run across people getting the replacement tags for public land kills      

Age structure really isn't a concern at this point... just reducing the population.  The one buck rule is another management tool that has advantages over antler restriction IMO.

In Ohio it is one buck only, no matter how you choose to take it( bow or gun).  It has been that way for as long as I can remember.  I like the idea of only one buck per hunter, per license year.  Plus I get to take which ever buck I so choose.
When I first started deer hunting right around 20 years ago, you could only take one deer per year a buck or a doe.  Our population has exploded, you can now smack several doe's (depending in which zone you hunt) but still only one buck.  We have some really nice deer around, but I worry that the quest for the almighty antlers, might be letting the doe population get out of control.
 
The doe comment is a little off subject, but I just had to say it.

We have a 2 buck rule here in IL...any legal weapon. Meaning 2 with bow, one with bow and one with gun, or 2 with gun. The saving grace for our mature bucks is that counting all 3 seasons (2 shotgun, 1 muzzleloader weekend) an adult buck has only got to be REAL smart or REAL lucky 10 days out of the year.

I like the rule for us but I too hunt in KY and have found it has helped the mature buck numbers big time TJ. I would not have a problem with a one buck rule here in IL.

I am waiting for the day that Indiana will move the gun season out of November.  If that were to ever happen, Indian will quickly jump to the top of the list as one of the best big buck states in the U.S.  The area has excellent habitat, and much potential.  I just feel it is sad that more states still have not realized the value to both gun and bowhunters by moving the gun season out of November.  Hope it happens some day!

Indiana has the one buck rule as many have stated.  Although the age structure is changing slowly to the better and more "teenage" bucks are being allowed to reach maturity due to the one buck rule, I don't believe it is the only reason we have seen the age structure change.  One buck rule doesn't stop people from shooting bucks, its make people think about shooting a buck.  As stated in a previous post it saves some bucks lives, but at the sametime it also gets some killed because people dont want to see whats around the corner so to speak.  I think more two season hunters are letting those 3.5 y/o bucks walk in hopes of something bigger.  We all know that after 3.5 most bucks become very difficult to get close to.  Like mentioned there are too many variable involved.

On that note, Indiana is about to make some very drastic changes to its hunting season structure, which will help lessen the burdening herd and also create an older age class.  However, my fear is that Indiana is bound to be overrun with outfitters here in the next few years.  Very scary stuff.  So do I like it or hate it?  I like hunting big bucks and having more of them helps my chances, but I also HATE outfitters and what they do to the tax paying citizens of this state.  So its really a catch 22.

PA is a one buck state and always has been, a few years back they implemented antler restrictions. I have seen a noticable difference in the quality of bucks being harvested. Big Ed

Those who know me know I'm extremely biased. However, I LOVE the 1-buck rule and believe in it very strongly.  Whether you like big bucks or not a state going from 0-1 Booner per year to 50+ every year is quite a change since 1992. I killed a nice 8-point last year -- 2.5 year old class not quite PY.  two weeks later, on opening day of rifle season the largest live whitetail I've seen in KY walked by me at 70 yards and the next morning before church he was in my yard at 92 yards. I didn't mind passing him at all.  I'm a bowhunter/biologist (not the other way around to the chagrin of many of my past employers) and realize the benefits of having more naturally aged deer herd where 13% percent of the buck herd is 3.5 years or older.

From time to time bowhunters try to make the case that they should be able to kill an extra buck because they wouldn't kill enough extra bucks to matter on a statewide scale. That is correct. However, the perception of unfairness to rifle hunters would create such a controversy that bowhunters, bowhunting, and one buck rules would be done much harm.  A very popular, KY-resident country singer lobbied the KDFWR very heavily for an extra bow buck tag. He was turned down.

In the east, any bag that allows more than one buck during the season will never achieve the high quality age structure a 1-buck state will achieve.  Indiana for example has always been good place to hunt. I hunt IN every year 2-4 times. Last year I saw three bucks while in tree stands in IN that would exceed 150 PY; 35 yards, 65 yards, and 200+ yards. These were all on the same farm.  

A big reason why IL and OH have such reputations for large antlered deer is their restrictive buck harvest. They do it a different way.  Their seasons are structured in a way that reduces the numbers of days gun hunters are in the woods during the rut (late gun season or weekend-only gun seasons).

New York is trying AR in a few areas, the state has such a varied deer population I don't think it can work state wide. Right now you can get 2 bow/muzz.loader tags,one for either sex,one for antlerless,plus you regular tag.You then can apply for deer management permit for a doe,in some areas 2.Where I hunt I average seeing 3-4 deer a year so I guess I feel that's enough tags. Plus I feel feel that if spike or 3 point comes by, It should be my choice to kill it or pass on it, not some guy behind a desk. When I start seeing more deer like I used to, then I will give some thought to antler restrictions. If I can kill a deer, buck or doe, I'm a happy camper.

I hunt with my recurve and flintlock and like a chance to kill a buck with each. So a 2 buck rule is what I like. I don't like any antler restrictions. I feel like all hunters have a choice in what they want to shoot and that will determine what type herd they have. That way the majority will rule.

In wv in some counties you can kill 9 deer if u buy all the tags and in some 11 deer per person with all the tags.Thats all bow,gun,muzzleloader combined

ONe more note. A few years after passing the 1-buck rule a survey of KY hunters showed the overwhelming majority liked it. Here's the difference for me.  There are places in this country one can hunt and know for almost certainty they have no chance of seeing any buck older than 1.5 years (nice spike, forky, or maybe a 5-6 point).  Then there are places where you know old bucks have been taken, seen, etc.   Whether or not I want to wait for a chance at one of these older (read big-racked) deer or not, knowing it could happen adds tremendously to my hunt.  Maybe a little closer to home. If you use scouting cameras.  You have two cameras out which are 400 yards apart in different areas of the farm.  One has dozens of pictures of does and small bucks. The other has does, small bucks and a bruiser or two.  Which one will you hunt?  I know, wind, time of the year, access, etc. also enter the equation but you know the point I'm trying to make.  

Personally, while some of my fellow biologists would disagree with me, I like to see lots of deer (1-10) every time I hunt. But, the possibility that a 182 could come by adds a touch of excitement to my hunt that you can't imagine until you've been there.  My elderly neighbor killed a gross 182 (net 168) with a rifle the fall I was building my house (2006)-- he killed it about 400 yards from my house. I know he's dead.... but the conditions that produced him are as prevalent as ever.

I live in IL but hunt IN very reguraly (I'm only 5 miles from the state line). Since the one buck rule went in effectin IN I have seen alot more older class bucks. I'm a big supporter of it and wish IL would do the same in the future!

Jon,
    There's some proposals that look like there gonna happen for Indiana primarly shortening the gun season, moving it back a little, and adding a couple anterless only seasons with fire arms. If this goes through as it looks like it will I can see some DYNAMITE hunting coming!

Utah a one buck/bull rule as steadman stated. Archery deer is a draw now with few or no left over tags,it use to be a OTC tag. It will not be long before it is not a given to hunt deer with a bow in my state. Archery elk is the only tag you can get OTC in Utah anymore. Unless you draw limited entry elk tag harvesting other than a spike or cow is tough. Most of the anybull units are low elk numbers or lots of private property at least on my end of the state. Until last year when they opened up LE units to be spike units too I had to drive an hour or more to hunt a spike unit.
Antlerless tags are all draw,deer may take 2 yrs to 3yrs to draw and elk up to 5 yrs on a good unit. I am lucky enough to have 2 deer tags and 2 elk tags this year. My cow tag is a real low percentage tag,it was left over after the draw. So for a guy like me I would love to hunt a state that I could harvest 4+ deer in a year. As far as antler piont restrictions go I get mix thoughts. I think a person should be able to harvest what animal they like,as long as it's not bad to the herd. There is good and bad to it. In Utah I think the spike elk units/LE units did Utah elk herds good going from 19,000 in the late 80's to to around 70,000 now with a mass amount of 350+ bulls killed each year. The bad part is the deer herds have sufferd on some of those units pretty bad and it takes you years to draw a good tag. Years back Utah had deer units that were 3 piont on one antler or better. They ran it for a few years but went away from it. They had studied a 2x2 buck for I think 7 years and it never became bigger than a 2x2 so they closed it trying not to cause a recessive gene pool. I see it now with Utah dedicated hunter program(able to hunt all three season bow/muzzerloaders/rife) has turned everyone into a trophy hunting fools. Most promote antler restiction for deer. I see alot of real big 2x2's and 3x3's guys will not shoot because their not book bucks. Yet most of 4x4's you see are 18" to 22" wide bucks(3 year olds) but after that they don't last long. Last year I hunted a buck that was a 2x2 that was 28" wide deep forked and tall that would have went P/Y. It would have been a trophy of a life time for me. Now I like to harvest as many and as big of animal as I can but at what expence, Only being able to hunt every few years or at the expence at what is define as a legal animal. This will always be a hot topic and some tough debates so sorry for rambling on so much.

I Gods country here in Ga. You can kill two bucks. One has to have at least 4 points on one side the other can be anything.You also can kill 10 does. Along with that on "managed" hunts on WMA`s they`ll tag your deer for you and will allow you to kill even more bucks on your tag. Good news for me because I hunt several WMA`s around home here and can actually and possibly kill 8 bucks in a year with only one or all being over 4 on one side.I did once kill 6 bucks in a year with a stickbow all within 40 miles of the house.RC

Washington is one deer a year so nothing has changed for us since it is always OBR here.

QuoteOriginally posted by Horner:
In Ohio it is one buck only, no matter how you choose to take it( bow or gun).  It has been that way for as long as I can remember.  I like the idea of only one buck per hunter, per license year.  Plus I get to take which ever buck I so choose.
When I first started deer hunting right around 20 years ago, you could only take one deer per year a buck or a doe.  Our population has exploded, you can now smack several doe's (depending in which zone you hunt) but still only one buck.  We have some really nice deer around, but I worry that the quest for the almighty antlers, might be letting the doe population get out of control.
 
The doe comment is a little off subject, but I just had to say it.

I agree completely with everything you said.  We have had very large deer here for as long as I can remember and I also agree with your doe comment.

NJ is pretty liberal (not just politically) but also a bit confusing.

Different deer management areas have different rules but most are similar to the following:

Fall Bow - unlimited does, 1 buck.  Fall bow is statewide so you can hunt anywhere.

Permit bow - unlimited does, 1 buck if you get the buck tag.  Also, you have to choose the hunting zone (there are multiple zones in a management area) you plan to hunt.  You can get buck permits (and regular bow permits) in as many zones as you want but you can only get one buck permit for each zone.

Winter bow - same as fall bow.

The gun seasons are pretty similar but no need to go into that here.

So, a bit confusing.

Overall I think the state does a good job.  The bucks may not be Iowa monster sized bucks, but we have nothing to complain about.  The buck to doe ratio appears to be kind of high (to me) but I read online that our ration is pretty good.

All that leads me to the conclusion that I am on the fence about this issue.  I think we could probably choke down the number of bucks harvested for a few years just to even out the ratio.  Then again, maybe it is just my impression that the ration is too skewed towards does.

Up until a couple of years ago in all but about 4 of Alabama's 67 counties, regulations allowed two deer per day every day of the season.  Of the two per day only 1 could be a buck.  If you do the math for a 4 months of all weapons combined ... 4X30=120 days times 2 deer ... that would be ~240 legal deer.

A few years ago they changed the rule and still allow 2 deer a day for the entire seaon, but now they limit you to 3 bucks per year ... 1 of which has to have 4 points on one side 1 inch or longer.  There is no tagging method, but they have a place for you to write down on your license the information about your bucks.  If you get caught with a buck not referenced on your license, you get a ticket.  No call-ins ... no physical tag to put on the deer.    

Anybody else see the humor in this almost unenforceable rule???  Its still pretty much wide open ... there are so many deer processors in AL per county, most good ole boy's only have to risk riding a few miles to dump their small bucks off to be processed.  I hate to sound pessimistic about it, but I doubt a heavy percentage of hunters have changed 'their' hunting regs.

In my part of Va. it's 2 deer a day for 6 months(1st oct to 31 of march)I think it's 3 bucks per license.Our buck to doe ratio is way out of wack but I have seen improvements since this tag system has been in place.
One buck?
We would be back to a herd w/ way too many does again

Everywhere I hunt in Missouri is covered by the 4pt. (on one side) rule.. I've seen a DEFINITE increase in buck size/age structure.
What a little time can do...
I would support a ONE BUCK only per season rule no matter the weapon.. Just like Kansas.. I had never seen so many huge bucks until I started to bowhunt SE Kansas.. A whitetail paradise...!

Here in Missouri we will never get there until the bucks are protected and given the time to reach their potential...

There is a reason Illinois, Kansas and Iowa are Whitetail meccas... The bucks have the feed, age structure and TIME to reach maturity...
John III

In our county of Texas... two bucks.  One has to have 13" minimum spread, the other has to be a spike on at least one side.  My vote's for one buck... no antler restrictions to go along with it...

I think the lack of a rifle season and relatively short gun season in general have as much to do with the sizes here as anything. CRP ground is also a huge factor.  I'd personally rather see some type of antler restriction in IL than to to see us go to one buck. I think it would be more beneficial. Just my thoughts.

Indiana's one buck rule has improved the deer herd and hunting - both buck/doe ratio and buck age structure - in the area I hunt dramatically, in my opinion.  You gotta realize that "big antlers" don't happen on many deer unless the management is also right - to let them age.  This is win/win since the "trophy" guys get to hunt bigger bucks and the entire deer herd benefits from a more realistic age structure.

Has also lessened the "weekend warriors" carrying bows scouting for gun season (and screwing up the area) from what I've observed.  Seems like alot of those guys just wait 'till gun season since they can't shoot a little buck early then wait for gun season to "trophy hunt".

Ryan

I have lived in both Ohio and Indiana and hunted in Ohio, Indiana and Kentucky, all three are 1 buck states. I like the one buck rule because I think it promotes a more even buck to doe ratio by promoting taking more does. However I think Ohio has the best hunting not only because of the one buck rule but because they have very limited gun seasons in comparison to both IN & KY.

Nova Scotia is bucks only (one antler 3"+) with a draw for does from a zone system. Gun or bow - it's one deer only. One zone 2a is so overrun that you can shoot a doe there and then a buck in any other zone. 2a has a lot of landowner complaints with people shooting literally in your yard. War zone mentality.
This year will bring some changes, apparently. No news yet. Bigger zones being broken up and maybe a chance for a 2nd doe in heavily populated places. We'll see.
There's always a big buck around somewhere. And some get shot. Our little piece of heaven here is home to about 6-8 resident does. Lots of bucks sniffing around at that "magic" time. In 18 years on this property, there have been 5 BIG guys around every 3 years or so, but they had no problem from me.

Looks like the majority of the response is positive. Management is multifaceted and the next step I would like to see KY make is moving our gun season out of the middle of the rut, as a few have said and as some other states have done. Don't shorten or lengthen it just leave the deer alone during this time. I wouldn't even be opposed to closing the season during those few weeks to all hunting. I really think that would be a step in the right direction for all here.

As I've always said, management rules for wildlife of any kind don't need to be passed by politicians that have no idea what your part of the country needs as far as management.  Be pro-active and contact your neighbors and lay down a set of local guidelines (in accordance to state game laws of course) to follow that you can all live with. You'll be surprised that most are very open to new ideas for bettering the wildlife in your area (even the lead slingers).

In 1983 when I started hunting, if someone saw an antlered deer it was the talk of the town. If there is one positive to all the deer hunting on television these days it has to be the mindset of letting younger bucks go to mature. Back in the day a 1-1/2 year old four point didn't make it very long around here.

Good stuff!

Thanks guys.

in my area of louisiana throughout all of gun\\bow\\primitive weapons seasons i can take three antlered and three antlerless deer

Conditions vary so greatly across the country that it's like comparing apples and oranges. In the deep South, seasons are long and limits are liberal because of the thick woods and extensive cover for the deer. That kind of season in the corn belt would wipe out the herd.

I've hunted in a number of states, and the best buck hunting I've seen is where the rut does not happen during rifle season, whatever the bag limit.

the one buck rules only as good as how many does you take out.where i live you can take 9 and a buck.all the does are bonuses.i know alot of people who only kill one deer a year and its not a doe they kill.i drive a route thats probaly 25 mile square.and drive 100 miles i see 30 to 40 deer an evening and i might see a buck or two every other day or so.but when i see one its usually huge ive seen my biggest deer ever 3 times this year.some close to the 150 i hunt.they are also gonna alow crossbows during firearm season and allow anyone over 65 to hunt year round with one...lots of changes not all good....

Great point Steve, any biologist will tell you that keeping the doe numbers down is a good management practice. Here in KY as long as you buy the bonus antlerless tags we can take as many as you want to shoot in our zones. I run trail cameras throughout the season and I actually see more bucks that I do does. Along with lower deer numbers being good on the available food I think less does gives the bucks more territory to call their own which keeps them on your land.

It has already been said on here Ohio is one buck. I personally like it since I usually see at least a couple big mature bucks every year(even on public ground). I would guess the one buck rule is the reason.

Ohio is also making it more cost reasonable to shoot a doe to reduce the overall population(15 dollar tags). I am a huge fan of that idea since I want the meat before the antlers. I like the look of antlers on a big stud buck, but meat is first.

I think the 1 buck rule has helped the age structure and is allowing better genes to be disseminated throughout the herd. I don't believe it's a redistribution of the bucks or anything like that. I think that 10% of the hunters take 90% of the bucks so by limiting them to 1 buck per year it makes them work harder for a big buck  and allows the deer to mature

TJ,

I'm with you. I like the one buck only rule that we have here. It can be frustrating sometimes but I like the results it has brought to us in KY. Been deer hunting since the '70s and I have seen a dramatic increase in the number of deer I see compared to back then, especially bucks. I don't kill as many bucks as I did in the '80s and '90s because I pass on several compared to then and end up with maybe a doe or two and let my kids kill whatever is legal.

BTW, I saw your picture in the latest issue of our hunting guide, close to the front, posing with several does with some other dudes. Nice picture. That is you, isn't it?

You can kill 3 bucks total here now , used to be you could kill 5 bucks per year . Here they trade deer management for Dollars and the dollars are winning big time. If they could charge you per fish you caught they would .


I hunted OH for several years and they have it right , 1 buck no matter how you take him and you are done.

Jack

personally i think indiana would do good if they went too a earn a buck tag.you have to take a doe before you get a buck tag.if there so worried about taking so many does make people who will only kill bucks earn it.....just my too cents

Come on my fellow Michigander's, someone please try and explain ours. HELP!

QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
TJ,

I'm with you. I like the one buck only rule that we have here. It can be frustrating sometimes but I like the results it has brought to us in KY. Been deer hunting since the '70s and I have seen a dramatic increase in the number of deer I see compared to back then, especially bucks. I don't kill as many bucks as I did in the '80s and '90s because I pass on several compared to then and end up with maybe a doe or two and let my kids kill whatever is legal.

BTW, I saw your picture in the latest issue of our hunting guide, close to the front, posing with several does with some other dudes. Nice picture. That is you, isn't it?

Yeah Doug that is yours truly. I'll have to tell you the story behind that someday.

I knew it was you. Just shoot me a pm sometime with the story, or maybe I'll see ya around somewhere.

I love the one buck rule in Ohio. Our history of a great buck herd and the trophys it puts out every year say it all.

since s.c. did away with having to check in deer, i guess there isn't a limit any more much less an antler rule.  the book has a limit of 12 or so but there is no way for the dnr to keep track.  i'd love for the dnr to impliment an antler rule, but it will never happen as long as the insurance lobbyist run the dnr.  for every deer that gets hit by a car, it cost the insurance co. $5000 on average.  back in the 80/90's s.c. had around 1 million deer and the hunting was good with an average of 45 deer per sq. mile in my area.  not many big bucks but it wasn't anything to see 15-20 deer in an afternoon on my farm.  for the past 10+ years i've intensively managed my farm and have one, if not two, 160+ class bucks walking around.  someone mentioned the thick cover down south for the excessive bag limits.  truer words where never spoken.  mature bucks around here hang out in cover where visibility is measured in feet.  i'm constantly amazed when i watch hunting shows out west with huge bucks just walking around in waist high grass.  that would be a shooting gallery for some of us southern boys.

Two bucks in Delaware.  I guess we're lucky.  One is a hunters choice tag (no minimum and you could use it on a doe...) the other is a "quality" tag.  They decreased the size limit to 14" from 15" this year.  We don't have check stations any longer, but the fuzz is very good about checking out tags at the taxidermist.
Our deer herd is very healthy.  My buddy took a few pics of a deer that could challenge the state record for archery.  He's freakin' out cause even after he showed the landowner the pics he was told "Have at 'em."  His year is pretty much spoken for.  Can't blame him.

In Michigan you can either purchase a regular archery tag which is for either one doe or buck, or you can purchase a combination tag.  One tag is for any size buck or a doe and the other tag is for an antlered deer with at least four points on one side or a doe.  The combination tags can be used during the firearm season but with additional rules which are not important here.  I think I have that right.

I would like to see the One Buck Rule here in NY.  I think it is from pure greed that people feel the need to shoot several bucks a year.

I have hunted antler restriction area's and it cost me deer. I didnt mind as much because I saw other deer (does).  I think it would stink for a kid to be robbed at an opportunity so perhaps there could be exceptions.

I think Deer management is a good think however it falls heavily upon the state to do it right.  Hunters alone will not be able to do it right.  Too many people are greedy and many do not see the larger picture. I hear a lot of ignorant old sayings from hunters.  Sometimes people think that what happens in front of their tree stand is the status quo.  Also the Populatios vary widely across the state which would need further scrutiny.

I think the State needs to make as accurate censuses as possible. They need to properly record kills and enforce illegal activity.

I think it is great that they are using hunters to effectivly manage the herd but they should not stop there.

I beleive they need to work collabratively with Farmers and Forestry units to manage habitat.  Since Corn and Soy are so popular many farmers are plowing up CRP fields because at the end of the day Money Talks.  I hope they can find a way through tax breaks and what not to make it possible for a percetage of land to be managed for wildlife.

Unfortunately this all costs money (lots of it)but isn't that what our licenses are for?  I think the filtering of funds needs to be redirected so we can once again use the money designated for programs to fund the programs they were intended for.  

At least here in NY that's what aughtta happen  :readit:   and that's my .002 take it for what it's worth.

Here in Louisiana we can kill 6 deer per season 3 buck tags and 3 doe tags with no size restrictions on anything. We have lots of deer probably too many in places but our bucks are nothing to brag about. I wish we did have some kind of antler restriction to try and get some bigger bucks.

QuoteOriginally posted by KentuckyTJ:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
TJ,

I'm with you. I like the one buck only rule that we have here. It can be frustrating sometimes but I like the results it has brought to us in KY. Been deer hunting since the '70s and I have seen a dramatic increase in the number of deer I see compared to back then, especially bucks. I don't kill as many bucks as I did in the '80s and '90s because I pass on several compared to then and end up with maybe a doe or two and let my kids kill whatever is legal.

BTW, I saw your picture in the latest issue of our hunting guide, close to the front, posing with several does with some other dudes. Nice picture. That is you, isn't it?

Yeah Doug that is yours truly. I'll have to tell you the story behind that someday. [/b]

Do tell Thomas.....LMAO!

After reading these posts I'd like to make a couple more observations. The spread or point limits some states use to limit buck harvest certainly have merit and are better than nothing.  However, these kinds of restrictions can result in a bit of high-grading of your deer herd.  Imagine if you told a forester to only cut the straghtest and limbfree trees in your woods. If you have a bunch of genetically supeiror young, straight and limb-free trees these might get cut under this protocol.  If a young buck has great genetics (and nutrition) and grows antlers with 8 points and right to the ears (15 inch) this buck would be killed under every antler restriction regulation. So, in heavily hunted country with 6-point or 14-15" spread rules almost all such deer would be taken, even the great 1.5-2.5 year old deer. If the hunter can kill more than one buck they'll take even more of these super young bucks.

Another issue with antler restricitions are compliance. Some hunters may have difficulty determining if a deer is legal or not.  Yes, we can count to 6 in Kentucky (even with our shoes on). But sometimes the decision is it a point, can you see the rack, etc. can make it tough on some. Same goes for spread restrictions. That's why in KY where we have these WMA 15" rules we also say this is a rack with an outside spread even with the spread of the ears. This gives the hunter a bit of way to estimate it. Although, the hunter can get in trouble by not taking in consideration the buck's "attitude".  Imagine a deer in a relaxed condition looking right at you. The ear tips would be about 15" in our country. However, if that buck's posture was aggressive, the ears are laid back and narrowed in spread -- maybe only 10"'s wide!  I wouldn't want to try to explain that one to the Warden.

Having written all this, we have some 15" minimum spread Wildlife Areas in KY (copied after some county-wide restrictions in Georgia).  These spread rules work pretty well on these areas -- one produced 3 Booners in a single season.

Not all hunting regulations are decided purely for biological reasons. Perception, desires, and "politics" come into play sometimes. As long as the resource isn't negatively impacted, these are legimate factors to consider when making regulations.

I get but one A Tag for a buck, that can also be used for antlerless here in Montana that can be used in Archery Only Season, and try to use it wisely.  If OTC B Tags are offered, then I buy those as well, as I fill each one.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bowwild:


Not all hunting regulations are decided purely for biological reasons. Perception, desires, and "politics" come into play sometimes. As long as the resource isn't negatively impacted, these are legimate factors to consider when making regulations.

Roy...I couldn't agree more w/ all your posts on this subject.  I think you summed up my feelings perfectly and I know I could not have written it better.

The "polotics" side of some management decisions in KY have me baffled.  Not to change the subject, but what other than polotics would push our Commission into issuing Elk "spike" tags agains the opinions our Biologists other than a Political reason?  Our state is lucky to have some of the finest biologists in the Country and I'd love to see them backed by the Commision more often....But there have been fights in our past that were biologically sound that I stood on the other side of the "Polotics" of the issue..LOL  I guess it's where you stand at that time....3 years to a brand new Commission and a new day in KY I pray.

After hunting in ga for several years, I think they have the limit and antler restriction compromise (as RC described) pretty close to being right.  The part where they manage some properties collectively instead of individually has a lot of merit for further exploration and expansion.  Similarly, the Sambar hunt in Florida manages the resource rather than the hunter by setting  limit of game to be taken and potentially ending the hunt if the limit is reached.

Florida has a two deer a day limit   :scared:  with no way of regulating harvest state-wide.  More and more conversation is evolving to change that and I expect to see some type of management change in the next few years.  here is hoping that it will be informed and scientific.

wish they would do it here in NC......lots of deer, very few nice ones in my part of the state...if he makes it to three, he is ancient....

Wish NY would make a one buck limit. Instead we keep fighting over antler point restrictions while people are out killing two 1 1/2 bucks legally each year. If we had a one buck limit both sides win ! I just can't figure it out.

MN has a 1 buck limit for any weapon. Has for as long as I can remember. I don't see any bigger bucks becouse of this. They just came out with the 4 point apr for this fall in se Mn. They also eliminated party hunting for bucks so that should help. Now if they could just move the gun season out of the rut it would be dynomite!

Nebraska is a 2 buck state which I think the population can handle. However, I think it would be much better if our managers would do more to require the harvest of does.  We have many areas where there are liberal antleress only tags/seasons. But, still too many macho idiots that just "have to shoot a buck"...whether its mature or not.  I am personally for having an "earn a buck" system in our high popluation areas to require more does are shot. I guess overall, some areas of our state would benefit from a 1 buck harvest rule, but I am afraid some would not hunt and we need all of the hunters in the field we can in order to harvest an appropriate number of deer.